"Stop Crying in Your Teacups" or why I won't vote for Kerry.

[kaitykaity]

He was on the "move on, get over it" side of the
2000 election. :grr::mad::grr:

http://makethemaccountable.com/podvin/more/040124_StopCrying.htm

1/24/04
“STOP CRYING IN YOUR TEACUPS”
By David Podvin

“Stop crying in your teacups. It isn’t going to change. Get over it.”

That was the response of John Kerry to a liberal who condemned the theft of the presidency by George W. Bush. If the sentiment sounds familiar, that’s because it isn’t original. Kerry borrowed his words from America’s vapid conservative posse for whom chanting the phrase “Get over it” constitutes a dazzling display of wit.

Plagiarizing witticisms from Ann Coulter is not an endearing trait for a potential Democratic presidential nominee. It is one thing for liberals who are still incensed about the stolen election to be treated contemptuously by right wing banshees – it is an entirely different matter to incur such disdain from a man who seeks to be our champion.

But it is not unusual for Kerry to parrot the Republicans or be dismissive of liberal concerns. When members of the Congressional Black Caucus approached the senator for his support in challenging the Jim Crow tactics that subverted the 2000 presidential election, he told them to go away.

Kerry supported the Iraq War Resolution, either because he really believed Bush’s transparent lies (in which case he is not very bright) or because it was the politically shrewd thing to do (in which case he is not very honorable). Whatever the reason, there was no profile in courage from this Massachusetts senator.

When Bush and John Ashcroft used the terrorist attack on America as an excuse to confiscate civil liberties with the USA Patriot Act, it was Russ Feingold – not John Kerry – who rose with a stirring defense of American liberty. Kerry sided with the Republicans.

[madmax]

1. I forgot about that.

Thank you for refreshing my memory. Hmmm...teacups, eh.

[Dagaz]

2. So who will you vote for?

[Langis]

3. Bush I guess

[kaitykaity]

27. You guess wrong.

But then again, the level of intelligence in this post
is truly astonishing.

Where do you think you are, Free Republic?

[styersc]

48. You're correct.

Don't forget 2000.

Don't move on.

Re-elect Bush.

Four more years.
Four more years.
Four More years.

[kaitykaity]

53. One does not follow the other.

Also, Bush was not 'elected' so stop saying 're-elect'.

The sElection of George W. Bush was a crime against
democracy, not just Al Gore and the Democratic Party.
To suggest that we move on from our motivating force
is to suggest that we are as morally bankrupt and
politically corrupt as the conservatives.

Count every vote, and every vote counts. Thinking
like you, putting expediency above principle . . .
I could never do that. But that's just me.

[Walt Starr]

58. There will certainly be lots of third party choices

All kinds of them.

[wtmusic]

4. I respect Kerry

for fighting with bravery in 'Nam, for his stand on environmental issues.

Then I read this and think he's just out to lunch. :shrug:

[cindyw]

EHHHHHHHH. Podvin is quoting Kerry out of context.

Kerry was one of Gore #1 supporters during the 2000 election. The speech where he said this was a speech about going from angry to active. It is like in football when someone is tackled and the coach yells " stop your crying and show me how you fight back. Move on and score a touchdown". Kerry is known for saying "don't get mad, get even".

[Loren645]

16. Can you give us the context cindyw? Don't suppose you know source/link?

'Cause I recall Kerry being supportive of Gore too, so this
sounds odd. Thanks.

[Loren645]

23. No, Kerry said this last July. He meant - "Get over it."

"TACOMA -- In harm's way long ago as a gunboat officer in the Mekong Delta of Vietnam, Sen. John Kerry still has an instinct for danger as well as a seeming relish for being under fire.
...
"I'm going to ask Americans to judge me by the fights I've picked," added Kerry, whose fights to win and hold his Massachusetts Senate seat have pitted him against the toughest foes the Bay State has to offer. Kerry was tiptoeing on Sunday, but did go into how liberals shoot themselves in the foot.
...
He is impatient with Democratic oratory about the "stolen" election. "Stop crying in your teacups," he told one audience. "It isn't going to change. Get over it."


Then there's this nugget:

"He makes no apologies for the vote last fall to give authorization for military action against Iraq. "My vote was the right vote," he argued. "Saddam Hussein had to be held accountable for disarming.""

Lovely.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/connelly/129019_joel02.html

[cindyw]

31. He also says never forget.

I will repeat, it was meant in the context of challenging the audience to stop bitching and start acting. Notice how he said, It wont change. When Repubs say this, they mean, get over it, Bush won, nener nener. Kerry was saying. Get off your butt and kick theirs.

