I do not blame Senator Durbin...

[kentuck]

Every man has his breaking point. Or his point of rationalization? I believe he was doing what he thinks was the right thing to do. As in his speech, you know that he would do nothing to "disrespect" the Senate, the troops, or our country. He is a good man and a good Senator. Under the same circumstances, I may have made the same decision? I don't know.

But I do blame those that twisted his words into some type of pretzel logic. I blame them for following the dictates of right-wing hate radio and bringing that same message to the floor of the US Senate. They may feel they have a temporary victory but it they should not celebrate too boldly or too loudly. I blame these folks for the divisiveness and the state we are in as a nation. I am only one person but I hold them responsible.

[Justice]

1. I blame those that don't act like grown-ups, that put slurs ahead

of dealing with the Iraq situation in a mature responsible way.

It is disgusting how low republicans will go and painful that the media laps it up.

[whirlygigspin]

6. Hitler didn't take criticism well either

...and so marches on the new Hitler youth...torture away boys.

[AX10]

8. Republicans are Fascists

[Mass_Liberal]

92. please

please, please, please, please, PLEASE, STOP SAYING THAT!

A) Not true
B) Makes you look like a dumbass
C) Adds 0 to the public discourse

[LittleClarkie]

2. I really like him

he didn't deserve to have his words twisted. He felt he needed to correct the record. He might have even heard from Jewish progressives who told him he'd gone too far. I don't know.

I like him though. And I feel like I need to support him, even if I don't think everything he does is golden. He seems like a very, very good man.

[moondust]

24. Yes indeed.

I think Sen. Durbin would probably crawl to the microphone if necessary to soften his tone if he knew he had offended some Holocaust survivors or their families.

And there may be other scenarios not publicly known at this time including threats on just about anybody he knows or does not know.

[LittleClarkie]

25. It has been suggested that the last straw might have been Mayor Daley

who reportedly had a hairy cat fit today at Durbin, because his kid is in the service. If so, thanks a whole hell of alot for seeing the big picture, Daley.

[Susang]

52. Daley was positively apoplectic

As usual, he sounded insane. More than usual, actually.

[countmyvote4real]

3. You can't tell the truth and then say you're sorry.

Sorry.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

4. I blame him

Let's not personalize and project here. Whether he's a "good man" or not doesn't matter. He's an elected Senator, and from Illinois, no less, where politicians are not cut from flimsy cloth.

He didn't cave because he couldn't stand the heat. He caved for purely political reasons, believe me, whatever they might be.

And, with that craven, cowardly apology, he became a man I now despise.

[Heewack]

13. Blame him for what?

He didn't aplogize for his remarks, he aplogized for people being offended.

"Some may believe that my remarks crossed the line," the Illinois Democrat said. "To them I extend my heartfelt apologies."


It was a meaningless political ruse. This was not an apology as being portayed in the media.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

14. When you become a lawyer,

you take an oath, and then you are subject to the Canons of Professional Responsibility. They're essentially the rules we all have to follow to keep our licenses.

One of the most salient of the Canons is that we are to "avoid the appearance of impropriety." That is, we are not to create or get involved in situations that might lead observers to believe that we are acting improperly as lawyers.

What he did with that apology - and it was an apology, believe me - was to validate everything that went before, everything that he rightfully condemned with his initial statement. He presented an image - and, as you know, image is everything - of a man caught in a situation that bore every appearance of impropriety.

Call it a non-apology if that makes you feel better, but the harm is done, and it will not ever be undone. He has lost credibility, he has backtracked in a business where capitulation is the same as death, or so this administration has shown, and he has further weakened whatever Democratic coalition there might have been.

If you believe that was a meaningless political ruse, I pray to god you never go into the business of running a campaign, because whatever he was trying to accomplish was completely obscured and will never be made visible. He has simply shown himself to be whippable and a man without a spine in the face of a spin machine.

[Bluerthanblue]

26. as a lawyer, don't

you gather all your information before you make your case?

Have you heard Mr.Durbins 'apology' in it's entirety?

If so, i wouldn't want you to represent me in any dispute- because while he apologized for 'offending' or 'causing UNINTENTIONAL harm to anyone'- he did NOT apologize for his feeling that our policies being used in Gitmo are beyond the pale-

He didn't show himself to be an arrogant son of a bitch like Bush does continually- He showed himself to be a man with a consience, a man who is sure enough of himself that he is un-afraid to humble himself when necessiary to right what he sees has had unintentional concequences-
ie. those who are stationed in Gitmo, and NOT making the 'policy' or even enforcing it- and thier families- i sure as hell hate it if anyone i loved had been sent there,- and may very well have felt he was singling out my family as being = a Nazi, when perhaps all they were doing was cooking the food for the mess hall????

