What is the deal with Clark?

[Jackson4Gore]

What is everyone's big deal with Clark? I have never understood it. Why does he garner so much support from Democrats here? He has been a Democrat only about 2 years or less so he doesn't have a lifetime dedication to the party as most do.

Please help me see his big appeal.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

1. He's a good man.

We are better for having him amongst us.

[Wetzelbill]

9. I'd rather have him a Dem for only two years than some of the current

clowns who only pretend to be members of the party.

[snowbear]

11. It's not just HERE - Clark is popular on most Democratic sites !!!

And WHOOOOOO cares if he was an Independent when he was in the Army???????

We sure as hell don't bash Independents when we're trying to lure their vote.

He was ---NEVER--- a Republican and that's all that matters as far as political affiliations.

He ROCKS and that's all there is to it !! ;)

[atomicdawg38]

103. Excuse my ignorance....

Don't they have to be non-political as a general? That's why the Pentagon brass don't ever applaud etc during the State of the Union speech. I really don't know I'm just asking.

[ClarkUSA]

48. George McGovern describes Wes Clark as a "true progressive"

George McGovern said it beautifully:

A man whose progressive policies on education, taxation, health care are in the finest tradition of the Democratic Party.

A man whose ideals, decency, and compassion are in the great tradition of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, and Bill Clinton.

A man whose life's work and devotion to America will serve as a beacon to our young and give pride to us all....

There are a lot of good Democrats in this race. But Wes Clark is the best Democrat. He is a true progressive. He's the Democrat's Democrat. I've been around the political block - and I can tell you, I know a true progressive when I see one. And that's why he has my vote.

http://www.clark04.com/press/release/193/

[lumpy]

55. McGovern 's support of Clark

is the greatest recommendation Clark can glean. This country would have been so much better off if NcGovern had been elected, a great American and statesman.

[MN ChimpH8R]

60. Yep..

If Wes Clark is good enough for George McGovern, whom I still revere as a great conscience of the party, he's good enough for me.

[Jim Sagle]

2. Unlike Harold Ford, he's a Democrat.

[Jackson4Gore]

Yea for 2 years? Ford has been for 34 years.

[LandOLincoln]

18. "It's better to be a new Democrat that's a real Democrat...

...than a lot of old Democrats up here that have been acting like Republicans all along."

--Al Sharpton, welcoming Clark to the party

[BlueStateGirl]

20. I agree. Zell Miller has been a Democrat for over 40 years. Wes Clark is

100x the Democrat Zell Miller is.

[ksclematis]

76. Anyody can register as a Democrat....

But it takes a REAL living, thinking, acting, promoting, voting "democrat" to be a REAL Democrat. Wes Clark is a REAL Democrat!

[nickshepDEM]

94. Miller actually used to be a HELL of a Democrat.

Just check out his 1992 DNC keynote speech.

[Cha]

100. Pretty much my thoughts!

Go Clark!

[Dinger]

115. I Remember That

And it's an excellent point.

[tuvor]

3. Why is his time with the party fundamentally important to you?

[Jackson4Gore]

6. Oh I don't know--he voted for Reagan twice and for Nixon.

[tuvor]

10. So what?

Plenty of voters switch between parties.

Not as if he's ever been a card-carrying Republican.

You didn't really answer why his two-years of being a card-carrying Democrat causes you so much grief.

[Jackson4Gore]

12. Because I don't feel right support somone for President

who voted for Ronnie Reagan twice along with other Repubs. Now I like Clark and everything, but I really don't see his mass appeal as it is here. He ran a poor campaign in 2003-2004 and is now on Fox News. I really don't get it.

[tuvor]

14. No one's asking you to get it. But

you seem fixated on who he voted for twenty years ago, and are COMPLETELY ignoring his voting record since then.

You seem to choose not to get it. Whatever. You do what you like.

[Auntie Bush]

59. So did I...and there is no one who hates Bush more than I and loved

and voted for Clinton 2 times and Al Gore. Don't tell me I'm not a real Democrat! That's like saying I'm a traitor for not toting the Rethug party line. I say that is pure B**S***. Comments suggesting he isn't a pure Democrat make my blood boil. Sooo knock it off!!!!!
or bo Cheney yourself.

[BlueStateGirl]

17. So? AL Gore used to hang around with Fred Phelps. Does that make him any

less of a Democrat?

[ksclematis]

78. Oh-Oh....

Please don't compare Al Gore to Fred Phelps!!! But, if you want to compare Zell Miller to Fred Phelps, then maybe you're on the right track.

Phelps lives in my "red" state, and he's a real disaster. I don't know how many democrats he's voted for or how many repubs he's voted for, but he's no Al Gore.....I've been a living, voting Democrat since before a lot of the bloggers here were born, and I voted for Reagan the first time. That once was a lesson for me, but I don't think that vote should condemn me for life....and yes, I did vote for Al Gore, and John Kerry since Wes Clark was shoved out of the primaries by the rightwing media.

[BlueStateGirl]

80. I wasn't comparing Al Gore to Fred Phelps. I was just trying to say that

Wes Clark may have voted for Nixon and Reagan, but that it does't matter. He doesn't taint him in my eyes.

Just like Al Gore's past association with Fred Phelps doesn't taint him in my eyes.

[LittleClarkie]

19. He voted national security

and as I said in another post, discovered that all he'd been told about the Dem party was not true. He was an independant. First a Repub leaning one then a Dem leaning one. Then a Dem.

You are not making Gore look better by trying to knock Clark. I'm all for criticism when it's earned. This is not earned. This is primary era misinformation. You make me less inclined to look at Gore when you downgrade other Dems. It doesn't make him stand any taller in my eyes.

[Skwmom]

26. Did you know that Edwards might have voted for Nixon?

Of course when put on the spot Edwards said he couldn't remember who he voted for (unlike Clark who told the truth).

On edit: Here's the link.

Garner remembers that Edwards was undecided about whether to vote in 1972 for President Richard Nixon or whether to vote for the Democratic challenger, Sen. George McGovern.

Edwards says he does not remember how he voted. But he says he might have first registered as an independent. He says he thinks he changed his registration to Democrat by 1976.

http://www.eurolegal.org/greendogdem/gdd0704/20040708gdd.htm

[Texas_Kat]

62. Wow!

I'd never seen THAT before.

Let me tell you. JRE and I are the same age. I guarantee you that (in 1972) you KNEW who you voted for since it was the first time 18 year olds could vote for president. An unforgettable experience,

That is, unless you didn't vote at all......

Hmmmm.

[fujiyama]

35. Reagan's reelection was in '88. And that would mean

that Clark last voted for a repuke president 21 years ago (unless he voted for Bush Sr., in which case it'd make it 17 years ago).

He claimed he voted for Clinton and Gore. Plenty of people switch party alliances throughout their lifetimes.

Now, I'm not quite as fanatical about him as some are here but I do see his appeal. He's a clear spoken former general that generally is not afraid to call the truth on the pukes and this administration. He's been a vocal critic of the war for one, and on other policy matters seemed liberal.

