How many of you could see the war coming before it was started?

[Skidmore]

How many of you knew you were being lied to? How many of you could give a fact-based reasoning on why you knew you were being lied to back then? How many of you can sit today and watch biased and censored news and still accurately identify the lies and where the politos are taking us next?

If I can do this from my chair in Iowa, far from having access to secret and classified information and without more than a cursory knowledge of security and politics, how can we also believe that Congressmen and Senators voted for war and now regret votes because they were lied to? They have access to information above and beyond what we read in the papers. My disgust with Congress is that they were willing to hand over their constitutionally given power to a madman, and then sit back when he ran amok with it, shrugging, and sighing "Who knew?". Well, a lot of us did.

[left is right]

1. the leader of a nation should be reluctant to go to war

War should always be the last choice. But, Bush always looked and sounded way too excited about war. I think he got a hard on every time he spoke of war. Oh yeah, I knew he was lying about every excuse for going to war and I knew that nothing was going to keep him from having his war.

[xchrom]

2. oh yes.

and while i'm a firm believer in the deep corruption of bushco-- this is another one of those times to talk about the character of the american people.

[merbex]

3. At first, I sensed I was being lied to. It took very little effort to

to confirm what I sensed

I can say that it taught me how to navigate the world wide web and I polished long unused research skills from back in my college days when I was writing research paper after research paper

I felt then and still feel now that many politicians,especially Democratic Senators might have felt boxed in by this administration.They could hear whispers of Arnold Schwarnegger

"Are you a girly Man?, can't defend America?"

They didn't trust Americans to see through this or trust themselves to be able to explain or persuade Americans that THEY were correct(war was not necessary and Bush was lying)

[Blue Gardener]

4. Everybody on DU knew

And probably half the country. All you had to do was pay attention to what was going on, and ignore everything Commander Cuckoo Bananas was saying.

[KoKo]

87. Yes...we did and we went out and tried to do something about it...we did

know...we follwed it all just like now. Thanks for posting this. There was another thread about how we knew here on DU ..those of us who were here back then throughout it all. :thumbsup:

[slor]

5. Well, they were deploying so many soldiers...

I was amazed when the handful of * apologists that I know said it would be last resort. They said, "oh that is to make him feel pressure, to open up to inspections". And I always said you could do that with fewer troops, and a stepped up threat of air attacks, and get the same results, for fewer dollars. I went to the Feb. 15th anti-war rally in N.Y. and actually felt we may have sent an effective message to prevent this mess, but the way the "liberal" media covered it, I knew it was over.

[Skidmore]

36. The troop deployment was what I kept noting too.

You don't put that much money and manhours into an effort if you don't intend to follow through. AND I could hear no sincerity in the lip service done to peaceful solutions--solutions is a strong word for the mealy mouthed platitudes they offered.

[cleveramerican]

6. saw it then, as I see it now

W shamelessly used 9/11 as political cover to pick up a tired old agenda with Iraq and run with it. He used the publics grief and outrage over 9/11 to justify it all. We as a people wanted to believe him .We couldn't imagine that our president would be so cavalier with the lives of our soldiers, to wade into the mess that is Iraq with no clear objective, just a vague dream about freedom. Not too much talk about a Jeffersonian democracy on the Tigris anymore?
It makes me sick to think about it.

[Tin Man]

101. the truth is, the Neocon Cabal figured a big 'ol syringe of democracy,

injected straight into the heart of the Middle East, would win the Global War on Terra like a shot of penicillin dries up a nasty venereal infection. I like to refer to this wishful, nearly delusional strategy as the Neocon Democracy Injection Gambit (NDIG).

My epiphany came after reading a single, brief speech W made some weeks before the war began. Instead of the usual spiel of WMD, Bad Sadam, etc - W spoke vaguely of his belief that democracy was somehow the solution to global terra. At that moment, I thought - so that's what this is all about! WMD, Bad Sadam - all just cover stories. The truth was simply that the Neocon Cabal felt that Iraq offered the perfect opportunity for action - a fortuitous convergence of the perfect location and the perfect set of excuses to implement the NDIG strategy.