Why do you put such stock in the 'spin machine'- we have brains, and we have access to the WHOLE story- not just sound bites-
we should use them, and not act like the folks who form thier beliefs on what mainstream news media tell us is truth-

[OldLeftieLawyer]

27. As a lawyer,

I have standards for accepting clients. The most salient of these is that the client be intelligent and articulate about the matter at hand.

Never fear. You would never have me for your lawyer.

[Bluerthanblue]

47. perhaps that would

be to the betterment of us both.

The lawyers i have known, and DO know, make rather modest livings representing those who most need their services. Regardless of their eloquence or IQ- Those who would meet your standards, might do well to represent themselves.

My Friend Bruce Friedman esq. the 'young(50) leftie lawyer' who died while playing basketball in Bejing China, relaxing while using his life as a gift to the world- (he'd gone to China to train the Chinese in law, leaving his position as the head of the Civil Practice Clinic at Franklin Pierce Law School here in N.H.) was and is the best example of an excellent, human being, but also the most learned and honest man of 'law' i've ever known- He made a mockery of all the greedy, self-serving lawyer jokes anyone's ever told-

good luck

[OldLeftieLawyer]

51. And this relevant to the matter at hand in what way?

I fail to see what this has to do with anything being discussed regarding Durbin and Guantanamo. I do believe you're better served not turning an exchange of opinions into a personal attack.

Everyone knows lawyers.

[Bluerthanblue]

63. and NOW-

i apologize for my disrespect to you-

Because, other than what you have posted here, i know nothing of who your are. Your words that 'struck a nerve' in me were in your post where you say:

"And, with that craven, cowardly apology, he became a man I now despise."

i don't take people's declarations like that lightly- despise is a very strong word- and if you could despise a man for having the balls to apologize, while citing you profession as an adjudicator, it bothered me. And i responded in sarcastic anger- for that i am sorry-

Your further communication with me, was to then disparage my intelligence and knowledge of the matter at hand, and again, i responded, more "in kind" than i feel is appropriate.

If we are going to abandon a man for speaking truth to power, and then clarifing his remarks to be sure that those who were inadvertently 'hurt' by his initial remarks, but STILL standing by his assessment of the tactics at Guantanimo- then we are worse than the republicans- we DO just 'love to condemn'- eating our own, with 'knee-jerk' swiftness.

For my unkind reply i DO apologize- for my perspective on the Durbin issue- i stand firm.

No one knows lawyers- they are all people both bad and good just like ever single human being on this earth- i hate the sterotyping that we all fall prey to in some form or another- Bruce showed me how bigoted i was- and i'm grateful for that.

[Heewack]

28. Is it your opinion...

... that he lost credibility before or after the "apology"? Was it the backtracking or the comparisons themselves? He was simply responding to the firestorm that had been created in the only way he possibly could, and that was an apology for offending people.

[ElectroPrincess]

33. No the APOLOGY was to save his political a** in the Senate ...

and it will backfire. We need to set an example of him. NO MORE APOLOGIES. We all knew what he meant but HE let the media firestorm push him into apologizing because he was AFRAID FOR HIMSELF. If he valued his constituents he would NOT have apologized because *he knew* that we understood the qualification.

He's toast, he might as well RESIGN NOW because he's going to be voted out of the Senate. He's an embarrassment to the Democratic Party, not for what he said, but for his *lack of resolve* ... his blatant cowardice. He shames us all.

Democratic Leaders - No more apologies!

[Susang]

50. Bullshit

He is my senator and he will not be voted out of the senate, not here in Illinois. He has done more for the residents of this state and is a man of integrity, no matter what you may think of this so-called apology. I have met him on many occasions and know many people who work with him regularly. I've never heard anyone say a negative thing about the man. Ever.

Nobody in this state is going to vote him out over this. If anything, he will be endlessly bludgeoned with the remarks he "apologized" for come next election by the Republican challenger in an attempt to gain votes downstate. You obviously have little understanding of the state of Illinois.

[ElectroPrincess]

59. That's what I used to think of Senator McCain of Arizona ...

Boy did he show his true colors in the 2004 election.

I may not know Illinois, I'll admit that much. Perhaps he HAS, yes, he has done good things for your state. Point taken.

But I do know when someone apologizes to save his own skin. That's Durbin. Take him, please, he's yours. However, kindly tell him to STFU if he won't stand behind his assertions ;)

[Susang]

61. I will gladly take him

Since I know him to be a good man and a good senator, "apology" or not.

If you actually read or hear what he said on the floor, he doesn't actually apologize for what he said, only for unintentionally offending anybody.

[Bluerthanblue]

64. you said it Susang- wish 'we' here in NH could have him! eom

.

