DINO

[wyldwolf]

DINO. Now that's a confusing word. It's always applied to Democrats by "Democrats" when said Democrats don't vote the way some think they should or take positions some think they should. With purists like these, someone can be labeled a "DINO" one day and a liberal messiah the next day based on a single vote or statement.

Often, they speak of "Democratic ideals" and have a short list of issues that a Democrat must pass muster on to be a "real Democrat." Sometimes they have a point. Sometimes they don't.

But I know who the real DINOS are...

The real DINOS are the ones who threaten to vote third party if their vanity candidate doesn't get the prize.

The real DINOS are the ones who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 and 2004 because, after all, Democrats and Republicans are the same and we need to lose some elections to teach us a lesson.

The real DINOS are the ones who would actively campaign against a Democrat without thinking what the consequence could be.

The real DINOS are the ones who refuse to understand that the Democratic party has always been a big tent with a myriad of ideas and places on the political spectrum.

The real DINOS are the "my way or the highway" crowd.

And these DINOs can be the most liberal or the most conservative among us.

You don't have to like a particular Democrat, but if the magnifying glass you're using was suddenly placed over your Democrat of choice, you just might find something you'd consider disturbing there. If you're honest.

So the next time you consider using the word "DINO," just remember that history is cruel mistress and you might want to check the "DINO" bones in your guy or gal's closet first.

Remember this as we head into the '06 elections and then the '08 election.

[jmaier]

1. Amen.

[Der Blaue Engel]

2. Thank you, wyldwolf

About time somebody said it.

[marbuc]

3. I'll second that

Part of the reason Congressional Democrats are so skittish is they constantly worry about parts of their base bolting when they sneeze the wrong way.

[Bark Bark Bark]

Thank You

Some liberals can be as pedantic and absolutist as any neoconservative. They will try to paint you as Zell Miller's lover or Liebermann's pet; don't let 'em get you down.

[AntiCoup2K4]

4. More spinning from the desk of Big Al.......

[welshTerrier2]

5. " The real DINOS are the ones who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 and 2004"

one might even refer to many of these people as Greens ...

[AllyCat]

33. Hmmm..then I guess I'm a DINO because I voted Green in '00

Well, then so be it. I voted for who I felt was the best candidate and I did it in '96, too.

In '04, I saw how important it was to get B/C out of the WH. Even though I didn't like Kerry much, I ACTIVELY worked for his campaign and for MoveOn to get people to the polls.

If that makes me a DINO, well, then I guess you'd think I should take my energy elsewhere in '06/'08? :eyes:

[welshTerrier2]

35. i think you've misunderstood my post ...

i did NOT refer to those who voted for Nader as DINO's ... that was a statement made by the base poster ...

if you look at my post you responded to, you'll see that my subject line is in quotes because i was repeating the statement from the base post ...

i was trying to point out the absurdity of the statement by indicating that most people who voted for Nader were Greens ...

[AllyCat]

42. Meh! I hate it when I do that. I read your post, agreed, and then...

responded to you instead of the original poster. Sorry! Thanks for the clarification!

[noiretextatique]

45. right, which means they weren't democrats

so they can't be democrats in name only :eyes:
logic is something that is often missing from one side of the great nader debate :hi:

[no name no slogan]

6. Oh jeebus must we poke this bear?

When a Democrat votes for the Republican position, I will call her/him a DINO.

When a Democrat votes against the interests of the environment, against unions, against a sane foreign policy or against the interests of working families, I will call him a DINO.

When a Democrat votes for welfare "reform" that doesn't help eliminate poverty but puts welfare recipients into non-living wage jobs, I will call her a DINO.

When a Democrat thinks that diplomacy is best defined as "shoot first, ask questions later", I will call him a DINO.

And when a Democrat votes FOR an act that violates the constitution, you sure as hell better believe I will call her a DINO.

:rant:

[Drnaline]

7. Sounds like some of my family.

[Al-CIAda]

8. Indeed.

:thumbsup:

[wyldwolf]

10. I think the bear needs to be poked

After all, the "DINO" bear gets more than poked here on a daily basis.

When a Democrat votes for the Republican position, I will call her/him a DINO.

What is the determination of a Republican position?

When a Democrat votes against the interests of the environment, against unions, against a sane foreign policy or against the interests of working families, I will call him a DINO.

How about against free speech?

When a Democrat votes for welfare "reform" that doesn't help eliminate poverty but puts welfare recipients into non-living wage jobs, I will call her a DINO.