[dragonkeep]

83. How old are you? Have you lived long enough???

Has your philosophy ever changed as you learned more...experienced more? Are your eyes and mind open to events over the course of time?

I was raised in a Republican household. I voted for Nixon and Reagan. I was one of those Republicans in the libertarian wing of the party and became increasing uncomfortable with the corruption, the greed, the short-sightedness of the policy-makers in the Republican party. I cringed at the pandering to the evangelical Christians. The party was perfectly willing to sell out our liberties for grabbing the voting block of these people. It was easy to toss them the abortion and creationism bones - it would cost them nothing in consolidating the wealth and promoting the neo-con agenda and they would gain a huge set of fanatical votes. The irony is that the policies set by the Republican party actually hurts these people, though I doubt they will ever see it.

I changed my party affiliation with the Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas hearings and have never looked back. My brothers cannot understand my "change of heart". It's not as big a change as they think. My hopes for America hadn't changed but I couldn't getting there while riding the Republican elephant.

Wes Clark came out of a military life, a profoundly Republican experience with some serious penalties for not being part of the team. He had the integrity to be Independent, he's honest, and has come to see the Democratic party as the party that truly represents the American ideal. Please don't judge him harshly.

[LittleClarkie]

84. Look at the pic

(peterpuma)Oh, two or three.(/peterpuma)

Seriously, our friend doesn't look to be very old at all. Still bright eyed and bushy tailed, is he. Naive and pure. Ah, the joys of youth.

[dragonkeep]

85. I guess that answers my question...

I hope he keeps in mind that there are many and varied paths that brought each of us here and that diversity is part of our strength.

[Totally Committed]

86. He's just too young to have had his heart ripped out...

and stomped on by a "hero" yet.

He hasn't felt the agony of defeat enough to have all that righteous positivity knocked out of him yet. Ah, youth... I remember feeling everyone else was wrong and I was right, too. He may live long enough to be ashamed of judging us so harshly.... LOL!

When the fall comes, and it will, I will remember that fresh face... that naive pomposity... that absolute knowlege... and I will grieve his loss of all those things right along with him.

Youth really IS wasted on the young.

TC

[ClarkUSA]

96. Welcome to DU, dragonkeep!

Beautifully-said. Thank you.

:toast:

[Adelante]

104. You'd better report this to the Democratic National Committee

Right away!!

They were somehow tricked into letting a Republican give a speech at the last Democratic National Convention -- it was terrible, too! The audience couldn't even stay in their seats they were so appalled ... or is that (APPLAUSE)?

(APPLAUSE)

This hall, this Democratic Party are filled with veterans who have served under the American flag. And this is our flag. Right there, that flag, we saluted this flag. We rose up in the morning and stood reveille to this flag. We fought for that flag. We've seen brave men and women buried under that flag. That flag is ours, and nobody, nobody will take it away from us.

(APPLAUSE)

We are the party that America can trust.

(APPLAUSE)

CLARK: But we've got to tell the truth. And the truth is this: The safety of our country demands urgent and innovative measures to strengthen our armed forces. The safety of our country demands credible intelligence. The safety of our country demands cooperation with our allies. The safety of our country demands making more friends and fewer enemies.

(APPLAUSE)

The safety of our country demands an end to the doctrinaire, ineffective policies that currently grip Washington.

Enough is enough.

(APPLAUSE)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A25727-2004Jul29.html

[Totally Committed]

105. One of the greatest speeches, imo, ever given...

Wes was on fire that night, and the crowd loved him.

TC

[Sparkly]

4. What is the deal with (fill in the blank)?

"Please help me."

Come on, Jackson. I know a LOT about Gore, and was an ardent supporter. I know a lot about most prominent Democrats. It's not that hard to find out about Clark. :eyes:

[CarolNYC]

5. omg

Another Clark thread for the annoyed ones to complain about....Oy!

[LittleClarkie]

7. He's been a Democrat leaning Independant for longer than that

www.factcheck.org had a good article describing Clark's turning. He voted for Clinton both times. He discovered when he worked with Dems that they were nothing he'd been told they were. They were all about unity, while the Repubs were all about separating.

As for why we have so many here, disproportionately to his actual support, I don't know. It just happened I guess. Or the Clarkies like it here.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

8. He voted for Clinton twice, Gore, and Kerry.

Sure sounds like a Democrat to me. BTW, in Arkansas (and some other states), people don't have to register with a party. In those states, not having registered as a Democrat doesn't mean you aren't one. Voting for Democratic candidates is pretty good evidence, though.

[Tom Rinaldo]

13. This was asked of us on January 31st in this thread:

"Question for the Wesley Clark supporters......"

"can you folks tell me what drew you to Clark? This is not meant to flame or stir things up, but I never understood his appeal. For me he was a johnny come lately in the primaries who offered nothing more than a uniform. He grew on me a little, but I'd like to hear more from thoughtful supporters. Thanks"

There were over 100 replies, most quite thoughtful. It was a rare sincere thread for DU, almost free of trash talk from any side. If you really are wondering, please follow this link to that thread and read what was said there. Honestly, it's a good read:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1548301

[Texas_Kat]

15. Frankly I'm tired of some of the life-time Democratic officeholders

We've been waiting for a life time for them to accomplish some of the things they say they want to do, but never seem to get around to doing.

I've been voting for Democrats since 1972. But I've waited a life-time (almost) for a (not yet, but maybe) candidate like Clark.

[mdelaguna2000]

41. exactamundo. n/t

[BlueStateGirl]

16. Well, here's on of my favorite Clark speeches

http://www.securingamerica.com/?q=speeches/2004-01-19.

A lot of what appeals to me about Clark is right there in that speech. He has the politcal guts to call the 2000 election what it was... stolen. He isn't afraid of the Republicanattack machine and can bite right back. He didn't run away from Michael Moore or his comments about Bush being a deserter when a lot of other Dems did. He spoke up for Howard Dean last week, when a lot of others in our party did not.

You will either get it or you won't. If he doesn't appeal to you, that's cool. But if you are sincerely interested in learning more about the man, there is plenty of info on that site.
If not, well then I guess I've wasted my time.

[snowbear]

21. From Anneberg Research Site regarding the state of Arkansas--

"96% of all Arkansas voters express no party preference when registering. Party preference is “optional” on Arkansas’ voter registration form, and only 2.6% of the state’s residents were registered as Democrats at the end of 2001, according to the most recent statistics published by the Arkansas Secretary of State. Only 1.4% registered as Republicans.

Also Jackson, Norml, mike_c or other anti-Clarkies:

Please remember that General Wes Clark volunteered to relay the very private information of who he voted for, and more importantly, WHY he voted for that candidate.

Can you list 3 other candidates off the top of your head from '04 who were asked if they had ever voted for specific candidates and not specific parties?

I doubt you can even list ONE.

