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Clark Supporters, why we support him for President in 08

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usregimechange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:49 PM
Original message
Clark Supporters, why we support him for President in 08
I support him because:

He is not afraid to speak truth to power.

Because I met him and he seemed very authentic, intelligent, and compassionate. I met him in Springfield Mo.

I have to say his resume is eye ploping impressive.

Because I think he can appeal to many Americans and bring in some red states. There are a lot of blue counties in Arkansas and there is no reason whatsoever that we can not carry that state, his home state.

Because above all I want the best shot of winning in 08 and believe he is our best chance.





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BayouBengal07 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. True that.
He's got (hopefully) red state and (certainly) military appeal, he speaks like half a dozen languages, he's relatively (but not too) moderate, and he understands what he stands for.

He's got my support.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't support him yet.
I am still very open minded. We are still 2 full years away from having to take sides. Clark is good. So are Warner and Schweitzer. Hillary is impressive. Biden is one of the worst.

I think we should all stay open minded for at least 2 more years.
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autorank Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
3. Honesty, intelligence, an avowed "liberal," and I'd liketo WIN in 2008.
What more can you ask for? Well, someone with major foreign policy experience, someone with major leadership skills, someone with the ability to run large, complex organizations, someone who isn't afraid to take a tough stand even when he draws some heat.

Thats why we need...

NEW LEADERS FOR A NEW DEMOCRATIC PARTY

Contact the DNC and Tell Them to PREVENT Election Fraud
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. Are the not-yet-convinced to support DU'ers welcome to post in this thread
?
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:07 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Sure.
I'd love to have your questions about him addressed.

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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. Is he a neoliberal, like Lawrence Summers and Robert Rubin?
I suspect that, considering his articulation of American empire, among other things, that he is.

Also, why does he persistently describe American imperialism in terms of American troops' masculinity in his books, speaches and when he was a CNN commentator? The first paragraph of Chapter 6 of Winning Modern Wars is the perfect example of this.

Clark must be aware of the fact that he is repeating a century-old strategy (going back as far as TR's rough riders) that pro-imperialism Americans have used to make American citizens comfortable with imperialism (empire equals strength and virility and isolationism equals feminization of American men and weakness).

Furthermore, Clark's argument is very wishy-washy. He's pro-military and pro-"virtual" empire, but criticizes Bush. He has to walk a fine line between approving of masculine empire building, while finding things to criticize in the way Bush engages in empire-building. Ultimately, the argument comes down on both sides of so many lines that it ends up being incoherent.

People think Clark is what we need: a strong-on-defense democrat. But his ambivalence over empire confuses the real issue, which is the consequences of American imperialism. If colonialism was such a bad thing that European nations admitted that they had to give up their colonies, post colonialism (IMF imperialism) is no better for the world, and every bit as brutal and dangerous, and you can't talk honestly about Iraq or about American empire unless you talk about that. Does Clark talk about oil when he talks about Iraq? Virtual empire is as bad for the long term peace and prospertiy of every citizen of the earth as is colonial empire.

The Clinton adminstration had this same debate, with the Treasury Department and Summers and Gore aligning themselves with empire and post-colonialsim, and smarter, progressive democrats saying that America shouldn't impose the Washington Consensus (privatization, deregulation, and free market deterimining interest rates) on developing nations unless we really want an unstable world with a handfull of rich people who are much much richer and billions of very poor people.

In my mind, Clark's N.E.D. membership, both of his books, and his current career (in bankinga and in the media) have a common thread: he's uncritical, and somewhat enthusiastic about virtual-empire. He lines up with people like Lawrence Summers and Robert Rubin -- the people I think were the worst part of the Clinton adminstration. He doesn't criticize American imperial ambitions (or their consequences) so much as he criticizes how we achieve our imperial ambitions.

Another example of Clark's ambivalence about empire creating a confusin message is in his second book where he says, "It wasn't just the {armed forces'} technology that was breathtaking to much of the world. It was more the way the men and women in uniform handled themselves..."

"Breathtaking"? Really? Other than among Fox commentators, I don't think many people thought anything about the US military action was breathtaking.

Destructive, yes. If he wants to be nice to the military, how about Competent. Efficient. Effective. Those descriptive terms are closer to the truth. However, they are also debatable given the consequences of the invasion. How can you be awed by your masculine idealized soldier when the consequences have been far short of success? And doesn't that sort of imagery confuse the real issues? Of course it confuses the real issues. That's why it was such an important part of the cultural battle 100 years ago to get Americans to approve of empire building.