[cindyw]

34. Here

As for the 2000 election, no I just remember.

As for the context I have no link to a speech, I've just had so many conversations on this one with people who know the context. I trust those people. Beyond this I know Kerry's themed so well and he often says that we cannot forget and we must not get mad, get even.

[Samantha]

33. Now this is exactly why I have said for three years I will never vote for

Kerry.

It was immediately following the vote of the Electoral College in 2000. As he walked down the steps, a reporter from CNN asked him if he had been asked to sign the petition of the Congressional Black Caucus. "No, I wasn't asked to sign the petition, but I wouldn't have signed had I been asked." I was shocked that any Democrat would have made such a politically insensitive remark, rubbing salt into the wound. As soon as he said it, though, I knew why: He intended to run in 2004 and he thought he could beat an incumbent Bush* as opposed to taking on an incumbent Gore.

Personally, I understand there is a lot of competition between politicians when it comes to rising on the political ladder. What I don't understand is how anyone could totally agree with 51 million votes being negated and remain silent on the issue in the interest of promoting their own political future. This is what Kerry did. Kerry is all about Kerry. He bet no one would remember this incident by 2004. After all, the 2000 election would not be an issue in 2004. Remember?

This is the first time my vote has ever not been counted. I cannot imagine why anyone would think I would forget about it come the next election. Anyone who did not stand up for my right to vote in Election 2000 should not ask for it now.

[sleipnir]

5. What do you expect him to say about a fellow Bonesman?

Really, he's talking about his "own" here, Bonesmen from Yale. I don't see this as being out of line with Kerry's policies. I can only wait until we can choose between the Bonesman on the Left and the Bonesman on the Right.

[George_Bonanza]

6. Uh, even Gore has said get over it, and Kerry was a big Gore supporter

Very unique, yet another Kerry bash thread. I guess all of us Dean, Clark, and Kerry supporters are all united in one way.

[Beaker]

7. at this point, we SHOULD get over it...BE over it-

We should be focussed 100% on the 2004 election, and let go of the 2000 election if we haven't already- Al Gore certainly has.
2002 was not all that great for Democrats nationwide- so it seems that by then most of the voters were "over" 2000 as well.

the Election of 2000 is history, and hopefully, after november 2004, it will be ancient history, an ugly and forgettable chapter in the u.s. presidency.

[sandnsea]

8. People have moved on

They're fighting back and turning out in droves. Which is exactly what he meant and what he said in the rest of the speech.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[kaitykaity]

30. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever.

I want the criminals who engineered the coup
and benefited from it punished for their crimes
against democracy.

(I'm sending an alert on this, just so you know.)

[LBJBestEver]

10. Cool, give Bush another free vote because of an ARTICLE.

[JohnKleeb]

11. Attention Kerry supporters

Give me an PM, I think we should collebarte on article on why we support him.

[Loren645]

12. What date did he say that? How long after the coup?

Just wondering...

[oasis]

13. "Get over it" Is that what you'll say when the Supreme Court is packed

with Bush appointees?

[Cocoa]

14. MakeThemAccountable freaks me out

that site smells to me like disinfo, like the anti-Bush stuff is a facade. And I've noticed a borderline antisemitic tone there as well.

This article is pretty bad, it has some bad info, particularly about judicial nominations. Didn't Podvin notice the filibusters? Didn't Kerry participate in those? Aren't those filibusters the thing that drove the GOP to engage in the risky spying behavior that may damage them gravely? Why doesn't Podvin mention any of this?

[Loren645]

15. That's a pretty strong charge. What columns have been antisemetic?

Please.

[Cocoa]

18. sorry, I got my websites mixed up

I was confusing MakeThemAccountable.com with WhatReallyHappened.com.

I just looked over MakeThemAccountable and it looks like a normal site that links to leftist articles, nothing freaky about it.

However, I think this Podvin article has bad info about Kerry.

[Loren645]

20. That's a relief. Thanks very much CoCoa.

I don't mean to drive you crazy, but could you please expand on
what the bad info about Kerry is? You said you thought he
filibustered against the RW judicial nominees. Did he?

What about the other stuff Podvin says?

[Cocoa]

22. all but a handful of dem senators filibustered

it was a partisan showdown, even Lieberman joined in, only the usual DINO suspects, Breaux, etc., broke ranks.

The rest follows the same pattern: list some bad things, and blame the wrong people, blame Kerry instead of Bush.

