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angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:19 AM
Original message
Honest question 2 Clark supporters only!
As one Clark supporter to another, how do you feel about all the sudden overtures from Dean supporters?

If Clark was where Kerry is now, do you honestly feel that they would be making these suggestions like a Dean/Clark tickets or pooling the resources together.

Please only Clark supporters answer this question.
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
1. I try not to wonder about it.
Edited on Sun Jan-25-04 12:22 AM by bhunt70
Everyone has their reasons as to why they throw their support behind someone, alliances are made and broken. Supporters of two people who didn't quite get along can conceivably band together to even things out and make a race of it.

Politics: It's like a big game of survivor.

edit-typo.
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angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. so alliances are made 2b broken?
like survivor?
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bhunt70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:32 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. no, Im just saying that they ARE broken.
Many could be temporary to suit a purpose, many could just end up going wrong, many could stick. It's just one of the options.

In the end we'll all hopefully support who the nominee is, and only one man will walk into the white house as president.
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Jerseycoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. How I feel about it
I'm all for watching each other's backs and unity as Dems. As far as joining up with any other campaign, that's for the General to decide, not me. I haven't participated and I won't.
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TexasPatriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. hrm
i guess i dont see many of them, since a lot of those folks are probably on my ignore. None of the people i knew that supported Dean still do - so I dont really have an opportunity to be lobbied. *shrug*
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angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. man, you are missing out
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pocoloco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:24 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think it's great, I havn't had any posts deleted or warnings
for a couple of days!!!
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mikehiggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
6. What overtures?
Postings on DU? They sure as hell don't mean squat. This is a discussion board, not a voting booth.

The Dean supporters and the Clark supporters have a lot in common, its true, but there is no way to overcome the basic fact that, ahem, in the end there can be only one.

As to where Kerry is right now? Ask me Wednesday morning.

Dean was king of the world before the caucuses started, and Kerry was barely showing up for the prom. Now Kerry is Queen of the Ball and Dean is sitting outside with a glass slipper wondering WTF.

February is a whole new dance ticket.

As to your questions more directly, I don't think the Dean folks would be so conciliatory and supportive if they still were the anointed ones who could not ever lose. And I don't think any overtures make any sense to us, or to them.

Battle on, Xena!
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NashVegas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. *coughs*
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knight_of_the_star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
10. That is for the General to decide
It's his campaign, if he wants to ally with Dean I'll still back him 100%, but I know that in the end there can be only one, and Wes has said in no uncertain terms that he will not play second banana to anyone.
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carpetbagger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
11. Dean's last statement about Clark was that he's a Republican.
As far as I'm concerned, I don't see Dean making any move towards Clark. I also happen to think that plotting amongst ourselves on a discussion board is pretty useless, so I don't know exactly what to say.

As for Dean's supporters joining our camp, welcome aboard!
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Quixote1818 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. Lets help one another until we don't have to any more
I do feel a kind of kinship with the Dean camp and I would like to have an alliance if it helps us get Kerry and Edwards out of the way then it becomes the best man wins. Seems cool to me.
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angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. U think dean is better
than Edwards and Kerry?
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kerry-is-my-prez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
14. We need the Dean supporters and we're getting a good share of them
Our candidates are both gutsy, outspoken and courageous - willing to speak out and take risks. THAT'S why they like our candidate. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth - I always say...

There are definitely things that bother me about Dean but also a lot of thing that really bother me about Kerry (he's very cautious and safe and has often shown himself as not willing to take the "brave" stances).

Edwards is also really "safe" - AND conservative to boot. He still calims that going to war in Iraq is the right thing to do.

I guess I would support Kerry after Clark, however, because he would have the best chance to beat Bush - and he is more Liberal than Dean. I would just pray that he would be "brave" enogh to fight against all the the PNAC nonsense and all the right wingers AND Congress. How do we know he's not going to roll over and play dead like he did during the 2000 election (caving in to Bush and telling us to stop "whining" about it).
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
15. I think it's a location issue: VT/MA vs VT/AR or vice versa
The ticket can't exclusively be from the NE and appeal to the rest of the country. That's why there won't be Kerry/Dean or vice versa.
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Beaker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:55 AM
Response to Original message
16. before you could have a Dean/Clark ticket-
you need to have a Dean ticket...and that ain't gonna happen.

It's in pretty piss-poor taste to be talking about possible running mates until you know that you're in the race to start with.

I really feel the most sorry for Al Gore- what was he thinking, endorsing a candidate before a single vote had been cast??
where's his credibility now?
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 12:56 AM
Response to Original message
17. Here is my hit
Supporters of both candidates might have some influence over who either would want to pick for the VP slot, but I am under no illusions in that regard. It is not "our" decision to make. Furthermore the candidates themselves have to decide if they would consider the number two slot, not us.