So, is it only voting for it the qualifies one as a "DINO" or would DINOness be cast upon one for proposing it?

[no name no slogan]

14. Grrr said the bear

What is the determination of a Republican position?
If it's in the GOP party platform, it's a Republican position. If it's against the interests of Americans who pay more in income taxes than in capital gains taxes, it's a Republican position. If it seeks to profit the richest few at the expense of the rest of us, it's a Republican position.

How about against free speech?
Check the Democratic party platform. That's in there.

So, is it only voting for it the qualifies one as a "DINO" or would DINOness be cast upon one for proposing it?

I gotta question your motives if you believe that poverty-wage jobs are good for anybody but the rentier class. They do nothing to help the poor, and are nothing more than a welfare handout to the companies that don't pay living wages to their full-time employees. Welfare should be used to benefit those who are unable to help themselves-- NOT politically-connected corporations who can earn their own profits. After all, isn't that what free-market capitalism is all about?

[wyldwolf]

16. so let's be specific

What have Democrats done that is in the GOP party platform?

Does backing an amendment against flag burning make one a DINO?

Does proposing welfare reform make one a DINO?

[flpoljunkie]

9. That would be "pass muster," wyldwolf.

As for your post regarding DINO's and purists, it is our responsibility as Democrats to steer our party back to the Democatic party ideals we hold dear--namely, economic justice. This nation is dangerously off kilter.

If Democrats cannot distinguish themselves from Republicans in their votes, and you know I am speaking primarily of the recently passed bankruptcy bill, what good are they?

I intend to hold their feet to the fire. If they cannnot vote like Democrats, they cannot call themselves Democrats and expect my support.

[wyldwolf]

11. though I don't disagree with your post...

...I must ask:

Is economic justice the make or break issue?

What are these "Democratic party ideals" you speak of, who has determined what they are, and who are "we?"

[flpoljunkie]

12. Damn straight. Economic justice must be the core principle of our party.

The other core principles to me are tolerance and respect for others, especially including those who are disadvantaged, and respect for the environment--our planet.

[Senior citizen]

13. So instead of DINOs we should call them what they are: DLC

Thinking about NAFTA (and the upcoming CAFTA), welfare reform, and all the Democratic votes to authorize the Iraq war, I'm not ready for "my party right or wrong."

My respresentative, Congresswoman Susan Davis (D)CA is supporting CAFTA. I've written and called Susan's office and said that if Davis votes for CAFTA, I will never again vote for Davis. And I mean it. If there's no other Democrat running, I'll vote 3rd party. I go by the "first do no harm" principle, and CAFTA will hurt us plenty. I can't vote for anyone who supports it no matter what their party.

With all the jobs already lost and the jobs now being lost, we don't need legislation that guarantees more job loss. This is a life and death issue because people can't survive and support their families without jobs. If that makes me a DINO in your eyes, fine, but remember what I've said when your own job gets outsourced.

We need to push the Democratic party to grow a spine, not just go along with anything the DLC puts out as the party line. I'd actually rather not have a Democratic president who pursues the illegal war in Iraq, "reforms" Social Security, and supports the rest of the puke agenda, but is the candidate of the Democratic Party and gets elected under that banner, because it would be the death of the Democratic Party. If we're going to pursue the puke agenda anyway, let the pukes do it.

[wyldwolf]

15. ok...

Are you prepared to call any Democrat that supported NAFTA, proposed and/or voted for welfare reform, and voted for the IWR a Dino or DLC?

[Senior citizen]

17. Nope, but I wouldn't trust them with my wallet either.

Come to think of it, there are so many Democrats who supported NAFTA, proposed or voted for welfare reform, and voted for the Iraqi War Resolution, that it hurts my head to think about it.

Shoot. I was a Democrat when I woke up this morning. Do I have to go down and change my voter registration to Green tomorrow?

Thanks a LOT, wyldwolf. :sarcasm:

[wyldwolf]

18. thanks for being honest...

...so how do you decide which of the NAFTA supportin' welfare reform proposin' IWR votin' anti-flag burning amendment proposin' DOMA supportin' Democrats are DINOS and which ones aren't?

[Senior citizen]

24. Actually, I'm not involved with party politics right now.

I'm involved with electoral reform, going on the notion that if our votes don't count, it doesn't matter who we vote for.

