Is the MSM trying to set up Dems by saying "everyone knew Bush lied?"

[suziedemocrat]

Suddenly the MSM are all saying that they knew all along that Bush was lying about WMD and his case for war in Iraq. Andrea Mitchell said that a person would have had to be brain dead not to know Bush was lying. I just think it's odd how suddenly every pundit acts like it was a given that Bush was lying. I am a total news junkie and I don't remember ever hearing that from a pundit until this last week. And the way they are all saying the same lines at the same time??? It seems to me that reporters would have an ethical responsibility to investigate the lies if they suspected them, and to report the lies if they knew about them.

Is this a way to spread the blame for Iraq to all Dems who voted for the war? Is this a way of saying - clearly the Dems were in on it with Bush because we all knew he was lying?

If that is what they are saying - I think they are wrong. It is not enough for reporters and pundits to know Bush was lying. It is not even enough for congress to know Bush is lying. The American public must know!! Bush made his case for the Iraq war to the American public - not congress or the press. The admin was telling us all to buy duct tape and flashlights and bottled water. They were scaring the hell out of the American people.

Most politicians feel some responsibility to go along with the wishes of their constituents. I'm sure many Dems felt if they went against the war in Iraq, they would have to field endless calls to complain about their vote. Many may have felt they would not have been re-elected and their seat would go to a "true" republican who would trash social security and everything thing else they could think of. Congress does have a certain responsibility to represent the public's wishes. Since Dems in Congress did not come up with the idea to invade Iraq, and most did not try to sell the war to the American people - they are not conspirators in this crime. Many trusted the President too much. Many more felt the public would never forgive them for going against the President.

IF the press had reported some of their (now so widely reported) misgivings about Iraq - I'm sure many in congress would have felt they had some justification for their vote against the war. Maybe they could have quoted these respected journalists in their letters to constituents who were angry because they voted against the war. Maybe they just would have felt justified in asking for an honest debate about the necessity of this war. The world might be a very different place if a few editors, reporters, or pundits had let the public in on what they "knew."

[prodigal_green]

1. It's a way for them

to cover their own asses for not asking any hard questions prior to the war.

[abluelady]

31. The MSM Failure

It is obvious that the MSM has failed big time! We live in an age where nobody wants to take responsibility for themselves. If the media had been doing their job, there would be no war in Iraq right now. The majority of Americans get their news from TV. If the TV had been saying what we knew was true, people would have been against the war. Maybe the pundits did know all the lies but they sure as hell weren't saying it out loud.

[Tesla]

42. here we go!

[otohara]

128. We Didn't Fail

Largest protests in the history of the planet....and the media ignored us, Bush/Blair ignored the world.

The media failed to tell the truth.

[ooglymoogly]

76. they are now trotting out dick gephardt every 15 min or so

parroting the gop line "there is nothing new here" roight

[WillyT]

83. Yes... Gephardt In Retirement (When He Has Nothing To Lose)...

is TRULY a disappointment!

Course... some of these guys, on both sides of the aisle, do not have the constitutional make-up to EVER admit they were wrong!!!

Assholes!

:mad:

[FredStembottom]

85. I went off Gephardt years and years ago when he refused to stop NAFTA

He had the power to stop it.....and didn't. Then he went right on riding the "friend of unions" thing as if nothing had happened!:puke:

Some Democrats...just aren't!

[orleans]

89. i think when msm says they knew the administration was lying

all along, it is just their excuse to not cover the story at this point (so they can stay focused on really important national news like the missing girl in Aruba and michael jackson)

and if it is true that they knew the administration was lying then WHY THE HELL DIDN'T THEY CALL THEM ON IT! instead of spreading propaganda.

(they are so totally full of shit--they didn't know shit and now they're too scared to try and report on it--the knew it all along defense is their way of dismissing the topic)

and Aruba is getting a bit old. maybe they should dig up some news about how the house arrest is going for martha stewart.

[personman]

127. I couldn't agree more.

If it wasn't for the MSM Bush might not have got into office in the first place, and he sure as hell wouldn't have been reelected. Losing the 2004 election (assuming we actually lost, but regardless, it should not have even been CLOSE) was one of the bigger things screaming "the media isn't doing its job" to me.

[Safe as Milk]

61. If we're looking for a simple phrase...

...to describe a reaction to the amalgam of comment from the MSM that anyone with any sense already knew that Bush was, is, and will be lying, it's this: the MSM are responsible for "lies of omission".

If the MSM, in aggregate, are stating in a metacommunicative context, that Bush, of course, is full of lies, they have to admit, one and all, that they failed in their roles as agents of freedom of the press by not DIRECTLY communicating to the US public that Bush was, is, and will be lying. The Washington Post is especially egregious in this kind of duplicity in complying with the White House's view that the DSM and associated documents are "old news". This kind of comments smacks of elitism and irrelevance. Rather than report the news, they filter

Bob Woodward's grown soft in the belly.

[LightningFlash]

2. It's the corporate media's final strawman.

Just like the final strawman for election fraud is: Democratic exuberant responders. The INTERVIEWERS deliberately went out and skewed the exit polls to favor Kerry!!!!

It's now considered COMMON knowledge that the Bush admin. lied and so that's what they are reporting everywhere!!!!!! But they KNEW, and they can't DENY they knew so the question you should be asking all of them is this.

"If its always been common knowledge that the bush admin lied, and we were thrown into this war, for what reasons and WHY did you not report it?"

And of course their answers will come down to saying...

"Well...Because we were told not to, it would have hurt america."

Of which you must blast them to HELL and back for because...

"GUESS WHAT'S ALREADY HURT AMERICA THE MOST, ASSHOLES!!!!"

There was absolutely NO contrivable reason, under any circumstances, that the CORPORATE MEDIA could NOT report the case was thin for war and we should not go to war. NO reason!!!!! They are COMPLICIT therefore in treason, and covering up for massive MURDER!!!!!!

Scream your heads off at them!!!! Some of them deserve full and well to be put in jail!!!!! If they had ever REPORTED the truth, we might have not ever MADE this colossal mistake!!!!! And their hands are now all covered in blood.....LYING, COMPLICIT, and TRAITOR filled media!!!!!!

Nail them to the wall and don't back down. :thumbsdown:

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :nuke:

[suziedemocrat]

3. Right - Next they'll say "everyone knew the 2004 election was rigged."

No story - common knowledge - what's the problem??

[teryang]

4. Then why did Andrea Mitchell repeat the lies?

Why doesn't she just say, "I'm a liar too. I lied to help the neo-cons and their corporate fascist supporters to go to war to help a regime conceived in fraud and consolidated in the blood of aggression."

[Aviation Pro]

35. Gee....

...I wonder how she like being married to a geriatric, old fart who probably screams, "oh, baby, I love it when I tie my interest rate to your price index," during sex.

[CTyankee]

105. Looking at him I somehow think

that sex for him is a thing of the past. Sorry, just had to say that!

[Knight of Ni]

136. Yeah, the only ones getting screwed are us!!!!

N/M

[Ken Burch]

124. Could it be that her hubby...Alan somebody or other...got her to say that?

[OneTwentyoNine]

5. Sounds like Enron BS double speak to me....

When Enron collapsed instead of placing the blame squarely where it belonged on Ken Lay and his group of Corporate crooks they blamed the share holders.

Yep,they were all greedy bastards who just kept buying Enron stock hoping to get rich but got burnt. Never mind that Ken Lay LIED continuously about the financial condition of Enron all the way up to the day the deck of cards came down.

[bklyncowgirl]

6. Yup.

The Bush Administration wanted this war.

