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It's official: the DLC wants WAR

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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:52 PM
Original message
It's official: the DLC wants WAR
After reviewing events the past few days, the dying-but-not-dead-yet DLC is truly in a panic over Howard Dean leading the Party away from corporate lobbyist money, and firing with all their cannons left:

Edwards- who was paraphrased by cobbled quotes news releases from the DLC and smartly explainsed his position AND the out of context Howard Dean remark they were referring to like he made it yesterday.
Biden same weak ass snark you see from an inside the beltway clone, he seesm to be a meat puppet of Al Froms of late
Richardson again repeats the meme that "Dean is not spokesman for the party" in New Hampshire today

What's this over? Dean's refusal to emphasize corporate lobbyist-generated contributions ( and all their strings) over individual contributions. Scariest of all: Dean is setting records for an off year collection of Democratic Party donations, and he's doing it with individuals.

But listening to the DLC drones talk, you'd think there are nothing but cobwebs in the treasury. What they are really saying in their oblique , inside-the-beltway parlance is " if they don't need the DLC to broker money from corporations, what are we supposed to do for work?"

Thus, the idea of people, grass roots folk, actually having a say in the party, just horrifies them. Next thing you know, they will expect the democrats to vote against conservative judges and ( gasp) corporate interests.

What's next? Stopping the money going to defense? After all, we only spend ten times as much as the rest of the world put together.

Somebody, quick! Hide the sacred cows in the DLC barn!
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. Oh yeah. Contribute to the "We've got Deans Back" fund
link on this page somewhere
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. the DLC label
just what this pointless discussion needs now: a meaningless label.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. That's not a label, and it's not meaningless.
The pols mentioned in my post are all prominent members and DC leaders of the DLC.

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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. No, the label has come to mean too many things
After all, Vermont environmentalists were bitching about their DLC poster boy governor gutting environmental legislation for IBM some years back. Very early in the primary, people would gnash their teeth about Lieberman being anointed by the DLC and about how all would be powerless to stop him, then Clark, and then Kerry. The DLC label has become meaningless because it is used without any consistency and has been divorced from the DLC's actual level of power and influence--like WMD now miraculously means a tin of ancient mustard gas, any and all people who disagree with some here are immediately DLC stooges, even if the DLC has no obvious hand whatsoever in their actions. The DLC leadership are pretty odious to me, but I don't look at Edwards' recent statements and think "ah! the wicked hand of the ubiquitous and all-knowing DLC".
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Look, I know who I'm talking about. I'm a member of the DLC
I'm sorry you are so confused. But I GET the talking points. I'm just not playing for that team any more.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
25. I was waiting for this! You always say it...
..and then declare that YOU get the mysterious DLC transmissions the rest of us don't.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. And I was waiting for apologists.
Surprise level= zero.
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pgh_dem Donating Member (584 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Sorry, but that shoe is fitting
Haven't seen the DLC do a damn thing for election reform, make a peep about the DSM, throw an elbow in the judicial/bolton fights...

But man, are they all over any criticism of republicans or corporations...

It is a valid question to wonder whose side they are on.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Biden didn't throw an elbow in the Bolton fights?
see what I mean about meaningless? If Biden didn't throw an elbow in the Bolton fights, who did? Did you see the committee meetings on C-span?
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. So he throws an elbow, then sits down and gets run over
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 07:09 PM by Capn Sunshine
This style of Democratic Party fight, made famous by the dLC, says we make a point and then let them win.

That doesn't get us down the road. Biden has his moments, but then he shows whose side he's really on when he attacks Dean with a faxed DLC talking point about how he "doesn't represent the party" and was wrong for a remark which was made months ago and taken out of context. By the DLC. Faxed to Biden, Richardson, Vilsak, and the rest. Including me.

All because Dean wants to give the party back to the people.
Or maybe you think that it's OK that the government shouldn't have bulk negotiating rights for prescription drugs.
Take a look at Bidens vote on THAT issue.-
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. I don't like Joe Biden
but I don't know or care if he's in the DLC.

And he did lead the anti-Bolton fight, that's a fact. But I still don't like him.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. and Biden isn't even DLC
like I said, I don't care if he is or not.

But for purposes of showing why I think labelling like this is useless, I think it's interesting that one of your DLC "leaders" is not even listed in the DLC's "New Dem Directory"

http://www.ndol.org/new_dem_dir_action.cfm?viewAll=1
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #20
54. Just a little factoid. The DLC loves Biden & he loves them.
Technically he may not be. Who really knows?
I go by the old saying of "by their actions you will know them".

