Iowa: Who's Unelectable Now? - a great article by 12 year old Natasha

[genius]

This is a must read for the backers of Kerry, Edwards and Kucinich. She has great things to say about all three of these candidates. Her article brilliantly explains what happened in Iowa.

http://debateusa.com/featured/hull_richter.htm

Iowa: Who’s Unelectable Now?
By Natasha H. (age 12)

January 19th, 2004 was anything but a good day for Howard Dean. After being asked to leave a Martin Luther King celebration, Howard Dean placed the blame for the eviction squarely on the news media. What made this strange is that much of his success was owed to a news media that intentionally avoided covering other Democratic candidates who had led a more consistent opposition to Bush’s policies. After being twice placed on the covers of Newsweek and Time Magazine, after being the benefactor of ABC’s Ted Koppel’s attempt to turn a debate into the Howard Dean Show and after ABC and NBC pulled embedded reporters off coverage of other candidates who were more of a threat to George Bush, Howard Dean seemed to be turning on his closest allies, the media. As if the day couldn’t get any worse for Park Avenue Dean, whose popularity is largely based on his believed electability, the caucus goers of Iowa placed this media hit a distant third behind two of the candidates Dean had claimed were unelectable, John Kerry and John Edwards.

...

[progressivebydesign]

1. Nice.. but Dean was not asked to leave the MLK event.

He volunteered to leave, when he realized he was causing a scene with the media on his heels. Nice article otherwise.

[Constitution]

64. Natasha is a real asset to the Democratic Party

I bet it would be an improvement if she gave the keynote address at the next national convention.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

2. Natasha again?

Is she still not your daughter?

[genius]

52. Using your reasong, or whatever you call your leap of logic,

you must be Dean's father. Why else would you post anything he says?

[no name no slogan]

3. very good article

and it raises a very good point: if you're only reason for supporting a candidate is his "electability", what's left after he gets beat a couple of times?

I have yet to meet more than one or two truly fervent Dean supporters who are behind him because they agree with him most on the issues-- they are backing him because they think he's "electable", whatever that means these days.

It's this kind of mentality that nominated Michael Dukakis in 1988.

[mistertrickster]

6. Well, I met 3500 of them in Iowa. And not only that, Dukakkis was

a "pink tutu" Democrat (even though I sent money to his campaign)--Dean is the anti-Dukakkis.

Remember, "this campaign's not about ideology, it's about competence?" Bull$hit. It's ALWAYS about ideology.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

11. I still don't see it..

Where is Dean different on the issues than other corporatist centrist Dems? Besides his questionable anti-war stance which he never had to vote on.

NAFTA?
Military Spending?
Patriot Act?
Death Penalty?
Occupation of Iraq?
Profit for Health insurers?


TWL

[minkyboodle]

25. you cannot see

what isn't there.. The whole progressives for Dean thing perplexes me to this day.
Scott

[ThirdWheelLegend]

28. and every day..

Every day there are more and more posts calling for us to stand behind the true fighter Dean and fight against Bush-lite the tutu dems and the status quo!

Yet Dean's record and actual policies are the same as those we are to fight against.

I think it's a combination of his campaign and projection. People project their desires onto Dean, yet his stances do not reflect them back.

TWL

[no name no slogan]

35. Dean the "anti-Dukakis"?

Hmm...., let's see.....

* Governor of an electorally small New England state,
* "Fiscally Responsible" governor who took credit for booming state economy-- despite the fact that the national economy as a whole was ALSO doing well.
* Easily tagged with "Northeastern Liberal" label, despite the fact that he's not one.
* "Electable" for supposed appeal to suburban yuppies and soccer moms, but little appeal to racial minorities, blue-collar workers, or other parts of the Democratic base.

Am I talking about Dukakis or Dean? Can you tell the difference?

I organized two precincts for Dukakis in the 1988 caucuses. Both of my precincts had over 200 attendees-- a number that was unheard of at the time. I supported him from the fall of 1987 all the way through November 1988, because I thought he was a "different" kind of Democrat-- and that he was "electable".