Many Democrats were afraid to oppose Bush who was wildly popular at the time

Many in the news media wanted this war and, with a few honorable exceptions, failed to ask tough questions or to report anything that would discredit the administration.

There's plenty of blame to go around and plenty of accessories to the crime.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

7. Which begs the question.... is America at times... run by criminals? eom.

[Moochy]

54. BFEE

It's not called the BFEE for nothing ? :)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

58. Then, they hate us for our evil squatters and usurpers. eom.

[w13rd0]

20. And WHY was he popular?

I REMEMBER September 10th. That's right, September 10th. I REMEMBER Bush was NOT popular, at ALL. I remember that investigations into the fraud that occurred in Florida were due to come out. I remember that Bush couldn't get much accomplished, and had to spend all his "political capital" on getting the kickbacks for his friends. I REMEMBER SEPTEMBER 10th!

They keep telling me "everything changed". I agree, but I REMEMBER. The media stopped asking questions, the people stopped paying attention, the Congress stopped doing its job.

Bush was widely reported to have wanted war before he was even put into office by the felonious five. "Fuck Saddam, we're taking him out."

Let's start with Iraq, but let's keep moving. Let's follow the threads all the way back to September 10th, before "everything changed". And let's keep unravelling this "sweater", this straight jacket that's wrapped around us all. Let's keep going, to January 2001, to December 2000. And let's go back farther, let's go back all the way to Reagan and his Mujahadeen Day. Hell, let's go back to Nixon, where most of these damned sons a bitches got their start.

Go back into the archives and watch Rumsfelds performances in the late 60s, with the "a communist under every rock" bullshit. And not only do we need to excize these foul vermin from every seat of power, we need to assure that their protege and students never have opportunity to manipulate the people of the world.

[getmeouttahere]

65. Fantastic post, w13rd0...you probably won't see this....

but just wanted to let you know that I appreciated your comments. Frankly, I'm beyond the point of caring whether the MSM reports anything besides car chases & runaway brides. What it all comes down to for me is that until more Americans start caring about things that happen beyond their own front yard (or front door, for that matter) no amount of politicking, real reporting or dissent on our part will change anything. So much of this country is so apathetic that it's going to take tremendous personal pain for these people to wake up. Yes, by then it may be too late, but that's where we're headed. Of course, we should continue to try to spread the word about the awful deeds of BushCo, but I think it's a waste of time to continually speculate on why BushCo does these things, and how the MSM will spin them. It's just one more fire that BushCo is starting to distract us from our work.

[Fire Walk With Me]

120. Mmm, they NEEDED everything to change, eh?

They definitely have that benefit, at this time.

[The Backlash Cometh]

8. The only way you can fight this...

is to go over the old news archives and find clips from Andrea Mitchell, and others like her, before we went into Iraq. Show them as they were when they were complicitly helping Bush lie to the American people. Then, ask the hard questions. Why should we believe them today? How do they feel helping Bush take 1700 American soldiers to their death? Why shouldn't they be fired for assisting treason?

[EFerrari]

9. I wish I were a film maker. I'd take the Dim Son's declaration

of jihad in our national cathedral, and splice in those bubbly "news reports" during the run up with the flag splashed all over them and the military marching music, juxtaposed to Scott Ritter and Hans Blix and all the others who questioned and challenged and were ignored.

[suziedemocrat]

10. Hey - let's make a documentary DVD - I've got Final Cut Pro!!

[The Backlash Cometh]

11. Wouldn't it be nice ...

If there was somewhere on the net, a library of media clips that were public domain so that we amateur movie-makers could easily make our own documentaries? Imagine being able to pick and choose clips from the biggies before and after the Iraq war - a la carte.

[EFerrari]

17. We have some awesome video researchers here.

dzika can find ANYTHING, and I bet there are others that I don't know yet.

[EFerrari]

15. It would be so easy. As secretive and controlling as the Cabal

is, they can't control unintended consequences.

Wouldn't it be great to shoot the thing and just send it out?

Someone did that with the Conyers hearings in Ohio. The impact was considerable. People who didn't understand what I meant about the vote watched the clip and got it, right away.

[Conker]

49. That's a good idea.

It's not just Bush's fault for several deaths in Iraq, but also the media's fault.If we do try to ask the media hard questions, it will be a hard fight.

[muchacho]

153. MSM is to blame

The theo-cons wanted to blame Newsweek for riots and American deaths, I say we carry through with the logic the MSM are responsible, compliant with the Bushies, for ALL the unnecessary deaths in Iraq.

[sybil]

145. Bush committed treason.

And the American press is complicit.

"An able, disinterested, public-spirited press, with trained intelligence to know the right and courage to do it, can preserve that public virtue without which popular government is a sham and a mockery. A cynical, mercenary, demagogic press will produce in time a people as base as itself."
-- Joseph Pulitzer

[Island Blue]

12. WTF?

What has happened to this country when the only place on television we can get real news is on a fake news program like The Daily Show? I am at a loss for words when considering how low the MSM has sunk in such a short time. Thank God for the Internets. Where would we be without them?

[tavalon]

24. Welcome to the land of the reality based community

Island Blue. Welcome to DU!

[Warren Stupidity]

32. welcome!

And technically there is only one 'internet' as it is the 'network of networks'.

What happened, as you will learn here, is that the Cabal now has almost total control of the main stream media. We are in a situation much like that of the more traditional totalitarian regimes of the last century, where control of broadcast media is used to brainwash the people through an endless stream of coordianted lies, half truths, and distortions. Unlike classic fascism, our version likes to keep the gloves off and the mechanisms of control hidden. It is fascism-lite, fascism with a friendly face, New Improved Kinder Gentler Fascism, at least until we manage to pose an actual threat to their continued existence.

[CJCRANE]

46. "The Internets" is a Bushism

and now standard DUspeak (just like "morans" instead of "morons").

[Warren Stupidity]

48. oops

that would make me a moran! :blush:

[NMDemDist2]

131. nobody can keep up with all the DUisms, it doesn't make you a " moran"

:hug:

[Knight of Ni]

73. They're like rapists who use condoms.....(n/m)

[kentuck]

13. Michael Moore....here is your next movie !

And there is plenty of ammo...

[hippywife]

64. Or Robert Greenwald!

He does such a good job with these kinds of things.

[Royaras]

95. Didn't he already make one?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0420286/

The problem is that you will NEVER see this documentary on network TV. I saw it only because Netflix offers it. Blockbuster doesn't. Walmart doesn't. Coincidence?

[hippywife]

104. Yes, he's made a few.

But with the release of these memos and the timing involved in what Bush et al said when, Greewald would do a great job fitting all the pieces and the timelines together.

[vs the introvore]

162. available FOR FREE on my local (comcast) cable on demand.

greenwald's uncovered, outfoxed and bush's brain.
f-star the blockbustas!

[Arkana]

130. True. Mike doesn't exactly have to search hard for his stuff.

That's probably why F9/11 was so good and so powerful.

[Rageneau]

14. The MSM is completely corrupt and collusive in GOP crimes...

and has been for years and YEARS. Decades and decades.

Presently, they are doing all they can to excuse Bush from any accountability for the war crimes they helped him commit. They were corrupt and collusive with Bush before the war; they have been corrupt and collusive during it; they are being corrupt and collusive today in their feeble attempts at (get this) defending the president by telling us we all knew he was lying to us all along.

I used to think the fairy tale about the emporer having no clothes could never happen in a country with a "free" press like ours. I now realize that the only kind of country a tale like The Emporer's New Clothes COULD happen in is one with a "free" press ... like ours.