This one quacks, walks and talks like a duck! And for good measure, signs a few PNAC letters just to make sure there's no confusion about which side of the fence he's stradling.

You're right that the labels are becoming meaningless but that's only because they know we're watching them and they don't want us labeling them.


As some of you read this - remember that Biden signed PNAC's letter requesting the draft be reinstated.




Press Release | March 15, 2005
Sen. Biden Receives DLC's Truman Award
Biden Speaks on the Foreign Policy Challenges Facing America

For Immediate Release

Contact: Kyra Jennings
(202) 546-0007/(800) 547-0027

WASHINGTON, D.C. -- Senator Joseph Biden (D-Del.) spoke to the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) today on the need for Democrats to offer an enlightened foreign policy strategy and a unique vision for the future of democracy around the world.

"I believe we are literally at the hinge of history," Senator Biden stated. "I believe that our military power is necessary, but not sufficient, to change the world. It will be our ideas and our ideals -- the things we value, the things we stand for, the same things that brought the Berlin Wall down -- that will nudge the world toward more freedom and democracy."

At the event, Senator Biden was presented with the Democratic Leadership Council's Harry S. Truman Award. The award recognizes the senator's dedication to the Democratic Party's legacy of a strong national defense and the advancement of American ideals, embodied by the 33rd President of the United States.

Al From, Founder and CEO of the DLC, stated at the presentation ceremony, "The Harry S. Truman Award was created to recognize the commitment of leaders of our party to the strong national security principles of the plain spoken President from Independence. Joe Biden is a statesman in the tradition of Truman. Our party, and indeed our nation, is fortunate to have him as an advocate on the world stage."


http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=85&subid=108&contentid=253240



Can't blame the man for getting recognition some will say... Well maybe not, but you can certainly characterize him for the comments he made when accepting the DLC's award during their mutual love-fest:




At the Tipping Point: Democratization in the Middle East
Senator Biden's Remarks to the DLC on March 15, 2005
By Senator Joseph Biden

(As Prepared for Delivery)

A Terrible Beauty Has Been Born

Nearly a hundred years ago the great Irish poet William Butler Yeats, writing of his Ireland said: "The world has changed, it has changed utterly. A terrible beauty has been born."

And that is precisely what I'd like to talk to you about. The terrible beauty of change in the Middle East.

As President Bush put it, and I quote: "A critical mass of events is taking the region in a hopeful new direction."

What are these critical mass of events he's talking about? There's a Palestinian--Iraqi election; the Saudi municipal elections; Egypt's President Mubarak's commitment to allow competitive elections for president; and the Lebanese people demanding Syria withdraw and that there be free parliamentary elections.

These events also raise a serious question: Have we reached the democratic tipping--point similar to the peaceful revolutions that occurred in Eastern Europe bringing down those communist regimes? Or will the region tip toward more radicalism, fundamentalism, and violence?

I believe an enlightened American foreign policy and a little luck and a lot of perseverance can help ensure that beauty is in fact born.

The Benefits of Democratization

In January, in his second inaugural address, President Bush spoke with great eloquence about expanding freedom.

I was a little frustrated by some of my Democratic colleagues and some of our friends around the world. Here's the headline from the leading Green newspaper in Germany, and I quote the headline: "Bush threatens more freedom." It seemed to me that distaste for the messenger has obscured the truth of his message. :puke:

Clearly the President's speech struck a chord with the American people.

The benefits of freedom and the desire to share them with others go to the essence of who we are as a people, how we see ourselves, and our own national experience.

I think the President was also right to link expanding democracy to our own self--interest. Liberal democracies tend not to attack one another. They tend not to abuse their own people. They tend not to produce terrorists. :puke:

Conversely, on 9--11 we learned the absence of democracy, halfway around the world, can do terrible horror to us here at home.

Now, some believe we're witnessing a clash of civilizations, but I reject that idea. I believe we're seeing a clash within a civilization.

The Muslim world is divided between those who want to move their societies forward and those few who would retreat to the false promises of the past. Ironically, those who want to take their societies backwards gained strength from the region's autocratic leaders who call themselves our friends.

The autocrats seek to preserve the status quo. They're responsible for the almost total lack of political, economic and social openness in the Middle East.

When that happens, you know what happens. In the absence of any outlets for dissent, dissent is channeled underground.

And, in the Muslim world, that means it is channeled into the only place it can be heard: In the mosque, where it is captured by radical Islamic fundamentalist clerics.

The autocratic leaders buy their own peace by funding fundamentalist clerics, and cynically diverting the blame for their own failures in their own countries toward us and toward Israel.

