Updated: DU'ers, Others Fall for Fox News Trap - MinuteMen

[Hard Attack]

_
The gang over at Fox News must be giddy over the uproar they are causing on Media Matters, Crooks and Liars, Democratic Underground, Rude Pundit, and I am sure many, many other websites that are visited by the Anti Bush, Anti Right Wing Fanatic Crowd.

This is how I look at this classic 'Hannity & Colmes' bait and trap play.

Alan Colmes is the Cheese.
Hannity is the Trap.

The Catch, 'The Rats'. (yes Democrats, those on the other side refer to you as 'Rats)

And boy did they catch a whole bunch of rats with the latest bait put into the trap by Alan Colmes.

Does anyone on this board think that Sean Hannity would be so stupid to blow his career by taking the side of 'White Supremacists'? -
I Don't.

But the Hannity and Colmes show played this one well. There is no evidence (as of now) of this James Gilchrist organizer of the MinuteMen Project being a White Supremacist.

Alan Colmes, is given a script and he follows it, and drops the 'White Supremacist' line into his latest interview. Blogs, Websites, including this one, Go crazy with ridiculous statements, with some going to the extremes of linking these MinuteMen volunteers to 'Timothy McViegh', or to the Scumbag Losers in Texas who dragged a black man to his death a few years ago. Based on what I ask, because they happen to be white?

Sean Hannity must be laughing, because the bait and trap play laid out by their show a few nights ago sucked in 'Crooks and Liars', for they linked to this pile of Bullshit by someone with the tag name 'Rude Pundit' - http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2005/04/armed-rednecks-at-border-when-group-of.html which in my opinion is a compile of Racist Views against White People.

Alan Colmes also sucked in 'Oliver', who went to the extreme of labeling these minutemen as 'Wingnuts' http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/2279#comment-20021 .
So, as I asked him on his blog, which he has failed to reply to as of yet, 'you consider these Guys as 'Wingnuts', based on what? If a person lived in a neighborhood that was being over run by crime and that person helped create say a 'Block Watch', after making contact with his or her local police precinct, would you label that person and the people who joined that block watch Wingnuts Also? - http://www.oliverwillis.com/node/2279#comment-20138

Then, take a look at some of the views that have been posted over at Media Matters on this story, which I truly believe did not warrant being their top story all day yesterday until about 6pm est - http://mediamatters.org/comments/latest/200504060003 where again you have some pretty crazy statements.

I can only say that many of these idiotic statements will be used against the Right Wing Opposition to Discredit the momentum that is being picked up as the Republican Party's Cheerleaders are all starting to realize they have been double crossed.

So what better way to divide the country again, as to have the Democrat Liberals Defend thousands of Illegal Aliens Crossing the border on a daily basis.

Last Election, the Democratic Party got sucked into being 'Pro Gay Marriage'. I can see it now for the next election 'DEMOCRATS WANT ILLEGAL ALIENS TO TAKE YOUR JOBS AWAY'

WAKE UP - THIS IS A TRAP!

Hey - all of you 'Democrats' - you all listen to Air America, right? Do you not hear what you are hearing or are you missing the news with views from Organized Union Labor on that Network?

Unions have suffered over the years from a variety of issues, including being low balled by outfits that hire non unionized workers, or contractors that have Illegal Aliens working for them.

Unions are all for a decent daily wage, with benefits. They also stand for good paying state jobs. This cannot happen, or be financed properly when you have an infrastructure of weak paying jobs, and that is the ultimate outcome of having thousands of Illegal Aliens willing to work for less than half the price that is needed to be paid to substantiate a decent standard of living.

I have some scenario's, that if followed, could solve this entire problem with Mexicans, South Americans coming in droves to the United States. I have a plan that could really shake up things in the Democratic Party, and if implemented, would bring prosperity to the entire North American Region. But it will take sacrifice, it would take courage, it would take a backbone, and I wonder how many of you out there would be willing to go along with it.

__ADDITION TO ORIGINAL POST BELOW___
****OK DU'ERS WHO WANT TO SEE THE PLAN - HERE IS THE SHORT VERSION..
GET CORPORATE AMERICA TO SET UP MIRROR FACTORIES IN MEXICO that they have now set up in China and DROP CHINA eventually and have the manufacturing of jobs for the Nations Retailers goods made in Mexico. This would create a tremendous amount of jobs, stable jobs for the Mexican economy.

The Trickle Down effect would be a boom for Mexico. This would stop the need for these people leaving their lives to come to the United States to be Exploited.

__END ADDITION TO ORIGINAL POST___

I am going on Vacation for a couple of weeks starting tomorrow. When I get back, I'll see who, if any post to this thread, and in time, I will lay out my idea's that would not just be good for the Country and the entire North American Region. - THIS IS NOW POSTED JUST ABOVE, EDITED, SHORT AND QUICK FOR THOSE WHO SUFFER FROM A.D.D.

To the rest of you out there who are just taking on this knee jerk reaction to damming these people who Alan Climes is attacking, wake up, Alan Climes is a Donkey on a Horse Ranch, and everyonce in a while, he is given the wagon to pull, to bait in the opposition and at the same time, double cross the efforts of the opposition of the Right Wing.

