Kerry supporters...I am sorry.

[jeter]

I have been a strong long-time supporter of Howard Dean. As many people here know, for some months attacks have been leveled by both Dean and Kerry supporters at one another.

I was one who posted (frequently) questions and polls asking when people would think Kerry would drop out. I bought into the whole Dean is "inevitable" thing.

But since Iowa everything has changed. I remember first noticing Kerry picking up support in Iowa some weeks ago and remembered thinking that if he finished a strong second (behind Dean of course) he would get good momentum going into New Hampshire.

Then the guy did what I believed impossible only two weeks ago. He won the damn thing.

That changes everything.

Dean was considered the front runner because of the nature of compacted primaries. With all these front loaded primaries, and Dean polling ahead in Iowa and well ahead in New Hampshire - with Dean raising all this money and getting all these endorsements, it just seemed obvious that Dean was the one to beat.

He lost badly on Monday. That changes everything. Kerry is getting the bounce. Now he is the one getting the bump and the front loading benefits him. It hurts Dean.

I still think some people were unfair about their criticisms of Dean. On the electability question, I still say he would have done as well as anyone else. I never really understood the electablity issue though. I thought people were talking about Dean's positions. You know, the war. Erasing Bush's tax cut. His previous support for civil unions. I never saw it as a big deal.

But it wasn't that. It was his temperment. Dean comes across as kind of amateurish in this whole thing. His debate performances have ranged from mediocre to horrible. His positions are not well thought out. Given unrivaled media attention, he blew the opportunity to promote his ideas.

Consequence: Iowa.

If Dean loses New Hampshire, it is over. He may be able to spin a close second. But that's it. A distant second. Or third. Or possibly, gasp, fourth. Will finish his candidacy.

Kerry is this election's comeback kid. He stumbled in the beginning. You Kerry supporters have to admit this. I have always said that Kerry has the best policy issues of all the candidates. But he allowed himself to get swallowed up in the whole "Dean craze." Instead of promoting his background and record and pushing those excellent policies he instead followed the lead of Lieberman and Gephardt and attacked Dean all the time.

His campaign faltered because of that decision. Then he noticed himself doing well in Iowa (he was third just behind Gep) and he took a chance and campaigned hard there. He promoted his record and pushed his policies and his campaign surged. He won. Bravo. He did it the right way. The honorable way.

I hope Dean doesn't go on a full-scale attack now. It would destroy his candidacy just like it has Gephardts and Liebermans and almost Kerry's. But Dean has always been about missed opportunities.

Well cogradulation Kerrites. A job well done. I'll support your guy if he wins the nom. I'll support any Democrat. Beating Bush is the most important thing this year.

[George_Bonanza]

1. Wow, classy, but it's still wide open

If this race has taught me one thing, it's that 20 point leads in polls mean nothing until the votes are cast. The race is still concentrated in the north, and I expect the picture to fluctuate once we get into the south.

[LBJBestEver]

2. My thing is, in Iowa the polls had Kerry up 2-3 points. In NH it's 20

in some cases.


I smell a blowout. If Kerry wins both Iowa and NH, he will be hard to stop.

[Catch22Dem]

7. Don't be too sure

While I have no problem with Kerry's success (I like him a lot) he's polling horribly in the South right now...post Iowa, so there's a lot of work to be done for Kerry if he plans on winning ANYTHING after NH.

[LBJBestEver]

10. A decisive Kerry win in NH could dramatically change numbers elsewhere

Edwards and Clark could effectively 'split' the SC vote between them, and Kerry could slip in and win.

Plus he just got the endorsement of Fritz Hollings and is rumored to be getting Clyburn's endorsement.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

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[jeter]

6. Either way George...

Kerry gets his ticket punched.

There are always two candidates that move ahead from the first couple of primaries. I say it is almost certain that Kerry will be one of those two. Clark, Edwards and Dean are now vying for that second spot.