We compound the problem -- and the irony -- by our support of those autocrats over the last several decades as the lesser of two evils, which has earned us the enmity of the silent majority -- the majority of modern, moderate Arabs that they repressed.

The fact is the autocrats and the radical fundamentalists have both become our problem. The only antidote is more openness and a move toward real democracy.

I also believe that history is on democracy's side.

In 1775 there was not a single democracy in the world. After our revolution there was one. Now there are 117 electoral democracies; some 60percent of the world's governments.

And as the number of democracies increase still further, pressure will mount on the tyrannical outliers. We may be witnessing this very phenomenon as we speak today.

Now, the tipping point events of recent weeks were triggered by other events that we had little or nothing to do with: Arafat's death... the assassination of Rafiq Hariri... terror attacks in Saudi Arabia... the increasingly vocal protests in Egypt.

And it was the Ayatollah Sistani, not this administration, who insisted on elections in Iraq sooner rather than later, though President Bush was right to stick to the schedule.

But the President's focus on expanding freedom -- and his clear rhetoric -- does make a difference. It helps embolden moderates and modernizers... and lifts the fear of reprisals. Providing that kind of space is critical to progress.

Injecting a Little Realism

With all the promise out there, we also have to inject a little realism.

The last significant opportunity history delivered to President Bush -- an opportunity to unite the nation and the world -- I believe, was squandered.

Imagine if on 9--11 John Kennedy or Franklin Roosevelt or even Ronald Reagan had been president of the United States. Imagine what they would have said to us.

I believe you would have heard something like:

"My fellow Americans, we have a been dealt a terrible blow, but I have called a summit of the world's leading powers to help us crush this new phenomenon of evil. And I'm going to the United States Congress tomorrow to ask all Americans who are able to give to their country. We need a new program of national service. And I'm introducing an energy policy to free us from the tyrannical grip of oil in the Middle East. It will take sacrifice, but I demand it of you."

Just imagine. Imagine that had been said.

And let's remember, it was President Bush who was the late convert to the cause of expanding freedom. He arrived in Washington mocking the very idea of promoting democracy and nation--building. Just as many conservatives berated President Clinton for acting in the Balkans.

And the initial rationale for President Bush's two signature initiatives, Afghanistan and Iraq, was not the expansion of freedom. In each case, democracy is an ex post facto justification. In the first, Afghanistan, we needed no justification. And in the second, we needed much.

As it now stands, there is a significant gap between the President's rhetoric and his policies. This dichotomy risks undermining the credibility we're trying to restore with modernizers throughout the Middle East.

Let me explain what I mean. The administration talks tough on dictatorial adversaries like Iran and North Korea, but it rarely sustains the heat on illiberal partners like China, Russia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

After all, we need China to help roll back North Korea's nuclear program.

We need Russia's help to assure that we can destroy those loose nuclear weapons that could fall into the hands of the wrong people, and to prevent Iran from going fully nuclear.

We need Pakistan's help to root out Al Qaeda and the remainder of the Taliban. We need Egypt's help on the Mid East peace process and in Iraq.

So here's the problem: The President's very strength -- the absolutism of his rhetoric -- creates a very mixed message when it runs into the reality of our short--term security interests.

It would help if the President acknowledged and explained that tension to the American people and the people around the world.

The Hard Work of Promoting Democracy

And finally, and perhaps most importantly, democratic promotion is hard work. It must go beyond rhetorical support and the passion of a single speech.

It's one thing to topple a tyrant, it's another to put something better in his or her place.

Our experience in Iraq demonstrates the unintended consequence of imposing democracy from outside by force without a clear plan for the day, the year, the decade after.

We still may succeed, as a matter of fact I believe we must succeed. But our mishandling of Iraq has allowed autocrats in the region to use the post--Saddam chaos as justification for denying their people more freedom.

You hear them say: "With me life is stable and predictable. Without me, we will reap the whirlwind. Without me it will be radical fundamentalism that will take our place." And it goes on and on and on.

I believe the most effective, sustainable way to advocate democracy is to work from the inside with those moderates and modernizers to build democratic institutions.

By that I mean political parties, an independent judiciary, an independent media, a modern education system, the civil society and non--governmental organizations, a private sector.

Elections, in the absence of these institutions, favor the most organized groups in those societies, which also tend to be the most radical.

To put it another way -- freedom and liberal democracy are not synonymous. The former without the latter is a recipe for chaos and for return to autocratic rule.

I'm not sure the Bush administration gets the distinction. And if it does, I know it's not acting on it yet.

