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Did Bush lie or did he not ?

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:05 AM
Original message
Did Bush lie or did he not ?
to get us into a war? Where people continue to die every day. That is what the DSM is about. We say it is proof that he lied. The right says it is "old news" and it proves nothing. It cannot be "old news" since it was only exposed in the British press last month? They are afraid of the truth. They are afraid of the truth! Their president lied to them and people are dying.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, as did Cheney ("we know he has them, we know where they are")
and Powell (the UN presentation).
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. the nature of the lie...
was this:

"we're absolutely sure of the imminent threat. We have the irrefutable intelligence, but we can't show it to you or risk the human intel's safety. Otherwise, we would. You'll have to trust us"

after no WMDs found:

"the intelligence community is to blame. They didn't have any human intel to back up their claims".

There are other lies, but to me, this is the lie: that the intelligence was ironclad and they couldn't share it with us. We had to trust them. They were undeserving of that trust.
EVEN IF they were merely mistaken on intelligence, they told us there was no mistake. In that they lied certainly, without need of further proof, because their subsequent attempts to pin it on the intel community prove that lie.

Of course, I don't think they were "mistaken" at all, I think the whole thing was a lie, but what I've mentioned is the absolutely provable lie. the other part is harder to prove.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. There were so many lies.....
Edited on Sat Jun-04-05 08:36 AM by dennis4868
and Congressman Waxman had an entire website devoted to all the lies to get us into the war.

Another lie was Bush and his thugs telling us and congress that Saddam had unmanned aerial vehicles that could carry WMD to the united states. While he was saying this the NIE, Dept. of Energy and the intelligence branch of the Air Force all said this was untrue!
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. right, but I meant that was the most provable because it compared their
own statements against each other -- the easiest to prove lie.

even if credible, using another's refutation could still be spun as being mistaken or confused.

but yes, the better question is when did they NOT lie.
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dennis4868 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. using another's refutation could still be spun as being mistaken..."
But Bush was going around the country saying the intelligence said one thing (unmanned aerial vehicles that could carry WMD to the USA) and the NIE, DOE, UAF (i.e., the intelligence community) was saying something completely different....so of course this was a lie and there is no way to spin it!
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:58 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. doesn't prevent them from doing so!
they can and have spun such things to the koolaid crowd.

and it has been swallowed.

look, I'm not defending it, just saying it opens it up for that tactic, valid or not.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. Did the Bear shit in the forest, or did he not?
Inquiring minds want to know.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
14. Well...

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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:14 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Thank you for sharing
This settles the ages-old bear shit question, and also the Bush shit question. I will forward your stupendous Positive Photo Proof to all major corporate media outlets, concealed in a plain brown wrapper.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. And you thought you couldn't change the world.
I forsee a statue in the town square.

:shrug:
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
5. Just about everything this administration does or says is a lie.
Everything is staged. Everything is planned to have a certain outcome. Everything said is a lie. Both elections were lies. The agenda is a lie since it is said to be for and about the people when the beneficiaries are the corporate donors.

The town hall events are lies. The reasons for the war are lies. The social security fixes are lies. The tax cuts are lies. You cannot name one thing this administration says or does that isn't a lie.

The problem is that the media supports the lies and half or more than have believe them.
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Missy M Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. Of course he lied....
Edited on Sat Jun-04-05 08:25 AM by Missy M
..how can any intelligent person make an argument that he didn't lie. Everyone knows he lied but will not come out and admit it, including Bush himself.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
10. Everyone lies. Everyone. What Bush** did which is unforgiveable...
...is BETRAY THE TRUST OF THE AMERICAN PEOPLE.

NGU.


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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 09:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. Admitting you were gullible and manipulated is never easy
Admitting you were a loudmouthed fool to everybody around you who knew better is even harder.

Trust me, this is adding to the cognitive dissonance. Right now, they no longer believe in the junta, but they still want to believe in themselves and their ability to discern the truth.