[ElectroPrincess]

65. I saw his "performance" and it was shameful.

No, I can't handle that action. I hope the good people of Illinois make him stand up straight in the future, if he's such a great prize then someone should ENCOURAGE him to *stay strong.*

[ElectroPrincess]

66. Bingo Susang - That IS an Apology, his behavior insults us ALL

You take him, he's too gutless for me. He was sobbing because he was afraid ole' Frist would demand his resignation and ex-patriation. Now that's a loser! I hope the people vote in ANOTHER, more courageous Democrat.

[Bluerthanblue]

67. how can you??

possibly know why this man was reduced to tears? fear doesn't bring out tears in most men i know- it brings out arrogance and anger- i do believe he was moved with compassion by some of the responses he got from those he inadvertently hurt--

If you know him personally, and i'm wrong- then please set me straight- but if you are responding based on your opinion, then please don't condemn him without asking him why he was so emotional, and presuming the worst-

what the fuck is wrong with all of us- we are so quick to condemn each other- bush's arrogance and hate has spread like a cancer upon the entire world-

no one is safe to say or do anything without being condemned- i hate what everyone has become- !!!! my son's right- the luckiest people in the world died on 9/11, they didn't have to live to see what we would become-

[Susang]

70. I don't think she knows him personally

However, I have met him on many occasions and know several people who have worked closely with him and know him personally. They tell me that he is no actor and that he was genuinely upset that anyone would take his remarks as offensive. He's no actor and that was not a performance.

You're right about arrogance and hate spreading like cancer. I'd add cynicism nihilism to that list as well. Sad, isn't it?

[Bluerthanblue]

82. i'm losing

what little hope i had in humanity-
to read this board, and hear the same shit just with a democratic label is getting to be too much-

perhaps america is truly lost forever.

and that is very sad.

i'm tired of all the hate, arrogance, and cruelty-
thanks for standing up for your guy Susang- and CHOOSING to 'look for the best' in him-

i'm tired.

and disilliusioned.

[ElectroPrincess]

71. Oh fear brings out many tears from all, especially in young

grade school children when they don't want to get into "too much" trouble.

No slack for this man - he did not apologize to those he offended because HE KNEW that what he said was "on the mark."

Durbin apologized to "the man" (RoveCo.) so the big bad right wing will stop picking on him ... he knows that the Republican Noise Machine can make JC himself look like a criminal.

Most folks would concur- the odds are that Durbin apologized and cried like a preschooler because he was AFRAID for HIS Job.

Nope, he does not want to lose his next bid for re-election due to the "Big Bad Rove."

We need Representatives who are not serving US for a CUSHY LIFE-LONG Career appointment. Those who are willing to stand by their convictions. Hint: It ain't Durbin. :(

[Old_Fart]

84. The last time I checked McCain was a repug

Let me change that remark. McCain is one hell of a crazy republican.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

40. The firestorm was a sham,

created by the Republican spin machine, and he bit into the sham sandwich, chewed it up, and swallowed.

The matter was Guantanamo and what is happening there. He was courageous and correct to bring the matter forward, but, alas, the message got lost in the Rovian machinations, and it will always sadden me that Durbin did not stand his ground and demand that something be done about the Guantanamo and torture matters.

He owed no one an apology. Keep in mind that everything he said was true and accurate, and if people took issue with his phraseology, I daresay they're focusing on the messenger and not the message.

[Bluerthanblue]

48. sometimes the reason

people shoot the messenger is because the messenger hasn't given the message in a way that can be 'consumed' without being gaged upon.

Politicans are diplomats- those who aren't are bullies- and arrogant sob's- i'd rather a diplomat any day. And Mr.Durbin's POINT still stands- and has gathered 'steam' even in the republican party itself-

Stubborn pride has felled many men-

[OldLeftieLawyer]

49. I would never equate pols with diplomats

That's like saying physicians are Christmas trees. Different professions, different objectives, different paths.

I do hope you're right about the Guantanamo issue having "gathered steam even in the Republican party itself."

[Jacobin]

5. .

:nopity:

[xray s]

7. the sad thing we all know how it was going to play out

After the way Amnesty International was ripped in the media for its gulag comment you just knew Durbin was in for the same treatment.

[moobu2]

9. I'm with you on this

His apology will take the steam out of the controversy so that we can move on. Durbin was right to make the comparison though because it's true and that hasn't changed, that will never change no matter what dirty tricks the thugs pull. GITMO will continue to damage Heir Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield and the rest of the criminals.

[kentuck]

12. I'm not sure what effect it might have but....

I think it will probably take the attention off of Quantanamo, because no Senator will be brave enough to bring it up. I hope I am wrong. But, I fear Senator Durbin has been snakebit and he will not be effective again for quite a while. I think this has hurt him personally, unfortunately.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

10. Kentuck, I blame the hissy fit, and that is exactly what is was.

that the Mayor of Chicago, Richard M. Daley, had this afternoon at a Chicago press conference. His son, Patrick, just graduated from paratrooper school at Ft. Benning and poor, little Richie took Durbin's comments personally.

