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Hear comes the Dirt on Kerry. How will this play?

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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:19 PM
Original message
Hear comes the Dirt on Kerry. How will this play?
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 07:05 PM by Quixote1818
By David Podvin

“Stop crying in your teacups. It isn’t going to change. Get over it.”

That was the response of John Kerry to a liberal who condemned the theft of the presidency by George W. Bush. If the sentiment sounds familiar, that’s because it isn’t original. Kerry borrowed his words from America’s vapid conservative posse for whom chanting the phrase “Get over it” constitutes a dazzling display of wit.

http://makethemaccountable.com/podvin/more/040124_StopCrying.htm

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ACPS65 Donating Member (217 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Old news
.
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CalProf Donating Member (219 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yawn. n/t
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stepnw1f Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. One Step At A Time
You know...we realise none of the candidates are perfect, and in an ideal Democracy it is good to scrutinize any politician for his mistakes, especially if he wants to be president, but please get off the high horse, just for a moment. We need to get the Neo-cons out of the White House. We have to keep that in focas or a solid Democratic system, the Dream, is going to be even harder to attain. One step at a time!
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Coupla things
1. Provide a link, and then edit this down to a couple of paragraphs, or the mods will lock it for copyright reasons.

2. A lot of this has been vetted. One example:

WRP: In terms of the 2004 campaign, the central argument put up by a lot of people in the Democratic base who are against you is that you don’t “get it.” They see other candidates as fighting for their progressive values, and they see you saying “Get over it” after the election debacle in Florida, as quoted by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. In contrast, your voting record in the Senate is clearly as progressive as the day is long. Where do you stand with the progressive community? Do you “get it”? Can you be their leader?

JK: I believe that I am the most consistent, most accomplished progressive fighter in this entire field. My record over 35 years of standing up and fighting for progressive causes is clear on with respect to women, with respect to the environment, with respect to children, education, health care, our role in the world, human rights, civil rights. My record is stronger, longer and deeper than any other candidate in this field with respect to the progressive agenda of this party.

When I say “Move on” from 2000, I’m as angry as anyone else. Votes ought to be counted. But my objective is to win. My objective is “Don’t get mad, get even.” They way you get even is to go out and take that agenda to the country and build a coalition around it. I think if you compare my record to the people in this field, I think it’s clear that I am the progressive candidate. I am the one who has stood up and taken the risks and fought for the agenda of my party with consistency.

I think the progressives in our party need to look and see who has the ability to take that progressive agenda and still stand up and beat George Bush. We don’t need to send the country a message. We need to send the country a President.

http://truthout.org/docs_03/122203A.shtml
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. How do you edit? I can't find anything on that.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Lower right-hand corner of your original post
should be a link that says 'Edit.' Hit it. The post-a-thread screen will re-open. Cut all but the first three paragraphs out, provide the link, and then put '...more...' at the bottom.

Speedy, now. You only have an hour to edit before that capability disappears.
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Thanks
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bearfartinthewoods Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. to edit
see the word edit at the bottom right of your post? click it
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #3
17. You're kind. Podvin's an IGNORAMUS. Never heard of BCCI, IranContra
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 06:56 PM by blm
or CIA drugrunning? Kerry exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history and Podvin NEVER NOTICED?

"Kerry is not that man. During his years in Washington, he has been a bloodless technocrat who has watched passively as three Republican presidents have lied and cheated and broken the law. He was a warrior in the battle against Vietnamese communism, but he has been a conscientious objector in the fight against American fascism. While he was undeniably brave in opposing his enemies on the battlefield, his conduct in the Senate has frequently been craven. He has not been a leader, he has been a follower, and all too often he has followed the wrong party."

PODVIN, YOU'RE A STUPID IDIOT.

I could buy him for what he knows and sell him for what he THINKS he knows, and retire the national debt.
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MaineDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. You might want to check DU rules
Re: copyright
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displacedtexan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. Makes it easier for repukes to vote for him, which...
makes it harder for repukes to cheat.
Thanks!
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
6. quit crying in our teacups
for godssake YES. I've never seen more whining and finger-pointing and blaming in my life as I have the last few months. And I've got 4 kids and was a Girl Scout leader for 5 years. good grief people. As long as we're a bunch of whiny babies we'll never get anywhere. Get off your duffs and fight.