Just follow the money. In next year's budget, the administration has requested $30 million less for the Middle East Partnership Initiative, the signature democratic promotional front for the region, $30 million less than last year. It makes the same request as last year for the National Endowment for Democracy, which has had great success in the building of political parties and non--governmental organizations, monitoring elections. It zeroes out regional democratic funds for Africa, Asia and the Middle East.

And the Administration continues to channel most of its economic funds to our illiberal friends through their central governments instead of directly to independent actors.

I consider President Mubarak a personal friend. I met with him for close to three hours in Sharm El Sheikh at his request this past December.

He was upset when I said we should change the mix in the aid we give you. We should make sure that non--governmental organizations promoting democracy get our help and our support. He didn't like it, but I think he understands it's a necessity.

We should be providing more of our money directly to these non--governmental organizations in Egypt to help train the journalists, the judges, the political organizations, instead of directly to the Mubarak administration.

We should be building schools in Pakistan to compete with the Madrassas, not giving open--ended assistance to the government to pay its own salaries.

Two years ago, I proposed the establishment of a private, non--profit Middle East Foundation. It would provide grants to those in the region working to promote a vibrant civil society, an independent media, political parties, the rule of law, modern education systems, human rights including women's rights, and the private sector.

The administration has embraced the idea and, with a little luck, it will become law this spring. But will we fund it?

I also believe that combating poverty in failed states is as important in the quest of expanding political freedom as anything else, in order to change the conditions that breed extremism. We must deal with poverty. Developmental assistance, debt relief, education reform -- all must be part of our arsenal. Freedom from fear and freedom from want are flip sides of the democratic coin.

The Great Struggle of Our Time and The War of Ideas

The great struggle of our time -- the struggle between freedom and radical Islamic fundamentalism -- is primarily a war of ideas and ideals.

There are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. The vast, vast majority of them are not radical. But they don't know of our ideas and our ideals. They only know of our military power.

To prevail, we clearly have to be strong militarily. But we also have to be smart, welding the force of our ideas and our ideals together with the force of our arms.

The spread of democracy is crucial to us winning that war and undercutting the ideology of radical Islamic fundamentalism.

But democracy is more than just about elections. Our goal must be to help build and support the institutions of liberal democracy. That takes time. It takes money. And it takes courage. It is a generational challenge.

If we begin the process, the generation behind us, the so--called X and Y Generations, is smarter, more capable and more patriotic than any generation before it. And they will finish the job, but we are going to have to start it.

I believe we are literally at the hinge of history.

I believe that our military power is necessary, but not sufficient, to change the world. It will be our ideas and our ideals -- the things we value, the things we stand for, the same things that brought the Berlin Wall down -- that will nudge the world toward more freedom and democracy.

And we do it for our own safety's sake as well as the sake of the people who would be free, for only a few generations, a very few generations, have been delivered to such a moment, such an opportunity.

As another Irish poet, Seamus Heaney, wrote in his poem The Cure at Troy: "History said don't hope of this side of the grave. But then, once in a lifetime, the longed for tidal wave of justice rises up, and hope and history rhyme."

We have an opportunity to make hope and history rhyme. Let's seize it.


http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=106&subid=122&contentid=253239



Wow. A praise be to Bush speech with a palliative bone at the end that there's a little room for improvement.
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Zhade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #54
87. Oh, fucking PUKE.
:puke:

He's such a collaborator. He's standing there praising a war criminal!

Fucking Biden. Pro-PNAC traitor.

Hi, Tinoire.

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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #20
65. Biden is SERIOUS DLC. nt
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #11
43. And let's not forget Biden's vote on the bankruptcy bill
which is going to cause a LOT of real harm to a LOT of real people. Kissin' up to and doing the work of MBNA and other corporate greedmongers/fascists.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
30. man i can't believe how much in denial some of you are.
unbelievable.
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Maat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. I don't like this baloney either. (n/t).
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. why?
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. .
:popcorn:
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jobycom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Very good!
:hide:
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #4
63. Yeah, the Deaniacs doing all the real work.
So what's new.
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tnlefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:09 PM
Response to Original message
14. Done and thanks for posting!
:kick:
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natrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
15. toss em over - what do we have to loose
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Southsideirish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. Die, DLC, Die. Your day is over, gone, finito. We don't want you
-go away!!!
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Arugula Latte Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #16
78. Yes, Be Gone!
Before we drop a house on you, too!
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
17. Thanks Capn Sunshine for your post.
:thumbsup:
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
18. In the long run...
... I'm betting on Dean. Because he's smarter and more innovative than these corporate whore jokers.

