Dean Alleges Dirty Attacks in Iowa

[Karmadillo]

http://abcnews.go.com/wire/Politics/ap20040124_915.html

DOVER, N.H. Jan. 24 — Howard Dean said Saturday he was surprised by the "under the table" campaigning he faced during the Iowa caucus and said the state needs to prevent such negative attacks if it wants to keep the nation's leadoff presidential vote.

Dean said his rivals "had their folks really beating up on the people who went in, trying to get them to change their minds in caucus."

"I think Iowa is going to have to change the way it conducts its caucuses if it wants to continue to be first," he told reporters in an interview on his campaign bus in New Hampshire.

Democratic National Committee rules prohibit any state from holding a nominating caucus before Iowa's caucus and New Hampshire's primary. Officials from other states have protested that the two state have such a disproportionate influence on the presidential election. But Iowa and New Hampshire are fiercely protective of their special status.

more...

[edzontar]

1. If true, this could help explain some of the unexpected results....

Nit just the Kerry-Edwards surge, but also the Gephardt collapse--since one has to presume that if dirty works were in fact employed, they must have come from that corner.

Note: I am just speculating.

[anti-NAFTA]

6. There must be something behind

the Kerry/Edwards surge and the Gephardt collapse. How did the two most bland candidates whose proposed policies are nothing to write home about manage to eviscerate both the frontrunner and the labor-friendly Gephardt from right next door in Missouri. It doesn't make sense. I relished in Dean's loss even though my candidate Gephardt also lost, but there's something behind this s---.

[hellhathnofury]

10. Welcome to DU!

:toast:

[KaraokeKarlton]

14. Based on your avatar, you should not take joy in Dean's Iowa results

There's a possibility that one of the other campaigns were trying to persuade voters NOT to vote for Dean simply because his wife is Jewish. It's something that has been mentioned about what was going on behind the scenes in Iowa. I have no idea how true that is, but I for one want to find out and if it's true, I want the campaign responsible to pay for it.

[Jerseycoa]

22. For real?

"persuade voters NOT to vote for Dean simply because his wife is Jewish"

If this is true, I am sickened to my core.

[KaraokeKarlton]

25. I've heard it a few times

But I don't believe anyone has been able to prove it yet. One thing is for certain, we need to find out if it's true or not, and if it is, the candidate responsible should be kicked out of the running. If true, it is definitely sickening.

[Jerseycoa]

74. I started remembering something and went looking

Chicago Tribune, 1/21/04

Fran Gehling, a real estate investor in Londonderry, said she received a phone call Friday night from a woman who identified herself as a supporter of Sen. John Kerry.

"She said, `Aren't you disturbed by Dean's hypocrisy by saying he's going to learn to talk about Jesus when he's in the South?"' said Gehling, a Dean supporter who is Jewish.

When Gehling asked the woman what she meant, the caller replied: "I think it's hypocritical for someone who's married to a Jewish woman and raising their children Jewish to talk about Christian values."

Gehling said the woman quickly ended the conversation after Gehling accused her of anti-Semitism.

Kerry spokesman Mark Kornblau said there was "no way" the call came from his campaign, and suggested that the Dean campaign made up the incident to hurt Kerry.

[KaraokeKarlton]

83. Whoever called that woman needs a good ass kicking, IMO

And why on earth would the Dean campaign make up something so offensive? That's not how Dean campaigns. He'll call the others onto the carpet for doing or saying things he disagrees strongly with, and he'll state his beliefs strongly...but he would NEVER allow anyone in his campaign to say that kind of stuff and then try to pin it on another candidate. Dean is too honest. In fact, sometimes he is TOO honest.

Thanks for the link.

[maddezmom]

41. wow that's a strong accusation

even if you are just floating it. I'd think the DNC would want to do an investigation.

[KaraokeKarlton]

84. They should, but I doubt they would

n/t

[maryallen]

68. Why would that matter?

Kerry's grandfather was Jewish.
Clark's father was Jewish.
Lieberman is Jewish.

Why single out Dean?

