There it is...Biden just said it on FTN...He intends to seek the

[Not_Giving_Up]

nomination in '08. I guess this explains why he's been on every Sunday morning talk show for last several months.

BTW: I'm sending Face the nation an e-mail. They open the show talking about the quagmire in Iraq, Bolton, etc, and ask WHERE ARE THE DEMOCRATS on these issues? Why don't they ask John Conyers?

[acmavm]

1. I don't know about anyone else, but it's likelier that I'd vote for

Hillary than Biden. And I'll NEVER vote for Hillary.

[lojasmo]

2. I agree, wholeheartedly

Add biden to a growing list of candidates I won't vote for....

Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, Gep, Joe,

Looks Like I get the fall of 07 off.

[UnityDem]

16. What about Gore or Clark?

I'm just asking?

[lojasmo]

22. Gore yes, absolutely....

Clark, dunno. I think if he didn't hold some other elected office, so that I could see how he legislates/governs, he'd have to repudiate statements he's made on SOTA and the use of depleted uranium weapons.

Then again, clark may have a chance, whereas clinton, kerry, edwards, gep, don't have a chance in hell of winning in the generals. I guess I could bring myself to vote for clark in a pinch.

[Hissyspit]

27. No one has a chance of winning if they keep stealing the elections. nt

[lojasmo]

48. Or if the democratic candidate insists on triangulating his/her positions.

Nobody wants to vote for somebody whos positions are incongruous with their actions, or otherwise anathemic to democratic values.

[LiberalAndProud]

11. If those are my choices, I'll write in my vote for Conyers. /nt

[Bush_Eats_Beef]

3. Guess what? I've got a FEVER. And the only prescription...

...ISN'T Joe Biden.



He should find a nice little cabin on a lake somewhere and go fishing with Joe Lieberman. They've both earned a rest.

[Capn Sunshine]

29. Is this necessary NOW?

We have to get some significant victories in '06 to make a race of 08.
Doesn't anyone understand until we fix the voting mechanisms it doesn't matter who runs?

[election_2004]

35. Yes, it does matter....

Because if the voting machines get fixed, yet the party elitists have already coronated Miss Inevitable, then grassroots participation in the 2008 race is pointless.

[lateo]

69. Indeed...

And "Democrats" like Biden are a major part of the problem...

[LittleClarkie]

54. Hey plagarism boy!

That's what knocked him out last time, eh? Won't it come back to bite him again?

[htuttle]

4. He's really trying to get that Joementum going!

:eyes:

Give it up, Joe. You blew it.

Both of you.

[Karmadillo]

5. I assume he wants to spur the formation of a genuinely viable third party.

n/t

[mazzarro]

6. Very Good!

Now we'll have the chance to show him where he should stick his quest for the nomination - WHERE THE SUN DOESN'T SHINE!

[rooboy]

7. Joemented. n/t

[Not_Giving_Up]

8. Here is the e-mail that I sent to FTN

Where the Democrats Are

Mr. Shieffer,

Today's Face the Nation opened asking "Where are the Democrats?" on several important issues such as the "quagmire" in Iraq and the nomination of John Bolton. Senator Biden was on, supposedly speaking for the Democrats in this country. No mention at all was made of the Downing Street Minutes and subsequent memos.
If you really want to know where Democrats in this country stand, why not invite Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) to be on your show? This brave man was shuffled down to the basement to a tiny room to hold one of the most important hearings in the history of this country, simply because the Republican leadership wouldn't allow him any other room. If you missed the hearing, you can still see it here: http://www.cspan.org/

If Rep. Conyers was unavailable, you could have sought out one of the many Democrats who attended, including Sheila Jackson Lee (D-TX), who apologized to Cindy Sheehan for ever voting for the war. You see, Mrs. Sheehan lost her son Casey to Iraq, and the apology was for voting for the war. Rep. Lee told this grieving mother that had she had the information in the DSM, she would never have voted for it.