It's no surprise that the DLC is going to fight. They are losing their cushy jobs and their influence. Sucks to be them.

The only thing I can't figure is why they can never muster the courage to really fight Republicans, only Dean.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Know what else ticks me off?
The "Timing" of this , where it can distract from the Downing Street memos.

We should be united behind this, and instead we have to fight the crap.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. It certainly lends creedence...
.... to the theory that the Dems and Repubs are just playing a game, putting on a show for the masses while they have secretly already decided how everything will go down.

I'm not much on sweeping conspiracy theories, but the timing is quite the coincidence isn't it :)
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #18
45. Not only that (that Dean's smarter and more innovative), but
in addition I truly believe he is a force whose time has come. He is prescient himself, and usually a step or two or ten ahead of everyone else, and his heart is in the right place. He is a man of incredible integrity, and I truly believe that if ANYone can begin to lead us out of this quagmire, it's Dean. Not alone, of course, and he's no savior. But he IS a LEADER, a Leader Extraordinaire.

I want people to watch. I think this Howard Dean is a Man for Our Times.
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JRob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #45
81. i sure hope someone has his back...
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #18
72. Simple:
The same people that own the DLC also own the Republicans.
Why attack someone going the same direction as yourself?

The self-admitted goal of the DLC is to increase the influence of Corporate Money in government. That is also the goal of the Republican Party. Why fight?


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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
21. Biden isn't DLC
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jpgray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. You need to start thinking in black and white
It makes reading DU much easier.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Gee that's funny. He goes to all the meetings.
And was on the 2003 rolls.

Either way, he's furthering their agenda.
DLC-symp?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:25 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Howard Dean was on the DLC rolls at one time, too.
Went to a few meetings as well.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. he's not DLC, and he is fighting Bolton
like him, don't like him, but let's stay in the reality-based community.

Biden being a DLC leader, and Biden not fighting Bolton, are only remotely true for someone that doesn't care about the facts.
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chaumont58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Biden is for Biden, and no one else
During the runup to the Iraqi invasion, Senator Daschle critisized chimpie for his diplomatic failures(justified, IMO, then and now). Biden was on one of the talking head shows and was given a chance to defend his Senate Leader. He hemmed and hawed and didn't. Biden is egotistical POS. The only thing good about him is that he not a repuke in name as well as deed.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:32 PM
Response to Reply #21
32. Then why is he all over their websites?
See for yourself

And not only is Biden DLC, he's also PNAC
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #32
49. OMG- BIden DID sign a PNAC letter -- the only Senator to do so
unless I missed someone in my quick survey. But DLC's Will Marshall signed it, which is only to be expected. :puke:
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. here's the letter - have you ever even read it?
http://www.newamericancentury.org/russia-20040928.htm



it's hardly an endorsement of the PNAC agenda
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Tinoire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. Well... if you believe that, Halliburton has a bridge to sell you
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 11:03 PM by Tinoire

Bending over to ensure that PNAC has the tools it needs for its project, in this case, a military built up by forcing our young people into it, is worse than an endorsement- it's active, willing participation and support.

Biden. Another chickenhawk who didn't serve a day in Vietnam but more than happy to put everyone else's kids at the PNAC's disposal.

No thank you.
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:15 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. I guess you didn't read the letter, either
but, hey! why pass up a perfectly good excuse to trash Joe Biden.

It's trash Joe Biden week here on the Trash Democrats Underground!

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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #53
61. I don't care if it's a letter to fucking Santa Claus!!
The fact is that PNAC are fascist criminals and by the time that letter was written, Biden the so called intelligence expert certainly knew who and what they were. So by sigining their document, he is in fact, endorsing them.

And besides, all that crap at the NDOL/DLC/PPI website, plus Biden's own comments on his weekly appearances on talk shows make it more than obvious that he is 100% in support of the neocon agenda for global fascism.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:09 AM
Response to Reply #61
68. the letter had nothing to do with the
pnac's agenda, and was in fact signed by several global dignataries who, along with Biden, can hardly be described as "100% in support of the neocon agenda for global fascism".

What do you think of Biden leading the fight against the nomination of John Bolton? Can you fit that into your black and white world?

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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 01:42 AM
Response to Reply #68
80. Biden's fight against Bolton is like his comments about closing Gitmo.
it's not that he gives a flying fuck about people being tortured or a flaming asshole representing us at the UN. It's just that he wants to avoid the bad publicity that such things would bring. Don't want any tough questions from the mediawhores on Sunday morning, after all.