[Tinoire]

85. I hope that's not true! That would be despicable!

Dean's wife is just the type of First Lady I want! A woman with her very own REAL career to inspire millions of young girls. I hope this isn't true KK.

[KaraokeKarlton]

87. I hope it's not true as well

But if it is, anyone involved should be banned from ever holding office in the country again.

[Tinoire]

90. I agree.

For all my starry-eyed Leftist idealism, I am still a hard, cold cynic (that's how Will Pitt put it when we met). I accept dirty tricks to some degree but I will not accept this one. Judith Steinberg is a fine woman and her religion should have NOTHING to do with her husband's candidacy.

Sheesh. How low will some sink?

Anyone who wants the office that bad that they would resort to this is not someone I want in office!

[Andromeda]

93. Thank you, Tinoire.

I know you're not a Dean supporter but that's a standup thing to say about Judy.

[bearfartinthewoods]

55. if you think really seriously commited union support could be bullied

you are waaaay off the mark. gephs support was built on the idea that the union members would follow the union decision. that doesn't happene anymore....especially in primaries.

[bluestateguy]

2. For crying out loud

If he thinks the other Democrats were mean to him in Iowa he has no idea what Karl Rove's stormtroopers will have in store for him should he be the nominee.

[boxster]

4. I agree. Anything Democrats have done is going to pale in comparison to

the Rove machine.

If he wins the nomination, he better grow some thick skin immediately.

[bearfartinthewoods]

58. the real problem is he doesn't seem to understand the way caucuses have

always worked! they are designed to encourage switching. old political ties bound people to the candidate backed by their precent captains. but sometimes that candidate was non-viable and the captain'ssupport was 'payback' for some previous favor....think geph and the unions.

the first round count allowed the precint captains (union bosses)to present the votes he promised and save face. the voters he presented were willing to go along because they knew they would have a chance to switch to the candidate they really wanted in the second round.

it may be antiquated since precinct captains and union bosses don't have the power they used to have but it was hardly designed to screw dean.

[Nicholas_J]

17. How amusing

Dean, who frequently lied about other candidates in public, and had to apologize (to Edwards in San Francisco), lied about his past statements about Social Security in fron of millions at the South Carolina Debates, and then had to apologize for ever stating he would raise the retirement age, now cries foul for dirty tricks.

Plus in the hour before the Iowa Caucuses, the Iowa station carried on C-SPAN issued 4 warnings to all of the candidates stating what would hurt them in the caucus, and what they needed to avoid, and Dean was specifically told that his 3500 supporters sent in to shore up his campaign on the last day must not annooy or anger people who were going to the caucuses, or it would cost him votes.

Amusing.

[Namvet04]

43. Dean has asked a great question we all should think on

Rove would eat a political novice like Clark alive. Look how when real dem leaders came back to NH and put pressure on Clark how fast he fell in the polls. Everyone was so nice this week to each other after Iowa. If the pressure had really been on, clark would be in single digits now. He does get a lot of out state people to his rallies as a reporter reported on CNN today. Reporter could not find any NH voters. Do you think clark can still beat at least Joe in NH? Don't get mad, think, think about Iowa.

[cindyw]

3. Oh what a joke. We all saw two of the caucuses on c-span. The

only I saw was the Dean lady practically yelling at the Kucinich people to come with her to her caucus room. Dean needs to learn about being gracious even when he is not getting his way.

[KaraokeKarlton]

9. Actually, the young lady that was rude and offensive

was the Gephardt supporter. From what I saw, the Dean lady was very polite and didn't insult any of the candidates. The Gephardt lady was hateful, spiteful and downright rude and offensive. I wanted to slap her through the TV. :shrug:

[hellhathnofury]

13. I believe she ended up caucusing for Edwards!

:shrug:

[dsc]

16. were you watching CSPAN

or bizarro CSPAN. The lady was a Gephardt supporter. She was wearing a tshirt with his name in huge letters.

[cindyw]

56. No I saw her too. She was more desperate to get people than bullying

n/t

[bearfartinthewoods]

61. and telling the DK guy that she'd guarantee that he'd be a delegate to t

the county and that he could vote for DK there. i wonder how that turned out? bless cspan for letting us all see the pressure that dean woman put on the DK people.