[ElectroPrincess]

33. Yes, and unlike during The Watergate Cover-up the print newspapers

are also CORRUPT and/or COMPLACENT such as The Washington Post and The New York Times.

Ask yourself why you don't hear rabid right wingers spewing out, "That liberal rag, The Washington Post" - or - "That corrupt left wing New York Times"? That's because they are in on the DEAL! The power brokers are corrupt and force the editors to act accordingly. Way down to the average reporter, they all know not to question this criminal Executive Branch harshly or there will be severe payback for both the institution and the individual.

What have the Ultra Wealthy Powerful Right Wing Republicans turned into? The mafia?

[suegeo]

40. Ditto Rageneau

The media is the enemy. They did not fail in their duty, because their duty is to serve their masters, who are elite corporate deviant freaks.

The media successfully helped their masters lie us into a war because that is what they were paid to do. From my perspective (I am a peasant), they failed. But from their perspective, they succeeded.

The media doesn't work for most peasants. For us, the media is the enemy.

[w13rd0]

16. Does the MSM not realize that we WERE WATCHING...

...this Real-Time Revisionism bullshit has GOT to be STOPPED. The fascinating thing is that on so many, it WORKS. I don't know what that is a symptom of, but it's f'n sick. A society so conditioned to revise recent history based on catch phrases and marketing campaigns. An entire segment of this society trained to believe any myth whispered into their ear by their "leader" or his lackeys.

[EFerrari]

18. Trauma. Traumatized people react that way. They can only

deal with the last two minutes, try not to look back or ahead too far.

[alcuno]

19. Where did you see Andrea say that?

What show and when. Thanks.

[suziedemocrat]

21. Here is the link and quote from Media Matters. I saw a DU'er mention it.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200506150005

On the June 14 edition of MSNBC Live, NBC chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell explained: "There have been anti-war groups and anti-Bush groups who've tried to generate this on the Internet, but ... there's no smoking gun here." Why not? Because "if you go back to George Bush's own comments , you had to be brain-dead not to know what he was up to."

And it is mentioned here:
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2556

NBC reporter Andrea Mitchell similarly remarked on June 14 (Media Matters, 6/15/05) that you had to be "brain dead not to know" what the White House was doing.


edited to add better link.

[LightningFlash]

27. Yes yeah right....A bunch of bullshit.

The lady is a complicit traitor who refused to report the story when it was hot, before the war happened. :eyes:

[TankLV]

63. OK - let's assume this as a given. From now on, since anybody who

doesn't know bush and the repukes are a bunch of LYING CRIMINALS, does that mean that we will hear, in response to anything bunkerboy or his gang of criminals says will be: "But you are LIARS, who have LIED to us about everything. Why should we believe a single thing you are saying NOW?!?!"

After all, we would have to be brain dead to not KNOW they are all LYING!

[tavalon]

22. So my question would be:

If "everyone" knew, "everyone" had the responsibility to push for impeachment of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and quite a few more. So would you rather pretend you knew and face why you didn't do the right thing, why you failed in your responsibility or would you rather suck up that you got had and get to the task now? The task, of course, being impeachment.

We always get back to the impeachment word, don't we?

BTW, I don't know the acronym MSM. Did you mean the corporate controlled media by chance? ;)

edited for a missing question mark.

[stevietheman]

68. MSM = Mainstream Media

n/t

[tavalon]

86. Um

I'll let you in on a secret. I'm purposely playing dumb on the MSM thing because it is highly poor framing to call it "mainstream media" when it is in fact corporate controlled media. If we frame the debate, we win the debate.

Earlier, I tried reminding people of that and got nowhere. Now, I play the blond and hopefully it sticks a little better this way.

[stevietheman]

108. I see your point... thanks

n/t

[DSperoRN]

146. Yes - let's call it the CCM

The term "corporate-controlled media" is much better than "MainStream Media." Thanks for mentioning that. The fascists use the term MSM also, and they say the MSM is left-wing and anti-American. CCM is a much better term and brings in the class conflict that we have been avoiding for years, to our own detriment.

From now on, I'm saying CCM.

[Imagevision]

157. Current MSM (corporate media) is todays Fahrenheit 4.51

Destroy the books/remove the media - they're never know!

[DemoTex]

23. It is common knowledge that Bu$h should be impeached and convicted.

Common knowledge. Very common knowledge.

[stevietheman]

69. It is also common knowledge...

that Bush should be tried at the Hague for war crimes.

[rox63]

25. I'd like to see them explain this to families who've lost soldiers

I'd really like to see these corrupt asswipes from the MSM explain to people who've lost children, spouses, parents, brothers and sisters, why their loved ones had to die for these lies that everyone supposedly already knew about.
:wtf: :mad: :puke:

[Poor Richard Lex]

30. Bush wanted saddam because the iraqis tried to assasinate poppy

and he was hell bent on doing it from the start. 911 gave him the ability to go into iraq, at least in his mind. An shrub doesnt care about the children whose daddies were really killed in his phony war, as long as he can get saddam in his hidey hole.

[NEOBuckeye]

47. Fuck Poppy Bush. At least as much as his son, he is responsible for Iraq

He plays a key role for the "Death Merchant" Carlyle Group which is making a HUGE fortune off the Iraq war. Isn't it also odd that of all the living former Presidents, including Clinton, that Bush Sr. is the only one still receiving daily briefings from the CIA? Why the hell would that 81 year old man still need this information??

Bush Senior must also be thoroughly investigated and put on trial at The Hague for war crimes and crimes against humanity. He's a slimy Criminal Boss just waiting to be exposed and brought down.

[Royaras]

97. When did this happen?

I remember when Shrub said in the press conference "He tried to kill my dad," and I looked at my husband and asked "when was that?"

I had a vested interest in the Gulf War I, because I am of Middle Eastern descent with a very ME name and there were a lot of ignorant people threatening people like me, assuming all "camel jockeys" were the same (I think Bush played on that bigotry too, confusing the public with the justifiable attack on Afghanistan with the unjustifiable attack on Iraq). I don't remember any assasination attempts. Are there any credible reports on it, beside Shrub saying so?

[LizW]

102. April, 1993, in Kuwait, allegedly

Supposedly a guy was to blow Bush I up with a car bomb, but he was caught before he could do it.

The plot is highly disputed. Kuwait said Saddam was behind it, but some CIA officials doubted that, and Seymour Hersh wrote an article suggesting that the Kuwaitis made it up and pointing out that there was no real physical evidence of the plot.

[ProudDad]

144. Yeah, this from the Kuwaitis

who brought you the "incubator" lies to help bring on GW I...

[caraher]

103. It was in 1993

From an article by Sy Hersh

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/content/?020930fr_archive02

On Saturday, June 26, 1993, twenty-three Tomahawk guided missiles, each loaded with a thousand pounds of high explosives, were fired from American Navy warships in the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea at the headquarters complex of the Mukhabarat, the Iraqi intelligence service, in downtown Baghdad. The attack was in response to an American determination that Iraqi intelligence, under the command of President Saddam Hussein, had plotted to assassinate former President George Bush during Bush's ceremonial visit to Kuwait in mid-April. It was President Bill Clinton's first act of war.
...
The media and a majority of the American public saw the American raid on Baghdad as a success, and as evidence that the struggling new President had finally demonstrated toughness when toughness was needed. Public-opinion polls showed that Clinton's approval rating climbed by eleven percentage points on June 27th, the day after the attack; more than two-thirds of those polled approved of the bombing.