Senator Biden does not speak for every Democrat. Howard Dean speaks for many more than Biden does.

[orleans]

24. good letter!

and i think it's true--joe has really lost his "base" (if we want to assume he had one to begin with)

does face the nation have a link online so we could see this video?

[isweetpotatol]

25. conyers, biden, on same page!

Didn't you see how greatly he handled the question about getting out of Iraq? He did what nobody else has done- offered a PLAN for getting out. Thanks to Sen. Biden, the press can stop saying "the democrats criticize this administration, but offer no alternative plan". I went to the rally to support Rep. Conyers this week, and I truly think he is wonderful. But I also think that he and Sen. Biden are on the same page about Iraq. Rep. Conyers and fifty other reps have established the out-of-iraq caucus. I think Sen. Biden and Sen. boxer among others will be the first of the senators to support them.

Quit whining about Biden and start actually learning about what he stands for.

Gosh, he really isn't as bad as everybody says!

[Donna Zen]

9. True he said he is running:

But first he has to check and see if the money will be there. Calling all credit companies!!!

My favorite part was a string of ideas that he gave with every last one of them having been said before by someone.... Now, who was that? Some General... Oh yeah, a Wes Clark.

Funny how Joe repeats what Clark has to say when it suits his purpose, but ignores him when Clark tells him not to give bush a "blank check" to go to war.

[Skwmom]

15. Doesn't Biden have a history of plagiarism?

I'll stay at home before I vote for a member of the "Blank Check Democrats." Political pragmatism is one thing, putting your own desire for power ahead of everything else is quite another.

[Donna Zen]

20. Plagiarism!!!

OMG say it ain't so joe.

That would be the joe who acquired the line: "...prancing on the deck of an aircraft carrier." That same polly-parrot?

Yes.

[chaumont58]

21. Ask Joe about Neil Kinnock

Noted British politician writes material for Joe. Of course, he wasn't really aware he was doing it, but what the hell.

[graywarrior]

10. Biden?

:rofl:

[Not_Giving_Up]

12. I do believe it's time to send Sen. Biden an e-mail

Explaining to him that he shouldn't waste his money...we don't want him!

[ElectroPrincess]

13. Oh please, is there any end to this BOZO's arrogance!?! /eom

[wryter2000]

14. That explains his fence straddling

I hope it's getting painful by now.

[merbex]

17. Meet Joe "Show me the Money" Biden

he said he'd only run if the money was there

[Not_Giving_Up]

18. I e-mailed him and told him to hang on to his money

We don't want him.

[Gold Metal Flake]

19. Let doll-head define the corner.

He's the right edge. And there he will sit, a marker, a bouy of sorts. Ignore him.

[isweetpotatol]

23. Divided again

I don't know if any of you are as addicted to C-Span as I am (C-Span 2) but I've been watching it for months and months and Biden is one of only about fifteen senators who actually have stood up for the Democrats. He's only voted with the republicans about ten times, and when he did, it was with senators like Boxer and Lautenberg.

If Biden gets the nomination, which I hope he does, I think it will be despicable if all of you don't help him out or don't vote for him. Even if you guys don't like him as much as I do, you should still support him because of what the alternative would be. My ideal ticket would be Boxer/Biden or Biden/Clark or Clark/Biden or Boxer/Clark or Clark/Boxer.. but I think Barbara Boxer shouldn't run unless the GOP runs a woman also. So if they don't, Biden and Clark are the most likely to win for us.

I don't want Hilary to win; she's not even finished with her first term. Biden is smart, accomplished, charismatic and well spoken. He could easily win over the vast majority of Americans who are moderates or who don't vote, and he's already got a vote from this new england liberal! I'll be so proud if I can cast my first ever Presidential vote for Joe Biden.

Anyway, we need to be united not divided. History has proven that the party that wins is the one that is united. If the democrats split over Biden, a republican will be a shoe-in. Don't let this happen. Support the guy, he's not as bad as you think.