Fool me once...

[Lisa0825]

9. Meet ME.

I first started to support Howard Dean when he was still the "asterisk" in the campaign. I read his position papers, one by one, and I AGREED with all of them. I was amazed to find a candidate I didn't have to justify supporting based on the sum total. there are many thousands out there like me, and millions who just don't know it yet.

Thanks for being such a positive and unifying force in the party (not).

[genius]

45. Exactly. And because we were afraid to nominate the best candidate

that year, the rest of America didn't want to trust the Democrats.

[Guaranteed]

4. LOL yeah. Here's a little poem I wrote:

I call it, "CNN Promoted Howard Dean"

"Howard Dean is unelectable."

"The party has some misgivings about Dean's electability..."

"Do you really think that Dean is electable?"

"Hmmmm...yes...but, is Dean electable?"

"I'm not sure about Dean's electability."

"Electability isn't Dean's strong suit."

"I think the last thing I'd call Dean is electable, Bob."

"You know, this campaign is about electability, and the voters just don't have confidence in Dean in that area."

"Dean's electability has long been a big question mark in voter's minds."

"The electability issue plagues Dean's campaign whereever he goes."

"Don't ask me why, but people don't have confidence in Dean's electability."

FIN

[mistertrickster]

5. Hmmm . . . Nice screed, Natasha

I don't believe much of it nor do I believe you're twelve. But thanks for the pile-on. Iowans really ARE so much smarter than the guy who built the biggest war chest and the largest organization from thin air.

What are you gonna do when Clark gets the nomination, smarty-pants?

[ThirdWheelLegend]

8. its real smarty pants..

:eyes:

[mistertrickster]

10. I googled all the crap in her bio--the only thing that came up was

The John Hopkins Center for Talented Youth--that apparently does exist. No hits other than the original site on the other stuff. Also "Natasha" + "John Hopkins Center etc." turns up only the original site.

That doesn't prove it's not true, it just tells us there isn't much reason to believe it.

[babzilla]

16. Natasha(age 12)'s latest cartoon

http://mhull.rupa.com/TomNGeo65.pdf

I always feel sorry for her brother Alexander(age 14), he gets left out of the spotlight.

[mistertrickster]

23. This is a pdf file. The bio makes it sound like it gets published

somewhere. I suppose those movies were "home videos."

And don't worry about the brother. I'm sure he'll get accepted into The Johns Hopkin's Program for Talented Middle-Aged Guys.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

31. Despite my most earnest efforts,

the PTM-AG at Johns Hopkins won't accept me. :(

[oasis]

54. "how about if the suicide pilots speak Venezuelan?" great cartoons. Thanks

[Constitution]

46. I've seen Natasha's performance group. It's really popular.

It's also really professional. If you don't arrive early, you probably won't get a seat.

Some peace group was selling her poetry books and her comic books when she spoke at the Long Beach peace rally almost a year ago. She had the best speech at the rally. She was wearing a walking walking shoe that day. She spoke about how her ankle injury was temporary but what would happen to the children of Iraq if war occurred would be permanent.

[Missy Vixen]

7. Interesting snippet

Natasha seems to be parroting an interesting number of right-wing opinions in the above paragraph -- "Park Avenue Dean"? "The Howard Dean Show"?

We know a 12-year-old who is also quite bright and whose parents encourage her to listen to RW radio. She'd use the same language.

Julie

[nini]

21. That's EXACTLY what I thought

the Park Avenue thing pushed a button with me.

I'm not buying this whole thing.