Rich Daley isn't exactly a rocket scientist and who knows, maybe he threatened Durbin with retaliation regarding votes in his next election if he didn't retract part of his statement.

Daley and the so-called Cook County Regular Democrats control a lot of votes in Illinois. I'm not trying to start rumors or anything like that, but growing up in Chicago and watching Chicago and Cook County politics for the last 40 years anything is possible.

[LittleClarkie]

16. Oh good lord do you think that was the final straw

that sent Durbin to the floor? Not the Repubs but a Democrat from his own state? Wow. Thanks alot Daley for seeing the big picture and all.

[JHBowden]

11. I blame Da Mare

If Daley didn't open his fucking mouth, I doubt Durbin would have offered an apology today.

[ifyouknewsushi]

15. If Durbin stood by his statement, Worst for Dems.

I know I am a new person here and subject to dismissal for disagreeing from time to time.

I am glad he apologized cause it isn't helping DEMS to sound so Anti-U.S. That they attribute Our soldiers now to those Anti-human people.

I, Agree with him in many ways but he was off base to state it the way he did and where he did. I do think he was offbase even if I agree with his thoughts that it was wrong.

Suzi.

[skooooo]

17. Forcing Durbin to apologize..

..does more to prove his point about this administration than to dismiss them. Dissent is not tolerated.

[ifyouknewsushi]

18. LOL. You for real?

Dissent is not tolerated. Hail skooooo!!! F. U.

[skooooo]

19. well duh..

Dissent isn't tolerated by the Bush administration.

[ifyouknewsushi]

20. Dissent on its own is garbage.

Nuf said.

[skooooo]

21. That's not what this was.

Saying something is wrong because it is wrong is not "dissent on its own."

[FrenchieCat]

I agree....

this goes a long way in shutting down other Democratic Senator who would grow a spine and stand strong.

If a Senator from Illinois speaks and is made to sit down...it hurts us in a long run.

I don't have time to blame Durbin....cause it's the GOP that's in the wrong....again!

[ifyouknewsushi]

23. I will not argue on this.

Durbin made every moderate say, "dems are f@cked". That was wrong and I don't care wwhat you say. Goodnight...

Suzi.

[Norquist Nemesis]

30. I disagree.

First, welcome to DU.

1) I'm wondering where you got the idea that you're "subject to dismissal for disagreeing from time to time".

2) "I am glad he apologized cause it isn't helping DEMS to sound so Anti-U.S. That they attribute Our soldiers now to those Anti-human people."

Please step back and think WHO is saying "DEMS" "sound so Anti-U.S"? Did you see Dick Durbin speak the words on the floor, or did you learn about it from the radio/TV/other source?

[ieoeja]

58. So you don't think the FBI report ...

... sounded like a report describing NAZI activities?

[truebrit71]

22. Daley needs to shut the fuck up and keep taking his kickbacks..

..I saw part of his spew today...WTF does the mayor of chicago have to do with anything...

Fuck you Dick :grr:

[Cha]

43. I guess he thinks he owns

Illinois politics.

Time will tell whether Senator Dubin is rendered neutered or NOT. Just because he apologized for offending certain people does not mean the statement he made earlier isn't true.

All this publicity has certainly gotten gitmo out in the news..people talking about it here in New York are saying what Durbin said was true..the Americans Soldiers are acting like nazis.

[ieoeja]

60. Some old-timers were talking about Daley last night.

A native Chicagoan relocated to Arizona was back in town for a visit. One of the friends he was visiting commented negatively on Daley prompting the now-Arizonan to say, "Daley will never lose an election in Chicago".

He was shocked to find that everyone in the bar disagreed. Daley is becoming increasingly unpopular in this city with rank and file Democrats.

And about time. This is not the first time Daley has sided with Republicans against Democrats. And his answer to every problem faced by the city? Privatize it! Trust big business to fix all our problems.

He privatized an interstate highway!!! Republicans must have been green with envy when he pulled that one off.

Culturally Chicago has a lot of conservative qualities to it. I honestly believe that Daley is positioning his son to be the city's first Republican mayor since the Great Depression.

[Cha]

91. Thanks, ieoeja, for that

bit of inside Chicago political news!

:toast: :patriot:

[digno dave]

29. foks, remember that we're quick to twist the repugs words when it suits us

Durbin should have known better that to use teh word nazi in the same sentence when referencing us interigators.