Biden is a phony shitbag. From his hairplugs on down.
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sunnystarr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #53
94. Ummm so if Al Qaida drafted a letter
that expressed their hope for a resolution of the Palestinian/Israili conflict and peace in the region ... how many world/American leaders would sign it?

The right sentiment under the wrong letter head can be political suicide.

Biden's signature under a PNAC letterhead insures that I'd never vote for him for anything. Although his loyalties were made evident with his vote on the Bankruptcy bill which took away any potential vote in a Presidential primary for this Democrat.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
24. Couple of comments
You're actually talking about two different groups in your post, but you "meld" them with your phrasing.

1. You say Edwards, Biden, and Richardson are all the canons the DLC has left. Really? Three members disagree with Howard Dean? How dare they! One correctly states the DNC chair isn't the spokesman for the party? Oh, the inhumanity!

2. You either purposely or inadvertently imply your second group (fundraisers) is the same as the first group when Edwards, Biden, and Richardson have not commented on fundraising but rather the careless remarks of Howard Dean.

So, seeing that Edwards, Biden, and Richardson (hardly the the last canons of the DLC) were not commenting on fundraising, who are the "DLC drones" who are so against Dean's fundraising techniques (or rather, why do think they are "DLC drones?" Because they are conflicting with Dean? )

And must we revisit the tired "Dean was taken out of context again" meme? He said what he said. We could put it in the context of everything he said that day, and it would still mean the same thing.
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
33. I think you misunderstood
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 07:36 PM by Capn Sunshine
The context of the whole "movement" here is DLC politicians stepping out and saying Dean doesn't represent them is BECAUSE of the fundraising issue at its core.

It's a concentrated broadside to attempt to diminish the role of Dean and keep the DLC's corporate client list alive. If you lose the ability to peddle influenec, what good are you as a peddler? Inside the beltway types can't conceive that corporate money will not have the influence they seek because systemically, they are too poisoned to see it's killing us.

You know that as well as I do. You get the talking points.

And taking Dean out of context is hardly a "meme". It's a national pastime.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:47 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. So let me get this straight
DLC politicians were waiting for a Dean gaffe so they could take out their frustrations on him over his fundraising?

Sounds like a stretch - but anything is possible in politics I guess.
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CAcyclist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 08:12 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Thanks, Cap'n Sunshine!
I think your assessment of the situation is exactly on target.
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stickdog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #24
76. And Edwards, Biden & Richardson all took shots at him instead of
practicing damage control. Why do you think they all did that? Were they too naive to understand what the corporate media would do with their quotes? Or do they just want to diminish Dean so much that they don't care how weak and disarrayed their party looks when they circle up and start firing?
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AmericanDream Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
28. Edwards is not even DLC ... get a grip!
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 07:33 PM by AmericanDream
As for Biden... he is just a little nuts... you think anyone is even listening to him within the party? Can we stop the foolishness of creating this rift. The true DLC types are people like Bayh who are sitting on the margins watching the show with their mouths shut.

I can speak for Edwards because I keep a watch on his work and speeches... he is a progressive to the core and he has been speaking up for true democratic causes at fundraisers & other events for the democratic party (as he did with his message in the primaries)... he's been in about 22 states... and is due at an event with Dean soon. That makes him DLC type? Please, the guy is a populist and has repeatedly said that Dean is doing a great job. He makes one statement of disagreement... and it gets turned into some sort of Revolt! He was just asked about it at a democratic fundraiser and his bad luck that he got caught up in this whole DLC sham... he did not go to some sunday news show to make the case against Dean!

As for Biden, and Richardson... I don't know their motivation... they might have an agenda to distance themselves from Dean... I wouldn't speak for those two.
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Hell Hath No Fury Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
40. "Edwards is progressive to the core"???
Um, on what planet? Edwards is and has always been a solid centrist. There are very few genuine progressives left in the Congress -- and Edward ain't one of them.
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AmericanDream Donating Member (714 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #40
46. What does progressive mean to you? Btw... on this planet!....
From social justice... to egalitarianism... to economic issues (he gest the increasing disparity in this country)... to fighting poverty.... to reforming the tax system to a more progressive mode... to giving power to the people (Patients Bill of rights)... to standing up against corporations (as an attorney and then as a senator who never took lobbyist money!).... to being solidly pro-choice (he is on record saying that he does not believe life begins at conception) .... to supporting science and research (he is a major advocate of alternative sources of energy and stem cell research) .... to the independent judiciary .... (yes, he said that the compromise on filibuster might be a win for Dems but the judges that are being let through are unacceptable) I don't see where he is NOT progressive! Except for his position on the war.... which is just ONE issue. I'm talking about the whole picture.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:40 PM
Response to Original message
34. one thing I agree with, the DLC probably does want war
because they don't care so much about the damage it will do to the party, and so to the country.