They're clinging to flotsam. Keep throwing them anchors.
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justgamma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. I want to ask him
if this was such a failure of intelligence then how come you gave the head of intelligence the Presidential Medal of Freedom award.

"The Presidential Medal of Freedom is our nation's highest civil award given to men and women of exceptional merit, integrity and achievement."

What is it Shrub? You can't have it both ways. Either he and his minions did a lousy job or they did a great job. WHICH IS IT???
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Rainscents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 01:44 PM
Response to Original message
13. This is stupied question... Of course he lied!
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dchill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Yes, of course he lied.
But it's not a stupid question. It's kindling.

You know, like, to start a fire.
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quaoar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. No, he didn't lie
He disassembled.
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earthboundmisfit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. Hah!!! You beat me to it!
Cheers, baby! :toast:
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indie_voter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:22 PM
Response to Original message
17. The problem is (mho) everybody is complicit
Edited on Sat Jun-04-05 08:22 PM by indie_voter
The media, the democrats (elected leaders) and the republicans.

Many of us KNEW he was lying but were shouted down by jingoistic loons.

It was mass hysteria post 9/11.

It will be a painful journey for this country to get to the point where the public can admit we have a corrupt power structure.

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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. The DSM proves intent, or "mens rea" on Bush's part. Premeditated lying.
Here's just one lie.

"After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions, inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 08:40 PM
Response to Original message
22. The list of lies that someone posted a day or so ago...
The DSM proves this was all a pack of deliberate lies;

Blair: March 2, 2003

"If military action proves necessary, it will be to uphold the authority of the UN and to ensure Saddam is disarmed of his weapons of mass destruction, not to overthrow him. It is why, detestable as I find his regime, he could stay in power if he disarms peacefully."

http://www.sundayherald.com/print31827

LIE. See the DSMs.

And he WAS disarmed, bLiar; had been since 1991.

Bush: March 5, 2003

"We are doing everything we can to avoid war in Iraq. But if Saddam Hussein does not disarm peacefully, he will be disarmed by force,"

http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Mar/03092003/nation_w/nation...

LIE. See the DSMs.

And he WAS disarmed, bush; had been since 1991. Which the world would have known without a single soul dying if YOU hadn't kicked out the weapons inspectors, bush. Yeah bush, you sure were "doing everything you can"...except allowing the weapons inspectors the 90 days they needed to finish their work.

Our troops' lives & limbs weren't worth 90 days.

Saddam can stay if he disarms, Powell says
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/10/21/1034561443683...

LIE. See the DSMs.

Rice and Powell Say that a Disarmed Saddam Could Stay in Power
http://www.intelmessages.org/Messages/National_Security...

LIE. See the DSMs.

"How the United States should react if Iraq acquired WMD. The first line of defense...should be a clear and classical statement of deterrence--if they do acquire WMD, their weapons will be unusable because any attempt to use them will bring national obliteration."

- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor
January/February 2000 issue of Foreign Affairs
2/1/2000

"We are greatly concerned about any possible linkup between terrorists and regimes that have or seek weapons of mass destruction...In the case of Saddam Hussein, we've got a dictator who is clearly pursuing and already possesses some of these weapons. A regime that hates America and everything we stand for must never be permitted to threaten America with weapons of mass destruction."

- Dick Cheney, Vice President
Detroit, Fund-Raiser
6/20/2002

"Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction."

- Dick Cheney, Vice President
Speech to VFW National Convention
8/26/2002

"There is already a mountain of evidence that Saddam Hussein is gathering weapons for the purpose of using them. And adding additional information is like adding a foot to Mount Everest."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Response to Question From Press
9/6/2002

"We don't want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud."

- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor
CNN Late Edition
9/8/2002

"Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons."

- George W. Bush, President
Speech to UN General Assembly
9/12/2002

"Iraq has stockpiled biological and chemical weapons, and is rebuilding the facilities used to make more of those weapons. We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons -- the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have."