Why? :shrug:

Because ReTHUGS tried like Hell to make an issue out of the fact that the General had not voted straight down party lines. They didn't ask anyone else.

They wanted him OUT at all costs!

Can you imagine why??? A flakey national guardsman that they can't even find verify attendance records on, verses a 4 Star General ??? :wow:

It was no one's business who the General voted for. But because he actually responded to them with the truth -- Why should we hold that against him??

How do you know Harold Ford, Jr. has voted for Democrats his entire life? .....

Answer: You don't. ;)

[zulchzulu]

22. A lot of attractive women liked Clark that I knew

To be honest, none of them really knew his issues well at the time. Some didn't know that Kerry was a Viet Nam veteran and quickly adopted to Kerry when Wes endorsed him...in Madison...

I got to meet Wes on a couple of occasions and he's a very nice man. He wasn't my first choice for President....and I think it's way too early to think he's the BEST candidate for President in 2008. We'll see how 2006 plays out FIRST.

What happens if Wes stays on Fixed News? That kind of perked my ears a tad...do you have to disinfect payroll checks with Rupert Murdoch's name on it before placing on your person?

[snowbear]

24. I got to meet him too!

He was in Anchorage for 3 days over the summer.. then he headed to an undisclosed hot-spot for halibut fishing ;)

If he runs again, I'm sure he'll ditch the correspondent gig just like he did when CNN hired him (before the election).

:)

[Totally Committed]

82. "do you have to disinfect payroll checks with

Rupert Murdoch's name on it before placing on your person?"

What better revenge than to have your enemy subsidize your run against all he stands for?

Wes is a master on many levels.

TC

[Skwmom]

23. He's honest, intelligent, self-made, strong, compassionate,

a true patriot who cares passionately about this country and its citizens. He's NOT not a phony, lying self-serving political opportunist. I wonder what would have happened if the Republicans had said thanks but no thanks to Reagan? Why even wonder because of course they would never do that because unlike the Democrats -- they know HOW TO WIN.

Stupidity and self-serving political opportunism is killing the Democratic party.

On edit: My Clark group had conservative republicans to green party members. He has BROAD appeal. Unlike politicians, the more one learns about Clark the more there is to like.

[Skwmom]

25. Here's something I wrote during the 04 primary.

What is it going to take to clean up the corruption in Washington, to return our government to one working on behalf of the American people instead of drug companies and corporations?

What is it going to take to turnaround this country and to resolve the weighty issues that we face? Our domestic and foreign policy is in shambles. Millions of jobs our going overseas; however, our do nothing Congress and president have failed to act.

1. We need a man of substance.

A self-made man who got ahead in life the old fashioned way - he worked for it!

A Rhodes Scholar, 1st in his class at West Point, Masters in Economics

"He is unquestionably one in a million... He should rank with men like Douglas MacArthur..." Col. Charles G. Prather

"He is a national treasure" and "one of the top five most talented people" I've known. Gen Barry McCarffrey, Sum 2003

"Wes Clark has the character and depth to be another Marshall or Eisenhower.." Brigadier Gen. William W. Crouch

2. We need a man of action, not a man of rhetoric, with a track record of producing results and turning around troubled organizations.

3. We need an individual of impeccable integrity who can't be bought off by special interests groups.

My Enron Experience has brought home to me just how important the tone at the top is. integrity, he's not going to mislead the American people.. Sherron Watkins, Enron whistle-blower

Many have stepped forward to attest to Wes Clark's extraordinary integrity and moral character. (See American Son Video).

He has initiative, style, imagination, moral courage, and integrity each in extraordinary degree.... James T. Lynn, Director, Office of Management and Budget 1976

4. We need a fighter that will stand up for the American people rather than fall in line with the opposition.

Wes Clark is nobody's yes man, his ability to cut through b.s... I don't know any communicator better than he is. Col William J. Taylor Jr. (Ret. U.s. Army West Point Facility - excerpt from American Son).

He will have the welfare of the American people writ large always in his heart and in his mind. Col William J. Taylor Jr. (Ret. U.s. Army West Point Facility - excerpt from American Son).

5. We need a man that can rally the citizenry and our elected officials to put aside partisanship and do what is right for this country.

He has a.... remarkable ability to lead and motivate.. James T. Lynn, Director, Office of Management and Budget 1976

He rallied 19 countries (including bitter enemies) to stop ethnic cleansing.

6. We need to send a leader to Washington not another politician!!! The last thing Washington needs is another politician.

WHAT THIS COUNTRY NEEDS IS WES CLARK

The attacks against Wes Clark have been shameless and fierce (when he isn't being ignored by the media). They know he is the candidate who has the best chance of beating George Bush in the general election and that it will no longer be business as usual in Washington when this man is elected President. Wes Clark will be a President of and for the people.

[snowbear]

27. Awesome skwmom!! Save that...

... you never know.. you may need to dust that off and use it again in a couple of years! :hug:

[Skwmom]

29. That would take a true miracle but one can always hope :)

[lumpy]

56. Skwmom, great post

You have researched Clark. Now if all voters did that we might get better leadership results. THank for the post, I'm saving it.

[Clark2008]

28. Chris, my friend, you have my email

I will write you and send you the links.

It's not about party or purity - it's about the right man for the job.

[FrenchieCat]

30. Far as I am concerned, he was born a Democrat.....

Cause his daddy was a Democratic activist and such in Chicago when Wes Was born. How's that for Party 'purity'?
"He was very active in politics in Chicago, and a University of Chicago graduate," said Harriet Salk, an older cousin of General Clark who lives in a suburb outside the city. "And what a tall, good-looking guy."
http://sdlusa.com/sdl/clarkjew.htm
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,6903,1046348,00.html

The man was in the Army....not in politics. Being an independent is what he should have been.

In addition, Clark doesn't suffer fools easily....
and that's what I've been seeing a lot of for quite some time in politics--Fools!

"He doesn't suffer fools easily and wouldn't have allowed the dilettantes who convinced Dubya to do Iraq to even cut the White House lawn."

"I called him a "Perfumed Prince." Only years later did I discover from his book and other research that I was wrong."
Col. David Hackworth
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34738

[lojasmo]

43. Strange that he voted republican many times, then, no? EOM

[ClarkUSA]

47. Strange how ex-Gov. Jeanne Shaheen (D-NH) voted for Nixon, no?

Yet she was the head of Kerry's National Campaign Committee last year, right?

Strange how many Reagan Democrats vote GOP these days, huh?

Wes Clark has voted Democratic since 1992. That's 13 years to you and me.

I wish I could say the same for alot of registered Democratic voters.

[lojasmo]

49. Well, I've been voting democratic ON EVERY TICKET

Since I have been able to vote. That's 19 years to you and me....never a slip to the republican side.

My post was in answer to the "born a democrat" post.

[ClarkUSA]

52. <self-delete due to following dupe post >

[ClarkUSA]

53. That's great but not everyone has and there's nothing wrong with that

IMO.

