On Durbin

[nadinbrzezinski]

Great pressure was brought to bear on this man, by the Right Wing Media machine. The pressure brought to bear is not unlike the type of pressure the Nazis used on their oponents in the 1930s. The truth is we face fascists that will use ANY means to hold onto power.

As a daughter of the holocaust and a trained historian I will say this now... GITMO is Bergen Belsen... hear me now.

1.- Bergen Belsen was used to intern thsoe who did not fit the new society... in the begining not even Jews, but terrorists. The justification for Bergen Belsen was to keep those who were a probklem away from the normal people.

2.- Bergen Belsen was aproved by most of the population because it was for THE OTHER... jsut like GITMO is being tolerated right now becuase it IS for the OTHER.

3.- Bergen Belsen lost many of the protections of German Law as thigns were passed by a cowed off legislature... GITMO is in a gray zone withing national and international law. In fact we had a slight look into the madman when Rummy told us... there are things we cannot do in the US, we can do at GITMO... now class guess what happens if they brought all these people here, even to a military prisson? Read your constitution.. all them rights apply to them foreigners.

4.- Now let me specualte, as we continue to tolerate (as a nation, not DU) the horrors that go at GITMO, waht Durbin said was akin to Nazi Practices will spread across the country.... who will speak for you as they silence their critics one by one, by publicly assasinating them, at least in character?

[48pan]

1. Durbin wimped out...

Not a whole lot of backbone in Washington, eh?

[Goldeneye]

4. A million limbaugh listeners with pitchforks and torches

would have caused me to do the same thing.

[rucky]

24. sticks and stones...

what can they do to him, really?

[Goldeneye]

36. Other than death threats....I have no idea.

But we do know what Bush Co does to people they don't want speaking out.

[ElectroPrincess]

44. Then you should NOT hold public office ... They SWEAR an oath

to uphold the constitution, not cave in because a number of Freepers sent them nasty email or <shriek> FOX Cable News is calling them Traitors to the Troops.

They should NOT run if they can't stand the scrutiny. RESIGN Durbin! We can find some folks who will *stay strong* through controversy. Not Durbin!

[Hippo_Tron]

5. He made a clarification

He didn't wimp out.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. Yuo sure he wimped out?

I will ask, how far will YOU stand up? It is easy for us to judge, but we have never faced anthrarx, they have... what was he threatened with?

[zann725]

22. It wasn't just the words of his apology...but the breathless fear in his

voice. He'd clearly been threatened...threatened deeply. He was clearly fearful, and not just a little. It was almost as if the Repugs threatened to send DURBIN to Gitmo if he didn't stop speaking the Truth. And the depth of the fear in Durbin's voice troubled me more than his embarrassing apology for telling the Truth.

And I wrote him to let him know. He's one of my favorite Senators, and I was deeply disappointed and troubled by the child-like fear in his voice as he was clearly FORCED to apologize.

[KittyWampus]

42. What Did YOU Do To Support Him In REAL Terms? Send Money?

[48pan]

47. Why the hell would I send money...

to a sniveling wimp without the courage to stand his ground?

[truebrit71]

2. Excellent post.

As long as it is happening to someone else, particularly someone that has been demonized by the establishment (another nazi favourite) it will be tolerated.

By the time they reach us it will be too late.

[Erika]

3. Hitler also hid behind the facade of Christianity

while doing the unthinkable to anyone he deemed his "enemy".

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. and the saudis hide behind the facade of Islam

same problem, different side of the coin.. but fascism requires the other

[dweller]

7. First They Came For The Terrorists...

If we and our elected representatives do not speak out now... it may not be long before they come for the rest of us


dp

[gumby]

9. It is so very, very sad that we are even talking

about these horrible things happening in Our Country.

And it is very, very frightening to watch the vast right-wing machine grow like some demon bird, spread its wings and smother the light. The attack against Durbin was the fastest, most unified and relentless thing I've ever seen/heard.

Disturbing times.

[truebrit71]

10. Being mentioned on air by Malloy NOW!!!

Good job!

[gumby]

11. Just heard Mike Malloy

read your post. It should be read by many.

[nadinbrzezinski]

14. Yeah chills went down my back

to think that ten years ago I was runnign a forum on campus on Genocide

I never thought I would be saying... THIS country is one step away from commiting Genocide...