The way Clark praises (so persistently) the people in the armed services and the armed forces' capacity for destruction is not only the same cultural strategy the government and yellow journalists employed during America's earliest imperialist wars 100 years ago, it highlights the very awkward line Clark has to walk, which includes criticizing Bush while being pro-conquest. You simply cannot have an honest discussion about the costly consequences of America (military or economic) imperialism when you frame reality that way.

I don't expect many democrats to talk about these issues the way I see them, but there are still several democrats who don't give me pause on these issues the way that Clark does.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-21-05 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. ?
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. I'm off the Clark bandwagon.
Going to Faux cost him with me.
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Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Why?
I think growing the base is necessary - and he's doing it, from what I've heard from my Rep-Lite neighbors.
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Birthmark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Won't work.
Those who vote Republican are lost. No Dem will get them. The only chance is to appeal to those that *don't* vote. And the only way to get them is to come up with (gasp!) ideas that are going to benefit those people. Preaching to the current voter pool is a lost cause.

I also have an innate distrust of anyone who takes Faux's money. There are no circumstances under which I would accept a dime from that gang. If they unloaded a dump truck full of cash on my lawn, I'd have the bastards arrested for littering.
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Skwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. Hmmmm

The problem with appealing to those who don't vote is that they have to actually believe in the messenger. If the Democrats run another candidate that can be portrayed as a phony by the Republicans, they might as well just save their campaign money and actually donate it to the poor where it can do some good (because they won't be winning the 08 election).
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xultar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. So, I guess you just don't get it. Too bad you've cut off your nose to
spite your face.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. Please read my (sinking) thread.
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snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 11:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
14. Oh C'mon Birthmark!
Edited on Sun Jun-19-05 11:45 PM by larissa


General Clark hasn't changed !!!!!!

From what I've been reading on here, he's already got Sean Hannity throwing a hissy-fit and peeing in his pants!

I don't give a flying phuck which Network offered him a job.

The cameras in front of him don't change what's inside his heart.

Good luck with whoever you support in the future though.. '08 will field some awesome candidates! :headbang:
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haydukelives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:04 PM
Response to Original message
6. I saw him speak
at a Salazar(Coors Light) rally. Even got to shake his hand. I was VERY impressed with him.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-20-05 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Hey, I was at that rally and shook his hand too!
I strongly supported Miles in the primaries, but I fell into line with Salazar when the alternative was Coors. And I really appreciated Clark coming out to campaign for him.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jun-19-05 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well, I support Gen. Wes Clark for a whole host of reasons....
But I'm more interested in giving others at least one good reason to support him.

So here's just one:
Come '07, Many of the Democratic politicians candidates will be walking around talking up all of the great programs that they will want to institute if elected....and they will propose some pretty good Sh*t.

We'll hear about education programs, and programs for the poor. We'll hear about health care programs and about Stem Cell research programs. We'll hear about programs for the children.

We'll be listening closely, comparing programs and making a determination as to which we prefer, and which programs we don't. Who has the best ones, and how any of these programs will affect our lives.

BIG PROBLEM IS THAT THERE WILL BE NO MONEY in the treasury for any of these "Gee Wiz" programs.

Now, many of these same candidates will most likely barely address the issue of where the money will be coming from, until they are asked. By 2008, They and we, know that our Government will be damn near bankrupt (the GOP plan).

So where will the money come from?
What will they suggest?
Will they dare to mention "the third rail"....tax increases (hard to call them anything else after all of this time)?

Our treasury is broke, because most of our f*cking working capital is over at the Pentagon providing plenty of Helping hand "programs" for the Military Industrial Complex.

So then the question becomes; will any of those same smooth talking and promising elected politicians have the intestinal fortitude and Know-how to offer to go to the pentagon and get some of our money (like the BIG PORK), or will they be cowed (by just simply never mentioning the option) because they know that they have to PROVE that they are not SOFT ON NATIONAL DEFENSE by not daring to touch what there....and some (think Biden) might even propose raising the defense budget? That's usually what happens when you have something to prove....

It has been said before, and please know that you will hear it again....only Nixon could go to China....and I do believe that apart from McCain and Hagel (and I don't think that either will be very interested)....no other candidate (and absolutely no Democrat other than Wes) will have the gravitas and the honesty to actually even propose cutting the pork, and shifting the priority spending (to our veterans) over at the pentagon.

So maybe some think that if the "war(s)" go well, Clark will have no issue to run on....but I seriously disagree.

And if the War(s) does go well, then maybe Republicans win by default in 2008.
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