I am not one of those Democratic Party Purists (not saying you are, btw), especially since I was a lifelong Green-leaning Independent until I joined the Democratic Party in 2003.

If I were, I guess I'd have to admire folks like Lieberman and Biden instead of Michael Moore.

I feel that this political pedigree crap is just that, crap, when you see what many Democratic Party bluebloods in the Party are doing and saying now.

It's the same rationale that makes the DNC turn their backs on perceived "outsiders" to the system.

F*ck that and f*ck the shortsighted smug Party Purists who think they are better than Wes Clark or me because they have been registered Democrats longer.

Let them go vote for Zell Miller, who's been a registered Democrat a lot longer than I've been alive.

[lojasmo]

65. True, but to imply that Wes was a "democrat from birth"

Is utter pablum, given his voting record.

Hell, I'm not even a democrat, per se. I thought I was, until I joined the democratic party here where I live...what a bunch of stodgy old centrist sticks in the mud.

I'll keep voting for democrats for a while, though....and when I stop, it'll be greens for me....not republicans.

[ClarkUSA]

66. It may be considered a figurative truth to some given who his dad was

The General's father was very active in Democratic politics until his sudden and untimely death when young Wes was only 4 years old. Benjamin Kanne, who served in WWI as an ensign, was alderman of Chicago's Fourth Ward in 1927 and a delegate to the Democratic Convention in 1932.

Read more:
http://demopedia.democraticunderground.com/index.php/Wesley_Clark

You are literally correct, though. I'd like to think that Wes Clark came home to the Democratic Party. I also think his dad would be pretty proud of him right now if he were still living. :)

I understand how you feel - I'd feel pretty frustrated in your place but fortunately, my local and state Democratic Party is pretty activist, so I can't complain. We passed a county resolution against paperless-trails on our electronic voting machines last August and my town also passed a resolution against the Patriot Act last year.

Hang in there. You are a Democrat, just not like the ones you see around you but there are alot of kindred spirits all across the country.

:toast:

[Pepperbelly]

92. Actually ... he pretty much was a Democrat until he got into the army.

The whole family were FDR Democrats.

[windbreeze]

58. Lifelong Dem...but

I voted for whom I thought was the best man for the office...and put party aside to do so, more than once...was I wrong...who knows...but your vote should not be dictated by the party you belong to..no one should blindly follow where someone leads...and I, at times, am one who wished for a viable third party to cast a vote for, someone who spoke for me....which Clark now does, and the Democrats are fortunate to have him...there have been many times...since Kennedy, that I have been disturbed with how I see our representatives voting, and how their actions seem the opposite of what I wish for and wonder who they are thinking about...their constituents, or their best interests...In fact, after Kerry folded up and went home with about $15 million in his pocket...I began to wonder if there wasn't something more powerful and important about the Skull/Bones organization...than even representing our country is...

As for Clark, I see him as an excitement for the Dem base, that I haven't seen for a long time...I have supported him since I heard this man, who's voice caught my attention, speaking on CNN...and actually stopped to listen to the pure sense this unknown man was making(see that's the trick, you have to listen to what he says, and you have to watch the example he sets with his actions)...it was only after I came back into the room to see who it was, that I became familiar with Gen.W.K.Clark Ret....that was early in 2003..and I have been on his side ever since. First time I ever contributed, or actually worked for a candidate...First time I ever wanted to travel across country in the dead of winter to meet a candidate..I was not disappointed...First time I ever attended a local caucus...and from what I read, there are a lot of first timers at everything political associated with Gen.Clark...could that possibly be a bad thing?

I am tired, no, I am sick to death, of the status quo in politics...It's time for us to realize that the bigger and more powerful these guys get who hold office, the less they are concerned with US...and this country's gov't is supposed to be OF the people, BY the people, and FOR the people...Time to take that price tag off the WH, eliminate the gov't for rich people..and get back to basics, and show compassion for our fellow man..with a man who truly understands what it's about to be one of us, who served honorably in the military, and in a war or two(who better to understand to avoid war at all costs)and yet has political knowledge, is well respected internationally, who also has an understanding of economics, and who can, when speaking make even the smallest mentally capable person understand what he's saying and connect with them...who better I ask? Or are we truly happy to just follow blindly, because that way, we don't have to take the time to think for ourselves? The easy way, is not always the right way...
windbreeze

[AX10]

102. I find him to be inspiring.

We need someone who can lead us to greatness, someone who can give us a sense of true purpose as citizens.

[Auntie Bush]

61. BULLY for you! Does that make you a better Dem than me?

I think not! Reagan was a Dem once too. That didn't seem to bother the Rethugs. Also since he had such a large majority...a lot of Dems voted for him but don't like Rethugs anymore. Are those millions of people all poor/untrustworthy Democrats? If so...Dems will never have a majority.

[lojasmo]

64. doubt it.. I never said that.

At any rate, you'll see that my post addressed a person who claimed that clark was "born a democrat" or some such crap.

Since he had a long stretch of republican votes in there, I just thought I'd point that out.

[ClarkUSA]

67. Excellent point about Reagan and the Dems who voted for him

Wes Clark is a man who's political past alot of Americans can understand and accept because it may mirror or parallel their own.

:thumbsup:

[Crunchy Frog]

31. You know, he doesn't appeal to everybody,

so just because I find him appealing and try to explain it to you doesn't mean that you will understand. I'm not really sure how open you are to understanding either, from the tone of your OP.

I will tell you the truth. I was so unenthused by Gore in 2000 that I voted for Nader. I have been drifting away from the Democratic party for awhile. I have been very bothered by the way Dems keep caving in to the Republican agenda and running scared from their ideals, and all of the purity in the world hasn't stopped them from that.

When I finally hear a Democrat articulating my own beliefs and standing up strongly and proudly for traditional, core Democratic values, it really means something to me, and I don't give a rats ass what his level of "purity" is. Joe Lieberman is pure, Joe Biden is pure, heck, until his latest stunt at the RNC, Zell Miller was a pure Democrat. I just don't care that somebody's been a pure Democrat all their lives if they haven't been standing up for what I recognize as Democratic values.

I admire the man because he's willing to call a spade a spade. He's willing to say that it was wrong for us to invade Iraq. He called out PNAC and talked about how Bush had been planning on invading all along, and he got roasted by the media for it. He defended Michael Moore and his right to speak out at a time when everyone else was treating him as a pariah. He called out Karl Rove in one of the most moving speeches I have ever heard. And when it was time, he bowed gracefully out of his presidential race and pretty much dropped everything else in his life to work his ass off for the Kerry Edwards ticket, and other Democrats.

I admire him because, although he came from very modest circumstances, he chose to dedicate his life to service of this country, making a very modest income, and living mostly in crappy housing in crappy military bases, moving his family around constantly when, with his brains and experience and education, he could have made a killing in the private sector.