And I don't know who this writer is, but... same shit, new day.
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. Kerry was one of the FEW Dems who stood by Gore in 2000
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 06:30 PM by jpgray
Also, see Pitt's interview with Kerry above. Get the context, please.
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Namvet04 Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. I am not a big kerry fan but he sure does blow with the wind
like clark. One day it is bush is great now I am a dem and bush is bad.

I really think Kerry would stand with anyone of us if he gave his word. He was brave to be in the area he was in Nam and unlike Clark, he does not have many generals saying he was fired. No he served with honor.

How long has Kerry been a dem. How long has Clark?

Clark could be good but let him prove it not just talk about it.
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ModerateMiddle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #15
28. actually
Kerry makes a distinction between George Bush the man, and the policies Bush and his administration have implemented. So that might be why it seems like he's inconsistent. He has never waivered on either - Bush is a good, likeable guy, but his policies are almost all the wrong direction.
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Loren645 Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. Actually that's how I remember it. Kerry was one of the few major Dems
to fight for Gore during the recount.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #16
29. Yes. He countered Trent Lott's evil spew on CNN.
Few Dems came forward at that time.
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Loren645 Donating Member (516 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Yep. I made a mental note at the time to be grateful to Kerry for that.
And I am. There are pros and cons with everyone.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Your concern is touching...
as is your desire to preserve the vintage and antique
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. Those words taken out of context. The Dems there applauded Kerry
for his words. he was telling them to get to work.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/5635691.htm

"Presidential candidate John Kerry attempted Monday to light a fire under a lethargic Democratic Party that he said had gotten lazy the past few years.
"Addressing party activists at a luncheon at Claflin University, the Massachusetts senator urged the party faithful to go out and fight for their beliefs.

"'The way to do it is to get mad, to get angry, to get active, to get out there and get off your ...,' he said to prolonged cheers, without completing the thought. 'Get going.'

"Kerry's sermonette was prompted by a questioner dismayed by the outcome of the 2000 presidential election won by George W. Bush and the drubbing Democrats took in the 2002 election. "Bush lost the popular vote to Democrat Al Gore, but captured the electoral vote after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the GOP's favor by denying a vote recount in Florida.

"'Just because the Supreme Court made the wrong decision in 2000 doesn't mean we have to live with it for the next six years,' Kerry said."
>>>>>>
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. That's great!
I love it when he talks like this! And tells us to start dreaming again. Super article, thanks for posting. I hadn't seen it before and added it to my collection.
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #10
27. But it's much more fun to accuse Kerry of "plagiarizing witticisms from
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 07:22 PM by Karmadillo
Ann Coulter." Why let the truth get in the way of being clever? Thanks for putting the remark in context. I hope Kerry hires you and sandnsea as the official White House reality checkers if he's elected.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
11. SOS
Edited on Sat Jan-24-04 06:41 PM by bigtree
Opinion piece. He begins his attack halfway through a populist rant.

Podvin attempts what most of John Kerry's detractors revel in: Plastering him with the sins of Bush.

John's vote for the No Child Left Behind bill becomes, "misusing education money to buy favorable news coverage for Bush"

His admonition for Democrats to get over the Florida debacle becomes "Siding with Bush on the theft of the election"

Votes for judges have evolved into, "voting to confirm extremist judges"

And the incredible statement about a man who's voting record is rated almost 20% higher than Ted Kennedy by some liberal groups:

"Like all too many Washington Democrats, Kerry prizes getting along with Republicans more than he values principle."

Standard stuff for an opponent. Exaggerate and distort the record. This hyperbole has been discussed and refuted by John, and I am sure he welcomes the opportunity to set this barker straight.

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Namvet04 Donating Member (151 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
13. Finegold will support the top 3 Kerry, Dean or Edwards
We should be real careful in these times of attacking the patriot act and then have something happen. Key dem senators had the ACLU to look for any misuse of it and found none. Be careful.

Do you notice how he does not mention bush's old supporter of the war and bush - Clark. Interesting. Are top 3 Kerry, Dean and Edwards have never been pro-bush like Clark.

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Lefta Dissenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
26. I'd be interested in where you get your information
on who Feingold will support.

When he was speaking before a Kiwanis group the other day, he noticed a table of Clark supporters, pointed them out to the crowd, and said that there were some people who were working hard, supporting a candidate who would get us out of Iraq and protect our Constitution. He went on with some mighty fine words about Clark.