President Clinton and those aides who supported his decision may have been right: the Iraqi intelligence service may have developed and put in motion a plot to assassinate George Bush during his triumphant visit to Kuwait to celebrate the Gulf War victory over Iraq. And if such a plot did exist Saddam Hussein may have known of it, or should have known, and thus would have been personally responsible for not preventing it. But my own investigations have uncovered circumstantial evidence, at least as compelling as the Administration's, that suggests that the American government's case against Iraq—as it has been outlined in public, anyway—is seriously flawed.

[Wizard777]

134. The assassination attempt was Kuwait.

If we can find out that Rumsfeld okayed the Invasion of Kuwait from 6,000 miles away. What makes you think the next door neighbors wont find out? That wasn't Iraq anyone spraying the perfume along the Parade root to try to confuse the bomb dogs. That doesn't work. But they know that now. Bush got underhanded and mislead by KUWAIT not Iraq. That's where Jr's flowers and parades reference comes from. If they can't figure out Kuwait was behind that. They have no business trying to figure out the WMD'S thing. The can be vendictive Son Of Bush's. They are having vengence for Prescott Bush too. Blind Mellon Bush. I want my Granddaddies money back. This family has some real evil axes to grind with America.

[Knight of Ni]

137. Did she open up MSNBC to a class action suit??

...On the part of the families of the dead and maimed US soldiers?

[Skittles]

26. saying that absolves them having to explain why they cheer-led the lying

Yes INDEED; that is what the little pinheads are justifying in their minds

[spooked911]

28. On the Diane Rehm radio news show yesterday, Susan Paige sarcastically

said "I'm shocked Bush would say something different in private than to the public" about Iraq's WMD and whether he had decided to go to war or not. She basically blew off his lies as no big deal.

I then proceeded to yell "fuck you!" at the radio for the next five minutes. It is so DISGUSTING how now they act like it is no big deal what Bush did.

Fuck them-- they are complicit in murder.

[ihelpu2see]

29. I feel after Adrea's comments that Impeachment hearings should start

on Monday.... I know she said it flippedly, like I am an educated beltway pundit, but her comment proves our points that the Admin. was responsible for the poor Intel and Bush, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld should be held accountable for "Fixing" the Intel!!!

You cant say, "We all knew" and then not do something about the pres. lying!

[Warren Stupidity]

34. 3-way spin

1.) ignore the DSM and all activities related to it;

2.) pretend that the major theme of the DSM is that the Cabal was busy planning the war way in advance - and that this is good because it demonstrates their wisdom and foresight;

3.) dismiss the evidence of treasonous and deliberate deceit as 'old news': everyone knew they were lying, no big deal.

(1) has failed as the DSM is now out there and being discussed in the MSM and is hitting front pages every now and then. The war is now starkly unpopular with the public and the Cabal is a bit worried.

(2) continues to be their best play although they have diluted it with (3), and us common folks, led by Mr. Conyers keep getting the real message out there.

(3) is new and dangerous and shows their desperation - they are admitting to a High Crime and Misdemeanor but dismissing it as of no consequence.

Interesting times indeed.

[starmaker]

36. World thought Sadam had WMD

Quote by Condi last night on Hardball
on rebuttal to DSM

[OneTwentyoNine]

39. Oh horseSHIT Condi,did you miss the MILLIONS who marched against..

Your fearless leaders TRUMPED up invasion?!?!?!?

Fucking liar!!!!

[Wizard777]

138. She must have busy reading the latest UNMOVIC report from Hans Blixx

or she's just a liar. Maybe she still Believes that Saddam wouldn't allow the UN Inspectors to enter Iraq before the invasion?

Hans Blixx to world: We have access to sites and personel in Iraq we have never had access to before. Saddam Husseins cooperation is unprecedented.

Bush to Congress: Saddam Hussein will not allow the UN Inspectors to enter Iraq.

Colin Powell to UN Inspectors in Iraq: Get out now! We're comming in.

[dalloway]

37. THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE

betweeen lying to the people, and LYING TO CONGRESS.

One is unethical. The other is LEGALLY CRIMINAL.

Read John Bonifaz on why there is a CONSTITUIONAL DUTY to impeach
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/17/162211/318

Nothing else matters than the fact that Bush lied in the letter he delivered to Congress after the invasion began and lied about the reasons he was going to war. He LIED TO CONGRESS, the body vested with the constitutional power of declaring war.

It doesn't matter what the MSM believed. What matters is what Bush put in writing to Congress.

[Paul Dlugokencky]

151. BINGO

http://www.cafepress.com/kickindemocrats

[WePurrsevere]

158. Exactly! n/t

[riverwalker]

38. then Mitchell is saying Paula Zahn is brain dead

there are transcripts of her numerous pre-war interviews with Scott Ritter. Thank goodness for the Internet, Paula, these transcripts and your ignorance and drum beating for the war will live forever. Again and again Ritter attempted to tell you the truth and again and again he was met with scorn and hostility. When can the apology be expected, Paula Zahn?

[hemp_not_war]

41. wow, I'm completly shocked

She's right, you had to be brain-dead not to know what Bush was up to. Braindead enough to trust mainstream media. The problem is many people do. The media is as guilty as Bush, without the media, the scam could not be pulled it off. Unfortunately they probably won't see war crimes tribunals. And right now we are trying to befriend them to cover the DSM. If they refuse, a giant lawsuit from citizens of America who bought the lies vs the media should be brought about. Something has to be done. I have quit watching them, for the influence they have over us is only because we watch them.

[Tesla]

44. This is crazy!! Now they just pretend

everyone knew so therefore we are all guilty??

We tried to stop it and they called us Un-American!!!
We cried over it and they called us babies...
We prayed for it to stop and they called us UnHoly?
Now, because we knew he was lying and didn't agree we are guilty cause we knew?

I'm Freakin!!

[teryang]

43. Blue state warriors

http://www.counterpunch.org/frank06172005.html

Blue State Warriors
How Democrats Derailed the Peace Movement
By JOSHUA FRANK

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."

--Sen. John F. Kerry (D-Mass.), Oct. 9, 2002

<snip>By then, the Democrats, who had failed to articulate any basis for citizens to vote for them as opposed to their Republican rivals regarding the Iraq situation, had lost control of the Senate as well as many seats in the House. They didn't challenge Bush on any major issue. They supported his invasion of both Afghanistan and Iraq. It was a horrific display of political ineptness. The Democrats - unlike the millions of Americans who knew Bush and Co. had ulterior motives for unilaterally attacking Iraq - had been eager to back an illegal war.

Although 82 percent of registered Democrats believed the war to be a grave mistake, according to a 2004 USA Today/CNN/Gallup Poll conducted on June 21-23, Kerry was steadfast in his support for the Iraq war. His own campaign platform was a glaring memento of the Democrats' inability to offer significant alternatives to George W. Bush. They simply believed they could manage the situation more astutely. "This administration did not build a true international coalition," Kerry's campaign platform proclaimed. He simply would have done it better.<snip>

[Hissyspit]

45. This is freakish. These people must feel a thin layer of slime left on...

their skin after they shower, that just won't come off.

I don't live in America anymore. I live in a freakish alternate America.

Clearly, most are simply trying to cover their asses. Pathetic.

Do some research. MOST did NOT indicate in 2002 or 2003 that they knew they were being lied to...

[OneTwentyoNine]

50. If true could the ass covering by MSM be anymore obvious??

Can't do their job so report that EVERYONE knew Bush lied a year or more ago.

REALLY???? Where the hell is a story from a year ago stating that very fact. Where is a story from March 2003 that everyone knew the War was total bullshit??