Edwards will probably survive until South Carolina. It doesn't matter how well he does in New Hampshire really. But if he polls well, a close third lets say, that may be enough to spin a victory as the primaries move to the south.

Clark has the advantage in the west.

Dean has only one shot now. To either win or come in a very close second in New Hampshire. Or else where can he stop the other two? Will he beat Edwards (or Clark) in the South? Will he beat Clark out west?

You see what i'm saying?

It all depends on what happens in New Hampshire. That's why these two primaries are so important.

[Woodstock]

14. Read up on past presidential primaries

also on Dean's numbers elsewhere.

[ACPS65]

3. Post of the day

.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

4. Thank you for the gracious post, but it ain't over yet.

And for the record, if there is a hatchet between us (I feel like I've been through so many battles here I can't remember), I hope this means we can consider it buried.

Bush has 362 days left in the White House!

[HuckleB]

5. Actually, it's not over.

Dean still polls very well elsewhere, and Kerry is just beginning to face the torrent of attacks that the frontrunner must face.

[cavebat2000]

8. pffft

hahahahhaha. IM sorry. beginning? right...



The media hasn't touched him.

[HuckleB]

11. If he keeps abdicating to Bush, as he did today.

The media won't have to touch him. It'll be over before it starts.

Pffft. Indeed.

[DJcairo]

12. You forget Kerry was hit hard until this Iowa win. very hard

You think he hasn't been hit by the media. They Gored him for months. Wrote him off completely.

[HuckleB]

18. Dream on.

The man got a free pass compared to Dean and company. The criticism is just beginning. You've no idea.

[Woodstock]

9. What happens to fair weather fans when it rains?

But it wasn't that. It was his temperment. Dean comes across as kind of amateurish in this whole thing. His debate performances have ranged from mediocre to horrible. His positions are not well thought out. Given unrivaled media attention, he blew the opportunity to promote his ideas.

Of course, I disagree completely. You're putting a very simplistic spin on the situation - and it was probably a simplistic spin that made you jump on his bandwagon in the first place. Look deeper.

The big question after reading your statement above is, why did you "strongly support" someone if you didn't think his positions were well thought out? He's had basically the same positions since the beginning, and has changed/refined some of them a bit, but no more than the other candidates have done. They've all flip flopped on an issue here and there. He's performed no worse than the others in the debates. His temperament was clearly professional enough to warrant some pretty impressive endorsements from seasoned politicians.

You were a fair weather supporter of Howard Dean. You went with the frontrunner. There's no shame in saying that. But there IS shame in falsely maligning someone on every level, just because the tides of his fortune took a turn for the worse. It could have happened to any of them - they ALL have their weaknesses. The Republican machine will fix their sights on the next frontrunner - if the frontrunner is someone they want to take out of the race - and what will you do when he falters? Move on to the next? If everyone did that, pretty soon, the race would be down to one man - the one that the Republicans want to run against.

I don't question that you want to stop supporting Dean - I question the manner in which you are withdrawing your support. Strongly.

[edzontar]

36. Not to mention the timing and the venue

Pretty hard to forgive, let alone believe.

[Shanty Oilish]

13. Dean should stay in the race regardless

Whatever happens in NH, I hope Dean stays in, and I'm a Kerry supporter.
Dean owes it to his loyal supporters, and his freefall in the polls is not entirely deserved. One gaffe---committed with the best motives---should not knock him out of the race.
It's hard for me to imagine him dealing effectively with the Bush machine, but I could vote proudly for Dean.

[Woodstock]

17. There are some really great people on this board

Dean's gaffe has brought out the best in so many people.

[Old and In the Way]

15. Excellent, excellent post jeter!

I was an early supporter of Kerry, but I donated to Dean, too. I think we owe a humongous debt of gratitude for leading the fight against Bush early on. He set the ante and every candidate that wanted to play (except Lieberman) had to meet it. I think that was/is important.