[babzilla]

12. debateusa.com is a hack rightwing wanna be a forum

why is a Kucinich supporter being published there?

check out the book of the week page from debateusa.com

http://debateusa.com/botw.htm


And why is it that Jamie Walker, the site administer not to mention the president and the publisher, seems to be the lone poster on the forums? I'll tell ya something about Jamie Walker. He is going places baby. I learned it from his sig line:

Future Political Leader - Jamie Walker
President & Publisher - DebateUSA.com

My favorite forum category has got to be eXtreme politics. Here is where you can find threads about such topics as:

Girl wants to start a Caucasion club at high school
Anger Junkie Dems - Splitting the rift in further?

http://debateusa.com/debate/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=76c9a6418c30722cb68a201d5bf559c1

p.s. Is Natasha ever going to turn 13?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. Recently reviewed book at that site:

http://debateusa.com/images/0060514558.01._PE30_PIdp-schmoo2,TopRight,7,-26_SCMZZZZZZZ_.jpg


http://debateusa.com/botw.htm



And from "Other Books and Publications We Recommend:"





http://debateusa.com/botw.htm

[Guaranteed]

20. Hey...that looks good! What's it about?

Freedom?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

22. Freedom and 12 year-olds.

And how much they love freedom.

Book-of-the-Month Club material. My reading group liked it so much that we just keep talking about that book and stopped reading everything else. I mean, what's the point?

[genius]

39. Excuse me. A lot of liberals, such as Mary Lyons write for it.

DebateUsa has articles from both liberals and conservatives and is a very neutral forum.

[babzilla]

49. you are excused

I would hardly call it a forum, neutral or otherwise.

The forum part consists of Jamie Walker (President, publisher, site admin of DebateUsa.com & future political leader) posting threads to which no one responds to.

Who the hell is Mary Lyons?

[genius]

53. She's one of the biggest anti-Bush Internet activists. Don't you read

anything besides DU? A great many famous people have been featured writers for that site. Gary Franklin (the reviewer, I don't know his politics) used to be one of their featured writers. They've also had other people from the entertainment industry write for the site.

[babzilla]

57. I read a lot of things besides DU

yet I have never come across Mary Lyons.

I also have google, which I used to search for this "biggest anti-bush internet activist" and the only returns were for some harlequin romance "author".

http://www.romantictimes.com/index.html?/data/authors/4414.html


I then returned to the featured opinion columnists page from DebateUSA.com

http://www.debateusa.com/

Hey, its Mary Lyon, not Lyons, and she has a new op-ed up on DebateUSA.com now. Her bio tells me:

About Mary Lyon: Mary is a retired news reporter/anchor, having left the Associated Press Radio Network in 1966, after a nine-year stint as the West Coast Entertainment Reporter. She was news director at a variety of Los Angeles-area stations, primarily radio, although she did work in/on television as well. She worked on the air in Los Angeles, or based in L.A. for various networks and national syndicates, for 25 years and has won a number of awards including documentary, news writing, newscasts, and feature reporting.

As an author, she has published the work, "The Frazzled Working Woman's Practical Guide to Motherhood." and provides the following comment regarding the work: "The book is a humorous self-help/how-to for women (and men, too) who stand on the verge of having to juggle jobs and parenthood, and everything I learned as I struggled with that two-headed monster, myself. Much of it concerned tips I either invented or picked up from various celebrities I encountered while reporting on show-biz, plus lessons I learned the hard way, having no reference points about infants or children in my life before (I'm one of those who never babysat - no kids in the neighborhood at all) and didn't have any younger siblings to practice on. The book has been in print since 1997. I did all the illustrations for it, as well. "

She has a website about all this - motherhood/working motherhood/crafting and more - www.frazz.com - which expands on all of the above and is updated monthly. I write a monthly update essay for the homepage mainly on crafting topics for busy, frazzled, harried moms, guardians, teachers, and others.





for a good laugh, and valuable tips on crafting visit www.frazz.com it is not exactly what I would consider "one of the biggest anti-bush sites on the internet.

:shrug:

[genius]

67. You ought to read Democrats.com and the Counter Coup websites

By the way, Mary Lyon is for your candidate you might not want to put her down.

Speaking of Democrats.com, it has also posted a lot of Nastha's writings.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

13. Interesting...

TWL

[ACPS65]

14. Sad.

What's "Natasha" going to do with that Dean trapper-keeper and toothpaste now?

[babzilla]

17. Natasha will always need a trapper-keeper

because she will always be 12.

