jpgpenn
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:21 PM
Original message |
Kerry, "calling *Bush a deserter is over the top" |
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Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 01:36 PM by jpgpenn
You know it's funny how this guy will help defend *Bush but will not think twice about smearing a fellow Dem like Clark, mined you after calling Clark a friend. Kerry's message is that of a slimeball!
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BeatleBoot
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:24 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 01:25 PM by BeatleBoot
Slimeball?
How about, "President of the United States of America" or just, "44" will do.
:7
on edit: capitalization
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cavebat2000
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #1 |
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lol.. better say is MESSAGE is slimball. Wouldn't want to get the thread locked.
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jpgpenn
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #8 |
FreeperSlayer
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:25 PM
Response to Original message |
2. HELLO! Being AWOL is not deserting. |
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Please, everyone, get the terms correct. AWOL and desertion are two entirely different things.
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sandnsea
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:28 PM
Original message |
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I was having this argument with my husband last night. I remember somebody explaining the difference at some point and of course I forgot. Could you run through it please?
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baby_bear
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:35 PM
Response to Original message |
15. There is a difference |
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The definition of a deserter: be absent without leave from the armed forces with no intention of returning. (according to http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/80/d0158000.html) Whereas absent without leave is: Absent from one's assigned military post or duties without official permissionaccording to http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entries/60/a0026000.html* did return for a couple of months before he went to business school. So I guess he was AWOL but not a deserter. Let's call it what it is, but it appears to me that calling him AWOL is a legitimate claim. s_m
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sandnsea
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #15 |
19. Calling him a deserter is not |
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But at this point in his campaign, there's no reason to go there. He's smart enough to realize it. And he's smart enough to try to get Democrats to wake up and use the correct terms when they make statements against Bush. That's half our problem, we don't know how to argue the case on the facts, not wild unsubstantiated accusations that make us sound like crazed lunatics.
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Valjean
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #19 |
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Republicans have a big up on us in this category. They always use concrete facts to attack Democrats.
NOT!!!!!
I would agree that a candidate making a desertion accusation on Bush is a trap. Bush has a whole in his service record. He was credited with training he DID NOT do and finished up. He received an honorable discharge.
Bill Clinton was often accused on dancing on the head of a pin. He did not invent the art. The true masters are Republicans. We got burned on the whole "Bush never used the word 'imminent' thing". We will get burned on this as well.
The question must be phrased in the way of a challenge. The candidates must CHALLENGE Bush to reveal his hidden service record and account for his missing time to assure the public that he is an honorable man. He must come up with a reasonable explanation why he could not take a physical at a time when the military just started drug testing.
In this way, Republicans can't DENY anything. Because no accusation was made. Only a challenge to show Bush's "presumed" integrity and service to his country.
We already know that the press tried to sabotage Clark by getting him to either denounce or support Michael Moore's interpretation. It was a trap and very wisely dodged by Clark. Given this and their previous conduct, I don't think we can rely on the national news media to fully explore this story. Only 60 minutes seems to have the balls (or scandal mongering) to go after topics like this (windiness their Skull & Bones piece).
BTW, only someone who SERVED in the military can do this. It's hypocritical for someone WHO didn't serve to make demands of someone who DID (albeit in a deficient manner). So it has to be Clark or Kerry. I think I've made my view known about Kerry. so go Clark!!!!!
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windansea
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
10. if you are AWOL over 30 days |
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you are considered a deserter...
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jpgpenn
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #2 |
23. but WHY would Kerry defend the AWOL * and ... |
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then attack a fellow Dem with such underbelly slime?
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Pepperbelly
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:57 PM
Original message |
It's merely a matter of how much ... |
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time and the intentions of the person who absents himself. Bonehead Bush was out for a year or better with no intention of fulfilling his service. Ordinarily it would be no skin off my nose but in this instance, Bush did indeed occupy a billet to elude the draft and possible SE Asian duty so he should have had the scruff to at least discharge THAT smaller committment.
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blm
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:26 PM
Response to Original message |
jpgpenn
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #3 |
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Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 01:30 PM by jpgpenn
I haven't seen 1 post showing Kerry defending Bush with this comment!:puke:
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Walt Starr
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:28 PM
Response to Original message |
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Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 01:29 PM by Walt Starr
I wouldn't vote for that corporatist on a bet.