Things can change, the power of the media to influence our thinking is evident with the events of the past week-10 days. Frankly, I'd like to see the race remain contested right through to the convention. Keeping the media and Republicans guessing can only work to our advantage. It keeps the focus on our message and we have 4 candidates that can illuminate the skanky agenda of this misadministration.

Thanks for a classy post...the DU needed this tonight.

[Woodstock]

20. You might have needed it, but to say DU did is an overstatement

There are a lot of us Dean supporters left here.

[Old and In the Way]

28. Yes, I noticed that.

That's why I said it. If you've read any of my threads tonight, you'll see that I've been a supporter of Dean ($) and all the candidates in general.

I would challenge you to find any thread where I've antagonized any of our candidates.

[IndianaGreen]

16. Wes Clark is more of a war hero than Kerry, and he is less vulnerable

Here is a small sample of the issues regarding the medals that Kerry earned in Vietnam. Kerry will have to answer these questions because failure to defend himself will raise questions about his conduct in Vietnam, and his character.

While we may dismiss the sources of these allegations as rightwing, the fact remains that the allegations will have to be answered simply because there seems to be some basis to them, they are not pure fabrications.

For example, we know today that the Navy wanted to court martial John F. Kennedy for dereliction of duty in the sinking of PT 109, but that after intervention by Ambassador Joseph Kennedy, Jack was given a medal instead. These are two undisputed facts: Navy wanted to court martial Jack Kennedy, and Kennedy got a medal.

There are allegations that Kerry may have not been the "hero" that many people think he is:

John Kerry: The Chameleon Senator
By Ted Sampley
U.S. Veteran Dispatch
October-December 1996 Issue

Recently, Kerry became extremely defensive when David Warsh, an economics columnist for The Boston Globe, questioned the circumstances for which Kerry was awarded the Silver Star. Kerry, who was in a close re-election battle with Gov. William F. Weld, a Republican, quickly gathered his former crew from his Swift boat days to rebuff the "assault on his integrity."

According to the official citation accompanying the Silver Star for Kerry's actions on the waters of the Mekong Delta on February 28, 1969: "Kerry's craft received a B-40 rocket close aboard. Once again Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry ordered his units to charge the enemy positions. . . Patrol Craft Fast 94 then beached in the center of the enemy positions and an enemy soldier sprang up from his position not ten feet from Patrol Craft 94 and fled. Without hesitation Lieutenant (j.g.) Kerry leaped ashore, pursued the man behind a hootch and killed him, capturing a B-40 rocket launcher with a round in the chamber." In an article printed in the October 21st and 28th 1996 edition of The New Yorker, Kerry was asked about the man he had killed.

"It was either going to be him or it was going to be us. It was that simple. I don't know why it wasn't us--I mean, to this day. He had a rocket pointed right at our boat. He stood up out of the hole, and none of us saw him until he was standing in front of us, aiming a rocket right at us, and, for whatever reason, he didn't pull the trigger--he turned and ran. He was shocked to see our boat right in front of him. If he'd pulled the trigger, we'd all be dead . . . I just won't talk about all of it. I don't and I can't. The things that probably really turn me I've never told anybody. Nobody would understand," Kerry said. In the column, Warsh quoted the Swift boat's former gunner, Tom Belodeau, as saying the Viet Cong soldier who Kerry chased "behind a hootch" and "finished off" actually had already been wounded by the gunner.

Warsh wrote that such a "coup de grace" would have been considered a war crime. Belodeau stood beside Kerry and said he'd been misquoted. He conceded that he had fired at and wounded the Viet Cong, but denied Kerry had simply executed the wounded Viet Cong. Dan Carr, a former Marine from Massachusetts, who served 14 months as a rifleman sloshing around in the humid jungles of I Corps, South Vietnam, questioned whether or not Kerry deserved a Silver Star for chasing and killing a lone, wounded, retreating Viet Cong. "Kerry is certainly showing some sensitivity there. Most people I knew in Vietnam were just trying to pull their time there and get the hell out. There were some, though, who actually used Vietnam to get their tickets punched. You know, to build their resumes for future endeavors," Carr said.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/story10.htm

Vietnam Veterans Against John Kerry

On March 13, 1969, a mine detonated near Kerry's boat, slighting wounding Kerry in the right arm. He was awarded his third Purple Heart.