- George W. Bush, President
Radio Address
10/5/2002

"The Iraqi regime...possesses and produces chemical and biological weapons. It is seeking nuclear weapons. We know that the regime has produced thousands of tons of chemical agents, including mustard gas, sarin nerve gas, VX nerve gas."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

"And surveillance photos reveal that the regime is rebuilding facilities that it had used to produce chemical and biological weapons."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

"After eleven years during which we have tried containment, sanctions, inspections, even selected military action, the end result is that Saddam Hussein still has chemical and biological weapons and is increasing his capabilities to make more. And he is moving ever closer to developing a nuclear weapon."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

"We've also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas."

- George W. Bush, President
Cincinnati, Ohio Speech
10/7/2002

"Iraq, despite UN sanctions, maintains an aggressive program to rebuild the infrastructure for its nuclear, chemical, biological, and missile programs. In each instance, Iraq's procurement agents are actively working to obtain both weapons-specific and dual-use materials and technologies critical to their rebuilding and expansion efforts, using front companies and whatever illicit means are at hand."

- John Bolton, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control
Speech to the Hudson Institute
11/1/2002

"We estimate that once Iraq acquires fissile material -- whether from a foreign source or by securing the materials to build an indigenous fissile material capability -- it could fabricate a nuclear weapon within one year. It has rebuilt its civilian chemical infrastructure and renewed production of chemical warfare agents, probably including mustard, sarin, and VX. It actively maintains all key aspects of its offensive BW program."

- John Bolton, Undersecretary of State for Arms Control
Speech to the Hudson Institute
11/1/2002

"Iraq could decide on any given day to provide biological or chemical weapons to a terrorist group or to individual terrorists...The war on terror will not be won until Iraq is completely and verifiably deprived of weapons of mass destruction."

- Dick Cheney, Vice President
Denver, Address To Air National Guard
12/1/2002

"If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
12/2/2002

"The president of the United States and the secretary of defense would not assert as plainly and bluntly as they have that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction if it was not true, and if they did not have a solid basis for saying it."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Response to Question From Press
12/4/2002

"We know for a fact that there are weapons there."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
1/9/2003

"I am absolutely convinced, based on the information that's been given to me, that the weapon of mass destruction which can kill more people than an atomic bomb -- that is, biological weapons -- is in the hands of the leadership of Iraq."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
MSNBC Interview
1/10/2003

"What is unique about Iraq compared to, I would argue, any other country in the world, in this juncture, is the exhaustion of diplomacy thus far, and, No. 2, this intersection of weapons of mass destruction."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
NewsHour Interview
1/22/2003

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. Our intelligence sources tell us that he has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes suitable for nuclear weapons production."

- George W. Bush, President
State of the Union Address
1/28/2003

"Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent."

- George W. Bush, President
State of the Union Address
1/28/2003

"We know that Saddam Hussein is determined to keep his weapons of mass destruction, is determined to make more."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Remarks to UN Security Council
2/5/2003

"There can be no doubt that Saddam Hussein has biological weapons and the capability to rapidly produce more, many more. And he has the ability to dispense these lethal poisons and diseases in ways that can cause massive death and destruction. If biological weapons seem too terrible to contemplate, chemical weapons are equally chilling."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Addresses the U.N. Security Council
2/5/2003

"In Iraq, a dictator is building and hiding weapons that could enable him to dominate the Middle East and intimidate the civilized world -- and we will not allow it."

- George W. Bush, President
Speech to the American Enterprise Institute
2/26/2003

"If Iraq had disarmed itself, gotten rid of its weapons of mass destruction over the past 12 years, or over the last several months since (UN Resolution) 1441 was enacted, we would not be facing the crisis that we now have before us...But the suggestion that we are doing this because we want to go to every country in the Middle East and rearrange all of its pieces is not correct."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Interview with Radio France International
2/28/2003

"I am not eager to send young Americans into harm's way in Iraq, or to see innocent people killed or hurt in military operations. Given all of the facts and circumstances known to us, however, I am convinced that if we wait, a threat will continue to materialize in Iraq that could cause incalculable damage to world peace in general, and to the United States in particular."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Letter to Future of Freedom Foundation
3/1/2003