This tactic is used against Daschle a whole lot. There is legitimate criticism to be made of Daschle, but there's also a lot of criticism of this type that Podvin is doing with Kerry.

[Loren645]

25. Thanks again Cocoa.

Appreciate it.

[sleipnir]

21. Yes, Thank you...

[sleipnir]

17. That's a rather heavy charge, please back it up.

I hope you can provide evidence to the contrary. It's some serious ground you're treading on, with the evidence you suggest.

[SheilaT]

19. Not to mention he voted

for the IWR. And for No Child Left Behind. And I believe he didn't show up to vote to protect overtime. Most of his money comes from corporate donors. This is Business As Usual Inside the Beltway Kerry.

[Loren645]

26. In fairness, I think the overtime vote wasn't close enough for his vote

to have mattered. I assume he'd have been there if it was.

[SheilaT]

52. His vote did mattered.

It's a case of not standing up for what's right.

[jsw_81]

24. Gore himself said that we should move on and focus on 2004

So what's the problem?

[George_Bonanza]

28. Yes, exactly

[Loren645]

29. A few problems:

I don't like the fact that Kerry used the Pug's sneering dismissive phrase "get over it."

I don't like how contemptuous his tone was (is?) against someone in the crowd that dared to nurse a grudge against a niggling little thing like a stolen election. Maybe a real leader could have given a more uplifting response.

I don't think Gore is the best role model for dealing
with stolen elections. He told us he heard our voices and wouldn't
forget. Then he failed to ever mention or address the very black
voter disenfranchisement that led to the stolen election.
Not a good "lead" to follow.

[George_Bonanza]

32. The man was a prime fighter for Gore in 2000

Does that all count for naught because he happened to use a very common phrase when indicating that we should look beyond certain past matters?

[Samantha]

36. I think you are thinking about former Senator Bob Kerrey

John Kerry was pretty silent during the election controversy. He had been on Gore's short list for vice presidents and didn't make the final cut. I think he was pretty bitter. So when Gore got in trouble, Kerry was scarce, except following the vote of the Electoral College. See above post for more detail.

[Kipepeo]

37. Um , yeah

This is another reason why I don't trust Kerry and why I think my vote for him would be a vote for Bush----lite.

Get over it????? Get over a STOLEN election in the USA? Read Bugliosi's book on the theft of the Presidency. And he's not even a liberal, like Kerry wants to pretend to be.

Edited to add: Or watch "Counting on Deomcracy" (http://www.itvs.org/countingondemocracy/) which many PBS stations didn't want you to see. Or watch "Unprecedented" (http://www.unprecedented.org/) which NO ONE wanted you to watch. Where is Kerry on this now???

[Cheswick2.0]

42. He didn't do shit for Gore in 2000

Once on CNN when on the same show as some republican "strategist" he defended Gore. That was the sum total of his contribution.

[jsw_81]

35. What about Clark?

He voted for Nixon and Reagan, spoke at a GOP fundraiser as recently as '01, praised Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld for their "terrific" leadership, and now supports a flag-burning amendment.

So you'll have to excuse me if I follow Gore's lead instead of Clark's.

[kaitykaity]

38. Does that mean you've voting for Howard Dean?

Cuz that's who Gore endorsed in this thing.

[tkmorris]

40. Horsehockey

Gore HAS to say that. It doesn't actually mean we should do it or even that he wants us to. I seriously cannot believe the number of people around here who have forgotten WHAT DROVE THIS SITE TO BE CREATED IN THE FIRST FUCKING PLACE!!!!!!!!

[Cheswick2.0]

43. Gore then endorsed Dean

[drfemoe]

39. and more ..

..."Siding with Bush on the theft of the election, supporting an illegal war, gutting the Bill of Rights, voting to confirm extremist judges, and misusing education money to buy favorable news coverage for Bush comprise a track record that is unlikely to inoculate nominee Kerry from a crippling third party challenge. His record of accommodating the Republicans will prevent him from easily moving to the middle - where elections are won - because a significant number of liberals will hesitate to throw their support behind a candidate who has so frequently abandoned them. "...

[Cheswick2.0]

41. I have never forgotten this

I have also not forgotten "I wasn't asked to go to florida for the recount and I wouldn't have gone anyway" (paraphrase).
I know that doesn't bother some people but it does bother me. He didn't fight for my vote in 2000, why should I vote for him now? The only senators who I remember going to Florida and fighting for Gore were Harkin and Wellstone. Tragically Wellstone is gone, but Harkin has endorsed Dean.