When later asked about the severity of the wounds, Kerry said that one of them cost him about two days of service, and that the other two did not interrupt his duty. "Walking wounded," as Kerry put it.
After his third Purple Heart Kerry requested to be sent home. Navy rules, he pointed out, allowed a thrice-wounded soldier to return to the United States immediately.

Commodore Charles F. Horne, an administrative official and commander of the coastal squadron in which Kerry served, filled out a document on March 17, 1969, that said Kerry had "been thrice wounded in action while on duty incountry Vietnam. Reassignment is requested ... as a personal aide in Boston, New York, or Wash., D.C. area."

Having engineered an early transfer out of the conflict because of his three Purple Hearts, John Kerry returned home to a sweet assignment as an admiral's aide in April 1969.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/jf_kerry.htm

[jfxgillis]

25. Blah blah blah

Some bunch of Vets pumped out similar shit about McCain, inspired in large part by the same rancor, a purported "betrayal" of Sylvester Stallone and Chuck Norris by leaving them behind in a decades-old Viet Cong P.O.W. camp on a movie set in the Phillipines by virtue of the Vietnam Re-establisment of Diplomatic Relations Act.

The "phony hero" charge was just TOTALY DESTROYED by Jim Rassman's re-appearance.

And the number of voters who will vote for Clark over Bush but Bush over Kerry because Clark is a "bigger hero" than Kerry must be infinitesimal. I'll take it in return for the other assets Kerry brings to the table.

[IndianaGreen]

26. Kerry is prowar and pro-PATRIOT Act

I dare say you just lost all of the voters that oppose the war on moral and ethical grounds.

Add to that Kerry's 100% anti-gun rights record, and you are already scrambling for votes elsewhere to make up for what you lost.

Kerry is unelectable!

[jfxgillis]

27. Okay. Now THAT'S a respectable issue to argue against Kerry

The Patriot Act passed with a single dissenter in the Senate (actually, my FIRST choice for Prez this time around, and if there's deadlocked convention we could do a lot worse than Russ Feingold). That's not an issue.

Anyone who would assist Bush's re-election by witholding a vote for Kerry on those grounds probably voted for Nader last time anyway, or possibly Libertarian.

The IWR will be a tougher issue for Kerry to navigate, but it by no means renders him unelectable, since most of country supported it. Kerry has to explain the Iraq War Resolution. Bush has to explain the War.

Big difference.

Gun control is much weaker issue this time than last time. Issues like that only cut when there aren't more important issues, of which at least two will bury the "wedge" issues: War and Job Creation.

[displacedtexan]

32. Ahem... that was after he volunteered for a 2nd TDY.

Volunteering for 2 TDYs in Vietnam... are you that brave? I'm not.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

19. Excellent post jeter. Very big of you.

I don't think Kerry really ever had a choice but to shoot for the moon in Iowa with Dean's incredibly high numbers in NH. He sort of had to do it there or face an almost impossible task in NH. It became his only real hope. And obviously firing people and shaking up the campaign back in November was a brilliant move.

Also, it helped that certain things went Kerry's way- Saddam was captured, and also that Dean just kept on saying the wrong thing, or what seemed wrong- whether it was about Iraq or bin Laden. For me- things like mistaking the book of Job as being New Testament (right after he says he reads the bible regularly) were getting just too much. And the "America won't always be the strongest military" statement had me cringing and grimacing at the prospect of him facing the GOP smear machine head on. Dean is right about so many things and forceful, but he is also too impulsive, and hence we have things like "scream-gate".