[sendero]

30. Biden...

.... is another consummate politician with no real convictions. He drove the nail in the coffin of his bid for the presidency (before it officially started) by having the utter gall to disrespect Howard Dean.

We need another jerk who talks tough once in a while but folds like a paper napkin when it matters like we need a hole in the head.

His nomination is going nowhere, you can count on that.

[isweetpotatol]

31. no, no, no!

He actually didn't insult dean at all! I thought so, too, because I had missed the actual show he was on and only saw a clip of it on Late Edition with Wolf Blitzer. I was upset, since he's my second favorite senator, that he would say what he did, so i looked up the full transcript. turns out, he actually paid dean many compliments and said he's doing a great job! really, people, you need to get the whole entire story. start watching Biden on C-Span, reading the whole transcripts from shows, and looking at his record. the media puts a spin on everything and they don't want us to like him for some reason. really, we need to be united behind one candidate or the GOP will win. WE can win with Biden and we should sure try. Come on, guys, we are all open-minded here. we're democrats! if we need to hate a member of our own party it should be Nelson, Landreiu or Libermann, the three people who hardly ever vote on our side. why pick on Biden, who is constantly defending us? Didn't you see his defense of the filibuster? He even said that this administration was faulty, and that the senate SHOULD have been taking judicial nominations from president GORE. How many Dem's in senate have brought up that since 2000? yea, none. Come on, Biden is great and everybody here needs to wake up to that.

[sendero]

32. If you post a link..

... to that transcript, I'll read it.

But also I will say this. I've read a lot of stuff Biden has said over the last few years and frankly, we can do better.

Yes, he hits a homer now and then but overall he is very very very inconsistent and is just as likely to make an ill-timed conciliatory declaration.

I'm no longer interested in any "conciliation" with Republicans.

[isweetpotatol]

33. re: biden

Click here: http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_061905.pdf that is the link for todays interview on face the nation. As for the one about dean, 'This Week' (the show Biden was on) doesn't supply free transcripts, you have to pay $20, so I can only give you my word that he wasn't cruel to Dean. He merely said that we need to unite, not divide, and that Dean speaks for most of the Democratic party. He said that 'occasionaly' he doesn't speak for Biden. (not as most clips portrayed 'doesnt always speak for me' or whatever they said). He said Dean is doing a great job, too. I'm sorry I cant find that exact transcript, though. Also, try to watch some of C-Span 2 if you get it, because he's one of the only senators who actually shows up for work each day, and he's one of the only ones who shows up who actually talks. And when he talks, hes on our side. I promise.

[isweetpotatol]

34. re: me again

By the way, can anyone tell me why everyone hates him so much? I know about the plagerism thing, but i don't understand how that can make everyone spit venom whenever his name is mentioned.

[sendero]

40. The plageurism..

... I can forgive. It's a pattern of mealy-mouthed half-stances that leaves me cold. Biden is a master fence-walker, I'm just tired of those kinds of pols, the public see right through them and they aren't getting elected. Hillary's got the same problem.

[AntiCoup2K4]

59. He is a PNAC signator

And for that, there is NO excuse, ever. Being a PNAC signator after 9-11-01 is the equivalent of selling oven parts to Hitler in 1943.

[arcos]

65. Ever heard of the RAVE Act? nt

[isweetpotatol]

71. yes and it isnt that bad

yeah i heard of that one, but to me it sounds like it was just a mistake in wording. anyway, i do think there should be a crackdown on drugs in concerts. when i was little, my parents took me to all of their concerts with them and i used to have to cover my face with my shirt to keep from breathing in marajuana. anyway its ridiculous to condemn a man because of two votes. I think his record is pretty clean if you look at all of the other votes hes made

[arcos]

77. Two votes? He wrote the freaking bill!

I assume you support the war on (some) drugs?

"Mistake in wording"? You haven't read it, have you?

[isweetpotatol]

78. ?