[mgmstl]

51. Andrea Mitchell is a useless piece of crap

Perhap since Ms. Mitchell says she knew Bush was lying, we should start demanding her resignation, or anyone else in the MSM for being complicit. If she knew he was lying, why didn't someone in the MSM say something. She needs to go.

[tughillcam]

52. guilty as well

They are all guilty of treason by association and accomplises to the 'downplaying of facts' making the opportunity for more crimes to be committed. They suppressed information to defraud the American people. "....beating a political stake in your black heart will be the fulfillment of my life..." Cindy Sheehan

[struggle4progress]

53. This is how it sounds when opinion changes: "1:You're crazy. 2:You're ..

.. just wrong. 3:You're overstating the case. 4:You should try to be more balanced in your statements. 5:Hmmm. 6:Well, everybody I know has always said that.

When they get to stage 6, thank them for their courage and tell them (with a straight face, please!) just how much you have appreciated the fact that they've always been there ...

[Triana]

55. They're covering their own a** for having dropped the ball...

...in reporting the LIES of the bu$h administration. AP even admitted (also posted here on DU) that it dropped the ball (THEIR words).

There's a F.A.I.R. article someone posted here on DU that explains that they failed to question the delta between what bu$hit had told us and Congress RE: reasons to invade, and what the DSM says.

WE KNEW the asshole was lying but most Americans didn't because the MEDIA never questioned it. Now, they're finally getting the picture. But this should have happened MONTHS ago!

THEY FAILED to report the NEWS. Too busy with Michael Jackson, shark stories, monkeys and other crap.

Read the F.A.I.R article. It explains why Andrea Mitchell and the MSM's assertion that 'everyone knew bu$h was lying' doesn't begin to hold water.

[LongTomH]

56. The MSM has discovered Sin!

After Hiroshima, someone remarked that: "The physicists have known sin."
Since then, most scientists have been very concerned about the ethics of their profession.

Looks like it's time for some confession and contrition from the talking heads!

[MadisonProgressive]

57. Just more proof that Bushco owns the MSM

[smoogatz]

59. The "everybody knew" defense

is an attempt to make us ALL complicit in Bushco's lies. The MSM--especially cable and network news and the major dailies--are already complicit, and they know it. If they were duped by Bushco into reporting Chalabi's nonsense as fact, Rove played them for gullible rubes. If they knew and didn't report that Bushco was lying (which is what they're claiming now), they're guilty of committing a massive journalistic fraud on the American people. Those are the two choices: they're fools, or they intentionally withheld the truth from their viewers/readers--the ultimate breach of journalistic ethics. Mitchell and others seem to prefer the latter defense--apparently admitting to being a rightwing propagandist is preferable to admitting that Rove made jackasses of the lot of them.

[EVDebs]

60. "I will not condone anyone who lies, cheats or steals.."

(at least until AFTER graduating from the US military academy)

New amendment to the Honor Code sponsored by the DoD.

[rocktivity]

62. If they knew along, WHY DIDN'T THEY REPORT IT????

Fear of getting an envelope containing either a pink slip or white powder? Incompetence? Or COMPLICITY?

:headbang:
rocknation

[evermind]

66. It doesn't matter if "everyone" knew all along. Fact is, if he

lied to congress in order to lead his own nation into war, that is a crime. It is immaterial how many people knew it, one or one billion, it's still a crime. He still should be out of office.

If everyome knew it, that means it's true (one can't know a false thing), so that just means the case is so much firmer.. :)

[KLF44]

67. If they knew like she claims

then they all should be tried as accomplices to the lies and thrown into Gitmo next to Bush and his cronies(sp)

[justinsb]

70. But I think that everyone who voted

in favor of the war SHOULD be held accountable. No one, or very few, even in the Democratic party asked hard questions at the time - but there was ample evidence that the questions at least should be asked.

[erpowers]

71. Reason for Less Attention

The MSM is trying to give a reason for not paying attention to the memo in the first place and a reason to not pay attention to it in the future. By saying it is old news they are trying to make it less important.

[killbotfactory]

72. Yeah, it's an open secret in Washington

It's still illegal. Do your fucking jobs and report it.

[Up2Late]

74. I have the same feeling, and if true, We should DEMAND they be FIRED!

or resign, as long as SOME, if not ALL of the RW pundits saying this resign!

We ALL know how the ReThugs like to shift blame, Well guess what, NOW they are going to try to Shift the blame to their Ignorant Audience, I think if we start now, we can make this back fire on them.

Done correctly, this could be a Golden opportunity to shift a Huge Block of the Wishy-washy middle to the Democratic Left!:evilgrin:

[Generator]

75. What infuriates me to no end is they want it both ways

Just like the administration.

"Everybody THOUGHT Iraq had WMD."

"You must have been brain dead to not know Bush was lying."

McClellan responding to Conyers DSM hearing and others have said from the Washington Post:

"It's just anti-war liberals saying this."

"They all believed we Iraq had WMD and they even voted for it, even Kerry voted for the IWR."

Well, as us Kerry "appologists" have pointed out many times the IWR was a resolution to go to war ONLY after inspections, after the UN as a last resort. And that meant real inspections and a real UN effort. Not just going through the motions. That's all this administration did. PRETEND it was a last resort.

It wasn't carte blanche for Bush to lie about intelligence or rely on false intelligence and then have him and his appologists say in effect, "Too bad suckers, you believed me."

I'm a liberal and I BOUGHT the lies. I will not be called a sucker because I didn't know how rotten to the core my government was. Because I didn't believe that Colin Powell was just doing what he was told and had (and apparently continues to have) no problem with the deaths of those dying for us on his soul.

I will not be shamed. I will lay the shame where it lies on those that lied, decieved and have committed this crime against my country.

[omega minimo]

77. We are at war with Eurasia

We have always been at war with Eurasia













:evilgrin:


"Now it is 1984
Knock knock at your front door
It's the suede denim secret police
They have come for your uncool niece"

[FredStembottom]

78. I think it's kid's stuff....

Like finding 5 empty Jack Daniels bottles under a 14 year-old's bed. Confront the kid with the evidence of his really serious and shocking problem and what does he say? "So what! Everyone knows I drink. What's _your_ problem?"

Kid stuff! Grownups acting like teens!

Don't let your kids see this behavior go unchallenged!:grr:

[jmcon007]

79. I'm a news junkie, too, and what I do remember is.....

....when someone even came close to suggesting that Bush made have shaded the truth a little those in the MSM would start screaming, "Are you saying the President LIED?! Huh?! Huh?! Is that what you are saying?! Huh?!", in other words, virtually daring people to call this President a liar.
And now they are claiming it's old hat? We can't let them get away with trying to cover their own neglect.

[hamiltob]

80. Look

OF COURSE the MSM is saying that everyone knew. I have no doubt that many Democrats knew that Iraq was bogus and went along with the war anyway, NOT because Bush was popular but because they knew the obvious: if America doesn't secure the Middle East and the Caspian Sea Region we'll run out of gas and oil too soon and our economy will collapse. If you think Yugoslavia was about war crimes, well, you're wrong. It was about our national security, economic security, and so is Iraq. This whole thing is playing out exactly how Zbigniew Brzezinski wrote in "The Grand Chessboard." From Truman to Bush II, they all knew one thing, we have to protect our economic interests. America will do anything to make sure we have enough energy. THAT is our national security policy. There may be a HUGE difference in Democrats and Republicans but there is one thing that binds us all: we are Capitalists. We are out for money. We will do anything to make sure that doesn't get disturbed. Arguing if the MSM is trying to set up the Democrats is interesting but utterly irrelevant. I guarantee there would have been some sort of Middle East intervention if Kerry were elected. Washington DC may have parties with different names, but they're basically the same.