People keep calling him a political opportunist, but if that's what he was, he would have thrown his lot in with the Republicans who would have been absolutely thrilled to have another 4 star General in their ranks. The Republicans are the party of power and the Democrats are in the worst state of decline in living memory. I believe, and many other people here believe, that Clark chose to throw his lot in with the Democratic party because he's a man of principle, and he truly believes in the values that this party has traditionally stood for.

As far as his "only having been a Democrat for 2 years", as I said, I don't give a fuck about purity, but you should know that almost nobody in Arkansas is registered by party, so that's a bit of a red herring. He's been voting consistently for Democrats since 1992, including in Democratic primaries. And for me, he articulates Democratic principles better and more effectively, and in more of a way that resonates with me, than any other Democrat.

If you're genuinely interested in learning more about him, as opposed to just complaining about him on a message board, here's two places where I suggest you look for more information.

http://www.clark04.com/issues/

http://www.u-wes-a.com/

[Skwmom]

32. Clark a political opportunist?

The Democratic party is awash with self-serving political opportunists which is why Clark is such a breath of fresh air.

[Clark2008]

34. As a Tennessean, Chris should know that we don't have to pick

parties.

Great job, Crunchy! :thumbsup:

[lojasmo]

33. Phhhht. Who knows? I have an instinctive affinity for him....

Though I'll be very unlikely to caucus for him or work for him in the primaries due to his lack of history as a democratic activist or office holder.

Would I vote for him in a general election? That remains to be seen.

[JNelson6563]

38. I do prefer a little sweat equity too

Locally I am always more willing to put our party resources behind someone who's been in the trenches with us as opposed to a walk-in who's suddenly struck by the urge to run. Had this conversation a few weeks ago re: local election coming up. I think the reasoning is applicable to any political situation.

Julie

[ClarkUSA]

45. Wes Clark has put plenty of sweat equity for the Democratic Party, IMO

Sorry you don't think so, Julie. :eyes:

[lojasmo]

50. hmmm....not sure about that

He worked hard to serve his own interests when he ran for the nomination, but I don't see him working for the democratic party now....isn't he working for faux news? :eyes:

[ClarkUSA]

57. hmmm, I am sure about that but DNC Party Purists may not think it's enough

But who cares what the DNC Party Poo-Pooing Poobahs think?

We both know some People Never Change, but most liberals are fair and openminded, thank goodness.

<<He worked hard to serve his own interests when he ran for the nomination..>>

Huh? He wanted to be President and ran for the nomination. If that's serving his own interest, I have eight other Democrats I could name right now who were serving their own interests, some of whom did so for much much much MUCH longer in this respect than Wes Clark's four months.

<<but I don't see him working for the democratic party now...>>

You must have missed CSPAN yesterday when they broadcast General Clark's recent keynote address to New Hampshire Democratic activists at the Manchester Flag Day Dinner just last Sunday, which was when he, unprompted, defended Howard Dean and the Party against recent criticism.

Tomorrow, General Clark will be joining Former Secretary of the Navy John Dalton and Congressman Gene Taylor in attending a campaign kickoff fundraiser for Democratic congressional candidate Eric Massa.

Oh, and in two days, on June 22nd, he'll be appearing at 10 PM at UN Task Force Congressional Hearing and then General Clark will attend a fundraiser and evening reception for Democratic Congressman Lincoln Davis (TN-4) as a Special Guest on Wednesday, June 22nd:

http://www.securingamerica.com/?q=event

People don't know what they don't pay attention to, but those of us who do are glad to shed some light whenever it's needed. :patriot:

<<...isn't he working for faux news?>>

Yes, for a whole four days now! Thanks for noticing. :)

And he's already defended Durbin last Thursday and openly disapproved of Bush and his administration's wars yesterday in his two appearances there, which never would have happened on Fox otherwise. He's speaking Truth To Power, as usual.

That's pretty good, don't you think? I can't wait for his next appearance which happens to be tomorrow at 2 PM:

http://www.securingamerica.com/?q=node/178


It's good to know that there's at least one liberal Democratic voice on Fox who will unapologetically defend other Democrats against the GOP mouthpieces, isn't it?

I only wish Wes Clark had been on Fox News a week earlier than last Thursday so he could have defended Dean, too.

:hi:

[lojasmo]

63. Thanks for the info.

:hi:

[Adelante]

69. Just lately

April 5th: "Path of a President" Dinner, Clinton Presidential Library, Little Rock - keynote speaker

April 6th: C-Span "Washington Journal" speaking on US policies on Iraq

April 8th: Association of State Democratic Chairs Quarterly Meeting, Little Rock - guest speaker with Chairman Dean

April 9th: Arkansas Democratic Party/Arkansas Young Democrats "Grassroots and Grits" breakfast

April 9th: Alabama Democrats/Grassroots dinner at Doe's in Little Rock.

April 11th: Testimony: House Armed Services Committee on leadup to Iraq War

April 11th: Announcement Forum: House Democrats' GI Bill of Rights for the 21st Century

April12-15th: US Naval Academy Foreign Affairs Conference - featured speaker

April 16th: SoCal Grassroots/ 4 Star Democratic Club WesPAC fundraiser

April 16th: California Democratic Party Convention

April 18-19th: Global Economics conference, Los Angeles CA; "Global Overview" panel; "Emerging Europe" panel

April 21-23rd: Eurasian Media Forum. Global politics and the role of mass media.

April 23rd: Visit with President Nursultan Nazarbayev in Kazakhstan. Discusing bilateral relations, economics, democracy.

April 26th: Bill Mayer "Real Time"

April 27th: NDN conversation with General Wesley Clark about America's Role in the World...at the home of Chris Heinz in NYC,

April 30th: White House Correspondants Dinner in DC.

May 4th: Center for American Progress, Washington DC, Homeland Security and Data Revolution - featured speaker

May 5th: Groundbreaking ceremoney, Lea County Democratic Party headquarters, Hobbs NM

May 5th: New Mexico Jefferson Jackson Dinner - keynote speaker

May 6th: The Atlantic Council and the Embassy of the Federal Republic of Germany --"Germany and NATO: The Next 50 Years" - speaker

May 13th: Arkansas Democrats Khakis & Catfish event

May 14th: Associated Press Editors Luncheon

May 14th: Democratic Party of Arkansas 2005 Jefferson-Jackson Day Dinner

May 17th: Mississippi Delta Grassroots Caucus in Washington D.C.