Yeah, I did it was on talkleft. Well, I think that marujana should be legalized but then there should be a crackdown on all of the rest. It's a shame that people spend so much money on things that kill them, and if they need to learn that the hard way, so be it

[ieoeja]

76. He won't close ranks.

When asked a question about Durbin the first thing out of his mouth is about Durbin being wrong. THEN he goes on to attack the Republican. The Biden defense is "Dems are bad, but Republicans are worse".

Is that who you want to represent the party?

[Elidor]

45. Welcome to DU, isweetpotatol

Your loyalty to the man is touching. I'll refrain from overtly trashing him here (plenty of others will do it for me anyway), but frankly, I believe he is bought and paid for and uses a windsock to make decisions.

[isweetpotatol]

50. thanks-

yeah, i'm probably his biggest fan. (are we political people weird or what- most people have tom cruise fan clubs, we have howard dean fan clubs) anyhow...

dont you think there are worse people in the senate- like Frist or Lott or Alexander? And if we have to trash our own party, why not people like Nelson or Landreieu who always vote with the GOP? Also, I think Richardson, who is also trying to get DEM nomination, is more of a fence-sitter than Biden. At least Biden flat out tells it like it is, Richardson is puts the flop in flip flop.

Thanks for the 'Welcome', actually I'm not new to DU, I just read more than I post. (Especially Top 10 every week- which I send to every single person in my address book!) I just post when I feel passionatley about the issue, or if I have enough time. I actually don't have time today, but I posted anyway because I'm trying to put off what I know I have to do (college homework for five classes. ahhhh)

Anyway, I hope you guys change your mind. He's really great. (but i do agree about Hilary. I'm not fond of her, quite frankly. But if she got the nomination, I'd support her like she was the only candidate who had ever existed. I'm that determined to get the GOP out!)

By the by, you guys have to all help us out in NJ this year. It's Corzine vs. Forrestor for governor, and Forrestor scares the bejesus out of me. I'm going to the NJ Dems convention this week, so i'll let everyone know if theres anything out-of-staters can do to help. This gubnetorial election is actually really important. I think its one of only two elections nationwide where a democrat incumbent is up for re-election.

well i have to go but keep an open mind-

[orleans]

26. the last thing this party needs is sell-out

why don't we just all take a poison pill and end it if that's what we have to look forward to.

(or...canada is always another option. the southern townships of quebec are very nice, lot of country, slow-paced, scenic)

[tsuki]

28. I do not want a candidate that did not serve. We have had 8 years

of that. And the result, our troops are supplying themselves.

[isweetpotatol]

38. Both?

Do you think VP and President need to serve? What would you think of a Biden/Clark ticket?

[tsuki]

39. No to Biden. He is also a chickenhawk. Never manned the line.

But, oh so willing to send others in.

Clark did.

[Imagevision]

36. Kusinich and Edwards at least no what the hell they're talking about!

[woodleydem]

44. Oh yeah I forgot. Edwards brings all that foreign policy knowledge and

experience to the table. How dare Biden aspire to running for President with his six terms in the Senate. John Edwards is clearly more qualified with his whopping one term of political experience!! (note my extreme sarcasm)

[isweetpotatol]

52. lol- ditto

[Darkamber]

70. Personally, I would love a Edwards/Biden ticket

Or even a Biden/Edwards ticket. When I listen to them, they sound very much alike in some ways. Biden reminds me of a NE Edwards. They know how to speak and put their points across without making you hate them, especially the GOP. Instead you listen to them. They have the ablity to cross party lines.

One of the biggest problems with Biden is that he is a NE Senator and we really need to look to the south as much as I like Biden and I'm one of the few here who really does like Biden.

[isweetpotatol]

75. S-NE

I think Delaware is the southern-most northeastern state, though, so we might have a chance with him. Not likely they'd say 'those Delaware liberals' like they did 'Massachusetts liberal' with Kerry.