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poskonig
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #5 |
9. Kerry is leading Bush 49%-46%. |
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Internet trash talking is meaningless. The good news is, SpaceShrub will be gone whether you like it or not.
:bounce:
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jpgpenn
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
12. "trashtalking" is that what you call his own words? |
Walt Starr
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #9 |
14. One corporatist is leading another corporatist 49% - 46% |
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The losers will be the American people as the Washingotn insider have their laughs at the expense of the people.
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poskonig
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #14 |
21. If you think Kerry's policies = Bush's policies |
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you probably shouldn't be voting. :evilgrin:
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windansea
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #21 |
22. seems like Kerry votes yes with Bush a lot |
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IWR Patriot Act NCLB
:evilgrin:
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poskonig
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:14 PM
Response to Reply #22 |
30. I'm happy with Kerry's record. |
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He filibustered ANWR, hasn't voted for four Republican presidents, and is within the Democratic mainstream. All Democrats sans Feingold voted for the Patriot Act, and many voted for the IWR (which *Clark* supported) as well.
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windansea
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #30 |
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but what's with the asteriks around Clark??
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NNN0LHI
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message |
6. So what do you really think of Kerry? n/t |
Fleshdancer
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:29 PM
Response to Original message |
7. why is pointing out the obvious on Bush such a bad thing? |
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Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 01:32 PM by GloriaSmith
The man was nowhere to be found for an ENTIRE YEAR! Why can't we say this? What the hell? We can talk about Clinton's penis for 8 years, we can call Clinton a draft dodger for *gasp* going to school, and we can't call Bush on his crap?
And I can't be angry? Dean yelling at a pep rally is bad but to mention that someone did not show up for active duty for an ENTIRE YEAR is "over the top"???? I'm so close to just giving up. I'm living in some sort of twilight zone.
on edit: I don't give a crap about the technical meaning of "deserter" in military jargon. I'm a civilian therefore a deserter is someone who DOESN'T FUCKING SHOW UP in my book. We can split words all damn day but we all know what Bush did.
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cavebat2000
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #7 |
11. I know its not looked well upon |
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But i sense a resurging of the term, "Bushlite"
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windansea
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message |
13. gosh..didn't everyone here bash Clark |
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for not handling the MM question right??
at least he defended MM's freedon of speech and acknowledged the AWOL charge had been bandied about
guess Clark has a bigger set than JK
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Walt Starr
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #13 |
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I sent a scathing email to Peter Jennings.
Kerry won't have my vote. I'll find a populist third party candidate if he gets the nomination because voting for one corporatist over another is no choice at all.
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WhoCountsTheVotes
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message |
18. More leadership from Kerry! |
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I mean, leadership in defending and covering for his frat-brother Bush.
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windansea
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Sat Jan-24-04 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #18 |
20. where are those Clark bashing debate threads |
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I wanna see who criticized or defended Clark response to MM question
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windansea
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #20 |
Valjean
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:04 PM
Response to Original message |
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Smearing a fellow Bonesman is apparently off limits. Can we really trust a Bonesman to attack another Bonesman on Bush's troubling deep personal hypocrisy and immorality?????
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Monte Carlo
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:09 PM
Response to Original message |
25. What are you talking about? |
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Are Kerry and Clark in a primary race for the Democratic nomination or not? They may respect each other, but that doesn't mean they're not going to take a few cheap shots at each other. It's really the way this game is played.
Prominently calling Bush a deserter is to invite a whole world of trouble, so it is not an action to be taken lightly. There is also a question of timing. So, what exactly is your point with this thread?
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in_cog_ni_to
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:10 PM
Response to Original message |
26. in_cog_ni_to, Kerry calling "Bush is a deserter" |
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Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 02:12 PM by in_cog_ni_to
"over the top"....is over the top! Kerry voted for the IWR and the Patriot Act. That is all I need to remember. For him to bash Clark shows NO character. None. Clark has been saying NOTHING but kind things about John Kerry and Kerry just turns around and slaps him in the face because he will say and do whatever it takes to win. Period. Kerry also thinks that taking on Saddam was "the right thing to do"...so what he says holds little merit with me.
