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Thank you, Dr. Dean. It will be Kerry or Edwards (sorry, Gen. Clark)

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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:19 PM
Original message
Thank you, Dr. Dean. It will be Kerry or Edwards (sorry, Gen. Clark)
Every patriot who wishes to rid ourselves of King George owes a debt of gratitude to Howard Dean, who stood up when the Dem leadership would not. And Gen. Clark has much backing, and will be an important voice (maybe VP candidate), but will not win the nomination. We are down to Kerry and Edwards, and one will win the nomination. I know how it is here at GD: 2004 Primary, and how I will be flamed. But, please remember all: GWB must be defeated this year, or our nation will be destroyed. There will be no "compassion" in a second Bush term (not that there was any in the first). I will work passionately for whoever the Dem nominee is, and encourage anyone who investigates the fix that will surely be in. We live in extremely dangerous times. Please keep that in mind as you advocate for your candidate, and don't lose sight of defeating GWB, at all costs.
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:20 PM
Response to Original message
1. Jumping the gun here
:eyes:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Just healthy enthusiam for two great candidates..
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 04:36 PM by wyldwolf
..who will finish overall second and third behind Clark.
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PROGRESSIVE1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
3. Here's a great candidate right here!
Edited on Wed Jan-21-04 04:27 PM by PROGRESSIVE1
Wes Clark!
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
4. we could have worse problems
than an abundance of qualified candidates
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9119495 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:29 PM
Response to Original message
5. What states would Kerry or Edwards pick up that Gore did not?
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Edwards: North Carolina... which makes us win.
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davidinalameda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. uh--don't think so
don't see Edwards carrying NC

he could possibly carry WV or Arkansas or possibly Louisiana but doubtful that he can carry NC

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carolinayellowdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. I regretfully agree
I find Edwards the most appealing of the lot, except that his IWR vote is a deal-breaker for me. (Will vote for him in the general but that's all.) However, North Carolina does not seem to have much favorite son feeling for him. In a News and Observer online poll (unscientific, of course) Liddy Dole was much more favorably regarded by Carolinians.
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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Kerry And Edwards Are Being Out Maneuvered
Interesting side note:

Donna Brazille is now talking up Edwards.
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maxr4clark Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
22. Brazille talking up Dean didn't seem to help him much
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Then you need to speak to some of your...
fellow supporters that are NBD.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. NBD? Worked for National Bank of Detroit. What do you mean?
Nobody But Dean? Nothing Beats Denver? Don't get it. Who are my fellow supporters? Do you think I have a chance in the primaries? Geez, please clarify. Honestly, no axe to grind here, except BEAT GEORGE BUSH. Guess now I know why I have stayed off this thread till now.
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. It means nobody but Dean all you have to do...
is look at the sig lines.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Gee, thanks. Lots of info there.
Can't say more without the moderators getting involved. You could be more expansive, let's put it that way.
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Democrats unite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Whats more to say?
eom
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Hoppin_Mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Wow - The fact he isn't considering Clark is too much to bear !
For the NBC's !

Edwards and Kerry would make good Democratic choices if your heart's no longer with Dean.

Both fine Democrats - you chose well.





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VolcanoJen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Remember when pundits said Iowa would be a Dean/Gephardt showdown?
Burying Clark right now, before a single primary vote has been cast, is terribly presumptuous, and more than a little unfounded.

As much as I admire Kerry and Edwards, I simply can't see Ohioans, for example, voting en masse for either of them. We won't win the general election without Ohio, not to mention Florida or any of the southern states.
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Castilleja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
11. So it is decided, after ONE caucus?
Sorry, but I really doubt it. I think I will continue to support the candidate of my choice till the primary election.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. Worked for McCarthy, 1968, first voted for McGovern, 1972.
Been around the block a few times, my friend. I am only saying, this is how I see it. Please support your candidate, but the nomination will go to Kerry or Edwards. This is a dispassionate prediction - and one I can live with.
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Zinnola Donating Member (121 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. You just keep polishing up that crystal ball
n/t
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maxr4clark Donating Member (639 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:21 PM
Response to Original message
20. More details about Clark?
I think Kerry and Edwards have their plusses as candidates, but I think Clark does too. As you say, Clark also has backing--money, volunteers, some good endorsements. So why do you dismiss General Clark's chances of getting the nomination?