[genius]

40. Only until she turns 13. The Democracy Cronicle published one of her

poems back when she was ten. Her brother has had stuff published in The Link Newspaper.

[SW FL Dem]

18. I have a 12 year old

This wasn't written by someone that age.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. You think?

[genius]

41. Is your 12-year-old taking college classes like Natasha is?

The girl's a genius. You should see her speak. She and her brother put on variety shows that are phenomenal.

[GreenPartyVoter]

74. Extensive mental abilities are great

but they can't make up entirely for a lack of life experience, which I think a lot of people might call into question.

I applaud Natasha's energy and enthusiasm, though, and look forward to hearing some great stuff from her in about 10 more years.

(And am adding a note that I am glad she likes Dennis. :^) )

[Maddy McCall]

24. I wish my freshman and sophomore college students could write that well

C'mon. No elementary-age kid wrote that paragraph. Uh uh.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

26. Jamie Walker kick

:kick:

[babzilla]

32. more on Jamie Walker

AKA president, publisher & site admin of DebateUsa.com

"This is me as I appear today, I think I have modeling career potential"

http://www.obesityhelp.com/morbidobesity/profile.phtml?N=Walker948911717

[minkyboodle]

27. I'm the Queen of Spain

if that article was written by a twelve year old.
Scott

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

30. Mi reina!

[candy331]

37. Natasha step out in to the light so we can see

what a 12 year old looks like now a days and bring the person with you that penned that article.

[genius]

42. I've seen her speak and perform. She's smarter than most adults.

Natasha was one of the J20LA organizers back three years ago. That would have been back when she would have been nine. She wrote and passed out a document at that time describing how to take back America. She and her brother also delivered eulogies for Democracy at a couple of protest rallies after the SC stopped the vote counting. Her speech and her brother's speech to the Democratic Party were the reason the OC Democratic Party unanimously passed a resolution to impeach the five injustices back in 2001.

Maybe you should ask her to tutor you so you will do as well. I'm planning to vote for her for President after she turns 35 - unless we lower the age requirement.

[wabeewoman]

29. Ah but that makes it interesting

don't you think?? "avoided covering other Democratic candidates who had led a more consistent opposition to Bush’s policies." More consistent opposition: hmmmm I must have missed that. Its why I turned to Dean-not one other democrat except Senator Byrd and occassionally Ted Kennedy were saying anything. My husband maintains the republicans are running scared about Dean. I think it could be that they are going to do a hatchet job on all of the dems. BTW if a 12 year old was smart enough to write that article she wouldn't be anti-Dean....

[ThirdWheelLegend]

33. "Its why I turned to Dean-not one other democrat..."

"Its why I turned to Dean-not one other democrat except Senator Byrd and occassionally Ted Kennedy were saying anything."

That's where you lost me.

There is this DEMOCRAT named Dennis Kucinich. He has been speaking out and taking ACTION for a lot longer than candidate Dean. He actually voted AGAINST the war and against the Patriot Act.

Let's look at what influenced people to DRAFT Kucinich to run.

February 2002(yes the year is 2002)

http://www.kucinich.us/speeches/speech1.htm

snip>>>
"How can we justify in effect canceling the First Amendment and the right of free speech, the right to peaceably assemble?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Fourth Amendment, probable cause, the prohibitions against unreasonable search and seizure?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Fifth Amendment, nullifying due process, and allowing for indefinite incarceration without a trial?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Sixth Amendment, the right to prompt and public trial?
How can we justify in effect canceling the Eighth Amendment which protects against cruel and unusual punishment?

We cannot justify widespread wiretaps and internet surveillance without judicial supervision, let alone with it. We cannot justify secret searches without a warrant. We cannot justify giving the Attorney General the ability to designate domestic terror groups. We cannot justify giving the FBI total access to any type of data which may exist in any system anywhere such as medical records and financial records.

