Calling Kerry supporters please

[eissa]

OK, I'm still standing by my candidate. However, I have genuine questions I would like answered from Kerry devotees. I'm not being mean -- in fact, these questions were asked by repuke co-workers (those who know me know I'm surrounded by them!) and I need some ammo just in case Kerry leads:

1. Since Kerry supported many of the policies of this administration -- IWR, Patriot Act, No Child Left Behind, etc., why would regular * supporters abandon him and vote democrat?

2. What does Kerry bring to the table? What's his agenda? As a Dean supporter, I used the fact that although Dean had inherited a deficit, he managed to balance the budget all the years he was governor of Vermont, while also providing health care to those under 18 and prescription drug plan to seniors. Believe it or not, this really had an impact. There something about true conservatives and balancing budgets that seems to be a turn on of some sort.

Basically with Dean, I have been able to argue that he has done it all through his experience as governor. Like Gephardt, I cannot make the same sell for Kerry. So far, I've just mentioned that he has a pretty clean record (not corruptible or tied to special interests like *). I did mention he was responsible for exposing Iran-Contra, but of course that didn't win them over! I've seen the website, but I don't wish to quote from it and it sounds scripted if I do. So tell me -- what distinguishes Kerry from the rest (and please, I appreciate the military service, but it means little to me as I hate war).

[NewYorkerfromMass]

1. Check out this very long Jake Tapper Salon article from Aug. 2001

You'll find a lot of answers there.

http://archive.salon.com/politics/feature/2001/08/10/kerry/print.html

[Feanorcurufinwe]

2. You say: " these questions were asked by repuke co-workers"

And I believe that, because they are based on GOP lies and disinformation. Kerry did not 'support many of the policies of the administration' -- at all. It is simply false to say that and I'm not surprised that this lie is not something that you originated, but rather something your "repuke co-workers" asked and that you are repeating.

[eissa]

4. Please, no tin hats here

I'm ABB -- I'd like to see my guy win, but I hate this administration so much I'll vote for a ham sandwich. And although I do not agree with some of Kerry's positions, I'll vote for him in a heartbeat. He voted for these resolutions, there's no question about that. I can argue, as he has, that he voted right but the implementation by the administration was wrong. It's weak, but it might work. But what about the second question?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

8. He cast votes.

Many votes. If you look at all of those votes, along with what he has said, the idea that he 'supported many of the policies of this administration' just does not hold up to the scrutiny.

As to the second question -- gee where do I start? If you want to tell you Republican friends and coworkers about John Kerry -- well there is just too much for me to type. Check out http://www.johnkerry.com/

If you have questions about a particular issue, please ask. But what I'd really suggest is that you stop wasting your time trying to convince these Bush supporters of anything. They sound like they are just playing games with you, to me.

[eissa]

10. I don't know

There are some, for sure, who would cut off a limb before voting democrat. But the ones I stumped, and there were only a couple of them, but still....it was a great feeling! Like pulling someone in from over the edge. I guess it was close to a religious experience, if that doesn't sound too corny, of "saving" someone. I really thought I made an impact. I think we've seen enough on this board regarding conservatives who are pissed at *'s spending like a drunken sailor. I really think some, maybe not a lot, but a few could make that leap. I want to be able to do the same thing I did with Dean with whoever our candidate turns out to be. If Clark wins NH, I will be harassing the Clarkies for the same info. And yes, I am checking out the website.

[GalleryGod]

3. My Brother-In-Law lives in Brattleboro (since '89) He's Supporting Clark

The "rosy Dean Scenario" of his Gubernatorial Reign is not what I've heard from Mike,my brother-in-law, a successful small businessman & Jr. High School Soccer coach .

I believe Mike, before a Dean position paper or stump speech.

End of Story, Morning Glory.:nopity:

[sandnsea]

5. They'd vote Democratic, but anyway

You don't have to be from one party or the other to do what's right. Patriot Act was right, we've seen what can happen to any good law when put in the wrong hands. NCLB was a Teddy Kennedy bill, again any good law can be used to lift up or to punish. IWR, another example where Bush abused his authority in the most disgusting, reckless way.

Actually, Kerry's agenda is passing all those bills Dean used to provide services in Vermont. A federal balanced budget and jobs, so Dean had something good to work with in the first place.

Middle class tax cuts that Democrats fought for. Child tax credit, marriage penalty and 10% bracket. He won't fix Bush's mistakes on the backs of hardworking Americans.

The ability to buy into the exact same plan Congress has, subsidized for low income people. Dean proposes to create a separate, similar plan, i.e. big new federal program. Kerry's health proposals are so far-reaching, it would take too long to list. There's help for prescription drugs, small business, insurance premiums people already pay, kids, unemployed, low income, everybody.