"Iraq is a grave threat to this nation. It desires to acquire and use weapons of mass terror and is run by a despot with a proven record of willingness to use them. Iraq has had 12 years to comply with UN requirements for disarmament and has failed to do so. The president is right to say it's time has run out."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Senate Speech
3/7/2003

"So has the strategic decision been made to disarm Iraq of its weapons of mass destruction by the leadership in Baghdad? I think our judgment has to be clearly not."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Remarks to UN Security Council
3/7/2003

"Getting rid of Saddam Hussein's regime is our best inoculation. Destroying once and for all his weapons of disease and death is a vaccination for the world."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Washington Post op-ed
3/16/2003

"Let's talk about the nuclear proposition for a minute. We know that based on intelligence, that has been very, very good at hiding these kinds of efforts. He's had years to get good at it and we know he has been absolutely devoted to trying to acquire nuclear weapons. And we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons."

- Dick Cheney, Vice President
Meet The Press
3/16/2003

"Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised."

- George W. Bush, President
Address to the Nation
3/17/2003

"The United States...is now at war so we will not ever see what terrorists could do if supplied with weapons of mass destruction by Saddam Hussein."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Senate Debate
3/20/2003

"Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
3/21/2003

"There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And...as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them."

- General Tommy Franks, Commander in Chief Central Command
Press Conference
3/22/2003

"One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites."

- Victoria Clark, Pentagon Spokeswoman
Press Briefing
3/22/2003

"I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction."

- Kenneth Adelman, Defense Policy Board member
Washington Post, p. A27
3/23/2003

"We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
ABC Interview
3/30/2003

"We simply cannot live in fear of a ruthless dictator, aggressor and terrorist such as Saddam Hussein, who possesses the world's most deadly weapons."

- Bill Frist, Senate Majority Leader
Speech to American Israel Political Action Committee
3/31/2003

"We still need to find and secure Iraq's weapons of mass destruction facilities and secure Iraq's borders so we can prevent the flow of weapons of mass destruction materials and senior regime officials out of the country."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Press Conference
4/9/2003

"You bet we're concerned about it. And one of the reasons it's important is because the nexus between terrorist states with weapons of mass destruction...and terrorist groups -- networks -- is a critical link. And the thought that...some of those materials could leave the country and in the hands of terrorist networks would be a very unhappy prospect. So it is important to us to see that that doesn't happen."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Press Conference
4/9/2003

"Obviously the administration intends to publicize all the weapons of mass destruction U.S. forces find -- and there will be plenty."

- Robert Kagan, Neocon scholar
Washington Post op-ed
4/9/2003

"I think you have always heard, and you continue to hear from officials, a measure of high confidence that, indeed, the weapons of mass destruction will be found."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
4/10/2003

"But make no mistake -- as I said earlier -- we have high confidence that they have weapons of mass destruction. That is what this war was about and it is about. And we have high confidence it will be found."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
4/10/2003

"Were not going to find anything until we find people who tell us where the things are. And we have that very high on our priority list, to find the people who know. And when we do, then well learn precisely where things were and what was done."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Meet the Press
4/13/2003

"I have absolute confidence that there are weapons of mass destruction inside this country. Whether we will turn out, at the end of the day, to find them in one of the 2,000 or 3,000 sites we already know about or whether contact with one of these officials who we may come in contact with will tell us, 'Oh, well, there's actually another site,' and we'll find it there, I'm not sure."

- General Tommy Franks, Commander in Chief Central Command
Fox News
4/13/2003

"We are learning more as we interrogate or have discussions with Iraqi scientists and people within the Iraqi structure, that perhaps he destroyed some, perhaps he dispersed some. And so we will find them."

- George W. Bush, President
NBC Interview
4/24/2003

"There are people who in large measure have information that we need...so that we can track down the weapons of mass destruction in that country."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Press Briefing
4/25/2003

"We'll find them. It'll be a matter of time to do so."