Second, we are no where near that bridge yet that anyone should or will consider crossing it, For the moment, I think it is not an issue, it is a convenient way for supporters of one candidate to express regards for the other, at this point.

Third, for our current purposes, and I mean "our" to include Dean supporters, in my opinion it doesn't matter so much what mean things may have been said by Dean or Clark supporters in the past. We have been hurting each other's candidates and the Democratic Party via flame wars. It had to stop.

Fourth, groups break down into individuals, so I can't say everyone would have acted one way or another. My gut answer is, adversity is causing a number of people to recognize previously obscured common ground and mutual respect.

Dean was in this thing a lot longer than Clark. Therefor Dean supporters, for the most part, have been in it longer than Clark supporters. We were relatively new arrivals competing for much the same space. It is human nature for some animosity to spring forth in reply. My sense is that since many Dean supporters deeply believe in their man, and because Dean ran an insurgency campaign for most of the build up to the primaries, there was an immediate suspicion that Wes was set up to challenge Dean by Party regulars who were unhappy with the success Dean was having. The modest relationship between Clark and Clinton became natural grist for that mill.

Clark supporters, given that we took a lot of time getting to know our man just like Dean supporters did with Dean, knew full well that wasn't the case. We know where Clark's heart is. We knew all along what many are only coming to understand and appreciate recently, that Clark is on our side, he really is alarmed by the direction this country is heading, he is an independent thinker with sincere convictions and progressive instincts who believes in serving his nation. But many people who already were backing other candidates were highly suspicious of Wes. While I am tempted to fault them for not taking the time to understand Clark, I really do understand how and why people might have been suspicious of him.

Likewise, the lack of acceptance for Clark by activists in other campaigns, and Dean had most of them, angered many of us who felt, rightfully so, that Clark was being slandered. Meanwhile Dean was getting beat up on by virtually every campaign other than Clark's. We all felt like we had a right to have a chip on our shoulders.

I am quite pleased that more of Dean's supporters (some always did I know) now are recognizing that there is much to admire about Wesley Clark. I don't want to hold grudges on this score, they are pointless. Clark has come under withering Right Wing fire and he has held his ground and won respect from many who previously doubted. That's a good thing. Meanwhile there has sincerely been more sympathy for Dean of late by Clark supporters, it was painful in particular to watch how the media jumped all over Dean after that night in Iowa. There is a lot of commonality in the idealism found in the two corresponding grass roots movements. I think that is a quality shared more by Clark and Dean supporters than by anyone else. Kucinich has a grass roots movement also of course, but they get to be the purists, while our two groups focus more on what will it take to get Bush out of office, though sometimes we disagree on what that might be.

So I think circumstances pushed us toward cooperation, but it is not unnatural that we do so now. Mostly I think we can help each other most by establishing a respectful cross campaign tone. We might be able to cooperate in the area of a "media watch" and complimentary truth squad activities. We can reinforce the shared campaign themes of each of our men, so that they are more likely to be heard and treated with respect. And maybe, because of this positive turn of events, more of us will be able to work closely together in the Fall campaign and even possibly beyond. I find it all encouraging.

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angee_is_mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. I just do not get it!
so Clark supporters should band with Dean supporters to be media watchdogs?

I admire Dean's grassroots organization, but look how it turned out for him in Iowa. Now people are saying that the caucus was fixed so that Dean would fail and the media was to blame? Give me a break!!!!

Clark can help dean, while dean can hurt Clark is my feelings on the matter. Now the way Edwards and DK made an alliance in Iowa was masterful and everyone got something out of it.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:49 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. How about this then
On top of what I already said. For the most part I think Clark supporters believe Clark will be a viable candidate longer than Dean, and vice versa. One group is going to turn out to be right, it is doubtful this race will make it deadlocked to the convention. If we are on improved terms, not only will we not be tearing each other down, to the benefit of Kerry, or Edwards, or whoever, but he who lasts longest will be better positioned to win the active support and loyalty of most supporters of he who doesn't. I'm not talking about a formal deal between the candidates, just a more hospitable atmosphere between the backers, that will make it easier for people to potentially work together on the same campaign someday.

Neither candidate runs any risk of "hurting" themselves. This isn't directly between our candidates, so it doesn't reflect on them for good or ill. I don't know if you have noticed, but the real trolls on this site are looking much more naked trying to do their dirty work without a whole bunch of fired up partisans willing to jump in and follow their leads. I like it.
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countmyvote4real Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-04 01:56 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Nicely brokered. What are you running for? Seriously, that was great!
I find it encouraging, too.
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