Location, location, location - every realtor recognizes its importance, and so did the Neocons: Iraq, at the very center of the Middle East, represented the perfect site for a democracy infusion that would hopefully radiate throughout Southwest Asia like a stone tossed into a calm pond. And thanks to Sadam, homegrown Islamic fundamentalism had already been repressed, the Iraqi people were perhaps the most westernized in Southwest Asia, and hey, can you believe it - the highway signs are already in English! What Middle Eastern country could possibly be any easier to invade and occupy?!!!

And, as an extra added bonus... the US would gain additional political influence in the Middle East, establish lots of new permanent military bases, and best of all - Iraqi oil would pay for much of the reconstruction effort as well as provide the financial collateral necessary for a fledgling democracy to secure international investment and support.

Hoo-boy! The perfect location, the perfect excuses, the perfect financing - what more could a Neocon possibly wish for? So the decision was made to implement the Neocon Democracy Injection Gambit as a means to defeat global terra.

Hey, it sounded like a good idea at the time! Too bad the Neocons got caught-up in their own rosy "group think" and failed to consider the potential for less attractive outcomes. I guess the Cabal never learned one of the strange ironies of war: the "benefit" sought is seldom realized...

[dbt]

7. How far back are you talking here?

While watching the campaign coverage in the fall (what an apt term) of 2000, Crusading Spouse was terrified of bu$hler. "Damn, if that little prick wins, he'll take us to war," she said on many occasions. "That's what Bushes do. They don't have anything else!"

She can see for miles and miles and miles and miles and miles...

[Catfight]

8. The day Bush was appointed to office in 2000, I knew we'd be in a war. nt

[BlueIris]

9. My then (now ex) boyfriend called the Iraq future in the fall of '00.

Despite his vile, closet misogyny, which sadly I didn't see until it was too late, I give him credit for having this creepy acumen for predicting American political trends that no one in our social group can explain (he's a mathematician with zero academic or professional experience in government). He was also one of the first people I knew to say at some point early that autumn: "I don't think Al Gore's gonna pull this thing out." He thought it would be close enough the Republicans could try something. I remember well that gruesome day in July 2002 when he asked me, "so, did you see that story on CNN.com this morning about how we 'may' be going to war in Iraq next year? It's starting."

[izzie]

10. Not me I was sure that any one would have thought this war nuts.

I also was not for the old mans war. Why are we fighting to keep rulers like that in power? We go to war to help one police state fight another police state? Crazy

[radfringe]

11. summer of 2000

I posted predictions of what would happen if smirk-boy were (s)elected

among them was a prediction that smirk-boy would attack Iraq.

other predictions included - a stagnant economy or major recession, higher gas prices, and give-aways to "special" groups/corporations

I admit that I had "mis-underestimated" smirk-boy - I never thought he would screw-up this bad....

[kath]

94. I knew, well before he was selected, that he was determined to get us into

a war.

[smurfygirl]

12. when Bush stole the election the first time

My whole family knew there was going to be a war. When 911 happened we knew things didn't add up. When they tried to sell a war in Iraq, we all knew it was a lie.

[lovelaureng]

13. A lot of us knew

My wife spoke of this for a long time before it happened. She shared what she knew was going to happen about this whole mess and it has come to pass. All without the benefit of access to secret and classified information, funny how that works. When will the public at large wake up
and stop eating the spoon fed sugar coated BS the media passes off as news on a daily basis? I hope soon....like right now

[JawJaw]

14. "WE KNEW!"

and millions like us...

[Donailin]

86. was that from Oct 26th 2002?

[liberal N proud]

15. Do you mean like we can see an attack on Iran coming?

OH yeah, it was there, the media was frothing at the mouth with the propaganda for months.