[displacedtexan]

5. Al Gore should have prepared Dean

for the Iowa caucus.

[sandnsea]

32. Or Carter or Bradley or Trippi

They all kept it a secret, no doubt. :eyes:

[Melodybe]

7. Considering that the local news ran the "Dean tapes"

every single day with out putting them into context. Which is that Americans don't have a choice to vote for who is best they have to settle for the people that can afford advertizing by either using their own money or money from special interests. He is right by the way. The local stations even went as far as to ask iowans if they were offended by Deans insults about the caucuses. Dean never mentioned Iowans in particular but that is not what the Iowans heard.

So yeah, I think that Dean was dealt with pretty unfairly.

Taking into consideration that the national media edited out the screaming crowd, in the Iowa concession, therefore making Dean sound like he was screaming all by himself, yes there are plenty of dirty tricks a foot. I actually think that he should sue the media, but of course they will only say he is crying sour grapes and turn it against him.

[vi5]

20. "...the people who can afford advertising"??????

Doesn't Dean have more money than any other candidate?!?!?

[Melodybe]

27. hello the tapes were from 1998!

he wasn't even considering running then. the average campaign contribution for Dean is $77, so even though he does have the most money it was not his own and it did not come from special interests. Your point is moot.

[Nicholas_J]

26. Dean was speaking about the Iowa Caucuses

It is not unfair to let Iowans know what a particular candidate has to say about their chosen method of political selection.


It is far more unfair to try to cover it up.

[janx]

35. He was speaking about the caucus system in general.

Yes, it is the system that Iowa employs, and it will be the system that some other states employ in the primary.

[bearfartinthewoods]

64. NOW THE REASON FOR FAILURE IS NO MONEY FOR ADS???FOR DEAN??

bwaahahahaha

[hellhathnofury]

8. There is the Edwards book and...

the tape of Kerry attack calls and reports of push polling.

It's true. Don't you feel good about our party now? Rovian tactics, shameful.

[KaraokeKarlton]

11. I even heard that phone calls attacked Judy Dean

and was promoting the idea that Dean wasn't electable because his wife wouldn't be a good first lady because she's Jewish. If that really went down, then whoever was behind it needs a good ass kicking. Totally unacceptable.

[edzontar]

18. There were those ads atatcking Dean's patriotism---linked to Gep

Supporters.

I think there may well have been a pattern there.

Since Clark seems to be the target for this stuff now,, in NH, I am surprised that his professed supporters would not take this sort of stuff seriosuly.

You should stand up and defend any Dem candidate from smears and dirty tricks, as I have been defending Clark this week, even though i support Dean.

[bicentennial_baby]

19. Where have you been today? :- )

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=180875&mesg_id=180875

[Nicholas_J]

23. Or

Deans having had to apologize to Edwards after San Francisco for lyng about Edwards Stance there, (Dean admintted immediately after the Debate that hje knew it was not true).

Stated that Bob Graham was to old to be president.

Lied at South Carolina about his past statements about Social Security.

Perhaps Iowans simply wanted a cnadidate who was a little less truth impaired.

[hellhathnofury]

60. ROFL

"Perhaps Iowans simply wanted a candidate who was a little less truth impaired."

:tinfoilhat:

Dean apologized, will Kerry apologize for his shenanigans, I doubt.

"Stated that Bob Graham was to old to be president."

It's probably true, especially considering that he had health issues too. Even Graham supporters on here admitted that age was a factor.

"Lied at South Carolina about his past statements about Social Security."

Linky?

[bearfartinthewoods]

65. no offense but your nick doesn't match your sentiments

[hellhathnofury]

75. What can I say, Dean gave me hope.

I've had this SN for about 5 years, I switched my AIM and if I could I'd change it on DU.

[Adjoran]

12. I'm shocked - shocked!

to hear that politics can get dirty! Who would ever have thought it?