We cannot justify giving the CIA the ability to target people in this country for intelligence surveillance. We cannot justify a government which takes from the people our right to privacy and then assumes for its own operations a right to total secrecy. The Attorney General recently covered up a statue of Lady Justice showing her bosom as if to underscore there is no danger of justice exposing herself at this time, before this administration."

snip>>>

"Because we did not authorize the invasion of Iraq.
We did not authorize the invasion of Iran.
We did not authorize the invasion of North Korea.
We did not authorize the bombing of civilians in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize permanent detainees in Guantanamo Bay.
We did not authorize the withdrawal from the Geneva Convention.
We did not authorize military tribunals suspending due process and habeas corpus.
We did not authorize assassination squads.
We did not authorize the resurrection of COINTELPRO.
We did not authorize the repeal of the Bill of Rights.
We did not authorize the revocation of the Constitution.
We did not authorize national identity cards.
We did not authorize the eye of Big Brother to peer from cameras throughout our cities.
We did not authorize an eye for an eye.
Nor did we ask that the blood of innocent people, who perished on September 11, be avenged with the blood of innocent villagers in Afghanistan.
We did not authorize the administration to wage war anytime, anywhere, anyhow it pleases.
We did not authorize war without end.
We did not authorize a permanent war economy."
snip>>>

*******************

Notice the line:
"Because we did not authorize the invasion of Iraq."

This is a over a year before the illegal invasion started. Kucinich is the true voice of the people.

Go Dennis.

TWL

[no name no slogan]

34. Dennis did the work, Dean took the credit

While the ex-Governor of Vermont was travelling around the country, telling everybody he represented the "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party", Dennis Kucinich was turning 19 anti-IWR votes into over 140 anti-IWR votes while working AGAINST the "leadership" of the House Democrats, to boot.

And now that we're neck-deep in the carnage of Iraq, what do the other Dems want to do? "Send more troops". "We can't leave now". "We need to enforce stability".

We now have lost more soldiers in Iraq than we did in the first four years of our involvement in Vietnam. And still, our "opposition" politicians offer NO REAL ALTERNATIVE to the NeoCon trap of continued U.S. control of Iraqi sovereignty.

Only Dennis Kucinich has a concrete plan to GET THE U.N IN AND GET THE U.S. OUT of Iraq. It would remove the U.S. as an occupying army, and instead give the job to U.N. peacekeepers. It would end U.S. control of Iraq's economy and give the Iraqis self-determination.

If invading Iraq was wrong, how can occupying Iraq as a conquering army be right? It makes absolutely no sense, unless you believe "Peace With Honor" is possible.

After all, that's how Nixon won in 1968.

[genius]

43. Right. It was Dennis who led the opposition to the war.

I liked Natasha's point about Dean's support for Biden-Lugar. She's right that was the course Bush followed so Bush did what Dean wanted and then Dean criticized him. Strange.

[charlie]

36. Yeah, no kidding

Whatever anyone might think of Kucinich, ignoring his steadfast and blistering opposition to the boy emperor is just willful blindness.

And wabeewoman, you might want to check out McDermott and Stark's public records for the past couple of years. Neither of those guys can open their mouths without taking a nasty whack at Bush.

[babzilla]

38. 'Heathen' Dean

here is another scintillating thread from debateusa.com

http://debateusa.com/debate/viewtopic.php?t=920&sid=40b76992e14b0b6bf98a2a026dd8980e

"While attending Albert Einstein College of Medicine in the Bronx, he met his wife, Judith Steinberg, who is Jewish. The two were married by a judge, and neither opted to convert, Dean said, because both felt strongly about their respective religions."
Mr. Dean, what kind of believer in Christ picks a wife that has no hope of salvation? Since you believe so strongly in your religion, what compelled you to share your life with someone who has not the new birth within her?


"The couple's two children ... were given their choice of religion. Both chose Judaism."
Mr. Dean, what kind of Christian consigns his offspring to life on this earth outside the fellowship of believers, and an afterlife in the pits of Hell? How do you propose to run your administration effectively when you cannot even establish that true worship of the living God will be the practice in your own household?


Hey genius, where'd ya go? Why is the Kucinich supporting Natasha(age 12)publishing her articles on the disgusting DebateUSA.com forum?