Myself, I want peace and harmony. Let's not play into the hawks' hands.
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UDenver20 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:49 PM
Response to Original message
36. Amen... Dean is the ONLY Dem showing his pair...
Where is this "We've got Deans Back" fund anyway?

Whether Biden, Richardson, and Edwards are DLC, not DLC, or ABCDEFG doesn't really f*cking matter. If they spent half the time talking about the DSM that they've spent criticizing Dean it *might* be getting some traction with main stream press.

My dollar is far more valuable than my vote - and I'll place that dollar with anyone that has the courage to speak out for what's right.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
37. I don't know who is DLC or not DLC, but..
You can add Salazar and Nelson to your list on Chris Matthews last night. They were the worst.
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ZinZen Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Salazar and Nelsen
Their attempts at comedy at the expense of Dean was pathetic. They are about as funny as watching paint dry.
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Adelante Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. It was disgusting
I was truly embarassed for all of us.

Mark Pryor wasn't bad and Mary Landrieu was good. They had some class about them. But Salazar and Nelson should be spanked hard.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #42
67. Salazar?? Well hey, there's gratitude for you.
If I remember correctly, didn't DFA get that asshole elected in the first place?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 08:52 PM
Response to Original message
41. Yep....they drunk the "Globilization at all Costs Kool AID!" and they are
staggering around caught up in the rhetoric and the rewards that "World Dominance" can bring.

Or, they are "Clueless Idiots" who have "no spine."

:shrug:
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ZinZen Donating Member (599 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 08:57 PM
Response to Original message
44. I think your assessment is right on Capn.
The DLC is threatened by Dean's power to raise money from the people, and not only corporations.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Welcome to DU,
ZinZen!

I think your assessment is right on, too,Sunshine..it's only obvious they want to undermine Dean and they didn't want him in the first place.

Whether those dlc types are officially dlcers or not..it matters not.
I think dlc has become a term for bushlite and I want no freakin' part of them.
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Pepperbelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 09:12 PM
Response to Original message
48. Get a grip, Captain ...
This is a whole lot of nothing.

Crap stirred by your humble and obedient servents, the mainstream media, doing what they do best, sowing dischord among the brethern. Notice helpful Pan bringing a bucket of water.

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Tamyrlin79 Donating Member (944 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #48
56. The way I see it...
The only ones sowing dischord and disharmony are those Dems intent on criticizing our DNC Chairman. Don't like party disharmony? Then, I suggest critical dems sit back and shut up until they have something good to say.

Remember when it was "fall in line" with John Kerry during the election? Well, Kerry lost, and Dean, as DNC Chair is now the de facto head of this party, just as Kerry would have been as president. So, these critical Dems need to take their own advice now and FALL IN LINE behind the path that GRASSROOTS DEMOCRATS have CHOSEN and FUNDED for the past three months via Howard Dean.

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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
50. Capn, did you see this? MUST READ - validates your assesment
Beltway Dem insiders whine, 'Dean stole our Golden Goose!'
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1835521
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 10:17 PM
Response to Original message
52. Why doesn't the DLC
join the DNC? And the Proggressives and the Greens?
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:09 PM
Response to Original message
57. Personally, I'd rather go to war with the Republicans
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 11:09 PM by Hippo_Tron
Once we have the white house and the congress and have kicked out both the Bush gang and the DeLay gang, then we'll talk about Al From. Until then, I have bigger fish that I want to fry.
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AntiCoup2K4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 01:38 AM
Response to Reply #57
79. They ARE Republicans
Or more accurately, they are the same fascist slime that took over the Republican party 20 years ago. Not really Republicans either.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 01:54 AM
Response to Reply #79
82. Maybe, but they aren't the ones in control of the white house and congress
Those are the ones that I'm worried about.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:16 PM
Response to Original message
59. It's official: the DLC wants FEWER GAFFES
As well as the rank-and-file Democrats, and probably a bunch of people who work for Dean as well.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #59
64. Fewer gaffes, more empty leadership and rhetoric. nt
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #64
70. Cuz everyone knows...
Edited on Wed Jun-08-05 12:18 AM by LoZoccolo
...whatever makes the ragweeds feel good, obviously has to be good strategy.