Go Wes!
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PatrickS
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:13 PM
Response to Original message |
27. John Kerry = Joe Lieberman II |
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Sometimes I have a difficult time differentiating the two men.
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Monte Carlo
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
31. Then you aren't paying enough attention. |
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If that's what you think, then you might need to broaded your horizons a bit.
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
32. John Kerry is no Joe Lieberman |
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Agree with him or not, stands up for what he believes. He does not flip flop and change positions for political gain. Kerry is a liar, Joe is not. The only honest candidates are Joe, Howard, and Dennis.
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dansolo
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #32 |
40. I will agree with that |
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Joe is delusional, but he's honest. I still want him gone from the race as soon as possible.
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VirginiaIs4Lieberman
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Sat Jan-24-04 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #40 |
46. Dean is my 2nd choice |
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If Joe is out by February 10 when Virginia votes, my support goes to Dean.
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Walt Starr
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
33. They're both Corporatist Democrats, IMO |
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Both are sellouts, IMO.
Both vote in whatever way looks best for their political careers rather than what is best for the American people, IMO.
Little difference if you ask me.
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jpgpenn
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #27 |
35. they are joined at the hip! |
Edge
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:14 PM
Response to Original message |
29. How is stating the obvious truth about Shrub |
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over the top? My gawd, he should be bashing Bush, not defending him. :grr:
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overground1
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:18 PM
Response to Original message |
34. "fellow Dem like Clark"? |
Tierra_y_Libertad
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:35 PM
Response to Original message |
36. No surprise. That would be much "too liberal" and risky. |
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And, his DLC minders would be upset.
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dkf
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Sat Jan-24-04 02:41 PM
Response to Original message |
37. I was wondering why Drudge was going off on Kerry calling Bush a |
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deserter.
Must be because now he's flip flopped in order to attack Clark.
Pretty typical Kerry move.
Does the guy stand for anything?
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Walt Starr
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Sat Jan-24-04 03:08 PM
Response to Original message |
41. Move on, nothing to see here |
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Bush being a deserter is no big deal and saying anything about it is over the top.
Move on, no big deal that Bush stole the election.
Grrrrrr
:grr: :mad: :grr: :mad: :grr: :mad: :grr: :mad:
No Kerry, no how, no way!
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w4rma
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Sat Jan-24-04 03:14 PM
Response to Original message |
42. Clark better watch his back. Kerry seems to have his daggers out. (n/t) |
bicentennial_baby
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Sat Jan-24-04 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #42 |
quaker bill
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Sat Jan-24-04 03:53 PM
Response to Original message |
43. Like I have been saying, Kerry will keep the debate polite. |
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He will run a polite campaign, no shouting or anything that might seem "unPresidential". We will then vote. Then he will offer a polite concession speech.
Then things will go back to 'normal' and we will watch as Bush* runs the country into the ground and starts drafting our kids into military service.
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styersc
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Sat Jan-24-04 03:57 PM
Response to Original message |
45. Kerry should never sink himself to name calling and smears. |
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Thats up to others. He should soimply let his record be set against Bush's and let the voters choose the better man.
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edzontar
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Sat Jan-24-04 03:59 PM
Response to Original message |
47. I am ashamed of Kerry--again.... |
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Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 04:01 PM by edzontar
Bush was a deserter or AWOL at the very least, and it was CORRECT of Clark NOT to apologize for Moore's comments.
Kerry looks worse and worse every day.
It will be hard for me to pull the lever for him this fall--assuming he gets the nod--if he keeps slinging this sort of Repuke bullshit.
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newyawker99
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Sat Jan-24-04 04:07 PM
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2. Criticism of Democratic primary candidates, their policy positions, and their campaigns is permitted. However, extreme and inflammatory attacks against Democratic primary candidates are not permitted. The moderators have the sole authority to decide whether an attack is extreme and inflammatory. Inappropriate attacks include, but are not limited to, the following: Attacks involving swear words, long strings of negative words, comparisons to Hitler or Bush, unflattering graphics, etc.
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