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

44. Ah-ewwww

[Constitution]

47. Why are the Dean supporters attacking twelve year old girl?

Admit it. She wrote a great article. You can't argue with the article and so you are resorting to attacking a kid. No wonder Dean lost Iowa.

[farmbo]

48. It takes a 12 year old to follow this goofy logic

She (if SHE actually wrote the piece) bases her entire article on Dean's alleged good relationship with the media...horse puckey!
This is the same media which gave us "DOUBTS ABOUT DEAN" (with an eerie looking face shot) two weeks out on the cover of Newsweak... then replayed 30 seconds of a 20 minute speech 643 times... to underscore the weekly RNC talking point: that Dean was "crazy".

Turn this girl into Children's Services... she's been emotionally abused by the RNC.

[Padme Amidala]

51. The Dean supporters don't seem to like kids.

That was not the main reason I left his campaign. I found out where he stood on the issues and that's why I switched to Kucinich. But it was very evident that the people working on his campaign did not like kids and this was really upsetting.

[NashVegas]

56. But Even More, We Don't Like Fraud

You're telling me there's a 12 year old who has the vocabulary and grammar skills to write this story, but is also stupid enough not to recognize the overwhelming negativity in the stories she's supposedly basing her article on?

You also expect me to believe there's a 12 year old this opinionated, pretentious, and self-aware?

[Name removed]

59. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babzilla]

58. Dean supporters love kids

especially when they are served with fava beans and a nice chianti.

Can you give some specific details regarding the evidence that the Dean campaign did not like kids? Fill me in on what upset you so much.

[MODemocrat]

61. Don't like kids eh?

As the Grandmother of 9 and great-grandmother of 2, I don't just like kids, I adore them. You should cut that kind of crap. Surely you can think of something more rational than that to put us Dean supporters down. :crazy: :thumbsdown:

[genius]

62. .From the above posts we can see how Dean supporters feel about kids

The above posts make it clear that Dean supporters seem to feel that children are stupid and incapable. With friends like the Dean supporters, kids don't need enemies.

[jsw_81]

50. A 12 year-old wrote that?

Wow! She's a genius.

[PaDUer]

65. She has a great positive

educated family..

[WarNoMore]

55. You know, when I read all the bashing

here on DU, the only thing that I really hope for is that the accusations are backed by fact. I really have no idea if Natasha is actually what she seems(or not) to be, but I *do* have the fall issue of Democracy Chronicle and there is a poem by Natasha on page 5. Take what you will from that.?

[HazMat]

60. Dean's popularity was never based on his electability

It was based on his supposed anti-war position. Period.

When people wanted to actually beat Bush (instead of simply screaming about him) they woke up and switched to candidates like Kerry.

[genius]

63. Natasha's right. Dean was pro-Biden-Lugar which means pro-war

It was only when he found out how unpopular the war was that he changed his story.

[ShaneGR]

66. IF, and it's a BIG IF, she's actually 12 and her bio stands up, BRILLIANCE

Like a Doogy Howser of politics. Although still very naive and quick to make pronouncements.She'll learn.

[Democat]

68. This kid is really bright and willing to stand up for what she believes

If you've heard her speak at political events, you will know she's the future of the Democratic Party.

I don't always agree with her positions, but she is incredibly smart for her age and she is not afraid of right wing idiots.

71. She's got a lot of courage. People should be praising kids who

are bright and courageous like Natasha. Some of the people here seem like they'd like to lock gifted kids in the basement and pretend they don't exist.

[genius]

72. She and her brother got some awards from the Democratic Party.

It was a couple of years ago. I hope they stay in politics.

[redqueen]

69. I really don't understand all the crap about kids

I was a very bright child and got called a liar and a plagiarizer many times.

Sick society we live in.

Too cynical. Much too cynical. :(

[Democat]

70. For those who don't think kids have anything worthwhile to say

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,62049,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_7

[rucky]

73. I may only be 11...

but I know a gimmick when I see one.