[ElectroPrincess]

31. Durbin needs to identify another candidate (with courage) and RESIGN!

He's worthless - no more spineless leaders. We can't afford these wimps. If they cannot take criticism and STAND-FAST through the media storms then they need to RESIGN or be VOTED-OUT.

[kentuck]

32. Obviously, he never expected this type of response from his side...

He must be thinking about the scope of his remarks. he made the Repubs feel better but look what he did to his own supporters?

[Norquist Nemesis]

36. Oh bullshit! What Durbin needs is support from DEMOCRATS!

Put yourself in his shoes! He was targeted for an onslaught of phone calls and emails by the RW hate-filled organizations mobilizing their soldiers. Then, his fellow Democrats stand up for him like freshly made jello...which gets full media coverage and gives more ammunition for Republicans.

His staff was first in line on this war front and, no doubt, he felt horrible for them...these people whom I'm certain he has great respect and feels a sense of responsibility for. The toll it took on them, I'm sure, was obvious.

Perhaps Durbin apologized partly because he wanted to stop the incessant hate being thrown at this staff. He sure wasn't getting much support from his colleagues.

[Beelzebud]

45. I emailed him a message of support for telling the TRUTH.

And then the weasle turned his back on me and everyone else that values the truth.

Today I will be emailing him, not to condemn him, or to curse at him, but to let him know that he DISAPPOINTED me an every other democrat in the nation that was glad someone finally told it like it was.

Because of this "apology" the right-wing media is going to paint the picture that Gitmo is just fine, and that America can do no wrong.

People don't like Nazi analogies? Here is one. Don't read it if you offend easily:

The Nazi regime rose to power because too many people like Durbin sat down, shut up, and allowed it to happen......

[Norquist Nemesis]

57. That's fine that you're sending those

but don't forget to include a note to all of the other Democrats in Congress chiding them for their LACK of support for Senator Durbin.

[Old_Fart]

79. Your comments are worthless!

n/t

[Norquist Nemesis]

34. I also blame Republican hate groups who initiate campaigns like this

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=98891

Title: My letter to Senator Durbin (D IL)
Source: Me with a little help from The American Family Association
URL Source: http://none
Published: Jun 17, 2005
Author: packrat1145
Post Date: 2005-06-17 22:57:50 by packrat1145
Ping List: *Objective and Rational*
22 Comments

----------------

Dammit!! It's time that all of the Democrats in DC stand together against these attack machines and echo chambers! When they get asked about it in media interviews (which they will!), divert it immediately to constantly and consistently state that Democrats are for a strong defence, working families, etc. etc. etc. Hit the bullet points, people!

[ElectroPrincess]

35. Hey, it's not our (constituents) fault that our representatives only

care about their OWN WELFARE.

If it's money and accolades they are searching for, then they need to switch parties. If they want to fight for what's morally right ... and NOT EVER back down when you speak truth to power, then by all means be a Democratic *leader.* Get it? LEADER means that you stand fast for your beliefs and weather the storm of protests.

[Norquist Nemesis]

39. How are you so certain that is what happened?

Can you show me some supporting documentation that Durbin is only concerned about his "own welfare" and seeking money and accolades, please?

You're aiming a gun at Durbin and giving the rest of the Democrats a pass on their wimpy and self-serving comments. You're also not considering things behind the scenes...is it at all possible that his Chief of Staff went to him and said, "This needs to stop. We can't take it anymore." Sure, I'm speculating about that aspect, but you don't have all of the facts and are leaping to conclusions.

Personally, I think we should all be hammering everyone BUT Durbin for not standing FIRMLY beside and behind Durbin.

[ElectroPrincess]

41. That's why DEMOCRATS often lose. If you say something stand by it

Very few people will support someone who takes back a statement he/she made - especially if it's true.

His Apology only saved him from further scrutiny from the right wing.

You keep saying that Durbin's rock solid. If that is so, I feel sorry for his constituents.

No more apologies. That's what Durbin needs to know if he wishes to be respected in politics by ANYONE!

[Norquist Nemesis]

44. Thank you for your sympathy; he's my Senator

I have not kept saying he's "rock solid", so please don't put words in my mouth.

As his apology did more than "only saved him from further scrutiny from the right wing." That just false on it's face. The right wing never ceases to scrutinize and attack. So maybe that's what his apology did...stopped the attack for this particular instance.

What Durbin said was true. I had no problem with what he said and was proud to see him standing up and saying it. But you're kicking him when he's down instead of taking to task those who should have stood with him.

Let's look at a scenario with no apology from Durbin. Presume that Durbin had not apologized. All other things being equal, how soon do think it would take for Frist to be demanding that the Democrats force him to resign? Next, a meeting with Harry Reid. Now, instead of just Durbin, the rest of the Democrats are hammered by the right-wing insisting they force Durbin to resign. Do you think the Democrats are going to stand by Durbin or tell him he needs to step down?