May 18th: Chicago Council on Foreign Relations-

May 18th: A New Strategy for America-- speaking engagement, Chicago

May 21st: Keynote speaker at ACLU of Georgia Annual Bill of Rights dinner:

May 23rd: Jimmie Lou Fisher Campaign Debt Payoff Fundraiser

May 24th: Interoperable Communications and Emergency Preparedness Conference, Phoenix AZ

May 24th: Arizona Democratic Party Press Conference with Veterans

May 25th: Arizona Democratic Party "Democratic Vision" Speech, Burton Barr Central Library, Phoenix

May 28th: Democratic Party Memorial Day Radio Response

May 30th: Al Franken radio show

June 6th: Ed Schultz Show

June 12th: Annual Flag Day Dinner-Manchester City Democratic Committee, NH- Keynote speaker

June 14th: Emergency Preparedness Communication Conference, Houston TX

June 19th: C-Span "Road to the White House"

June 21st: Fundraiser for Congressional Candidate Eric Massa

June 22nd: Testifying --UN Task Force Congressional Hearing

June 22nd: Fundraiser for Congressman Lincoln Davis, Washington, DC, special guest

June 25th: Be The Change-USA/Douglas County Democrats "Celebration of Democracy" in Colorado - special guest

June 27th-July 2nd - 78th Annual League of United Latin American Citizens National Convention -guest of honor

July 5-10th: Aspen Institute Ideas Seminar




=====

Advisor, US Congress Democratic National Security Advisory Group

Congressional Task Force on United Nations Reform

Stop Global Warming Virtual March

Vice Chairman, US Crisis Group

[ClarkUSA]

70. Wow, that's 43 separate public events from April to July 5!!!!

Nice work.

:thumbsup:

[Texas_Kat]

74. Does he ever sleep?

Seriously..... !

[Pepperbelly]

93. he was on the road non-stop for Kerry-Edwards.

What the fuck is he supposed to do right now?

[JNelson6563]

75. Sure, he has been an eloquent

Dem spokesperson for a little while now. I surely appreciated some of his comments during the primary especially.

My own view of it is not meant to be derogatory toward Clark. It's like a situation I have here locally. Do I want the bulk of resources going to a candidate who's new to the political scene, had never offically joined the local party but swears he's "one of us" or to the candidate who's a long time member, on the board, played the role of treasurer in local campaigns, helped in many fundraisers, and very active in city politics etc?

There are degrees of sweat equity. Just sayin'......no need to be defensive, it's not just about Clark. More a rule of thumb sort of thing.

Cheers--

[ClarkUSA]

88. There's a reason I like Wes Clark - he's not a part of the Party machinery

I don't take the measure of a person by how long they've been in politics or how active they've been in the local, state or nationwide political scene.

:eyes:

Longtime DNC Party affiliations or insider local Dem friendships are of course something others might consider as weighty credentials, but I see in your statements the kind of insider reasoning that exactly mirrors the DC Beltway, where longtime Democrats who are perceived by others to have paid their dues feel as if they deserve to be "rewarded". Sorry, been there, saw that in 2000 and 2004 (I don't recall other elections - I'm not as old as those who use the term "Tiger Beat" ;) ).

Being a complete outsider to the DNC until recently, I could care less about voting for career pols, be they local, state, or national politicians.

A few examples of why the insider-dues "rule of thumb" are not relevant to me:

1. Jon Corzine still ran for Senator when people in the NJ State Party were measuring him sneeringly with their career pol "rule of thumb" and found him lacking. But he won, and he's been a great Senator and soon will be Governor.

NJ learned a valuable lesson and the State Democratic Party has since discarded their insider "rule of thumb sort of thing".

****

2. "Democratic lawyer John Edwards completed an unlikely rise from political obscurity Tuesday, upsetting incumbent Republican Lauch Faircloth to win North Carolina's second U.S. Senate seat....The most notable victory, though, belonged to Edwards, a Raleigh trial lawyer making his first bid for office. Unknown a year ago, Edwards had never been active in politics and voted in only half of the elections over the past seven years."
http://www.jregrassroots.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t2230.html

It's a good thing that the NC State Democratic Party didn't have an insider "a rule of thumb sort of thing".

****

3. Many candidates that were endorsed by DFA last year were complete newcomers to the political scene. One high-profile case that I know of involved a Congressional candidate named Steve Brozak voted for Bush in 2000 and switched affiliations to the Democratic Party only months prior to being named a Dean's Dozen candidate. Steve Brozak was the only Congressional candidate who was asked to give a speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention, btw.

It's a good thing that the DNC and DFA didn't use an insider "rule of thumb sort of thing".

****

My non-rule of thumb:

The Democratic Party should open themselves up to all talented individuals who want to run for office no matter what their political pedigree as long as they are passionate and sincere. Democratic Party clubby types should start appreciating the influx of new blood as well as those important individuals who are working hard for the Party no matter how recently they joined the Party.

Just sayin'... :)

[JNelson6563]

106. Seniority does not equal sweat equity

Just sayin'....

Here's an example. Say a county party suddenly was really rocking. Incredible year, amazing growth and prosperity. The moving force was a new member of the party. This person put in a couple of years, the county's reputation for success spread statewide, candidates start coming forward and winning, thanks in part to the amount of resources the party can now provide. So we're talking a relatively short time but big positive change achieved by someone not even an officer of the local party.

Ok so city commission elections are coming and the activist decides to run. Another candidate declares too, never been a member of the party, never helped with the efforts just declares their liberal views and is looking for support.

Given neither had major flaws (i.e. felony record) I personally would be far more likely to enlist with the one who had already invested so much sweat equity in the cause.

Not all of us are elitists, demanding a perfect political pedigree, though I understand your efforts to paint my view that way. Want my support for anything? Earn it. A basic "rule of thumb" for me. If you've got issues with such simple criteria we are unlikely to come to agreement.

Julie

[ClarkUSA]

112. See again my reply #88 to you re: what I think of your "rule of thumb"

I find any party insider's "rule of thumb" to be irrelevant to real-life voting by ordinary grassroots Americans. Please review my previous post for the reasons why.

In particular, note my real-life examples #1, #2, and #3 in my most recent post (#88) as why I think your "sweat equity rule of thumb" is unimportant in judging the true worth of a candidate - it is used by party insiders to rationalize voting for their friends and Party colleagues over fully-qualified candidates who often times have better chances of winning the election.

Just sayin'....

[Tom Rinaldo]

90. 2006 comes before 2008

Clark will have another chance in 2006 to throw his weight behind Democrats nationwide and I fully expect him to do it and I know he will be urging his supporters to do the same. I just take that all as a given. It is important to support the Party. Clark knows it and he will be out there fighting for Democrats in 2006, along with almost all DUers I would hope.

Continuing good luck to you in Michigan, but I know that you are making your own luck through hard work.

[LittleClarkie]

91. A good start on the 12th

with his bold statement of support for Howard.

I'm glad to see he's re-emerged. He was so quiet for so long, I thought he'd died. Media just didn't seem interested in what he was doing for a while there.

[JNelson6563]

98. Thanks Tom

And you're right. 2006 is a great opportunity for Clark to make a difference.

Cheers-
Julie

[dogman]

108. Electability being equal, you might have a point.

However, if the long time member is unelectable due to the majority of voters not finding him/her suitable for the job and the new person demonstrating knowledge and dedication and appeal to the majority of voters, I would recommend the new person. Unless running is more important than winning and you think rewarding a stalwart is worth losing.