[proud patriot]

37. Oh dear

:think: :rant: NOOOOO :dilemma: :think:

[Overseas]

41. How dare Biden even aspire ?

He has compromised on so many issues--- we don't need another huge disappointment running on our behalf.

[Boo Boo]

42. Biden already took a shot at this once before

He was rejected then, odds are he'll be rejected again. I don't think Biden has any more chance of getting the nomination than Lieberman did. Both will be remembered as vanity candidates, IMO.

[woodleydem]

43. Say what you want about Biden, but he's the only Democrat I have heard

recently that has given an informed, rational, and concise critique on Iraq. And he doesn't just spout rhetoric all day. He has visited Iraq multiple times and has had several conversations with the Generals on the ground. And his extensive foreign policy credentials give him the credibility to make an informed critique. He has been extremely critical of Bush's handling of the war, but he also recognizes the simple fact that we cannot leave anytime soon. Leaving now would throw the country into a civil war (although I can't imagine that being worse than what it is now) that would not only imperil the lives of Iraqi civilians, but also allow terrorists to establish a base to recruit and train future terrorists. Bush completely screwed us over with getting us into this war, but unfortunately we have to finish the job. And Biden brings bonafide credentials to the table, probably more so than any potential 2008 candidate. Biden/Clark in '08?

[Donna Zen]

47. First up

Biden knew very well that Iraq was not a threat to this country; and he did know that bush would go to war. The DSM is no surprise to the people on the hill. It is my take that Biden was one of those who favored the policy of preemption.

His extensive credentials are worthless considering how often he is wrong. The invasion of Iraq was the greatest foreign policy blunder that our nation has ever made. What he said today was said by others months ago. That Biden fails to credit the source comes as no surprise.

Since we will not be leaving soon, it makes no difference what posture any of them are taking. Whatever it is, it is hardly about the troops or the needs of the country or the billions we are spending on blowing things up versus building our own future. It is about their egos.

[isweetpotatol]

51. friedman

Didn't he give credit to Tom Friedman on Face the Nation?

[woodleydem]

55. Don't tell the Democrats on Congress that the DSM was no surprise. Over 80

of them just signed a letter to President Bush asking for his explanation. The evidence was fixed BY THE REPUBLICANS!! Don't try to pin it on the Democrats. Yes, Biden is one of the more hawkish Democrats around. So what? Being a hawk in 2008 won't be a liability, it will be an asset. I can tell you that Biden isn't an idiot hawk like Bush. He has a clear rhyme and reason for what he believes. And it isn't some Johnny-come-lately fad policy because he thinks it will get him some votes. He has six terms in the Senate to back up his foreign policy credentials. I don't know if that will be enough to carry him to the nomination, but he should be given an equal chance along with Clinton, Clark, Edwards, Kerry, Warner, etc... and all the other contenders. There is no one candidate that is going to satisfy every Democrat. Let's hear them all out before discarding one or the other.

[isweetpotatol]

49. yay!

i totally agree! Biden/Clark '08! I'm setting up a cafepress store for his candidacy (i know nobody else here agrees but oh well)-- I want SO badly to be a delegate at the DNC in '08 if they are both on the ticket!

[LittleClarkie]

56. Kerry's credentials are at least on a par

and Kerry isn't a cartoon.

I just don't see it.

[woodleydem]

58. Biden has personality and speaks bluntly. Kerry often times comes off

as very aloof, and his personality is very wooden. I like Kerry and voted for him, and if he gets the nomination in 2008, then I will support him and vote for him again. But this is the reality in Presidential politics today: personality and likability can trump all. Biden's ill-fated 1988 campaign and plagiarism will be issues, but will it be any more so than infidelity with Clinton or drugs and alcohol with Bush? Probably not. Biden is a commanding speaker, (for recent evidence, see his recent speeches in the Foreign Relations committee against Bolton) passionate, and has a very likeable personality. All I'm saying is lets give Biden a chance along with all the other contenders (along with Kerry). Biden/Clark '08?