- George W. Bush, President
Remarks to Reporters
5/3/2003

"I'm absolutely sure that there are weapons of mass destruction there and the evidence will be forthcoming. We're just getting it just now."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Remarks to Reporters
5/4/2003

"We never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Fox News Interview
5/4/2003

"I'm not surprised if we begin to uncover the weapons program of Saddam Hussein -- because he had a weapons program."

- George W. Bush, President
Remarks to Reporters
5/6/2003

"U.S. officials never expected that 'we were going to open garages and find' weapons of mass destruction."

- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor
Reuters Interview
5/12/2003

"I just don't know whether it was all destroyed years ago -- I mean, there's no question that there were chemical weapons years ago -- whether they were destroyed right before the war, (or) whether they're still hidden."

- Maj. Gen. David Petraeus, Commander 101st Airborne
Press Briefing
5/13/2003

"We said all along that we will never get to the bottom of the Iraqi WMD program simply by going and searching specific sites, that you'd have to be able to get people who know about the programs to talk to you."

- Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of Defense
Interview with Australian Broadcasting
5/13/2003

"Before the war, there's no doubt in my mind that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical. I expected them to be found. I still expect them to be found."

- Gen. Michael Hagee, Commandant of the Marine Corps
Interview with Reporters
5/21/2003

"It's going to take time to find them, but we know he had them. And whether he destroyed them, moved them or hid them, we're going to find out the truth. One thing is for certain: Saddam Hussein no longer threatens America with weapons of mass destruction."

- George W. Bush, President
Speech at a weapons factory in Ohio
5/25/2003

"Given time, given the number of prisoners now that we're interrogating, I'm confident that we're going to find weapons of mass destruction."

- Gen. Richard Myers, Chairman Joint Chiefs of Staff
NBC Today Show interview
5/26/2003

"They may have had time to destroy them, and I don't know the answer."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Remarks to Council on Foreign Relations
5/27/2003

"For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on."

- Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Secretary of Defense
Vanity Fair interview
5/28/2003

"The President is indeed satisfied with the intelligence that he received. And I think that's borne out by the fact that, just as Secretary Powell described at the United Nations, we have found the bio trucks that can be used only for the purpose of producing biological weapons. That's proof-perfect that the intelligence in that regard was right on target."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
5/29/2003

"We have teams of people that are out looking. They've investigated a number of sites. And within the last week or two, they have in fact captured and have in custody two of the mobile trailers that Secretary Powell talked about at the United Nations as being biological weapons laboratories."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Infinity Radio Interview
5/30/2003

"But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them."

- George W. Bush, President
Interview with TVP Poland
5/30/2003

"You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons...They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two...And we'll find more weapons as time goes on."

- George W. Bush, President
Press Briefing
5/30/2003

"It was a surprise to me then -- it remains a surprise to me now -- that we have not uncovered weapons, as you say, in some of the forward dispersal sites. Believe me, it's not for lack of trying. We've been to virtually every ammunition supply point between the Kuwaiti border and Baghdad, but they're simply not there."

- Lt. Gen. James Conway, 1st Marine Expeditionary Force
Press Interview
5/30/2003

"Do I think we're going to find something? Yeah, I kind of do, because I think there's a lot of information out there."

- Maj. Gen. Keith Dayton, Defense Intelligence Agency
Press Conference
5/30/2003

"This wasn't material I was making up, it came from the intelligence community."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Press Briefing
6/2/2003

"We recently found two mobile biological weapons facilities which were capable of producing biological agents. This is the man who spent decades hiding tools of mass murder. He knew the inspectors were looking for them. You know better than me he's got a big country in which to hide them. We're on the look. We'll reveal the truth."

- George W. Bush, President
Camp Sayliya, Qatar
6/5/2003

"I would put before you Exhibit A, the mobile biological labs that we have found. People are saying, 'Well, are they truly mobile biological labs?' Yes, they are. And the DCI, George Tenet, Director of Central Intelligence, stands behind that assessment."


- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Fox News Interview
6/8/2003

"No one ever said that we knew precisely where all of these agents were, where they were stored."

- Condoleeza Rice, US National Security Advisor
Meet the Press
6/8/2003

"What the president has said is because it's been the long-standing view of numerous people, not only in this country, not only in this administration, but around the world, including at the United Nations, who came to those conclusions...And the president is not going to engage in the rewriting of history that others may be trying to engage in."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Response to Question From Press
6/9/2003

"Iraq had a weapons program...Intelligence throughout the decade showed they had a weapons program. I am absolutely convinced with time we'll find out they did have a weapons program."

- George W. Bush, President
Comment to Reporters
6/9/2003

"The biological weapons labs that we believe strongly are biological weapons labs, we didn't find any biological weapons with those labs. But should that give us any comfort? Not at all. Those were labs that could produce biological weapons whenever Saddam Hussein might have wanted to have a biological weapons inventory."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
Associated Press Interview
6/12/2003

"Those documents were only one piece of evidence in a larger body of evidence suggesting that Iraq attempted to purchase uranium from Africa...The issue of Iraq's pursuit of uranium in Africa is supported by multiple sources of intelligence. The other sources of evidence did and do support the president's statement."

- Sean McCormack, National Security Council Spokesman
Statement to press
6/13/2003

"My personal view is that their intelligence has been, I'm sure, imperfect, but good. In other words, I think the intelligence was correct in general, and that you always will find out precisely what it was once you get on the ground and have a chance to talk to people and explore it, and I think that will happen."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Press Briefing
6/18/2003

"I have reason, every reason, to believe that the intelligence that we were operating off was correct and that we will, in fact, find weapons or evidence of weapons, programs, that are conclusive. But that's just a matter of time...It's now less than eight weeks since the end of major combat in Iraq and I believe that patience will prove to be a virtue."

- Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
Pentagon media briefing
6/24/2003

MS. BLOCK: There were no toxins found in those trailers. SECRETARY POWELL: Which could mean one of several things: one, they hadn't been used yet to develop toxins; or, secondly, they had been sterilized so thoroughly that there is no residual left. It may well be that they hadn't been used yet.

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
All Things Considered, Interview
6/27/2003

"That was the concern we had with Saddam Hussein. Not only did he have weapons -- and we'll uncover not only his weapons but all of his weapons programs -- he never lost the intent to have these kinds of weapons."

- Colin Powell, Secretary of State
All Things Considered, Interview
6/27/2003

"I think the burden is on those people who think he didn't have weapons of mass destruction to tell the world where they are."

- Ari Fleischer, Press Secretary
Press Briefing
7/9/2003

Sorry I can't attribute the collection...

False Statements Accountability Act of 1996

Quote :
" Except as otherwise provided in this section, whoever, in any matter within the jurisdiction of the executive, legislative, or judicial branch of the Government of the United States, knowingly and willfully --

1. falsifies, conceals, or covers up by any trick, scheme, or device a material fact;
2. makes any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or representation; or
3. makes or uses any false writing or document knowing the same to contain any materially false, fictitious, or fraudulent statement or entry; shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."


http://www.law.uh.edu/healthlaw/law/FederalMaterials/FederalStatutes/fraudandfalsestatements18usc1001.pdf

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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Impeachment the entire stinkin' Bush Regime!!!
Also, charge Colin Powell with false testimony to the UN.

Indicte G. Tenet.


Rumsfailed Admitted to Violating Geneva Convention

Rumsfailed admitted in public on TV that when CIA Director Tenet requested that an Iraqi prisoner be sent to a secret Afghan/US Prison that Rumsfailed did so. After four months a DOD Attorney stated that this was an illegal act. Rumsfailed then ordered that this prisoner be sent back to Abu Graihib but the prisoner was purposefully not listed at that location, also an illegal act. Rumsfeld also admitted to signing orders for tougher interogation methods which violated the Geneva Conventions.