[colonel odis]

1. thank goodness we have humble patriots like you. please, share your plan

with us and lead us to the promised land.

[Atman]

7. LOL! Yeah, a bit heavy handed, eh?

He had me going, right up until his non-existent plan. Bush does that a lot, too. Now, I'm not saying other than this...-8 points for style.

I understand Hard's point. But, he isn't going to win many converts by calling us all dumbasses, then asking us to "just trust me."

Let's hear the plan.

ON EDIT: Okay, I lied. I didn't really understand his point. In fact, I gave up reading right about the time he climbed up onto the Super Sized Soap Box and started telling us all he had a grand.

But I was just trying to be nice. Liberal that I am.

[Hard Attack]

13. Where did I call anyone a Dumbass?

_

[Hard Attack]

16. Regarding the 'Plan'

_
GET CORPORATE AMERICA TO SET UP MIRROR FACTORIES IN MEXICO that they have now set up in China and DROP CHINA eventually and have the manufacturing of jobs for the Nations Retailers goods made in Mexico. This would create a tremendous amount of jobs, stable jobs for the Mexican economy.

The Trickle Down effect would be a boom for Mexico. This would stop the need for these people leaving their lives to come to the United States to be Exploited.

________

The above plan would involve a call for certain Democratic Leaders to pass the torch, step down, get the hell out of the picture, for many of them are responsible for this 'INVESTMENT IN A COMMIE NATION'.

Are you guys aware that our former Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin, the same guy who tried his best to keep Enron from being declared Junk Bond Status, is one of the key figures in setting up Corporate China?

That bothers me and I bet it may bother some of you.

Just for the Record, I follow the news all day long.

I am also part of the 'NEW CROWD' that the Democratic Party won as a Result of the Right Wing Fanatics taking over the Republican Party.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[izzybeans]

2. Getting sucked into being "pro-gay marriage"

and anti-xenophobia is not a trap even if that's what these handjacks think they are doing.

Don't give them so much credit. They are not all powerful and infallible manipulators.

Edited to add: It seems the public is getting fed up with the "white supremacist" crowd anyway.

So Suck away Sean Hannity. I've got your gay marriage and my immigration papers right here. They will shrivel up at some point on their own.

[rooboy]

3. I hope you didn't injure your fingers typing that stuff.

The bottom line is nobody wants mercenaries or vigilantes. And by the way, the Democratic position SHOULD be pro Gay Marriage.

If you think that Roger Ailes stays awake at night trying to figure out a way to trick a few bloggers, then think again. You're talking about one half of one quarter of one fifteenth of a percent of the American public who is even paying attention.

[meganmonkey]

4. Wow. Isn't that a fascinating rant. LOL

So logical, and not at all self-important. :eyes:

Geez. Can't wait to hear your plans. I won't be able to sleep at night until your return.

[Guaranteed]

5. This is a double-edged wedge issue.

I don't know why the Repukes are playing games with it.

It splits them, and it splits us.

[w4rma]

30. It doesn't split us. Unlike Repugs, Dems are not pro-*illegal* immigration

Dems would honestly like to stop these under the table employment schemes that illegals come here and end up working in. Rethugs *like* anything that helps to drive down wages for all employees.

[Demit]

6. Check out this form of "Block Watch" you are defending--

TUCSON, Ariz. (AP) - Three volunteers patrolling the border for illegal immigrants were being investigated after a man told authorities he was held against his will and forced to pose for a picture holding a T-shirt with a mocking slogan.

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=200504...


The town watch people in my neighborhood do not carry guns and do not hold people up to ridicule.

[Hard Attack]

17. Funny, I held a man against his will too once....

_
Yep, held him down to the ground until the cops showed up. He was breaking into my neighbors car.

Too bad my nieghbors who came out to assist me didn't have a camera, it would have been a good shot.

[Demit]

18. "Bryan Barton caught an illegal alien and all I got was this t-shirt"

Is what the shirt said.

Barton is one of the three volunteers. He told agents that they waved the man over to them, offered him food and water, and gave him the T-shirt and money before the Border Patrol arrived. "All they did was provide water and wait for the Border Patrol,'' Minuteman spokesman Grey Deacon said. "What's the big deal?''

Not exactly a manly man kind of thing to do, is it? Sick fuck kind of thing to do, IMO.

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

8. Bullshit. No one is defending illegal border crossing.

The 4th amendment states PERSONS not citizens. While Gilshrist is the mouthpiece, both Barton and Simcox have a history and it is white supremacist and violent against migrants.

We HAVE laws against hiring undocumented migrants and those are poorly enforced and hardly punitive. The meat packing industry is one of the biggest offenders of hiring undocumented workers, and when Wal Mart got caught red handed, they were fined 11 million dollars which is a PITTANCE compared to what they make in a day. Why don't we enforce the rule of supply and demand?

Furthermore, unions are suffering because of right to work laws, NOT UNDOCUMENTED WORKERS. The unions need only look as far as the unionization of farm workers in the 70's.