[LittleClarkie]

60. Personality alone won't make it

and the thing is, I find Biden undigified and obnoxious much of the time. How good is personality if it's not a GOOD personality.

He doesn't strike me as presidential.

[woodleydem]

61. Yes, you find him 'obnoxious.' But you don't necessarily represent the

entire Democratic party. Even though many here at DU think they represent the prevailing sentiment of the party, they in fact represent a small faction. I believe that most Democrats are taking a wait-and-see approach to the 2008 primaries, and will make their decisions after they have heard all the candidates make their cases. Many around here want to tar-and-feather some candidates they don't like, but it doesn't work that way. Let's give all the candidates a fair shot.

[LittleClarkie]

62. Just stating my gut feeling

we shall see how much of the party feels the same. You don't need to tell me who we do and do not represent here. I certainly hope we aren't representative of the base. I think we stand to the left of it frankly.

Nevertheless Biden tends to self-aggrandize. Show me someone who finds that an attractive trait.

[woodleydem]

63. I am also stating my gut feeling. And my gut feeling is that Biden would

do better in a general election than Kerry. That's just my opinion, to which you would obviously disagree. But you are completely right about one thing: DU represents the extreme left of the party, and that is not necessarily a bad thing. And to address self-aggrandizing: Are there two bigger self-aggrandizers in the modern era than George W. Bush and Bill Clinton? Or how about Ronald Reagan and LBJ? George W. Bush just won a re-election by self-aggrandizing his morality. (although I'm not sure how having a DUI on your record makes you morally superior) Self-aggrandizing to some people conveys a certain self-confidence and swagger, and that was something I felt as though was missing from Kerry's personality. All I am asking is this: let's give every Democrat a fair shot at the nomination without slandering them.

[gulfcoastliberal]

46. Mr MBNA?

Well at least we'll know where his campaign contributions will be coming from. Mr Screw-the-consumer bankruptcy bill mastermind and cheerleader. Fuck him and the ass he rode in on.

[magellan]

53. Did Biden vote for the bankruptcy bill?

For some reason I think he's a neolib, or a wannabe neolib...can't remember if it was this vote that soured me to him. We don't need any more neo-anythings in government (and that includes neo-fristians). The day we get back to true representation by real Republicans and Democrats is the day I'll stop worrying round the clock about the future.

[gulfcoastliberal]

66. Biden is straight outta Delaware

MBNA and INC capital of the USA. He vociferously advocated for the bankruptcy bill.

[funflower]

57. Biden? The '08 nominee? What is he smokin'?

:puke: :rofl: :puke: :rofl: :puke: :rofl:

[roguevalley]

64. I won't vote for him and none of my family either. Quiszling.

[newportdadde]

67. Another DLC, DINO shill.

Wonderfull.. we get another northeast longtime senator(ie plenty of voting records to mislead with). Deja-vu? This kind of crap will not work. We cannot win the presidency with DINO who is just Republican light.

He isn't going to run around banging the class warfare drum which is what we need. It will be near identical economic policies in most peoples mind and they will switch to 'value voting' ala points made by Thomas Frank.

Tell my bankruptcy bill and insurance money brown noser to stay home. Kiss national healthcare etc GOODBYE with Biden.

[CWebster]

68. He thinks very highly of

himself.

[NuttyFluffers]

72. he can suck my chewties, the bastard.

biden = no $ or support from me for his presidency. do it alone sellout biden.

[NYdemocrat089]

73. Why is he announcing this already?

It seems to me like this is way too early.

[renaissanceguy]

74. He's following the same path as LIEberman

so don't worry, he'll be creamed by the time viable candidates enter the race.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/428793

[Totally Committed]

79. I'm trying, even as we speak, to get on FTN!

Do you think if they let me announce I plan to be a Victoria's Secret lingerie model, I'll actually end up being one?

I can't wait! :rofl:

TC