Can I set something straight?

[AUYellowDog]

I am a Democrat. I love the ideals that the Democratic Party stands for. I love freedom, equality, helping out those who are less fortunate. I also love having sound foreign policy and fiscal responsibility. There is no conflict with these views and having distaste for Dean. As a DNC chairman, he has an obligation to be partisan. It's his job. He needs to be good at fundraising and organization. He needs to stick to Democratic ideals, not slush politics. Character attacks, except in rare cases, ought not be used in politics. It needs to stay about the issues. We need to let independants and moderates know that we aren't the obstructionist party. Our sole purpose is not to try and look repubs look bad. Our purpose is to advance our agenda and convince the American people that we're right. Insulting religion goes beyond that and endangers our party and the values that we stand upon. Dean needs to back off of the insulting rhetoric and get to the issues. People don't give money to an organization so they can insult people. They donate money to get our great ideas passed in the legislature. That's what's critical, the ideas, not the personal attacks. Dean needs to learn that.

Brandon

[knowbody0]

1. that is your opinion

i love his fire

[Pepperbelly]

11. will a majority of voters agree with you?

So far, they haven't.

[PretzelWarrior]

13. what is Dean running for again?

oh yeah. NOTHING. He's breaking records in fundraising in an off year and the REFUCKLICANS can't stand it.

[knowbody0]

16. that would be according to msm spin only

[Pepperbelly]

19. no, it is a fact.

In 04, he made a very vigorous run at the Presidency and pulled up short of votes. So did they agree with him?

Some did but not enough to win.

[The Jacobin]

2. Can I ask you a question?

How many voters can name the RNC chair?

How many voters know that Dean is the RNC chair? How many voters know anything about Dean that the fact that he screamed at a speach?

The point is that crap don't matter. What matters is the Dean raises money and recruits candidates from the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party to run for office.

[AUYellowDog]

5. I'm guessing

that you mean Dean's the chair of the DNC. You'ld be suprised. I get asked alot down here how I can support Dean as the DNC chair. I support his views and issues (mostly). I can't defend his words though. I get asked about them alot and here in Alabama (a.k.a. conservative hell hole) he's a very well known man.

Brandon

[AmericanDream]

10. Dean is the RNC Chair? Gee, that is a heart-wrenching typo!

[Hippo_Tron]

29. Honestly, I'm a junkie, I can't name the new RNC chair

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

3. Ever been a karate tournement, Brandon?

Like an Open Tournament, where you get hit a LOT, and hard?

Your estimation on Gov. Dean might change.

[RC]

4. Playing nice doesn't work with these criminals.

They need to be called out on their bullshit, lies and crimes.

[Skink]

7. Kerry tried to play nice...

:freak:

[AUYellowDog]

8. If

Dean would do that, it would be nice. When he does it, it's great, but he's giving them too much extremist ammo. He's becoming the new Micheal Moore, and God save our party if they succeed in making him out to be that extreme.

Brandon

[Atman]

12. "God save our party if they succeed in making him out to be...extreme"

THEY are just throwing shit and seeing what sticks to the wall.

YOU are allowing them to succeed in making him out to be extreme.

DON'T LET THEM FRAME OUR MESSAGE, DAMMIT!

[AUYellowDog]

17. Sorry

But I'm a moderate Democrat, not quite as extreme as Dean. I came up with that conclusion on my own, not due to Faux News or Limbaugh.

Brandon

[Carla in Ca]

28. You seem to give his attackers a little more

credit than they deserve.

[PretzelWarrior]

6. who did he attack? isn't winning more important than "good form"

seems our country would be much better off if Gore or Kerry had gone ape-sh*t on their opponents and pummeled them with relentless character assassinations and outright lies.

This is what Bush did to both of them and he's still smoking ganga in Maryland while the WH is evacuated. He's still wearing the bomber jacket headed around the country to "talk social security"

Of course we need ideas. They are being created and stated. Who's COVERING the people that are saying them?

What about Chris Dodd's suggestion that removing the recent tax cuts on top wealthiest people could save the so-called social security crisis? That's an idea. How come no one is talking about that?

[Old and In the Way]

9. Much adieu over nothing.

Like a Republican has never insulted a Democrat. Big deal. The only reason this makes news is because it's a Democrat doing the insulting for a change.