[smoogatz]

9. You're going on vacation? Now?

When there's so much work to be done, saving us all from having our lawns mowed and wall-to-wall shag vacuumed for $4 an hour?

[fob]

10. Two responses, if you're really on "our" side shouldn't your phrase;

The Catch, 'The Rats'. (yes Democrats, those on the other side refer to you as 'Rats) have "us" instead of "you"?

Second;

Does anyone on this board think that Sean Hannity would be so stupid to blow his career by taking the side of 'White Supremacists'?

YES, He is *THAT* STOOPID, and more. Furthermore, saying stuff that stupid won't "blow" his career, it has MADE his career!

[Ouabache]

11. you are correct about one thing

Alan Colmes is a punching bag. He knows it too. And he follows "the format" of the show which hands him his paycheck. He plays the role he is given in "the format". Reads his lines. Cashs his paycheck.

[x_y_no]

12. I'll grant you one thing ...

Alan Colmes is a lackey for Hannity, so one needs to examine anything he says carefully in that light.

[Career Prole]

14. The Rude One has a reply.

http://rudepundit.blogspot.com/2005/04/armed-rednecks-at-border-part-2.html

Enjoy your vacation.

[Mass]

15. Thanks for posting this

it is really great.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Career Prole]

29. Informative? Not especially. Entertaining? Absolutely.

The word you were struggling for is "drivel".

[RaleighNCDUer]

19. One point, in your myriad of illogical statements --

what makes you think that 'trickle down' would work any better in Mexico than is has worked here? They already have trickle-down. That is the foundation of their oligarchy. The workers who are fleeing the Mexican economy are coming here for that very reason. It is the republicans who are trying to duplicate the Mexican economy here that is the problem.

[democracyindanger]

20. I refuse to listen to the plans of anyone who watches Hannity

[Hard Attack]

21. Sorry: You Miss the Point Completely .

[JohnOneillsMemory]

23. Two tactics cogent here: Divide and Conquer, Controlling the Discussion

Ignoring the internal details of the 'Minute Man' media event, its existence highlights something I agree that DU-ers miss all the time:::

1) Dems merely respond to the flaps the Repubs set up. Control.
2) DU-ers miss the larger politicals strategy of setting groups against each other, the old 'divide and conquer.'

Read this US Army manual on guerrilla warfare. It was started in 1955 and updated in 1968, 1974, and this 1979 version was used against Nicaragua. It is being used on us:
http://www.tscm.com/CIA_PsyOps_Handbook.html

>snip<

4. Creation of Nuclei

This involves the mobilization of a specific number of agitators of the
guerrilla organization of the place. This group will inevitably attract an
equal number of curious persons who seek adventures and emotions, as well as
those unhappy with the system of government. The guerrillas will attract
sympathizers, discontented citizens as a consequence of the repression of the
system. Each guerrilla subunit will be assigned specific tasks and missions
that they should carry out.

Our cadres will be mobilized in the largest number possible, together with
persons who have been affected by the Communist dictatorship, whether their
possessions have been stolen from them, they have been incarcerated, or
tortured, or suffered from any other type of aggression against them. They
will be mobilized toward the areas where the hostile and criminal elements of
the FSLN, CDS and others live, with an effort for them to be armed with clubs,
iron rods, placards and if possible, small firearms, which they will carry
hidden.

If possible, professional criminals will be hired to carry out specific
selected "jobs."

[x_y_no]

24. The plan ...

****OK DU'ERS WHO WANT TO SEE THE PLAN - HERE IS THE SHORT VERSION..
GET CORPORATE AMERICA TO SET UP MIRROR FACTORIES IN MEXICO that they have now set up in China and DROP CHINA eventually and have the manufacturing of jobs for the Nations Retailers goods made in Mexico. This would create a tremendous amount of jobs, stable jobs for the Mexican economy.

The Trickle Down effect would be a boom for Mexico. This would stop the need for these people leaving their lives to come to the United States to be Exploited.

So what's the mechanism to "get corporate America" to do that? Tarriffs? Tax breaks?

I think any policy which attempts to force industry to do this would be a pretty blunt instrument, but I'm open to your ideas.

My alternative plan is to modify international free trade agreements to require gradual improvement in wages, working conditions and environmental regulations in our trading partners. Slap increasing tarriffs on them if they don't comply. I say gradual, because you don't want to crash their economies, but you do want them do eventually have a decent life where they already live so they're not so desperate to come here.

Get the other developed nations to do the same, and this would have some clout.

[paineinthearse]

25. Beware of smoke and mirrors

My DU pledge: For every post/comment I make about (topic du jour - you name it: Terri Schievo death watch, Jerry Falwell death watch, the pope death watch, minutemen, Jenna's butt dance, etc), I will make TWENTY FIVE posts/comments about:

The * agenda
The war for oil
Election reform
Social security "reform"
Tom Delay
Corporate greed
News manipulation
The budget & trade deficits
etc

Amen!

[Old and In the Way]

26. When selling something.......

it's never a good idea to insult the customers. You kind of lost me after your opening salvo. I'll bet you are really smart, though.

[Leilani]

28. Let me guess, you're real job is

political strategist.