The problem only started with the dirty campaign between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson in 1796, which got much worse in their 1800 rematch. Before those dirty politicians, we had clean campaigns: Washington ran unopposed, and everybody was cheering politely.

Gee, if only these Democrats would stop their dirty politics, we could look forward to a reeeeeally clean campaign with Rove & Company this fall!

</sarcasm>

[hellhathnofury]

15. So now it's not only okay to vote with them, but campaign like them too?

We should be the moral party,those who take the high ground should be lauded those who take the low route should be condemned.

[bearfartinthewoods]

66. were you hear during the lat six months?

did you see anything the least but off kilter from the dean or clark camps, here at DU?

[hellhathnofury]

76. I've heard whiffs of Clark playing dirty but nothing concrete.

DU does not equal the campaign.

[maddezmom]

21. dirty politics stink

but not sure how these comments will go over with the general public.

[VolcanoJen]

24. Dean has nobody to blame but himself for his Iowa collapse.

These are the big-leagues, and Dean and his staff should have been better prepared to handle a caucus than they were. If you read through most independent accounts of caucuses across Iowa, you'll find one resounding theme: The Dean precinct captains and staffers were clueless as to their in-caucus responsibility. It would seem as if they weren't properly briefed, and didn't really understand how to win over the uncommitted voters.

Precinct captains for Kerry and Edwards performed their duty perfectly. I think this has more to do with Dean's soft organization than with "dirty tricks." If you're going to compete in Iowa, you have to understand the essence of caucus-going.

I am very disappointed in Dean's inability to accept responsibility for his shocking defeat in Iowa.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

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[VolcanoJen]

30. I'd still vote for Dean before Kerry.

If that helps at all. :-)

[Name removed]

79. Deleted message

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[ScreamingMeemie]

86. FWIW, I get accused more of bias against the candidate I support

than any other candidate in this race. Although I doubt this will change anyone's mind, I just had to put it out there.

Thanks,Laura

[Tinoire]

92. I don't even know who you support

I know it's not my candidate but more than that I can not remember.

You are entitled to your opinion and I would hate the day when moderators would have to pretend they're a-sexual, a-candidate.

Who do you support anyway? Dean? Clark? I have no idea who most of the mods support.

On edit: None of my damned business. Don't bother answering, please. It's not that important and frankly, I prefer not knowing. You don't scream it in our face. None of the mods here do. Not the pro-Dean mods, not the pro-Clark mods. My ony question is, who is the pro-Kucinich mod?!

[Tinoire]

81. Lol. If VJ was a biased mod - I would have been tossed off this board

long ago ;)

I think all our opinions about other candidates are biased.

I am shocked. Absolutely shocked to see we've all ignored Edwards! And his sneaky supporters made not one sound, not one peep, as they worked on their Iowa surprise.

What's the deal with that?

AP, you guys have some 'splaining to do!

[janx]

33. There is a difference between not knowing

the protocol of caucus well and settling for rank dishonesty in the process.

Both of those matters were in play when it came to Iowa.

[AP]

29. Uhm, "beating up on the people"? Thanks Mr Rolled-up-sleeves

and baseball bat.

I'm not saying that getting ready for a fight is bad. But this is the guy who wanted to turn this whole thing into a street fight, and now he's characterizing good campaigning (people ready with an argument for their candidate when it mattered) as getting beat up?

He reminds me of that little punk in A Christmas Story -- the one who pushes all the other kids around, but runs home crying when someone finally stands up to him. Not the tall one (who actually reminds me of Gephardt). I'm talking about the short one.

[tryanhas]

31. I thought this was funny

[janx]

34. It IS funny! And I'm glad you found it so!

YEEEAAAGHHH! It makes me have to go listen to some more remixes!

[dorktv]

37. The speech was to energize all those people and I know

it worked because I JUST watched the speech, I was not there. I probably would have collasped from hyperness.

[janx]

45. I'm listening to a remix now: RELOADED

"WE...WILL...NOT...GIVE...UP! YEEEAAAGHH!"


I almost die laughing every time I hear it, and I'm 46 years old!!