[raysr]

12. Here ya go

http://100777.com/doc/136

[Catrina]

16. He told the truth

and for that they went after him. I don't think I have ever used the 'nazi' word before, but this is how it starts. Freepers think it started with the holocaust, but it didn't.

I know someone who is German and she is terrified of what is happening here now. She told me that from what she remembers, all the early signs are here again, and she's been having nightmares about it.

I believe he was threatened ~ and I don't blame him, but now we should shout even louder about how the world sees the US. The world does see it as similar to Nazi Germany or any other brutal oppressor. That's what George Bush has done for this country. That's what Guantanamo Bay has done and Afghanistan is falling into chaos again because of GB and 'the heavy handedness of US troops' according to Karzai.

Rightwingers don't want to know this, they are afraid of the truth, or else they hate the principles this country was founded on. I really am beginning to think that they really do hate this country.

I already wrote to Sen. Durbin, I will write again and thank him for trying to tell the truth, but not to worry, I am even more determined tthan ever now to pass along his excellent speech to everyone I know, and ask them to do the same. So, he will be heard.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. I know in my heart the extreem right wing hates this country

when bush says, they hate us for our freedoms, he is givng you an insight into what he, and the cabal things... he and the cabal hates us for our freedoms and will do all they can to crush us

[LittleClarkie]

18. But don't we know that they know best?

But we have to give their ideas time to work. That's why they must stay in power. Why, after about 20 or 30 years, we'll see how their ideas work just fine.

:puke:

[nadinbrzezinski]

19. Back away from Leo Strauss and take two aspiring and call

me in the morning.

:-)

[C_U_L8R]

29. Truth Is...

The Bush Regime Condones Torture.

They just don't like it when we point out that fact
and do everything in their power to obscure the issue
(mostly by attacking the messenger)
Truth is.. the Bush Regime condones torture.

[Karenina]

32. Wanna know what we see

here on the other side of the Big Pond?





It's as CLEAR as the meaning of "fix."

[proud patriot]

13. Mike Malloy is reading this now

:hi:

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Yeah that sent chills down my back

He reads so well

[ginnyinWI]

20. and it's gradual, so we won't notice

They are attacking things one by one. Lately it's PBS's funding. A ridiculous man was trying to say, on Newshour, that public TV "has a liberal slant to all its programming and always has, since Johnson and Bill Moyers set it up for the Great Society."
That's the strategy: label it "liberal" and try to discredit and destroy.

One by one is right. Is the internet next? If they control the message 100%, they will indeed have control.

[dooner]

21. Scarey post, but I watched Durbin's "retraction"

He choked back tears as he spoke. He seemed to be apologizing to the soldiers, not the administration. I got the feeling he had become convinced that his words were damaging to the morale of the average military guy/gal.

(Either that, or he was scared to death!)

[Bluerthanblue]

25. i agree with

you- i saw his emotion not as 'fear' but as a man who had been moved to tears by what i'm sure were many letters, emails and calls from those who were wounded by his words- not because they were NOT words of truth, but because the manner in which he spoke, opened up wounds in folks he had no intention of hurting-

read his quote of Lincolns- in his apology- and DON'T settle for 'pieces' of his statement- read it in its entirety.

[JHBowden]

23. The *Daley* Machine, not the GOP machine, made Durbin back down.

I've never seen Durbin back down to the Republicans or the media before. It is not a coincidence Durbin apologized hours after Daley criticized him.

[Kurovski]

26. Here is link to what Durbin said

http://durbin.senate.gov/record.cfm?id=239278

"I have learned from my statement that historical parallels can be misused and misunderstood. I sincerely regret if what I said causes anybody to misunderstand my true feelings."

Note the word "misused".

Read carefully, He's no wimp.

[Skidmore]

27. When I heard the audio of his response,

and I won't call it an apology, I thought the same thing. Durbin gave a Reid apology--he addressed the furor and preserved the integrity of his initial criticism. He's a good man.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Yes yes he is

but given taht many are going, look he did this about the Holocaust... no you dumb asses, the comparison it valid

[Swamp Rat]

30. It's a valid comparison

[Fluffdaddy]

31. Durbin did the right in thing apologizing. And for those that don't ....

Don't understand why..............Shame on ya


NEVER EVER compare our troops to Nazis...........NEVER!!!!!!!! x(

[GreenArrow]

35. if the jackboot fits...

...