Now the focus isn't an apology, it's resignation. With the Republicans getting neither an apology nor a resignation, even more things don't get scheduled for debate. Republicans unite on things like cloture votes, Democratic amendments, etc. Hell! it's bad enough as it is with that crap going on.

So, again, it's the rest of the Democrats that we should be kicking for not having the balls to stand with Durbin and support him...LOUDLY!

[kentuck]

46. You ask a good question...

"All other things being equal, how soon do think it would take for Frist to be demanding that the Democrats force him to resign?"

=============================================================

And that is precisely the type of attack the Democrats must stand up and fight - especially when we have the facts or truth on our side. Obviously, they felt the Repubs were holding the strongest hand. I do not feel that they did, but Durbin and the Democrats must have felt that way? But, I'm sure they had the very fears you described.

[Norquist Nemesis]

53. The Democrats ceded the strongest hand to the Republicans

when they refused to stand by Durbin in the first place. Not one of them handled it with the media precision that Republicans are so adept at. Every Democrat should have at the very least turned it around on the Republicans.

There was a wonderful opportunity to do just that with Hostettler and his recent declaration that Democrats are waging a war on Christians. Nary a peep from the media asking Republicans from across the Congress (maybe even the mayer of Hostettler's largest city in his state?) about whether they agree with him. Does it matter that he took back his words? No, because he didn't take back all of them and he never apologized. Democrats lost the opportunity, and Republicans, with a call to arms to the soldiers from their well funded (both in dollars and faith) remained focused on the onslaught while remaining silent on Hostettler.

[kentuck]

56. I agree that it was a lost opportunity..

and it could have taken the pressure off Durbin... Foiled again!

[ElectroPrincess]

62. Point taken ... "someone else" said that ...

OK, with all due respect, Durbin, the man, is THE LEADER - THE ELECTED OFFICIAL - YOUR REPRESENTATIVE.

Again, that's what LEADERS do = They take a stand. They don't cave in when other spineless leaders criticize them. Do these other Democrats sign Durbin's paycheck? NO!

Durbin apologized because he second-guessed HIMSELF.

Do you really support a leader who will cave in ONLY for the haranguing of RW freaks and spineless Democrats?

Sure, give him a chance - but I doubt that THIS LEADER has the courage to stand for the average hourly working people when he PANICS, SOBS and APOLOGIZES for telling the truth. Shameful.

[Bluerthanblue]

78. no, i disagree-

perhaps we democrats lose because we aren't willing to work at finding out the truth- but operate by knee-jerk assumptions,- and thinking the worst about others, rather than looking at the 'big picture'-

On the 'SURFACE' you could conclude that Sen. Durbin regreted saying Gitmo was evil- if you only look at the 'surface' or eat from the mainstream media clips, you're headed for bad places anyway-

NO more apologies??? - fuck that- and i mean it- like bush's ominous statement-"NO NEGOTIATIONS"- which was Americas death knell. Your reply sounds more like bush talk than what i believe (d) to be the THINKING democrats way of operating-

If an apology for inadvertently hurting others puts you off, and you represent the views and policies of this party- i don't belong here at all.-

i'd rather be dead than become what i despise most about those i am working to overcome. Anyone unwilling to apologize, or admit wrong, is a fool- and we've been led to slaughter by them for long enough!

[Jack Rabbit]

37. Durbin owed no apology and should have made none

Senator Durbin's remarks yesterday were unnecessary. He covered what needed to be said on Friday.

The point to be made is that behavior such as that described in the FBI report cited by Senator Durbin last week is unacceptable for one wearing the uniform of the United States.

The Bush regime has approved as a matter of policy violations of the Third and Fourth Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. It is no defense for the regime to assert, as is done through the Gonzales memos, that merely to say that certain acts do not constitute torture or humiliating treatment that they are not, in fact, torture or humiliating treatment. Disregard for such standards is to be expected of totalitarian regimes like Nazi Germany and petty tyrants like Saddam Hussein. We Americans proudly like to believe that we are above that. Alas, the Bush regime is not.

These acts are crimes against humanity. Those who have made them policy are the one who owe the American people an apology. Those who have made them policy are criminals who must be punished.

[kentuck]

42. Bingo !

His first apology was sufficient. He needed to say no more.

[ComerPerro]

38. Moreover, I blame those who slander without hesitation yet at the same tim

demand apologies from anyone who even utters a word of dissent.

[Logansquare]

54. I had an experience recently that cast light on this (Dean not Durbin)

I told a coworker, a very educated, middle-aged African American woman, that I had seen Howard Dean at a fundraiser. She said, "Oh, did he scream at you?" Well, what do you say to such a thing. I know enough about her to be sure that she's not a conservative, but there's a summation of all she knows about Howard Dean--he screams at people.