BUT, the problem is that a lot of times we're voting for people for Congress, which is not a democratic institution.

So while I'm actively trying to get rid of Diebold & ES&S and substitute an open source, verifiable, transparent election system here in California, I'm concerned that I may be wasting my time because we're electing people to Congress where they have little or no power to represent us. In the U.K., for example, Parliament can summon the Prime Minister and he or she MUST answer their questions, there and then, face to face. That sure seems a lot more democratic than having to fight for the right to even ask the question, and then finding that you're not going to get an answer anyway.

Another example is that if we manage to elect a Democrat who cherishes Democratic (and democratic) ideals, and who really wants to represent us, and this Congresscritter manages to get on an oversight committee and has the top clearances necessary to be privy to confidential information, and learns from that information something of the utmost importance that it is urgent that we, as citizens, know, the current rules preclude the critter from sharing that information even with their colleagues, and they're definitely barred from sharing it with us. So what good does it do if they know? To top it off, they're probably not able or allowed to check to see if the information is accurate, and they're not in a position to do anything about it. So how the hell can they represent us?

So I guess you're right. I'm a moran to be targeting people, no matter how they vote, when it is the entire system that is corrupt.

On the other hand, I look at John Conyers, Maxine Waters, and the rest of our champions, and I know that they would fight for us no matter what kind of system we had, and whether they were elected or not. The question isn't whether I can find and help elect more people like them, but if I can somehow find a way to help this country get a more democratic system of government in which people like them could demand and get the same kind of responses Members of Parliament get in Great Britain. If we don't have a mechanism for holding the government responsible, we don't have democracy. Right now, the only mechanism I know of is impeachment, but in order to get that we'd have to retake Congress, so I'm right back to election reform.

And around and around we go. Care to dance?

[lojasmo]

19. Yawn....

There you go defend the DLC again.

What a snooze.

[flaminbats]

21. like start a new democrat fellowship council and stuff....

:popcorn:

[ElectroPrincess]

29. Yes, the DLC will soon learn the meaning of loneliness ...

it's going to be a mighty small coven soon. Hint: people are fed up with the present leadership and LEAVING in large numbers. duh <wait for it> THUD!

[lojasmo]

34. I won't be working for or voting for any DLC type ever again. EOM

[iconoclastic cat]

20. I live in Chicago. I know a bit about DINOs.

[Andromeda]

22. Good food for thought, wyldwolf.

A politician is only as popular as his/her last vote.

[flaminbats]

23. you plagiarist!!

:spank:

[rucky]

25. actually they're the opposite of DINOs:

they're Democrats in ideology, but not in name.

[lostnfound]

28. So true! nt

[ebayfool]

26. Recommended - avoided clicking on this thread all night, because I

thought it was going to be another "my way or the highway" screaming hissy-fit thread! LOL

After going through some of the 'kick em out of office_dino_elect a real dem' posts tonight, I peeked at freeperland. If you didn't look at the names, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference between which pol was being thrashed - ours or theirs. You could cut & paste the rants & insert the politicians name of choice & not be able to tell which came from DU or the freep-pit. A depressing similarity.

Thanks for the voice of reason, it stands out among all the foot stomping & hair pulling!

[emanymton]

27. Happily Democrat In Name Only!

Given how the Democrats ?Leaders? in Congress are complicit in passing corporate welfare give-aways while not supporting the individual, bankruptcy laws that protect corporations but destroy the individual, supporting GOP destruction of the educational programs and voting for the Patriot Act, I am happy to be 'labeled' DINO.

People are important! As long as the the Democrat Party (DP) tries to be GOP-Lite, label me DINO everytime. When the DP take Big Tobacco's money, take Big Oil's money, take HMO money, take pharmaceutical industry's money they then cannot accuse the GOP of being worse because they are better at it. Bribery may be legal in Washington D.C. but it is wrong for USA.

What are the differences between DP and GOP?

Until DP remembers the people, color me DINO.



Bush Lied. People Died. Media Cheered.

[rman]

30. So by your definition Politicians cannot be DINOs?

But only voters can be DINOs?

Isn't that interesting.

[jonnyblitz]

36. interesting point.

snicker.

[starroute]

31. It's known as keeping the Democrats honest

I grew up in New York City in the 50's when creative ticket splitting had been raised to an art form.

It was generally recognized then that the Platonic ideal, if you will, of the party of FDR was not necessarily the same as the actual practice of Democratic politicians -- and that it was up to an informed citizenry to keep the two as much in synch as possible.