[Fluffdaddy]

40. My son, who is defending your right to freely be an Ass, Does not

wear jackboot. United States Military, Where would YOU/me/us be with out them? Not ruining your mouth FREELY on the Net

Yes, say Bush and the Neo-Cons at time are acting "Nazis like"............BUT NEVER EVER OUR BOYS

[Karenina]

41. May he return to you safe

and recover fully from the HELL ON EARTH he is experiencing now.

The behaviour of your *MIC reflects on your government. They BOTH are seriously out of control.

[GreenArrow]

43. If the tables were turned

and it was Iraqi soldiers or the Taliban who were doing the sorts of things that the US has been doing in Gitmo and Al Ghraib (sp) no one would have a problem with the comparisons. Bush and the guys on the other side have no problems making these sorts of comparisons when it suits their needs. As another poster put it, if you don't want to be compared to Nazis, DON'T FUCKING TORTURE PEOPLE. Americans aren't incapable of acting horribly.

I wouldn't lump all our boys (and girls) in this category; the great majority of them are doing the best they can in a terrible situation not of their own making, but what has been happening at Gitmo and in Iraq is institutionalized, i.e. it's policy, not an abberation. I wouldn't blame Lynndie England or what's his name Gramer for creating the situation in Al Ghraib, but like it or not, they were acting like Nazis. Following orders is not a valid excuse.

And no, not to offend you, but your son is not defending my right to be an ass or anything else. He shouldn't be there, period, and hopefully he will come home soon and the people that sent him there for THEIR own ends -not yours or mine or his -- will suffer the consequences of what they have done.

[Nordmadr]

37. Wow, as a military veteran, that sure sounds like blind patriotism

to me. If the facts are there and the analogy fits, well then...

Just because it isn't as widespread, does not mean that it is not the same idea and intent.

Is it the fault of the regular troops? In limited cases I would say yes. To think that there aren't bad apples in the service is naive. However, I would argue that the vast majority of the time, it is because of the leadership. Most of the military service members are good everyday people. But they are indoctrinated into following orders. Questioning an order is generally a bad thing, especially in war, and with the current legal status of certain actions being supported by the President of the Untited States of America, do you really expect all grunts to be able to make the right decision under taht kind of pressure?

I imagine many young German soldiers knew what they were doing was wrong, some were "indoctrinated", and some were just plain evil. It CAN and DOES happen.

To me it seems eerily similar to the whole frog in the pot of water that slowly reaches a boil, while the frog does nothing. How bad does it have to get before you can start saying it is bad?

Olaf

[rhett o rick]

46. For the 100th time, he didn't compare our troops to Nazi but only their

actions. When they torture people, their actions are like the Nazi's. We understand they are only following orders.

[OneTwentyoNine]

33. Remember though...Its still ok though to label Liberals

Or anyone else who doesn't go along in lockstep with Bush and his illegal War Anti-American,unpatriotic,terrorists etc,etc...

Any APOLOGY coming from Republicans lately? I'm sitting here STILL waiting for one......

[Fluffdaddy]

34. Sen Rick Santorum give an APOLOGY for saying Dem's was acting like

Nazis. He did the right thing an caved the next day. Not 6 days like our guy did. When you F up and say something you really did not mean................apologize right away and move past it.

Edit to add: Don't give your enemies a stick to hit you over the head with for 6 days then apologize anyway.

[ElectroPrincess]

45. We won't get an apology from Republicans until we show some courage

... Republicans do respect "in your face" criticism. You stand toe to toe with a Freeper and 8 times out of 10, they'll fold like a cheap suit. The only way to get ANY RESPECT from the Republican party is to get, as I mentioned above, *in their face.*

If our present representatives are not up to the task, let's recruit some real scrappers? An so what, if they accidentally mis-speak - everyone KNOWS what they mean. When they're on a roll, don't criticize them. It's persistence and determination, not absolute moral purity, that will win the Democrats back Our Congress. ;)

[noamnety]

38. The FIRST ones to compare our torture methods to Nazis

were the people who wrote the memo justifying torture.

If they thought the comparison was way out of line, perhaps they shouldn't have suggested that our soldiers use the Nuremberg defense.

[Cocoa]

39. Durbin didn't make any of those points

they may or may not be true, but they are not what Durbin said.

[Jacobin]

48. Durbin will go down in history as a modern day

Judas.

He is an ass