Meanwhile, Kerry has been a quiet force, and he has attracted a lot of late deciders because of the aura he projects as a wisened sage- battle tested and worn- with the record and face to go along with it. He is a brilliant thinker and statesman, and I think in the final analysis, a lot of voters simply feel very comfortable lining up behind him.

So...Thanks.

(Now, as a Red Sox fan, I think we just have to do something about your handle) :)

[jeter]

30. My screen name is not about Derek Jeter

I am a Red Sox fan as well.

I'm originally from MA - Lowell. And spent most of my summers in Hudson and/or Cape Cod. So my baseball team is the Red Sox.

This is the year.

[leftist_rebel1569]

21. Wow

Your incessant Kerry bashing in the past really really dampened what respect I might have ever had for you, but this is a great post. At least with me, all is forgiven (and I know, I'm not exactly a Kerry supporter anymore...but still, he's my #2 guy and this is really nice of you :))

[jeter]

31. you're right. I deserved that.

I was engaged in "incessant Kerry bashing." But no more.

I'm not jumping on the bandwagon or anything. I still support Dean, but I'm beginning to wise up to the fact that he won't win the nomination.

It's not Kerry's fault. It's Dean's.

I was just impressed with the way Kerry campaigned over the past few weeks. If he continues like that, then we'll do alright.

[jfxgillis]

22. I heartily agree with the consenus here

Awesome. Beautifully written; if I was a Deaniac instead of a Kerryon, I'd say "Wish I had written that."

Having said that, on the substance, there's something to be said for been tempered in the crucible before. A national campaign literally magnifies everything. An offhand comment, a thoughtless gesture, a reflexive reponse. An ad that goes just over the edge. Dampening those habits is part of becoming President (rightfully so, btw), but learning to do so sometimes takes a failed try first, especially for as potent a personality as Dr. Dean.

True likewise for Wesley Clark.

Dean does NOT have a temperment unsuited to the Oval Office; he'd make, he WILL make a great President someday, perhaps after eight years in the national spotlight in President Kerry's Administration, say.

[XanaDUer]

24. Thank you jeter for your kindness and graciousness

It is appreciated. I am very proud of Kerry's surge.

Thank you for your support, and together, we can kick the King Chimp outta the WH!

[FreeperSlayer]

29. ABB!

Bush out!

[IndianaGreen]

34. ABK!

Kerry is unelectable!

[blm]

33. Now, to steal from another: Let's go get those Bush bastards!

.

[edzontar]

35. Kerry's recent atacks on Clark have bot endeared him to me

And I am a Dean supporter---non fair weather variety---as you say you are or were or something.

[jeter]

39. I was a Dean supporter from the beginning

I've known of Dean for years - going back to his days as governor of Vermont. I supported him when the vast majority of people had no idea who he was.

I'm just pointing out some facts here.

I still support the guy. But realize that he won't win the nomination. I won't engage in Kerry bashing simply because he won.

I'm done with bashing period. It's time to look at the bigger picture and beat Bush.

[xultar]

37. WOW! nice Post! n/t

[UTUSN]

38. No Apology Needed

That decency that shines through your post is what being a Democrat, in the generic sense (as opposed to a one-candidate), is all about. But it's WAY not over, particularly the ultimate victory over Shrub. I want to see that jerk tossed out with ONE stolen term SO badly I can taste it.

[oasis]

40. We are all the better for battling it out. (n/t)

[jpgray]

41. Don't apologize! This is what the primaries are about!

:hi:

Fight for your candidate even when he's down--that's what kept Kerry alive, and it can do the same for Dean. I think both are excellent candidates.

[blm]

43. Some have forgotten the yearlong attacks on Kerry

here at the board and from the media. Because of the sudden turn due to Kerry's hard work, they now feel aggrieved, as if they were personally wronged.

You do have to just keep plugging away for what you truly believe.

[curse10]

42. Thanks jeter

this is a great post :-)

ABB all the way!