Knowledge and experience on foreign policy. He's written legislation on reducing weapons. He's written legislation to disrupt money laundering. He's normalized relations with Vietnam and assisted with Cambodia and the transition in the Philippines. He understands the need for military action, but believes when you do it, you do it to complete the mission. That's what generated his complaints about Tora Bora. He understands that the troops on the ground want to complete the mission, first and foremost.

Energy Independence. Great plan to truly get us moving forward creating the next generation of technology. Meaning WE will have it, it will be valuable, and it will create good paying jobs.

Call to Service - 2 years community service, 4 years college. High school civics classes with community service. Seniors community service with $2,000 annual stipends for grandkids college, etc. Connecting generations to create community again.

[eissa]

7. Ok, this is good

I like the health-care and energy plans. Still, the concern regarding the budget; again, I could argue with repukes that Dean did balance the budget as governor. I cannot overstate how this goes over with conservatives -- it really does shut them up. Obviously Kerry is for balancing budgets -- it's one of those "world peace" kind of issues -- but has never actually done it. Although * hasn't done it either, has he? Can you tell I'm thinking out loud here?!

Again, I'm not totally sold, but it's good to have these on hand when needed.

[sandnsea]

9. Congress balanced the budget

Might be important to remind them. He was against that Ag bill because it gave too much money to agri-business, said the Dept of Ag could be reduced by 75%, remember? He sees that jobs and education are inter-related and that combining those two departments could be cost effective and more productive. Seems like Kerry was also for Gramm-Rudman back in the 80's. There's other balancing the budget stuff, but around here he gets attacked for everything so I'll pass on posting it. He'd really have a strong case for every day Republicans if he can get that message out over the din of some liberals. Republicans are also very concerned about the environment, I know that's always what me and my Republican family members can actually agree about. He has alot to offer and the record to back it up.

[eissa]

11. "Dept of Ag could be reduced by 75%,"

Kerry said that?! How on earth did he win Iowa?! I'm surprised that didn't get much play (or at least, I didn't catch it.)

Combining jobs and education depts. is good -- reduces overhead and overlapping. As someone who works in education, I know it's something we work with the local career office and business community with all the time.

[sandnsea]

15. Because it goes to agri-business

Dean tried to smear Kerry with it. Farmers immediately understood that this man REALLY GETS IT. $250 billion in subsides, 250,000 farms lost. The money is going to the wrong places, he knows it and he's been trying to change it for years. They LOVED it.

[JI7]

21. this was very important in iowa

because the iowa sec of agriculture was a huge kerry supporter for this reason. and as someone else noted from iowa who attended a caucus and wrote up a report on it, the people there understood why kerry said that and that's why he got their support. this person said dean mistakenly assumed the farmers were one block of voters with similar interests when it was not the case at all.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

24. Yes, that attack backfired badly.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

13. I apologize if I was too harsh above

I may have had my nerves rubbed a little raw today.

On the budget issue, well Kerry's record is certainly one that would be an easier sell to a Democrat than a Republican, although he got decent marks from the Concord Coalition.

But Kerry has two good arrows in his quiver. One -- we Democrats balanced the budget and brought the country into a surplus. That is part of Kerry's record as it is every Democrat in Congress. Two -- George Bush is the worst budget buster of all time! He's handed the Democrats one of the Republicans signature issues, and thanks to the Clinton administration, we can run with it.

On a more general note, I don't know about your co-workers, maybe they are idealogues, but America in general votes for people, not policies. And John Kerry proved in Iowa that when people get to see him for real, and are not constantly reading articles in the paper that say he-is-a-loser -- people like him, people trust him, people vote for him. There were numerous articles about the Iowa campaign with accounts of Kerry winning Republicans over to follow him -- even with his liberal policies -- because he inspired them.

[eissa]

16. No worries

Yeah, our dems do owe Clinton for that; I hope that history will judge him by that and that this will be his real legacy.

I just want issues that will win some from the other side. Maybe where Dean has the budget, Kerry has the military? With an election that is predicted to be this close, and with some traitors (Zell, Koch) going over to their side, I want some of theirs to vote with us.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

17. Check out this article, where they talk about Kerry winning over Rs

He is no firebrand preacher, but more and more Senator John Kerry is seeing audiences that sound like revival meetings.
.
"Amen! Aaaaamen!" screamed Barry Cheeney, a 44-year-old father of two, when Kerry vowed in Davenport, Iowa, on Saturday never to make American "sons and daughters" fight overseas to defend America's dependence on Middle East oil.
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In Dover, New Hampshire, on Thursday, Kerry was riffing on health care and how he had been cured of cancer. "I had the best health care in the world," he said, setting up his promise to give everyone access to the same health plan that senators enjoy. "Why?"
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"Because God's got a plan for you!" yelled a woman in the crowd of 500, and the audience thundered its approval.
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The night before, Kerry was tripping over people on the floor of a packed Veterans of Foreign Wars post, and even Republicans were raising their hands and announcing conversions on the spot.
http://www.iht.com/articles/124980.html

I remember reading stuff like this in The Note awhile back, too.