[beaconess]

73. The speech was more than just to energize his base

As the other candidates seemed to realize - and most politicians generally understand - Dean was playing to two audiences: the one in the room and the one on the other side of all of the cameras in the back of the room. And as most good politicians usually understand, if you have to choose which audience to play to, always go for the one outside of the room. The people in the room are already on board. But this was the first time that many, many people outside of the hardcore Democratic base who had been watching the debates saw any of these candidates and were sizing them up carefully.

Kerry and Edwards got it and gave forward-thinking speeches about what they believed in and where they were going and what they would do as president. Dean, on the other hand, blew his moment in the sun by spending it pumping up his troops and talking about how he was going to go from state to state kicking ass in the upcoming primaries. He played to the wrong crowd and is still paying for it.

[dorktv]

36. hahahahahaha

[diamondsoul]

46. ROTFL Ok, then!

Had to save that one for posterity! If Howard Dean doesn't laugh at that one he really doesn't have a sense of humor. LOL

[janx]

52. DS--listen to this! It takes a little time to download, but it's

worth it!

http://annatopia.com/pics/dean/iowa/caucus/remixed/reloaded.mp3

[diamondsoul]

70. That's fantastic!

Thanks for the link, I love it! I knew you guys could do something to swing this around.:toast:

[janx]

82. That's one of the best remixes, from the ones I've heard.

Some young and creative Dean supporters made them. There was one guy who made something like two dozen of them.

I thought you might like it. :hi:

[shance]

38. Interestingly, this issue is not about Dean, it is about those who

attempt to manipulate and distort the system in place.

What would be interesting would be to get confidential feedback from some of the Iowa caucus members, or have them fill out a confidential survey asking them their experience on the caucus and if they indeed were harassed or bullied. Of course, if you did a survey, it would be important to have an independent group of Iowa citizens who review the information.

It may reveal that the outcome was more manipulated than authentic. There seems to be a fair amount of scrutiny being directed at various caucuses, namely Iowa for its significance in being the first caucus held.

Overall, this could be a good opportunity to find the weak spots in our election process and look at ways to prevent harassment and/or intimidation that may be occuring.

[Renew Deal]

39. Somebody needs to get Dean a box of tissues

because he is a crybaby.

[sandnsea]

40. And pampers

Some of us non-campaign connected Kerry supporters really wanted to send him a box. We probably should have. Good grief, like they didn't know how the Iowa caucuse work.

[AP]

44. Penny wise and pound foolish. He should have spend some of

his millions getting advice from people who could have told him how to win the caucuses.

[ModerateMiddle]

51. between this

and his crying to McAuliffe to stop the other candidates from picking on him, Dean is going to earn the title in whining.

[emulatorloo]

42. The only shouting down of others at my caucus came from Dean supporters

There were two undecideds, and there was an opportunity for a supporter from each of the viables to give a speech. Dean supporters tried to interrupt and shout down the speaker for Kerry. While other supporters applauded the Dean speech, the Dean supporters did not applaud the speeches of the other groups.

So this feels pretty ironic to me.

[shance]

47. Well, being that you support another candidate,

this is not an objective opinion, is it?

[emulatorloo]

49. It is not an opinion it is what happened at my caucus

and only Dean Supporters are objective?

I will support Gov Dean if he gets the nomination. . .i just didn't caucus for him.

On edit: spelling in head and added Dean Plug and objectivity question

[diamondsoul]

50. Hang on now! Either the caucus goers

opinions are relevant or they aren't and you don't get to decide ALL the Dean supporters reports are objective but anyone else is not.

[shance]

62. No, what I said is its legitimate, but it is most decidedly not objective

Even If I was talking to a Dean caucus member or any other candidates caucus members, I could not consider their opinions objective because their views would be colored by their support for their candidate.

Capiche?

Its relative and goes across the board for all candidates.

[diamondsoul]

71. Ok, but then

where is Dean's information coming from, and shouldn't he maintain a similar standard if he really suspects something improper happened?

[shance]

48. Sadly, some of you confirm the accusation, by reacting the way you do.

here at DU.