[Texas_Kat]

114. Not to be argumentative at all

but I think one of the reasons that DU and other non-mainstream Democratic outlets are successful is a direct outgrowth of the frustration we all feel with the "Washington Branch" of the Democratic Party. That particular reference is not aimed just at geographical "Washington" politicians, but at many in the party who are more interested in 'partying' than revitalizing the party from within.

I don't know about you, but Democratic party functions here are all full of 'lifers' who have had their hands stuck out for years expecting to receive 1) favors 2) money 3) more favors and 4) power.

The same faces, the same inaction, the same "politics of personal influence". I'm not willing to reward the 'same ol' faces' just because they've been around for a long time. If the Democratic party has had a severe lack of leadership in recent years, you can lay the problem at the feet of these self-same, self-serving, self-congratulatory lifers.

I'm very surprised to find you promoting the idea that longetivity is the best measure of effectiveness. Dean's (and Clark's) grassroots understood the old adage "all movement is not forward progress" and welcomed new ideas and new participants -- regardless of whether that person was new to politics or had been involved a long time.

I don't think you meant to say that leadership should be 'those who have been here the longest' democrats and new activitists must put in their 'sweat equity' and wait their turn. But that's what it sounds like.... Please explain.

[illbill]

36. I can't stand Clark...

Overrated, a fmr. Republican, and would be labelled as a "flip-flopper" so badly by the Republican Party in 08 that it would be pointless to run.

[ClarkUSA]

44. You are 100% wrong about Clark being "a fmr. Republican"

Clark has voted Democratic since 1992 and was a lifelong Independent until
October 2003, when he became a registered Democrat.

Get your facts straight before you start spouting off.

If anything, Wes Clark has been underrated.

[LittleClarkie]

81. No votes to base "flip flopper on"

And many supported Bush before they woke the hell up about the war. I'd be interested to hear how Clark framed the debate on that one.

[Clark Bar]

99. Is that you seventhson?

Your comment reminds me of that fella,eh. I think Clark's run at the Presidency would just do fine.

[Dinger]

118. Some Questions For You:

Overrated by who? Democrats?
Aren't former repuglicans welcome in our party? Yeah, it's not like we need extra votes, why woory?
The reppuglican party says he's a "flip-flopper," and that's all you need to hear to believe it?
Why would it be pointless for a person who: led a war where no U.S. servicemen/servicewomen died, saved 1.5 million ethnic Albanians, is a Rhodes Scholar, co-wrote the Dayton Peace Accords (diplomatic experience), put Milosevic in nthe hague, had humble beginnings - and had an understanding of the struggles of the "average American," is the most decorated serviceman since Eisenhower (putting his life at serious risk for others), has teaching experience (taught economics at the college level), has business experience, has politically-related leadership experience (NATO Supreme Aliied Commander, among other things), has economic expierience (in OMB in the White House), has the support of my hero John Conyers (& other heroes), has military experience (yes, that's a good thing), etc., etc. I have to stop somewhere. You have you opinion, and I respect that. It's just that I respect mine more.:evilgrin:

[wyldwolf]

37. How much to do know about Al Gore?

See, I've never been one to critique someone's "liberalness" or "DINO" credentials. There is no such thing as an idealogically pure Democrat.

That being said, I like Al Gore but could probably mention things about him that would taint his image a bit to those who believe he is the ideal.

This is coming from someone with considerably more than 2 years in the party. Trust me.

[election_2004]

39. I like him....

Although I don't understand why some people here treat him like a god. I think he'd be a strong candidate, but not the strongest.

That being said, Clark (tied with Warner) would probably be my second-choice for the nomination, right after Blanche Lincoln.

[sendero]

40. He doesn't have a lifetime..

... of assimilation into the Washington machine that takes the fire out of everyone.

IMHO, nominate someone OUTSIDE the Washington apparatus. It worked for Carter, Reagan, Clinton. And who else?

Seriously, those folks in the senate are the worst possible choices, their minds have been warped by playing the game.

[JHBowden]

42. I tihnk Clark's website linked DU during the primaries.

It used all Clark AND Dean here all the time, but a lot of the Dean supporters were purged and/or left during the primaries.

[QC]

46. According to your profile, you were here during the Great Primary Wars,

so you were around to see the points you have raised asked and answered many hundreds, even thousands, of times. That's why I find this reshashed thread a bit puzzling.

[pkspiegel]

51. Who cares?

He has an adult lifetime of REAL service to this country, extensive leadership experience in many arenas, and cares about our country and the people in it. He is brilliant and a REAL patriot. The length of time with a specific party affiliation pales alongside what Clark brings to the party now.

[lumpy]

54. I voted for Nixon, so what?

When he was running against Hubert Humphrey. Hunphrey was sounding very much the war-hawk; Nixon appealed to a lot of people because it was felt he really wanted to get the hell out of Vietnam.
I had never voted for a Repub before and haven't since. However, if I had it to do over again I might vote the same way.
I was born, raised a Democrat since my father was actively in politics and a New Deal man all the way. I consider FDR the greates American of the 20th century because of his dedication to social reforms. So that's where I am, and plan to stay, a supporter of the Democratic party. Until something better comes my way at least.
My husband was born, raised a 'black republican'. He finally saw the light after educating himself (with a little bit of help from me).
So don't go judging people on who they might have voted for. People do have the ability to see the light.

[bettys boy]

68. The Dem establishment and base BOTH lost touch

with average Americans. Needless to say this includes Al "Image Makeover" Gore.

Wes embodied for me a break with Democratic baggage on matters of core importance to Americans - patriotism and national security.

Moreover, he represented a chance to re-frame progressive policies as being congruent with flag-waving, apple-pie American values.

[OnionPatch]

71. His speeches

He stands up for Democratic principles better and stronger than most Democrats!! When he talked about being proud of being liberal on the Bill Maher show, that clenched me. Other than the fact that I agree with most of what he says and the way he says it, I just feel a gut feeling that he's a good person. Maybe that shouldn't count, but it does with me.

[ClarkUSA]

73. Hey, Onion Patch, Wes Clark agrees with you about "gut checks"

In today's Salon.com "Life of the Party" series, they published an interview with Wes Clark, where he says:

"The Democrats do a good job at the local level, but when you get to the national level, we've got to be a party that puts America first -- before any of the particular issues we like to talk about in our party. Democrats talk a lot about policy. But those policy issues, you know, they seldom decide a national
election. National elections are decided on convictions. They're decided, ultimately, on a gut check the voter makes. It's not head, it's heart, as the voter goes into the booth and says, Who's the best person and what's the best party to entrust the future of this country to?"

There's a thread here that is about this interview:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1869916

[Adelante]

72. You've had a lot of answers

Somehow I don't think it matters, though, because your OP doesn't seem sincere to me since you use the same old, same old misleading crapola against Clark.

However, before I leave this thread, I would like to tell you why I would never again vote for Al Gore. It's that scene in Farenheidt 911, the one where the Black Congressional Caucus members are begging for the Senate to back them in Florida. Al Gore banging down that gavel on all our dreams and hopes. I can support almost any Democrat, I have never voted anything but Democrat in any election in 38 years, I have never not voted in an election, but if Gore gets the nomination, I stay home. He doesn't deserve it.