Plus you can write the foreward to George Lakoff's book and not read it or follow much of anything in it if you hold a big-enough title.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #70
71. Yeah. Screw leadership. That never works.
Especially when the dirty whores in your own party are constantly sniping at you to tear you down.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #71
74. zzzz
:boring:
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:36 AM
Response to Reply #74
75. zzzzzzzz yourself. nt
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Writer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
60. If anything is hurting the Democratic Party, it's not Dean nor the DLC...
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 11:41 PM by Writer
it's our confusing pot-shot attacks for effective politics.

Writer.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-07-05 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
62. DEAD-FREAKING-ON.
Edited on Tue Jun-07-05 11:55 PM by BullGooseLoony
Awesome post, Capn.

This is their last gasp. They're losing influence because we're not begging for their money. I say BRING IT ON.
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Guaranteed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:00 AM
Response to Reply #62
66. Rec'd BTW. nt
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LibertyorDeath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
69. Dean is a true Democrat IMO
Anyone that has issues with the way he calls out rightards
can fuck off as far as I'm concerned.

When it comes to the repubs you gotta get down in the dirt if you want any chance of success.
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #69
96. Dean is "our man"...the others are "bought"
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paineinthearse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
73. Triplets
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 01:31 AM
Response to Original message
77. Permission to man the barricades, Sir!
This week, they tried to kill Dean's leadership. What a sorry bunch they are.

And how little any of us will miss their placating, collaborating @sses.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 03:46 AM
Response to Original message
83. PETITION IDEA: for the DLC...
YOU are not the spokespeople for our party:

who has experience circulating petitions? if so, take the idea and run with it. take the credit for all I care..
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LightningFlash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 04:05 AM
Response to Original message
84. We need to kick all of the DLC out, permanently.
Fire them for being greedy copouts. For years we let them dictate everything and became complacent, lazy, selfish.

Fire the DLC permanently and lead the charge for Howard Dean to make waves!!!!!
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hnsez Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 04:32 AM
Response to Original message
85. DLC = a party of mostly white christians
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lala_rawraw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
86. Dean, keep talking, you are honest...
And that is the only reason to speak anymore. Why is no one screaming that Ken M is a lying pack of crap who is living in the closet while prostituting gay marriage?

I think the shift needs to go back to Ken, no? Anyone feel like writing and posting?
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markus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
88. It's bigger than the DLC
It's all of the Beltway careerists who are sucking at the corporate teat. They don't want that apple cart upset.

I say it's time to tip the cart, take the damn apples and teh rhose, then burn the cart.

Come election time, the corporate centrists have no where else to go but the party. If they try to impose their radically centrist agenda and split the party, that would be a terrible miscalculation

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hnsez Donating Member (430 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #88
90. I'm so pissed I'm ready to riot, er tip the cart
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #88
93. "radically centrist" LOL. I like it!
:)
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Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
89. The DLC believes that THEY speak for the party...
...and had hoped that they could control Dean by putting him in the DNC chair. They didn't want him running for the WH...and now they're afraid that he might expose the corporate / government corruption.

The DLC fears Dean because they don't want the rank and file to have a say in the direction of the party.
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Lone_Wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
91. I hate the DLC and their little snide, passive aggressive comments....
Dean is one of the best things that has happened to the Democratic Party in the last few years.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
92. We are shrugging off the dead weight of the DLC
Thanks to Gov. Dean.

He is doing what he promised. He's working with and FOR the grassroots.

There is going to be a lot of tension but we need to keep our eye on the ball. We, the people, cannot hand our power over to corporate owned Dems.

The DLC faithful and the media have already given the Dem nomination to Hillary. They don't want the people to have a say in the nomination. I'm not saying it shouldn't be Hillary at this point, but I resent the king (or queen) making going on without our input.

It's a fight over control.
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Jose Diablo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-08-05 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
95. A phone call to the DLC
The Phone Call
Joe Satriani


"I got to talk to you, baby, set the record straight.
'Cause this relationship is goin' from love to hate.
You're always trying to make me do things that're really dumb,
And we're always disagreein' on how to have fun.

CHORUS:
And you know I don't want what you want,
I want what I want.

Well, you look like a yuppie, and that's too bad.
Yeah, it used to be funny, but now it's sad.
And your friends are all stupid and they talk too much,
And I'd feel a lot better staying out of touch.

CHORUS

You can say goodbye to me, honey.
You can say goodbye to my money.

Well, I'm sittin' here callin' from Tennessee,
And I've been jammin' with my buddies like I ought to be.
And it feels real good bein' on my own,
And I don't mind leaving you dry as bone.

CHORUS

Well, it's all over, it's just too late.
And I'm so glad we're living in different states.
You know I said it all before like I knew I should,
But you got nothing in your head but a block of wood.

CHORUS"
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