Rumfailed has commited at least three violations of the Geneva Convention thereby also violations of The Constitution of the USA. Recently it has been found out that even more detainees were "ghost detainees". The fact that Rumsfailed and Tenet have not been charged speaks volumes. If Congress wishes to garner any respect they should move forward with Rep. Rangle's Impeachment Declaration of Rumsfailed and also proscecute Ex. CIA Tenet.


Does the US, Govt., Congress, and the Justice Dept no longer abide by the Geneva Convention or the Constitution of the USA?
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Pryderi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Yep. Bush, VP and entire cabinet. Co-conspirators in the duping of US
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jun-04-05 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. bush LIED and a hundred thousand DIED
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 06:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. Lie: Yes--Provable: ?????
Edited on Sun Jun-05-05 07:00 AM by Donna Zen
Did bush lie to get us into a war?

Yes. The mud in the water is the careful crafting of that lie.

The intelligence up to that point, summer of 2002, could not verify that all of the weapons had been destroyed. In fact, Ritter and others who counseled against war, could not state unequivocally that there were no weapons. All of Iraq's neighbors have at least chemical weapons, and it was supposed that Saddam did too.

This raises two questions that have been missing from the discussion. If the intelligence could not conclude that there were no weapons, would the supposed weapons rise to a credible threat? And were we being threatened? The answer to those questions are: No. No.

The junta never wanted to know anything more than what they were running around saying: the weapons are coming; because they were making a case for war, not a case against war. The longer the weapons inspectors stayed in Iraq, the weaker their case became.

But from our perspective, by going with the out-of-date intelligence, the administration will be able to weasel out of charging of lying.


That is what the DSM is about. We say it is proof that he lied. The right says it is "old news" and it proves nothing. It cannot be "old news" since it was only exposed in the British press last month?

There is nothing new in the DSM, it is just that no one has ever been outraged about this information. Richard Clarke, Wes Clark and Paul O'Neill both told us that bush wanted to go to war. James Bamford told us in "Pretext for War" exactly how the "lie" was spun, sold to America, and why. All of the dots have been there for many months; however, in no way does that negate the seriousness of the regime's actions. The case may have been out there for a long time, but the discussion has hardly begun.

They wanted a war; they were determined to get a war; they used suspect information and purposely avoided gathering more concrete information that might disprove their case.

Nevertheless, even knowing before the war, which we did, that the bombing or softening up of targets had already begun is not so much new as it is a fact set that proves that the pre-war demonstrators were correct and knew it. And guess what? So did the congress even with their bone of Rummy's crazy claims that he knew exactly where the weapons were. 22 senators voted against the IRW.

I'm sick that these fuckers have been pulling us around by our collective noses. They do have "plausible deniability" but only because they failed to do their jobs. All of them. And why is this country still operating under a policy of "preemption" as determined by bush and company?
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-05-05 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
27. Is the Pope a Catholic? Do bears crap in the woods?
Does the Pope crap in the woods with Catholic bears?

Sorry for being flippant - weird day.

Of COURSE he lied. A THOUSAND TIMES he lied. Make that more precisely almost 17-hundred American times he lied, and who knows how many more times that of Iraqi and other coalition times he lied?

Yes. He LIED.

One thing I think your question does that's really beneficial, I think, is that it begins to cause the word "LIE" to be attached to - and associated with - the name george w. bush. That's VERY important. Guilt by association, if nothing else. He's a bigger LIAR than anyone dared to imagine. Indeed, I think many of us here, even those of us - like myself - who just detest the jackass, harbor perhaps a small hope that it's not true. That an individual who is the leader of our country could be so devious, so greedy, so power-hungry, so manipulative, so phony, as to do this. To repeatedly and earnestly, many times in public, and with many others joining in his pitch for him, tell LIES that sent thousands to permanent dismemberment and/or death...

It's important to bring this up again and again. To challenge the apologists who are just sure it's old news and nothing new and no big deal. We have to stick it in their faces and up their noses EVERY DAY.
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