A majority of voters do not read newspapers, or don't read them carefully. A vast majority do not read blogs or internet sources. They get their news on television, in soundbites, even at the water cooler. It would be easy to say they are "dumb," but many of them, like my coworker are anything but. What they are is criminally underserved by the nonprint news media.

TV news is now primarily about entertainment, so political figures and organizations are presented as "brands," like Nike, or the Lakers, with very little context. The GOP recognized this early on and started manipulating their brand, personified by the creation known as George Bush. They also manipulated the forming of any Democratic brands, especially people. The Democratic party was too clueless and in love with fundraising to figure this one out.

Thus to most people, Howard Dean screams and is out of control, Al Gore is a liar who said he invented the internet, John Kerry was in Vietnam but was a bad soldier (that one took some real heavy lifting for the GOP propagandists). Durbin is in the process of being branded. Most people will not read his original statements, they will most sincerely believe that he said that American soldiers are like Nazis. Durbin was trying to bail out before permanent damage was done. It may be too late, I fear; this will come back to haunt him during his next election.

I don't know what to do to save Democratic figures who are branded by the GOP; much of it is done with media complicity which is difficult to break through. I do know what we SHOULD be doing to GOP politicians: destroying their brand. When John Cornyn mused, on the Senate floor, that people were killing activist judges because they were being pushed to the brink, Cornyn should have become the Senator who likes murdering judges. That should be repeated over and over, until it's impossible for him to shake it. IT HAS TO BE ON TV AND RADIO. Newspapers don't count in this war. Liberal figures and pundits (what few there are) on the Sunday talk shows, should always preface any mention of Cornyn (even if it's to discuss a bill to expand highways in Texas), with the phrase "Would-be judge killer, Senator Cornyn.." How about Senator Santorum, "who is leading the fight against man on dog sex," and so on.

To quote the man who should be our favorite philosopher "We will fuck them. We will fuck them good."

[smartvoter]

55. No apology was warranted. He caved and it was a huge mistake.

He may be a good man, but he caved.

And his effectiveness in public debate was neutralized.

And he's a fool because these bastards kick you whether you comply or not.

[Catrina]

68. Exactly

Even now, freepers are calling him a traitor who finally apologized for his treacherous comments. So, what did the apology accomplish?

The firestorm was manufactured. I wonder how much it cost them to keep it going?

But this happens again and again, and they are now promising to do the same to Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean.

A strategy needs to be developed to use their own weapons against them. It shouldn't be difficult really, since their efforts are the actions of five-year-old schoolyard bullies.

For example, how to use the silencing of Durbin, now that it has been accomplished (and I do believe it has, I doubt he will be talking about GB anytime soon). But, we can!

Guantanamo Bay now should be on the agenda of every single Democrat when they have an opportunity to speak publicly about anything.

Each time they silence someone from speaking about an issue they are so desperately trying to hide, that issue should be the major issue brought to the forefront by Democrats. Like Pavlov's dogs, after a while they will get it! When they attack with the intention of burying an issue, the issue itself will be elevated in the public discourse even if they succeed in silencing one voice.

This can be done by using all avenues currently available, the internet, progressive talk radio, the Senate Floor, the Corporate Media, huge email blasts to the media and to everyone on anyone's email list, focusing on the issue, in this case, Guantanamo Bay.

If their personal attacks only escalate the attention given to the issues they try to bury, they will be forced to find another way. After the issue of GB is effectively established in the public consciousness as 'bad for America' and presenting a very negative and dangerous image to the world, then we can again bring up Sen. Durbin's truthful words and praise him for his courage and love for his country. In fact he didn't go far enough. He spoke only of the FBI report and did not mention the deaths of so many Muslims in US custody.

If they don't want the truth to get out, we need to train them to understand that the worst way to try to accomplish that is to do what they did to Durbin, because such an attack will only increase our determination to get out the truth.

I intend to tell all my Republican friends about this and I intend to ask them if acting like Nazis in silencing (with spin and lies) the voice of the opposition, is what they want their party to be engaged in?

[Old_Fart]

69. Durbin is a hero in the democratic community

The wingers don't have a victory they are a bunch of losers :argh:

[ElectroPrincess]

72. Pass the bong? I want to live in your parallel universe ...

But in the Reality Based World = Durbin will be considered, from this date on, a cry-baby loser who caved into the Republican Noise Machine.

[Old_Fart]

73. Grow up!

n/t

[ElectroPrincess]

74. No more excuses ... no more coddling ... no more slack for losers

[Old_Fart]

80. Grow up!

n/t

[sendero]

75. I wish he hadn't...

... apologized, but I'm not willing to write him off over it.