To me it comes down to character, personality, domestic policy, and foreign policy. I rank these three candidates (and I don't accept that Dean is out of it yet, but going with your list) as follows:

Character: Clark, Kerry, Edwards. Edwards has two issues to overcome: having most of his past experience as a lawyer, which is still a bad word in lots of places, and running for President during his first Senate term. Kerry has to overcome his ties to special interests and his negative campaigning. Clark is the least handicapped; being a general is seen as good on character, but bad on political experience.

Personality: Edwards, Clark, Kerry. Edwards wins this one big. Clark looks and acts like a President. Kerry's face is stiff and perpetually sad; unfortunate, but true.

Domestic policy: Kerry, Edwards, Clark. Clark loses this on lack of experience, not his proposals which are much like Kerry's. Edwards is a far second to Kerry, though, with only one term in the Senate and especially since he doesn't look old enough to run--even though he's over fifty. I haven't been able to see past these things to get to his proposals, and I don't think most voters will either.

Foreign policy: Clark, Kerry, Edwards. Edwards has no experience on this one, and voted for the IWR. Kerry voted for the IWR, but is otherwise okay. This is Clark's expertise, and everyone knows it.

By my count, not counting backing Clark would have two first places, one second, and a third; Kerry would have one first, two seconds, and a third; and Edwards would have one first, one second, and two thirds. So all three candidates have their good points and their bad. I happen to think Clark has a slight edge on these four things, but hey, my nickname is maxr4clark, what do you expect?

Then there are money and backing. Clark has money (raised $14M in Q4, second only to Dean, and he is raising at a faster rate since New Years) and backing; Kerry has his own money and some special interest groups backing him; and Edwards doesn't really have much of either, except the momentum coming out of Iowa. Again, I see Clark having a slight lead.

Then there is how they would fare against Bush in the general election. Bush will not get to run the flag-waving campaign he would like to run against Clark, and will have to lie to attack Clark successfully. Lies can be effectively beaten with the truth, and with challenges against Bush's other lies while in office. Bush will not have to lie to attack Kerry, who is a Massachussets Democrat, has support from special interests, and a long history of voting to peck away at. Kerry is fine by me, but independent voters won't throw Bush out to replace him with Kerry, and honestly I think the Massachussets Supreme Court ruling makes gay marriage a big issue if Kerry is the Democratic nominee, which is not what we want to try to win this election on. Edwards, frankly, looks to me like a lamb before the slaughter facing Bush and Rove; his very fresh-faced innocence will work against him. Bush will get to paint him as an innocent, inexperienced, and yes, unpatriotic bleeding heart tax-and-spend liberal--whether any of it is true or not. A first-term Senator with no foreign policy experience just won't beat an incumbent in time of war.

So I see these three candidates all having strengths and weaknesses, and Clark having one really great positive for the general election and the fewest negatives overall.

So I ask you again: what is it that makes you dismiss Clark so readily?
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Padraig18 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
21. Premature obituary, lil' buckaroo!
We're here, and I have 20 million reasons that say we'll be here until the convention. Can your candidate's campaign spell 'bankrupt'? :)
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Adjoran Donating Member (650 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-21-04 05:37 PM
Response to Original message
23. Too early to write Dean off
He has the money, and more of a national organization than any other candidate.

Similarly, it was obviously too early to write off Kerry a month ago, when many had.

It may be a shortened primary season, but there are lots of contests to go - as well as many twists, turns, and surprises.
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