[drfemoe]

44. Frankly

I'm unconvinced that John Kerry wants to replace gw. But if that's who the Democrats want :shrug:

[blm]

45. Taken out of context . The Dems applauded Kerry who were at the event.

They gave him an ovation for his words. he was telling them to get to work.

It was internet message boards who twisted the words out of meaning.

http://www.thestate.com/mld/state/5635691.htm

"Presidential candidate John Kerry attempted Monday to light a fire under a lethargic Democratic Party that he said had gotten lazy the past few years.
"Addressing party activists at a luncheon at Claflin University, the Massachusetts senator urged the party faithful to go out and fight for their beliefs.

"'The way to do it is to get mad, to get angry, to get active, to get out there and get off your ...,' he said to prolonged cheers, without completing the thought. 'Get going.'

"Kerry's sermonette was prompted by a questioner dismayed by the outcome of the 2000 presidential election won by George W. Bush and the drubbing Democrats took in the 2002 election. "Bush lost the popular vote to Democrat Al Gore, but captured the electoral vote after the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in the GOP's favor by denying a vote recount in Florida.

"'Just because the Supreme Court made the wrong decision in 2000 doesn't mean we have to live with it for the next six years,' Kerry said."
>>>>>>

[robbedvoter]

46. Never forgot about that. "They didn't ask me" he said after not

voting against the electoral votes in Florida in 2001. (No senator did, but kerry needed to add insult to injury). I asked!

My Dear John letter to him - with all the trimmings:
http://www.forclark.com/story/2004/1/12/18163/7302

[robbedvoter]

47. "At least I am not French" - another one Podvin missed

After being needled by wingnuts "that he looks French" he quipped at a St Patrick's Day parade: "I may not be Irish, but at least I am not French"
That's why brokaw asked him at the debate: "What do you think about the French?"
"Tha French are the French" "What does that mean?" "What I just said"

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

49. Not now, not ever.

Kerry should not even be considered as a nominee for president as a Democrat after his shameless vote for war.

His vote for that "war" cancelled any chance of his getting mine.

[curse10]

50. I can't wait for Kerry to get the nomination

then people will either be eating humble pie or forced to leave the board. Either way, I'm happy.

And on edit, this is a dupe. One Dean supporters have put up here umpteen times now.

[Iverson]

51. sorry, you have to support those things

It's written down somewhere. I'll see if I can find it.

Oh yeah, and if you don't, then you must be supporting Bush or, worse still, the Greens.

sound effects: Tocatta and Fugue in D minor

[cindyw]

54. Addressed in December in Truthout

http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/122203A.shtml

" WRP: In terms of the 2004 campaign, the central argument put up by a lot of people in the Democratic base who are against you is that you don’t “get it.” They see other candidates as fighting for their progressive values, and they see you saying “Get over it” after the election debacle in Florida, as quoted by the Seattle Post-Intelligencer. In contrast, your voting record in the Senate is clearly as progressive as the day is long. Where do you stand with the progressive community? Do you “get it”? Can you be their leader?


  JK: I believe that I am the most consistent, most accomplished progressive fighter in this entire field. My record over 35 years of standing up and fighting for progressive causes is clear on with respect to women, with respect to the environment, with respect to children, education, health care, our role in the world, human rights, civil rights. My record is stronger, longer and deeper than any other candidate in this field with respect to the progressive agenda of this party.


  When I say “Move on” from 2000, I’m as angry as anyone else. Votes ought to be counted. But my objective is to win. My objective is “Don’t get mad, get even.” They way you get even is to go out and take that agenda to the country and build a coalition around it. I think if you compare my record to the people in this field, I think it’s clear that I am the progressive candidate. I am the one who has stood up and taken the risks and fought for the agenda of my party with consistency."

[bigtree]

55. Thanks cindyw

and Will.

[rocktivity]

56. And what's YOUR excuse, Mr. Podvin???

Kerry supported the Iraq War Resolution, either because he really believed Bush’s transparent lies (in which case he is not very bright) or because it was the politically shrewd thing to do (in which case he is not very honorable).

Geez, talk about victim-blaming!

rocknation

[eleanor1]

57. You're under the misimpression that Podvin is a corporate media

flack. This is absolutely incorrect. His work appears virtually entirely on the Internet, only on strongly left-leaning sites (mainly MakeThemAccountable). If you took a moment to review his work before shooting your mouth off, you'd see that he needs no "excuse" whatever. He's been consistently 100% against Bush, & against the Iraq war, from the very start.