[Southsideirish]

53. I saw Kerry-ite shouting at Dean people at caucus in Dubuque.

While watching C-Span, I definitely saw a Kerry person screeching at two seated Dean people in what looked like a living room or an anteroom. He was standing in the doorway hollering some stuff about Dean's record in Vermont and when the Dean person tried to express his point of view (the highly touted "give and take" of the supposedly democratic caucuses) the big Kerry guy started hollering twice as loud and took a step toward the Dean guy. Very scary and should have been stopped by security guards which were obviously needed with this rough crowd.
I was ringing doorbells for Dean and two Kerry people opened the door and were very nasty - the only two who were unpleasant of the hundred + doors I approached. One kicked his dog out of the way and the other roughly pushed my literature back in my face - this was totally uncalled for as I was very polite and apologetic that I "disturbed" him.

[janx]

54. The Kerry supporter KICKED HIS DOG?!

C'mon...

[Southsideirish]

78. Why is that so hard to believe? Dog was barking and he kicked him.

out of the way. Case closed.

[sandnsea]

69. I have C-Span too, puhleeese

He was a gregarious guy. He most certainly was not intimidating or yelling at anybody. The Edwards supporter was working the room and shaking hands and going after those voters in her own way. That's the way the caucuses work. Everybody knows it.

[Southsideirish]

77. Different guy - not gregarious at all - shouting and angry.

Very intimidating and confrontational. He was standing in a doorway - Dean people seated on a sofa around a coffee table.

[Cocoa]

57. "dirty tricks" is ABC News's wording

Dean is criticizing the Iowa process, and some tactics of his opponents, but I think ABC is trying to stir something up. Something tells me that that headline is ABC's, not the AP's.

ABC played one of the dirtiest tricks in the whole campaign, with its wife beating trooper story, implying Dean was somehow at fault.

ABC also dissed Kucinich earlier, and on Thursday they pulled the stupid medals story on Kerry, and the stupid Michael Moore thing on Clark.

ABC stinks, that's about it.

[Indiana Democrat]

59. Oh NO!!!

"Dean said his rivals "had their folks really beating up on the people who went in, trying to get them to change their minds in caucus.""


NOT "Trying to get them to change their minds"!!!


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

[oasis]

63. Dean is bashing the Iowa caucus system. Deja Vous.

[PVnRT]

67. The entire primary process is a joke in this country

By the time it comes to my state, Indiana, it's already over. That goes for a lot of states - essentially, we have a vast minority of people in the party choosing the candidates for everyone else, and that's not right.

[randr]

72. Whining is a sure sign of weakness

Dean better get over it or else he is down the road. Iowa is nothing compared to what lies ahead for the leading candidate.

[beaconess]

80. A number of people who were at the caucuses have told me

they felt that many of the Dean people they encountered were rude and condescending to voters and other campaign staff and volunteers and seemed to much prefer interacting with and shoring up one another than reaching out to voters. The problem wasn't that the were too enthusiastic, but that many of them behaved like spoiled brats on a weekend road trip who had no clue how to attract and influence voters or build up the kind of grassroots network so important to delivering votes for a candidate.

The result was that the vast majority of votes that Dean got were from his hardcore fans while the other candidates - particularly Edwards and Kerry - also attracted votes from other candidates who didn't meet the viability threshold. Kerry and Edwards, on the other hand, were most voters' second choice, which paid off when other candidates weren't viable. Voters were so turned off from Dean that he was hardly anyone's second choice.

Admittedly, this is anecdotal, but I heard this from enough people to believe it had some merit. And, frankly, given the behavior of some Dean supporters in this forum, I have no reason to doubt their experiences.

[ModerateMiddle]

88. I read somewhere

(sorry, I am reading so much about this primary that I really don't remember where I read it, so no link)

that the video of Dean telling the heckler to "Sit down. You've had your say, and now I'm going to have mine" was played repeatedly in Iowa - and it happened in the week before the caucuses.

I'm *sure* that didn't go over well in Iowa.

[oasis]

89. A New Hampshire voter once said, "presidential is as presidential does."

[Name removed]

91. Deleted message

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