[brindis_desala]

101. Bingo! We have a winner! That's what Kerry meant when he said he'd

fight a "smarter war" (namely cut in the Germans and French on the spoils...) The Story that is being missed is that BushCo's greatest danger to the world is its corruption (we're hemorrhaging money from the treasury) That is the story its cronies in the corporate press hopes gets never brought up.

[suziedemocrat]

122. If you have time - please post a new thread about this.

It sounds like you know a lot more than I do. Please - get the information out there! I think DU is gaining in stature - and just posting a thread on DU will get it some attention. If you post it - let me know and I'll recommend it.

[brindis_desala]

133. I posted some of the major articles I've read here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1866833

[jmcon007]

126. I couldn't disagree more....if this whole thing is an American doc-

trine, then why didn't Clinton begin something pre-emptively somewhere in the Middle East and sacrifice our sons and daughters with the "lies for oil" program that you are implying are so all-American?
What you say is pure bullshit and Bush can't get off that easily.
Nice try, though.

[rman]

148. It doesn't get Bush off the hook

First of all Clinton did go along with the "secure US interests across the world doctrine". NAFTA is one example, and trade agreements with China is another.
Otoh a supposedly Dem president could not go as far as a Repub president, for the sake of appearances. If Clinton would have acted the same as a Repub prez, it would be to obvious that there's really only one set of interests that dominates both parties.

[KnowerOfLogic]

140. So you think we're 'securing' something over there? If securing oil

was the plan, which it may have been, it doesn't appear to be going very well. And of course it wouldn't be; the whole plan was a loser from day one. The architects of the Iraqmire venture had no clue what they were getting into, and given that they refused to listen to the reality based community, oil reserves are now going to be *less* secure, and we all know what gas prices are like.

[UCSBLiberalCat53]

81. Some liberal media

If it were Clinton, the MSM would be calling for his head.

[seemslikeadream]

82. You would have had to be brain dead Andrea Mitchell

Exact quote from an MSNBC interview of Andrea Mitchell and her thoughts on the DSM the morning of Wednesday June 15

You would have had to be brain dead not to know what the president was up too.






Earlier photo with the brain dead.

[CTyankee]

106. It's great that her acne got cleared up

It used to be really bad.

[janetle]

84. Rep. Jim McDermott was vilified.....

...for visiting Iraq and merely suggesting that Bush was "misleading".

[oldcoot]

87. If Andrea Mitchell is telling the truth

If Andrea Mitchell is telling the truth, she is admitting that the press is partially responsible for every death in Iraq since the invasion started. Had they investigated and reported Bush's lies, the American people would have opposed this war from the beginning and Bush may have had to back down from invading Iraq. Those soldiers who died in Iraq would probably still be alive today.

[MasonJar]

88. If they knew and didn't report truthfully, then they are also

culpable for the deaths of 1000's, because the MSM promoted the war. Their coverage of the millions against the war was snide and threatening. The MSM did and still does cover Bush's backside; they will be going down also if there is justice in the universe.

[DirtyDawg]

90. Hey, Andrea...

...tell me, what is the job of 'the media' if it ain't to ask questions? And if you knew all along that geedubya was lyin', then why in hell didn't you? Afraid your gravy train might lose his job? I think it more likely that MSM is even more given over to 'cognitive dissonance' than the rightest of the right wingers. So instead of admitting you were wrong you say 'oh, we knew that, we were just trying to see you guys could figure it out'.

Those that have posted that this whole sorry bunch is prime for a Michael Moore 'off with their heads' documentary are right on. The complicity and incompetence of 'the media' during the run-up to bushco's first term and the aftermath will go down in history as the sorriest of times for journalism...even worse than the yellow journalism and muck-raking of a century ago.

[AuntiBush]

91. Oh, sure. It's obvious... Ain't Buying it. MSN Admits to Deceit!

Holding "them" just as accountable, aiding and abetting to all the horrendous, horrible scandals of recent times lying to all of humanity.

If there is a Hell, certainly they'll be there before the rest of us.

[darkism]

92. This is the STUPIDEST defense for ANYTHING that I've ever heard!

"Everybody knew," so it's OK?

What the fuck is that?!

THE ADMINISTRATION LIED. MANY MANY TIMES. WHETHER IT WAS OBVIOUS OR NOT, IT WAS STILL LIES AND IT'S STILL A CRIME.

That the criminally-negligent corporate media is trying to excuse their behavior by basically saying that lying to the Congress and entire nation is just hunky-dory...it's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

[evermind]

99. That is an extremely cogent and lucid response! Thankyou! (n/t)

[assclown_bush]

116. It's akin to children who kill their parents then plead for mercy....

when they are caught, because they are now orphans. It's utterly ridiculous.

:silly:

[calimary]

93. Hey, look, guys. The response is SIMPLE!

"Aw, it's old news. Everybody knew bush was lying (stretching the truth, exaggerating, gaming the system, cooking the books, "fixing" the intelligence, cherry-picking the intel, pressuring the CIA/FBI, fudging the facts, fill in the blank here)."

The proper reaction is: "Well, WHY DIDN'T YOU REPORT THAT?"

Did any of us EVER see ANYTHING in the mainstream media (not the BBC or other stuff we see online and in the alternative media) that said bush was lying? In ALL the NYTimes and Washington Post coverage and eeerything else, did they EVER make that point clear? And if they EVER had any conflicting opinions to what was being spewed by the White House, the State Department, Condi and her mushroom clouds, the Defense Department, and any number of GOP apologists, that was any higher than three-quarters of the way down a multi-page writethru? Did ANY second opinion EVER make it to page A-1 with all the rest of the "White House says..." stuff?

I didn't think so.

And then you promptly seque straight back into the issue, and what was lied about and/or covered up and/or ignored and/or downplayed. Don't let this media self-examination crap become the lead story. The lead remains: bUSH LIED. AND THOUSANDS DIED. BECAUSE bUSH LIED.

[noamnety]

94. The revised version of "people are saying"

Those who saw Outfoxed knew the tactic. No need for sourcing, no need for verification.

"Everyone" knew? Who is "everyone," specifically?

[Pystoff]

96. Countdown clock

Most people have heard of the countdown clock for nuclear war I think a second clock should be started. The countdown till a second US revolution and I'd say we are at about ohhhh 11:50 right now. I know 10 minutes might seem a ways off but 5 minutes can disappear quickly in the hands of Bush. Things are ticking right now like the DSM and the rage it is instilling in the people angry with Bush and the media. Another really bad move is all it will take for mass protests here and with mass protests I think the next Kent State might happen then all hell will break loose. A draft might well be the breaking point since he won't come off Iraq.

[Disturbed]

100. Andrea Greenspan and the Corp., Media..

are complicit in the illegal Iraq Invasion and Occupation. She has admitted it. I hope she and others are charged as accomplices.

[Pystoff]

110. Eh not so sure how that'd work

Thing is yes they are guilty thats fact. But charges ehhhh na that wouldn't legally work considering the repeal of the fairness in reporting stipulation was dropped years ago (not sure of the actual name of the congressional bill). The only court they could face is the court of public knowledge and be tried by the people and made to leave the profession by protest. Which I would very much love to see.

[RealityDose]

98. THe story is on Yahoo's homepage

Click on the link at yahoo's homepage to read the story. My guess is the more people read it the longer it will stay on the homepage.