I support Kerry because I decided from watching him years ago on CSPAN that he would be a great President -- I didn't know about the heroism or the antiwar protests -- I judged the man I saw. That's how Americans seem to pick Presidents, too.

[poskonig]

6. The military experience matters.

Those who do barely know Kerry know him as "that Vietnam guy." In my debates with conservatives, this alone (the soldier versus deserter thing) destroys them on national security.

On issues, Kerry's main points are health care access, tax fairness, a clean environment, and national security. Kerry is also more liberal than other Democrats on issues like gun control, taking PAC money, and the death penalty. I'd emphasize national security when talking with moderate voters, and the liberal issues when talking with the Democratic rank and file.

[sangha]

12. Good questions! Thanks for asking.

1) Because Kerry voted for IWR (most voters, including most DEM voters, want a candidate who voted for IWR), PATRIOT Act, NCLB, etc BUT didn't lie about war and WMD's, hasn't exploited terrorism for political purposes, can get the economy on the right track, protect the environment, and will not kowtow to the religious right.

2) That's too bug a question fr me to answer in a post, but as a summary, Kerry brings experience (in the military, intelligence, foriegn affairs, politics), a record of achievement, leadership and character. Check out Kerry's lifetime record (too long to detail here) and decide for yourself.

[eissa]

14. Please don't hurt me!

First let me plead for mercy....please, I don't want to be flamed!

But....this kind of reminds me of the Bush sr. I remember an argument with a rw friend where I said that bush1 was running on a resume, while Clinton offered real, hands-on experience. It's one thing to vote on something, it's another to have to work with legislators, as governors do, to get legislation passed and implemented right.

Again, I do appreciate the responses.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

18. Well

first off, anytime you have a legislator running, there is that argument -- that they don't have 'executive experience'. But I don't think the American people are gonna buy the idea that Kerry is inexperienced, or that he won't know how to work with Congress to get things implemented. Just look at the entrance poll data from Iowa and see how Kerry scored on 'experience'.

Second, that bush:clinton thing makes no sense at all since bush1 was president at the time, he obviously had hands on experience. I don't get it.

And to go off on another tangent, and at the risk of sounding cynical, I think we need to remember what some campaigns seem to have forgotten -- that running a successful campaign is essentially a case of marketing, with the candidate being the product. Whatever your packaging, you must have a product that appeals to a very broad range of people to run a successful campaign.

[eissa]

22. Darn it!

Replace Clinton with Dukakis. Sorry! That was the first presidential election I got to vote in, btw, and my rw friends and family were shocked, shocked I tell you, that I went over to "the dark side." All these years later, as an educated, married, working mother, and I'm still considered a "rebel." Ha!

[Feanorcurufinwe]

23. That makes no sense either - who was running against whom?

who is the candidate that you are saying only had a resume, and who is the candidate you are saying had hands on experience, in what election?

You've lost me.

[eissa]

25. 1988 election

It's been a while, and I think I may be showing some signs of early senility, but I recall that as governor of MA, Dukakis had a a decent record of accomplishments, whereas with Bush1 it was just climbing the Washington ladder and running on Reagan's popularity. I saw him as being completely out-of-touch with ordinary Americans. I've been partials to governors since (Clinton and now Dean) because I view their role as somewhat similar to the presidency in that they have to work with legislators across party lines to implement their agenda.

[sandnsea]

26. I'm sick of governors

As far as I'm concerned, this country has gone downhill ever since we started electing governors. I don't care if we never have another governor as President ever.

[mitchum]

31. Took the words right out of my mouth (except you didn't use foul language)

No more governors

[Feanorcurufinwe]

27. Well, Bush won that election.

So I don't understand how the results match the analysis.

[eissa]

28. And Clinton won in '92

Dukakis lost because of a bad campaign (Susan Estrich, ugh).

[Feanorcurufinwe]

30. Which is why I don't see how it relates to your original point.

[sangha]

29. I wouldn't flame you for asking siincere questions

The difference between Clinton/Bush vs. Kerry is that Kerry has a resume, a record, and hands-on experience. Though Kerry's reputation doesn't rest on his skill at drawing up legislation, he has been at the forefront of many fights to get significant pieces of legislation passed, like the Clean Water Act, Kyoto, etc.

[paulk]

19. my wife got two republicans she works with

interested in Kerry by mentioning the military decorations. I understand that it doesn't play for you, but that sort of thing can go a long way with with some people, especially conservatives. It gives instant credibility, even when they don't agree with the more liberal aspects of Kerry's record.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

20. You know when John F Kennedy was President

he was a Massachussetts liberal, and yes there were partisan Republicans bitter about the close election, but the country as a whole united behind JFK and his inspiring vision of how we could work together to make America a better place. I think Kerry can be that kind of President, and I think we'll see it more and more on the campaign trail, too.