[ClarkUSA]

79. Gore also personally asked Barbara Boxer not to object to the 2000 results

She said, in hindsight, she should have ignored Gore's request, and gone ahead and objected anyway. Boxer said she was sorry she didn't. Boxer apologized for that error of judgement in 2000 during her speech on January 6, 2005.

[Totally Committed]

95. He did ask for her not to challenge the results...

Aren't any of you tired to the teeth of these candidates who just would rather give up and go away than fight the good fight?

Goddammit, people! I am tired of belonging to the Party of wimps and apologists and appeasers. I am tired of supporting candidates who live on their knees begging fo the big, bad neo-cons not to hurt them anymore, or for the big corporate interest to keep backing them so they remain "viable"!

Start supporting the candidates that fight for YOU, fercripessake!

I want to be the Party that WINS next time, and then takes back the White House in '08. We cannot do it if we keep nominating/supporting politicos who live on their knees.

Clark, Boxer, Conyers and Dean!

TC

[Uncle Joe]

116. Al put the law above

his own interests in the scene from Farenheit 911, no senators would come forth to sign for an investigation of the coup in Florida. If anything this scene shows Al's deep love for the Constitution above his own interests, or his party's, with Al it is the nation first. Instead of condemning Al for that action on the senate floor, you might ask what happened to all the Democratic Senators that had more important things to do.
You might also thank the man for being the primary champion of the technology that is allowing us to communicate the way we are and democratized information. Lord knows he paid a heavy price for it with the media monopoly that trashed and slandered him since 1998 because he took some of their power away and gave it to the people. If you think that we are having a problem today trying to get to the truth re: 9/11, Iraq, Florida 2000, Ohio 2004 etc. can you imagine doing it without the internet.

[FrenchieCat]

117. Pu-Leaze!

Stopping other people from doing what they think is right....is not "Loving the Constitution".....

[Uncle Joe]

119. Maybe you can tell me then

Why would a man do such a thing as to ask his supporters not to challenge the obvious voter fraud in Florida? Logic would tell me that it is not because he was power hungry like so many others. He saw the writing on the wall whether it was the Republican controlled Florida legislature with their dual set of electors, the Republican controlled Congress which would surely have ruled against him or the Republican controlled Supreme Court which decided that an arbitrary date was more important than determining the will of the people. Unfortunately we did not have a real Supreme Court like the Ukraine.
What short of a revolution would you have done?

[xkenx]

77. BECAUSE NOT SINCE BOBBY KENNEDY

have I been so inspired by a public figure as I have been by Wes Clark. Anyone who would like to be so inspired in a way not seen in a public figure since Bobby Kennedy, should watch Wes Clark's keynote speech to a Flag Day gathering of Dems. in Manchester,NH last weekend. It was on C-Span Sunday, and should be in their archives shortly. www.cspan.org
This is an awesome display from a man who WILL NOT ALLOW the Rethugs to claim the flag as theirs. He goes on to touch on a range of Dem. values to be promoting. In 2008,40 years after RFK, we will have our man reviving the RFK following.

Not since Bobby Kennedy.......

[iwantmycountryback]

87. He's a General and is opposed to the war

It's also humorous for a person who loves Harold Ford to question how much of a Democrat Wes Clark is.

[Totally Committed]

97. "It's also humorous for a person who loves Harold Ford...

... to question how much of a Democrat Wes Clark is."

Amen and hallelujah! Yes, indeed.

TC

[AzDar]

89. Frankly, I don't care what consonant is in parentheses next to someone's

name these days....This Administration is so hideous, corrupt, and ORWELLIAN that if Strom Thurmond himself came back from the crypt, and began telling the TRUTH about things (like Gen. Clark does)that are currently happening to our once-glorious Nation, I'd vote for the old, decomposing son-of-a-bitch in a heartbeat!!
A man of integrity, honesty and intelligence like Wes Clark is a rarity these days..practically a National Treasure!!

[AX10]

101. Because Clark is one of us.

Historically, he was an independent. He voted for Nixon in 72' and Reagan 80'-84' on the 'national security' issue. He admits that he was too quick to give them the benefit of the doubt on the issue, but because he was a military man, he backed them, even though he disagreed with them on the domestic front.

...what George McGovern said:

"A man whose progressive policies on education, taxation, health care are in the finest tradition of the Democratic Party.

A man whose ideals, decency, and compassion are in the great tradition of Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, and Bill Clinton.

A man whose life's work and devotion to America will serve as a beacon to our young and give pride to us all....

There are a lot of good Democrats in this race. But Wes Clark is the best Democrat. He is a true progressive. He's the Democrat's Democrat. I've been around the political block - and I can tell you, I know a true progressive when I see one. And that's why he has my vote."

Remember, Clark became a full-fledged Democrat under Bill Clinton's stewardship of our nation. They are very good friends. He backed Clinton twice, Gore in 2000, and proudly campaigned for his fellow veteran John F. Kerry in 2004. He has raised a ton of cash for us too. That's one thing that he never did for Reagan and Nixon. He gave them his vote but not one dime of money or campaigning for them.

Clark is one of us at heart. I trust him to lead our nation.

[zulchzulu]

107. Clark could kick Al Gore's ass in a Gitmo Death Round....easy....

Kidding.

[Hippo_Tron]

110. Clark could probably kick Jesse Ventura's ass in Gitmo Death Round

He may be a little guy but I bet he knows some crazy ass martial arts stuff.

[Tom Rinaldo]

109. When the media jackals attacked Michael Moore, Howard Dean, and

Dick Durbin, Clark did not disown any of them. He did not condemn them, he did not lecture them, he did not apologize for nor did he disassociate from any of those men. When in each case the political/media mob enforcers came to Clark's door expecting their "protection money" statement of denouncement, Clark wouldn't give it to them. He stood his ground for Moore, for Dean, and for Durbin. Clark was absolutely alone within the Democratic Party standing for Moore when the mob went howling after Michael for calling Bush a deserter in New Hampshire, and Clark was damn near alone in making NO apologies for or about Dean or Durbin.

That says something about Clark to me.

[CarolNYC]

111. Nicely stated.

Sometimes I think I don't realize just what a rough time it was for Michael Moore when everyone was pillaging him from both sides. It's very moving to read Moore's comments even now about how he felt when Gen Clark unexpectedly stood up for him when no one else would dare to. It's like Clark pulled him out of some dark hole or something.

Sometimes I feel that's what Clark did for me too. I was in a very bad way, almost in depsair about the future and seeing no way out, when I found General Clark...and suddenly, it seemed, there was hope again. I think I've lost a lot of that hope in the intervening months but it's still there....sometimes.

[CJCRANE]

113. Clark tells it like it is

For instance, on the Iraq War, he said flat out it was an "elective war" (i.e. a war of choice not necessity) that didn't need to be fought.