[BattyDem]

107. Let them keep saying it ...

say it on every newscast 24/7 because in order to say that line, they have to report on the DSM, which means the average person will finally get to hear about it ... and they will certainly be aware of the fact that they DID NOT know Bush lied! The more people get angry about it, the better it is for our side. :evilgrin:

[stevietheman]

109. Been thinking about this today...

and I've come to a startling conclusion.

What if Bush's ardent supporters buy into this message and even declare, "oh yeah, we knew W. was lying all along. He's OK!".

Then, I have to wonder: Do these people not care about their own integrity? Are they really willing to openly declare that it's all right for a President to fix intelligence around a pre-determined policy, one that led to the deaths of 1,700+ of our finest (and injuries and mental issues for thousands of other soldiers, not to mention all the dead Iraqis)? And are they really willing to be comfortable with a President and his administration repeatedly lying in a bald-faced manner to _their_ elected legislators (whether Republican or Democrat) as well as the press (our so-called "fourth estate")?

I seem to recall a saying from Republican President Abraham Lincoln: "Honesty is the best policy."

Which leads to me this thought: Have they no shame? Isn't there a point where any of us, being of sound rational mind, whether conservative or liberal, would have to come around and finally say "Enough is enough" and "I deserve better as a citizen not to be lied to" and "Sending off our young men/women off to die in a war without justification is tantamount to murder"?

Where are the feelings of national grief? Where are the feelings of injustice?

Can't we put aside our ideological differences for ONCE, and declare in harmony: WE THE PEOPLE WERE WRONGED

[longship]

111. Response: Good we agree. Let's impeach them.

If they agree that he lied. Then, fine. They must agree that we must impeach the son-of-a-bitch. After all, if lying about consensual oral sex between two willing people is impeachable, certainly lying about justifications for taking a nation to war, putting thousands of lives at risk, and resulting in many thousands dead and grieviously injured including innocent women and children must be impeachable.

Since we are agreeing about it, let's do it.

On edit: him -> them in title.

[BattyDem]

113. That's a good point

Just because "everyone knew" he lied, that doesn't change the fact that it is illegal to lie to Congress.

[stickdog]

112. Basically, the MSM sold us a war based on lies, and now they are saying

that the fact that some Americans knew that all along proves that EVERYBODY should have known all along and the fact that most Americans didn't proves that nobody really cares anyway.

It's a profoundly Republican line of reasoning. According to the MSM, anybody who isn't already furious that they unquestioningly represented lies as truth to sell BushCo's invasion MUST not care why we went to war. And anyone who is pissed about our bs justifications for invading Iraq MUST have realized MSM's treachery long ago -- to the point that even official British cabinet-level documents confirming their murderous collusion with BushCo don't merit the slightest passing mention.

Using a truly Republican MO, MSM denies all responsibility for its role in FORMING and GUIDING public opinion. According to the WaPo and NYTimes, either we knew they were selling us a sack of shit the whole time and got pissed, we knew they were selling us a sack of shit the whole time and we don't give a fuck, or we were such stupid, brain-dead marks for trusting them that we quite simply deserved to be conned. Nothing else to see here. Move along.

[tblue37]

114. Anyone who expressed doubt about the justification for war

was absolutely trashed in and by the media. They trotted out administration spokespersons who attacked the honor, integrity, and patriotism of those who expressed such doubts, and the media whores themselves also trashed people who suggested that Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice might be tarting up the case for war.

If, as they claim now, they always knew, then they are absolutely guilty of the same sort of war crimes that propagandists for the Nazis were convicted of. Go ahead, war criminal media whores, make the case against yourselves. You drummed up support for the war to boost ratings and to please your corporate masters. And now you say you knew all along you were lying to promote an illegal invasion of a sovereign state (because Bush isn't the only one who made those claims--YOU did, too!). Guilty as hell, aren't you?

[assclown_bush]

115. If "everyone knew Bush lied" then it follows that....

"everyone knows Bush is lying now". If the reasons to go to war were lies and everyone knows it then does everyone know that the election was fixed in 2000? And all reporters knew it? 2004? And all reporters knew it? Abu Gharib was a demonic military hellhole rife with abuses...everyone knows that too, including the MSM? Where does it stop? Everything that we had believed to be true about the despicable behavior of the republicans is true then? And the MSM knew about it all along? Cancel my subscription to Wall Street Journal post haste.

:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[MojoXN]

117. Let them pretend all they want...

Lying to Congress is an impeachable offense. So let them pretend. When they start to say, "So what? We knew that Bush lied the whole time" it will be a piece of cake for us to say, "Then you knowingly lied to the American people, and thus are discredited in perpetuity." Believe it or not, there are a lot of Republicans who won't stand for that shit, by which I mean deliberate deception by both Bush and the MSM. Your hardcore Dubyite Rightists won't listen, but fuck 'em! There IS a large body of moderates who will eventually wake up and smell the treason. Take heart, for over the next twelve months, we shall either carry the day, or be defeated. I can't stand the tension of not knowing if our proud, formerly honorable nation will descend into totalitarianism or will be reclaimed from the savage regressionists currently in charge. If the unthinkable happens, I have a plan to get the hell out of here. But this is one liberal who won't give up his country without a fight, goddamnit.

MojoXN

[Fire Walk With Me]

118. They would have filled in Mike Moore and the Dixie Chicks instead of

booing them, burning CDs, removing them from distribution and playlists, when they originally contested the invasion.

"Ha ha, don't you know Bush lied? We do. Run along now, silly people!"

Instead, they burned CDs, etc. SURE they knew Bush lied.

What it's about, is making deceit acceptable. Zero tolerance on twisty-turny rhetoric!

[A Brand New World]

119. The exact reason the MSM did not expose the Bush lies regarding

this illegal and immoral war is that they also wanted this war to occur because of the "excitement". That is the reason the Pentagon went along with the reporters and photographers being along, right on the front lines in the beginning of this fiasco. Remember all of that - how they were assigned a particular unit? The press had to go through special training for several weeks/months in order to be there. Of course, they weren't going to expose the Bush administration and all of their lies because then their fun and excitement would not occur, along with those extraordinary ratings. Even though I deplore everything that Bush and his cabal stand for, you must admit that was genius on their part. They knew the MSM would be putty in their hands if they were allowed to be part of the action.

[Knight of Ni]

135. Well, 1,700+ U.S. soldiers died for their "fun and excitement"

not to mention the rest of the coalition soldiers and possibly over 100,000 Iraqis, and God knows how many future casualties we'll incur. And that's not even including the maimed.

Hope getting their rocks off was worth the blood on their hands!!

[pauldp]

121. The DSM is still the double smoking gun.

The gift that keeps on giving. Bushco AND the Corporate Media are sooo busted. We CANNOT let them get away with this one.

[mcg]

123. I and most others did not know he was lying...

and I'm a liberal democrat. I just couldn't conceive that he was that evil. I knew he was bad, but not THAT bad.

In fact I remember having a discussion with someone in a grocery store. I had some doubtful thoughts about it, thinking maybe it was about oil (and he seemed to be in a rush to go to war), but we ended up deciding that, no, he wouldn't do that, go to war for oil and lie about the reasons (he couldn't be that evil). So I reluctantly felt, well, I guess this war will be necessary, with all those WMD's Saddam's got. But it turns out that this is a case of the BIG LIE.

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Big-Lie

"All this was inspired by the principle - which is quite true in itself - that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. ..."
- Adolf Hitler

I feel betrayed.

[KnowerOfLogic]

141. How could you not know? There was so much contrary evidence out

there, and Bush's determination and desire to go to war were literally palpable. This should have raised skepticism levels such that no one would have agreed to launch a 'pre-emptive' war of choice.