As far as I know, he will NOT be endorsing anyone before we have a nominee, but unless you have a link, I think you're talking out of turn by assuming who Russ will and will not support.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
20. I cannot vote for Kerry
It would seem akin to voting against myself.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Why? You are fOR government corruption? Are you mad Kerry exposed it?
Are you mad that he is the lawmaker who exposed MORE government corruption than ANY other lawmaker in modern history?

Gee...I didn't know you were on the side of corruption, Walt. Now, I understand why you dislike Kerry so much.
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. BWAHAHAHAHA
Kerry is the biggest corporatist in this race, IMO.
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. Walt needs to do some more reading, methinks
http://www.commondreams.org/views02/0322-05.htm

Published in the April 8, 2002 issue of The Nation

Enron Democrats
by William Greider

If left-labor-liberal progressives had the cohesion and muscle of their right-wing opposites, they would be articulating a simple-to-understand litmus test for the Democratic Party--no "Enron Democrats" on the presidential ticket in 2004. That precondition would eliminate a number of presidential wannabes now mentioned by the Washington media's Great Mentioner. Scratch Senator Joe Lieberman. Forget the happy talk about Senate majority leader Tom Daschle's running for the White House. And Senator Joe Biden can stop daydreaming. These men--and perhaps some other would-be candidates--do not pass the Enron smell test.

It is not that Enron Democrats got a lot of money themselves from the now-ruined energy company, but they are implicated in more significant ways. On various matters, they helped set the stage for the scandalous behavior of Enron and other highfliers now in disgrace. They defended the degraded accounting standards that hoodwinked investors. Or they promoted financial gimmicks and deregulatory measures that opened the way for grand malpractice. Or they formed thick alliances with the very banks, auditing firms and corporations that are now running for cover--sued, investigated or defrocked as New Economy marvels.

(snip)

Lieberman's Slippery Slope

Senator Joe Lieberman, as chairman of the Governmental Affairs Committee, presides over hearings into what-went-wrong with the air of sorrowful piety that is his specialty. "Gatekeepers weren't keeping the gate, watchdogs weren't watching," he lamented. He neglects to mention that he is one of the faulty watchdogs and also a leading gatekeeper who blocked the timely reform of corporate finance. The Senator has a hypocrisy problem. He frequently sermonizes on the moral failings of others, including other public figures. Meanwhile, he has shilled vigorously, sometimes venomously, for the very players who are new icons of corruption--major auditing firms, corporate executives who cashed stock options early while investors took a bath and, especially, those self-inflating high-tech companies in Silicon Valley that drove the stock-market bubble. As a New Democrat, Lieberman held the door for their escapades.

His most important crusade was protecting the loopy accounting for corporate stock options. Nervous regulators recognized early on that the profusion of stock options had the potential to deceive investors while cheating the tax system--illusions that could drive company stock prices to impossible heights. Tech startup firms, as well as established names like Microsoft, were issuing a growing volume of stock options as a substitute for wage compensation, especially for top executives. These companies did not have to report the billions in new options as an operating cost, thus making their earnings seem much greater than they were. Yet when employees eventually cashed in the options, the companies claimed them as tax deductions. This two-way mirror is symptomatic of the deceptive bookkeeping that permeated corporate affairs during the boom and the bubble.

Back in 1993, when the Financial Accounting Standards Board proposed to stop it, Lieberman went to war. "I believe that the global pre-eminence of America's vital technological industries could be damaged by the proposal," he warned. The FASB, he insinuated, was politically motivated or simply didn't grasp the bright promise of the New Economy. Lieberman organized a series of letters warning the accountants' board to stop its meddling. In the Senate, he mobilized a resolution urging the Securities and Exchange Commission to squelch the reform. It passed 88 to 9. The regulators backed off--and stock prices soared on the inflated earnings reports. Whenever FASB tried to reopen the issue, Lieberman jumped them again. He was well rewarded by Silicon Valley and auditing firms. He is the New Democrats' favorite candidate for 2004.