That generally meant voting for a carefully crafted mixture of mainstream Democrats, anti-Tammany reform Democrats, and honest Republicans. It might mean voting for a Democratic candidate on the line of a third party which had endorsed that candidate rather than on the Democratic line. It might mean going with a third party outright -- but with careful consideration as to whether the goal was to actually drive an errant Democrat out of office or just to send them a message by shaving their margin of victory.

My parents used to spend hours in advance of the elections, poring over sample ballots and arguing the fine points. Are you going to tell me my parents were DINOs? They and people like them were the soul of the Democratic Party.

One of the fundamental rules of politics is that politicians can't be trusted. Anybody who engages in politics without taking this into account is just asking to be abused. The truly honest ones are never more than a tiny handful -- and they tend to be either marginalized or quickly kicked upstairs into some appointed position or judgeship. With rare exceptions, the ones who stick around are indifferently honest at best and outright corrupt at worst.

At present, the national Democratic Party is massively corrupt. They're not as outright evil as the Republicans, but they are just as much in the pockets of the corporations. What good would it do us to drive Bush out of office and take back the Congress if all it gets us is a bunch of sharks who smile sweetly as they screw us instead of sneering and insulting our mothers?

Democratic Underground today is what my parents and their friends were 50 years ago -- the spiritual center of the Democratic Party. But in order to be a spirutual center you have to be, shall we say, answerable to a higher power -- which in this case, is the Platonic ideal of the party of FDR. You have to follow the imperatives of that higher power wherever they lead you, even at the cost of expediency. And you have to constantly test yourself and those you support against the ideal you are pursuing.

This isn't rocket science. It's easy enough once you set your mind to it. Its what the conservatives did all through the 60's and 70's, when it seemed they were cutting their own throats by being extreme purists and refusing to accept the entrenched Republican establishment of the time -- and it's how they got the power they have now. All it takes is having the courage of your convictions.

The real meaning of "DINO"? A would-be Democrat with no convictions, no courage, and no soul.

[yodermon]

32. You can bandy about labels until they are bereft of meaning.

If by "Democrat" you mean DLC type, and by "DINO" you mean one who stands on principle, not on a reactive platform framed by 2 decades of right-wing talking points, then yeah, call me a DINO any time. sheesh.

[CWebster]

37. Oh, the irony

"The real DINOS are the ones who refuse to understand that the Democratic party has always been a big tent with a myriad of ideas and places on the political spectrum.


The real DINOS are the "my way or the highway" crowd."

[staticstopper]

38. DINOs are centerist/or way left like a commie.

Maybe we should try to work on the greater problem that the term "democrat" is a dirty put-down in all in the media.

[ibegurpard]

39. Nowhere in that self-congratulatory rant

did I read anything about any particular principle or policy you would expect someone you put your trust in to lead to adhere to. I have to wonder...what is YOUR breaking point?

[nothingshocksmeanymore]

40. I really tire of that "big tent" rhetoric taken out of context

Exactly what was it that made us the "big tent?"


It was minority rights...including gay people
Women's rights
Affirmative action
labor rights
environmental issues

All the things that Al From calls radical special interests. So next time you invoke the "big tent" defense, perhaps you want to consider from whence it came and consider the degree to which Al From and his band of corporatists have attempted to minimize and silence every corner of that so called "big tent"

[CWebster]

41. On the nose

It would be akin to stating that if you didn't include those who reject diversity, you could be accused of exclusion.

A DINO is a Democrat in name only precisely because they reflect a Republican agenda while adopting the label of Democrat.

Talk about infiltration.

[welshTerrier2]

43. those are all "fringe groups"

"big tent" Democrats need not concern themselves with all those whiners who put their own "holier than thou" ideals ahead of the Democratic Party ...

stop being a purist ... do you really believe that, just because you have your "pet peeve" little issues that you're better than the vast majority of Democrats???

oh, btw, please add the anti-war extremist lefty minority fringe to your list ... there are at least a handful or two of us out there ...

[noiretextatique]

46. well, i think this means

you're a DINO, according to the OP :hi: i'm a NADBVFSD
(not a democrat, but vote for some democrats)

[lojasmo]

44. I've just decided to call them republicans.

Clinton, Kerry, Edwards, Gephardt...the whole goddamned crew. Anybody who helped Bush stage this war is no longer a democrat in my book....fuck them all.