My advice? Tell any whine and sleaze Republican who complains to get a thicker skin.

[Atman]

14. "Sometimes WRONG AND STRONG is better than WEAK AND RIGHT."

- William Jefferson Clinton.

[Dogmudgeon]

15. This is really a win-win situation for us

If the funders don't like the cut of Dean's jib, they will coalesce around another Democratic fund raiser. Appearantly a few of them are trying just that. Fine; let 'em. No harm, no foul -- but no risk, no rewards, either.

Most people do NOT identify the person as the living incarnation of the Party. If Dean is talking out of his nether end, then big deal. He can be replaced. But if Dean is saying That Which Must Be Said, then let him shout it from the rooftops.

This is what I don't understand about people who hate the DLC, too. They think that the Party has to be a one-way, single-philosophy cadre with iron discipline. Yet if you look at how the Right got its act together over the past 30 years, you'll see that four or five different, occasionally combative, political-philosophical cultures were organized for maximum impact.

The people who hate the Democrats are confirmed in their beliefs; the "soft critics" almost always complain that Democratic leaders are way too easy on their enemies. I say, let Howard Dean bloody a few noses (or pachyderm trunks, as the case may be); if he goes too far, well, we can reel him back in. Republicans-Lite, like Joe Lieberman, yet who are still loyal to the party, can mop up the mess and kiss the appropriate fannies.

There is no need for worry when it comes to Howard Dean. There's not much he can do that would be "wrong".

And, before I end -- the same thing applies to Hillary, Kerry, Gore, Big Dog, and the rest of the mutts in our national kennel. With diversity will come strength. I don't fear too many Republicans-Lite; I fear too few ass-chewers and firebrands.

--p!

[whatgives]

23. I say, let Howard Dean bloody a few noses (or pachyderm trunks, as the cas

Yes!!!!. Go Dean GO!!!

[jonnyblitz]

18. that sounds like the losing strategy DEMS have been practicing

all along. the other side doesn't follow these rules and that is why they always win. trying to kiss the ass of the assholes that hate our guts hasn't worked so far. it seems obvious to me...

[applegrove]

20. I agree we have to be a big tent and win hearts not insult people.

But if you tell the truth you are not insulting people. So Dean should have said something to the effect that long lines mean more to working people who have to budget to hire a babysitter while they vote than to people who are in management positions and have more options available to them - like waiting in line for hours.

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Catherine Vincent]

22. You need to lay off Dean and stop listening to the media whores out there.

[Eloriel]

24. What you're missing: Some have "characters" that need attacking

Pure and simple. No one else is doing it. Dean has a chance to get some press, and while I doubt that's why he's doing it, I hope no one succeeds in shutting him up.

[NEDem]

25. To some extent you have a valid point,

However, we've been 'playing nice' for a while now and look where it has got us. Its time to take the gloves off and start swinging back.

We don't need to learn to stick to the issues, that what we've been doing. We need to learn to get meaner, and nastier.

Do you think the pugs got the majorities they have now by being nice? Have to turned on AM radio lately? Have you watched cable news lately? All they do is character assassination, and they do it well. I used to agree with you, but I woke up a few years back. I say hit them with everything we've got.

[AUYellowDog]

27. I agree

I listen to Hannity and Limbaugh on the radio for laughs. My girlfriend gets pissed at me for listening to it because I'm either laughing at them or yelling at them. You (all DUers) should try listening to them for 1 week and you will notice that what they say is EXACTLY what you hear repubs on the street say within 48 hours. It's truly amazing, but it gives time to come up with a very nice rebuttal.

Brandon

[johnaries]

26. I don't think Dean insulted religion. I think he pointed out

the homogeneity of the Republican Party and the fact that they only represent one group of people. Whereas the Dems are a diverse party that speaks for MANY different groups.

That's my interpretation, anyway.

[Skittles]

30. we have played it clean for a long time and it is getting us nowhere

these evil neocon bastards are playing a rigged game.

[bklyncowgirl]

31. In the best of all possible worlds that would be true.

We do not live in the best of all possible worlds.

Democrats have been doing the things you suggest and they have been losing bigtime. If you allow the opposition to define who you are, you are going to lose.

It makes no sense to stick by the Marquis of Queensbury rules when your opponent is wearing brass knuckles and has bought off the referees.