Lieberman's victory was extraordinarily costly for the economy, not to mention duped investors, unhinging valuations and fostering the overinvestments that now hang over the tech industry. Accounting professor Itzhak Sharav of the Columbia University Business School describes Lieberman's intervention as the first step on "the slippery slope that got us mired in the Enron swamp." Once auditors and corporate managers saw regulators defanged on stock options, Sharav explained, they were emboldened to explore further in the realm of gimmicky profit reports. "How much is two plus two? How much do you want it to be?" Sharav said. "Once you start playing games with the numbers, there's no limit to what you might do." Senators Carl Levin and John McCain have proposed a nifty solution--companies can no longer have it both ways. If they don't account for their stock options as a cost in earnings reports, then they cannot claim them later as tax deductions. Lieberman is opposed--still on the slippery slope.

(snip)

Citibank Democrats

Labor and consumer lobbyists felt a chill in early March when Senate majority leader Tom Daschle announced his intention to get "a strong bankruptcy bill out of conference and on the President's desk within four weeks, so the bill can be signed before we go home for the Easter recess." Bankruptcy "reform" is of a different order from Enron fraud or loophole bookkeeping by Arthur Andersen, but it emanates from the same political sources and is, likewise, hideously one-sided in its impact on ordinary citizens. The legislation was written by major banks and the credit-card industry, wishing to tighten the screws on debt-soaked families. No one doubts this measure will make life even more miserable for the people maxed out on their credit cards and on the brink of Chapter 7. Daschle's statement meant the Democratic leader thinks it is now safe to enact the bankers' bill. Last year, a record 1,492,000 Americans filed for bankruptcy protection, but now the recession is over, isn't it?

"It really is pretty much a creditors' wish list," explained Henry Sommer, vice president of the National Association of Consumer Bankruptcy Lawyers. "Some people won't be able to file at all , and everyone will have to pay hundreds of dollars more in fees, which knocks a lot of them out of filing. Many who by filing now could save their homes from foreclosure or their cars from repossession won't be able to do so under this bill. And many will come out of bankruptcy owing as much as they owe now. Congress gave a lot to the credit-card companies, but this is really an equal-opportunity bill; they also gave a lot to the car lenders, the mortgage lenders, the residential landlords, the finance companies, even credit unions."

In Congressional circles, a bill like this one is known as a "money vote," because it's an opportunity for good fundraising from monied interests (or, if you vote wrong, you face the risk of those interests financing your next opponent). For six years, the financial industry has lobbied intensively for this measure and both parties have milked it like a veritable cash cow. Contributions from finance companies and credit-card firms more than doubled during the last election cycle, passing $9 million. Commercial banks are the dominant credit-card issuers--led by Citibank, with $99.5 billion in credit-card debt--and this remains their most profitable line of business. Commercial banking as a whole increased political spending in the last election by nearly 60 percent, to $26.1 million, though the bankers' money speaks on many issues beyond tapped-out borrowers.

When George W. Bush took office, a bankruptcy bill was the first major legislation passed by the new Congress. Bill Clinton had vetoed a milder version, but in the new circumstances many former opponents scrambled aboard. Only sixteen Democratic senators voted against the bill, led by Paul Wellstone (the measure would have become law long ago, if not for Wellstone's guerrilla resistance). The "yea" votes included a couple of new faces much celebrated as "people" politicians and presidential possibles--Hillary Clinton and John Edwards. Two other potential candidates--Russ Feingold and John Kerry--voted against it.

...lots more...
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 07:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
35. Environmentalists don't think so.
Can you prove why YOU are right and environmentalists are wrong?
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
33. Would Vote For Kerry
Knowing that it would be the worst vote I ever cast. After Dean, Clark is the only one who could beat B###.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. And how will you feel when Kerry wins?
Will you feel better?
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:02 PM
Response to Original message
21. Big surprise! A Dean supporter with a blog dissing Kerry. OH NO!!!!
Amazing!

Povdin should try this recipe:

SOUR GRAPE SALAD

8 ounces cream cheese
1/2 cup pineapple juice
1 large can pineapple, drained
4 cups seedless white sour grapes
2/3 cup chopped nuts
1 (6 ounce) package miniature marshmallows

Cream the cheese with pineapple juice. Add the drained pineapple, sour grapes, nuts and marshmallows. Mix well and refrigerate for several hours. Serve on lettuce leaves.

Serves 6 to 8.
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Old and In the Way Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. You forgot the dash of bitter tears.
:-)
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-24-04 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. I think it has lots more nuts in it
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