After all, only a handful of senators would have had the guts to say what he said in the first place. And despite claims to the contrary, it doesn't look to me as if his apology was a "take it all back" type of apology but rather a "I'm sorry I hurt people I didn't intend to" type.

Some may feel there is no difference between the two, but I do.

[kentuck]

77. Rush Limbaugh seems to agree with you....

:) He does not think it was a legitimate apology, either...

[ElectroPrincess]

81. But you make a good point - If Durbin did NOT have the courage

to weather the media and RW Freepers' manufactured storm, he caused MORE HARM to us than if he would have kept his mouth shut. I have no ill will toward him personally, but he, and other's like him need to keep quiet if they can't stand-fast.

I don't demand that my Reps. speak out like Coach Lombardi or George Patton, but we ALL should demand that - once said, our Representatives NOT ever again back away from the original heartfelt message.

To do so is only fuels the Right Wing's insanity and spin up a notch.

[ckramer]

86. It's foolish to apologize

Don't do that again.

[Old_Fart]

76. I am with you kentuck

They twisted his words until he had to apologize. Durbin is a hero in my eyes. The wingers only victory is having their people in office right now and I wouldn't be banking on them being re-elected. Adults do things that kids can't understand. Durbin had to apologize or they would have torn him apart in the winger owned media.

[ElectroPrincess]

83. I'm sorry, I did not see anyone pulling Durbin's strings?

No, Durbin is a LEADER, he's a USA Senator and he does not ever HAVE TO APOLOGIZE. That reminds me of when my six year old cries out that "It's YOUR fault. YOU made ME misbehave!"

Stop making excuses for bad behavior. He may have done good things for his good State of IL but he FUBAR today!

Damn his behavior and we should give twice as much hell to the next Democratic Leader that folds like a cheap suit for the Big Bad Rove-Co and Friends.

Let them fear us more than the Republicans, then maybe, they'll do their jobs?

[Old_Fart]

85. Grow up

Adults know the difference!

[ElectroPrincess]

87. I think you need to re-visit what it means to be "a leader"

I am grown-up and have lived among rabid right wingers my entire 40+ years. If you want to win, you must not permit your LEADERS to ever back down.

We are at an impasse, You say "Grow Up" and I say "Get Real."

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree?

[Bluerthanblue]

88. do you mean to say

that you believe 'our' leaders should never 're-think' or re-phrase their comments and perspectives- Mr. Durbin did NOT say "oh Gitmo, is fine" He said, i'm sorry for those i may have hurt by my use of the words i used-

We are living under a 'leader' who stubbornly refuses to even entertain the concept that he could ever be wrong- or even 'mis-speak'- if that is what your concept of a leader is, you should be in heaven with bush at the helm.-

It's not a question of 'getting real' its a question of doing what is right, even if that doesn't 'feel good' to your ego- Arrogance is the weapon of tyrants- you can have them- a person can be firm in their convictions, yet not be intentionally offensive in their voicing them, or afraid to admit being 'imperfect' and willing to re-phrase themselves when they deem it necessiary.

real doesn't equal rude- except in this 'new' america- nor does 'grown up'- Please don't become what you claim to hate- if you do- you may 'win' in theory, but not in truth- they will- because YOU will have become 'them'.

[ElectroPrincess]

89. Well, yes, with these "take no prisoners" Neo-Cons, be ruthless !

There's no time to go pure or re-think much these days. We must fight for our democracy.

Durbin let down not only his constituents in IL but the Democratic Party by APOLOGIZING.

This is nasty politics, not a task of defending one's PhD. dissertation.

No, there's not much time to rethink OR qualify.

Use rhetoric to HIT hard, show malice and righteous indignation and play it all to the sheeple. That's the way to win.

For those of you who wish to play it straight. All I ask is that you step out of the way while we verbally take them down. I only hope and pray that it is not too late.

IMO, Image and Impressions are All-Important in today's SITCOM world.

On edit: You have an excellent point - "We will become them." I have to level with you: Even at our worst, I doubt that hard fighting liberal democrats will get as nasty or as bad as rabid right wing republicans. But we MUST gain some ground, we must get tougher.

[Bluerthanblue]

90. believe me,

i completely understand your rage-
and i share it.

but i've lived at the other end of a fist for too long, to ever want to become one-

maybe i've outlived myself- i'm just so sick and tired of hate, violence, greed, and anger.

i need to go find a hole and climb in.

[Uncle Joe]

93. The Communists

will continue to trash whatever criticism a Democrat heaps on the neocons tactics or agenda no matter how it is put. They have no intention of actually enlightening the American People as to the cause of the our righteous anger. The neocons become the princess and the pea and the Communists are their enablers, they are in bed together.

P.S. Corporate Owned Media Monopoly Under Neocon Idiotic Theory Shits = Communists