[mcg]

155. because I wasn't informed and I didn't research it much....

... I figured I couldn't do much about it anyway, and the mainstream media wasn't forthcoming about the contrary evidence. I did have doubts about their claims, I just didn't know. If I had been a member of Congress I would have researched it more, and I wouldn't have voted to give Bush the power to go to war.

Unfortunately, most people do not do much research on the issues.

[laugle]

125. Yea, they are all saying they new he was going to war, but they aren't

saying they new he was cooking the books, and that he mislead congress and the American people. And that is the real crime!

[Arkana]

129. If it was, it would backfire miserably

The only people that voted AGAINST the war were Dems, as I recall.

[Skwmom]

132. So we should reward the "Blank Check Democrats"

who voted for the war because they were worried about their political career? Give me a break. While the media played a role in this debacle, the "blank check" wing of the Democratic party is hardly blameless.

I will NEVER vote for a "Blank Check Democrat." To do so would be to encourage the further selling out of our country and its citizens.

[KnowerOfLogic]

142. The fact that so many dems supported the war makes it harder for

any outrage to gain momentum. Too many people were in on it, and those of us who opposed it and have a right to be outraged are all outraged out.

[Wizard777]

139. They are right they were brain dead and not thinking.

Bush was leading a terror attack on Congress. They were floating all kinds of threats. Talk of Ad campaigns to highlight the disenting Senators or Represenatives support of Terrorism against America to their constituents. You know the old, Senator Sonova Beiche wants you to be killed by Saddams Stockpiles of WMD's. That is why he has voted against this War. So yes they were too afraid to think. So they just reacted. But they reacted quicker than Bush on 9/11. Sooooo......

[pat_k]

143. Call them on it!

June 16th on MSNBC’s Countdown, Jim Vandehei had the following to say (transcript):

VANDEHEI: Well, not really, and the reason would be that the two allegations that are in the memo are basically that the president was planning to go to war long before he was publicly acknowledging it, and determined to use highly disputed weapons of mass destruction information to justify an invasion. Both of those charges, I think, have largely been true—proved by the media, and by administration officials who were there during the war planning sessions. . .

. . . I think the historical context is that it‘s the first time we really have something in writing that proves what I think a lot of people already knew. I mean, we had—our reporters have talked to several officials that have said exactly what‘s in those memos. But now you have a paper trail. So I think that would be the historical significance of it.

So, the Euphemedia knows all about the criminal behavior. Old news. All part of the game. Aarrgh. Don't they listen to themselves?

Hit back. This is serious stuff!

Bush’s lies = terrorism = high crime

Threatening the American people with annihilation in a nuclear holocaust based on "highly disputed weapons of mass destruction information", is an act of terrorism. {Bush, Oct 7, 2002 "America must not ignore the threat gathering against us. Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud."}

Threatening the American people with the horrors of a chemical or biological attack based unverified claims, is an act of terrorism. {Bush, 9/2/02, "The Iraqi regime possesses biological and chemical weapons… And according to the British government, the Iraqi regime could launch a biological or chemical attack in as little as 45 minutes. "}

Terrorizing the American people to frighten them into supporting the war he was hell-bent on waging constitutes a high crime.

If the revelations in the Downing Street Memo have been proven -- that the Bush administration conspired to justify going to war "by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD," and to accomplish this objective "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." – Congress has a duty to take the steps necessary to remove him from office.

The "story" that demands attention is this:
If evidence is so abundant that the revelations in the memo had been "proved by the media, and by administration officials who were there during the war planning sessions," and "a lot of people already knew" this to be the case, why haven't the members of the House acted? The knowledge of crime demands an inquiry.

As the elected representatives closest to the people, the members of the House of Representatives do not have the option of ignoring such serious crimes. When confronted with evidence of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors, they have a duty to initiate an Impeachment inquiry on our behalf. If the evidence is sufficient to establish, if believed, that George W. Bush committed treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors, they must formulate specific charges and send the case to the Senate for trial.

It is time ofr members of the press to ask some questions. Why aren't members of congress acting on their knowledge of crimes?

Of course, if congress continues to fail in their duty, it is up to us to hold them accountable.

[dchill]

147. These mediots are indicting themselves.

If the media knew Bush was lying, then where are their reports of that fact? Answer: there aren't any reports. All the American media consumers got were enthusiastically gushed White House talking points - or "catapulted propaganda", so to speak.

They were so gleeful at being "embedded" or at having "access" that they didn't care that what they were delivering was counter to what they now claim to have known at the time.

Andrea Mitchell. James Vandehei. Dana Milbank. Chris Matthews. Wolf. Judy. Welcome to the Newswhores Hall of Shame. Go to hell.

[MojoXN]

161. If there's a Hell, trust me, they'll all be going...

[cleveramerican]

149. he didn't lie, he was very careful to avoid any overt lie

For me coming right up to, and being so cautious as to avoid any actual lie is sort of more troubling than an actual boldfaced lie. It means you know it false and were well advised to allude to it but not come right out and say it. Maintain plausible deniability, while planting the seeds of the lie.
W is no fool ,but he plays one on TV.

[Paul Dlugokencky]

152. Bush put it in writing...

See Dalloway's post above, quoted here:
- - - - -clip- - - -
betweeen lying to the people, and LYING TO CONGRESS.

One is unethical. The other is LEGALLY CRIMINAL.

Read John Bonifaz on why there is a CONSTITUIONAL DUTY to impeach
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/17/162211/318

Nothing else matters than the fact that Bush lied in the letter he delivered to Congress after the invasion began and lied about the reasons he was going to war. He LIED TO CONGRESS, the body vested with the constitutional power of declaring war.

It doesn't matter what the MSM believed. What matters is what Bush put in writing to Congress.
- - - - -clip- - - -



http://www.cafepress.com/kickindemocrats

[WePurrsevere]

159. sorry.. wrong place n/t

[muchacho]

150. Rovian logic

as your adversaries call you on facts you first deny and stonewall until there is too much proof and then you admit to the fact in passing and change the subject.

Somwhere Nixon is smiling....

[cyclezealot]

154. we knew journalists were bizarre people for the most part.

called shifting the blame..a/ from bush to Democrats and from themselves....
so, the onus is not on bush for being the liar..and removes blame from them. it's ok to lie, but not ok to be suckered by a liar..journlists are a joke.

[JHB]

156. The "Old News" Gambit: Media SOP for failing to cover Republican Scandals

Why does this sound like deja vu all over again? Because it IS!

With every Reagan-Bush scandal of the 80's, and most particular Iran-Contra, death squad operations in "friendly" countries, and the Contra-Cocaine connection, the MSM parroted the Reagan WH propaganda line right up to the point where they'd just look stupid if they didn't allow that something possibly underhanded was perhaps taking place, and then they threw up their hands, declared it "old news" and "everybody knew that", and did their level best to sweep it under the rug rather than hold anyone accountable. You could practically hear a sigh of relief from media people when Bush41 made his "Christmas pardons" that removed any leverage Lawrence Walsh could use to carry his investigation forward in the face of solid opposition on nearly every side.

Fortunately, now we have "the internets" to try to make an end run around this self-serving willing blindness.

[WePurrsevere]

160. If you help cover up an act that you know is illegal...

that is a criminal offense. Any editor, publisher, journalist, reporter, politician or corporation that says "they knew Bush was lying" and did nothing or even worse deliberately covered it up should be held accountable for their aiding and abetting a criminal.

It is not the job of the media to report only what the government tells them. It is their job to investigate and report the truth and to make sure that information is heard by all. Their audience and readership should insist on nothing less.