[Telly Savalas]

95. Iran is nothing like Iraq.

With Iraq they were beating the war drums so loudly that it was totally obvious that Bush had a boner for war. Even my grandmother, who's been a Republican for decades, thought so.

With Iran there is nowhere near as much saber-rattling. All the noise about military action against Iran is coming from the left. Unlike a few years ago, we're not seeing daily occurances of some jackass from the White House getting on TV and blathering on about how Iran poses a threat to world security.

This, combined with the total infeasibility of engaging in even a larger military operation than Iraq, has me convinced that we'll see no more than a few Clintonesque bombing raids if anything. There's nothing subtle about how these assholes work.

[bklyncowgirl]

16. I knew it.

When I was with my co-workers watching the column of smoke from the World Trade Center from 50 miles away, I remember saying that Bush would use this as an excuse to go to war with Iraq whether Saddam was involved or not.

I also knew that it would be a disaester and while many people were applauding our easy "victory" I told them just wait.

Unfortunately thousands of lives later, I can't take any pleasure in having been right.

[Crunchy Frog]

17. I knew, even though I wasn't at DU yet.

I guess I probably knew from early autumn of 2002, when they really started banging the war drums. I could tell they were lying because there were so many inconsistencies, plus very obvious attempts at manipulating public opinion, with things like trying to link Saddam with 9/11, and the use of hyperbolic language designed to frighten people without presenting any real information. Then there were the little things like the Niger yellow cake forged documents, and the aluminum tubes that were supposedly for centrifuges, but were actually small rocket launchers. Colin Powell's UN testimony felt totally bogus to me. He was just presenting a bunch of meaningless pictures and snippets of phone conversations and making up stories about them. It just didn't feel like the evidence presented added up, plus, I knew that Bush was a pathological liar and I could tell that he really, really wanted his war.

Yeah, I don't really believe the people in Congress were fooled either. I think they went along because they were afraid to go against what seemed to be overwhelming public opinion, and didn't want to be accused of being weak and unpatriotic.

[jimshoes]

18. Knew it

in 2000. Told my pub sister and brother in law we'd be at war within 2 years if chimp got (s)elected. I can't explain why, I just had a gut feeling.

[Malva Zebrina]

19. Senator Jim Jeffords on his vote

"What made it all the more unbelievable was that their intelligence didn't change, only the estimate," Jeffords said. "They were obviously lying. And that's why I voted against the resolution."

I wish this play dumb act would stop. 23 voted against it--21 Democrats, one Republican (Chafee) and one independant (Jeffords)

The others need to step up to the plate and if they cannot,then they need to get out of the kitchen-it it unbelievable that Hillary Clinton or Kerry are tossed around as potential Democratic candidates-They need to view all the pictures of little children with amputed limbs, charred faces and bodies, or dead in the streets of Iraq and then ask forgiveness from their god for what they did. Their vote has been an albatross around the necks of the Democrats trying to push the DSM an other revelations concerning Bush's Iraq folly, and their argument stinks.

[Skidmore]

37. The continued support of this war by

Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Joe Biden--to name a few--in addition to some of the other more recent political maneuvering they have done--has seriously eroded my inclination to give my vote to any of them. Give me a Boxer, a Conyers, a Dean, a Kuicinich--any of the above and you have my vote. These politicians sold the country to the highest bidders and God knows how many more will die until someone finds some lost integrity or we can vote them out. I've had it with them all.

[Donna Zen]

67. If we reward "politics as usual" with out votes

...then we will get more "politics as usual."

I don't know how serious you are about your expressed sentiment, but personally, the first time I come to these hallowed threads and read a post telling me to get behind a ticket headed with the name of one of those who knew and in a fit of cynical political maneuvering voted for this war, is the last time I come to DU.

I will not support this anymore. They won't know or care, but I will.

Now tell me how much Karl Rove appreciates my thought. I tell you that I need to be at peace with my own thoughts and deeds. If we are ever to have people represent us, then we must become our own masters.

They knew.

[Kahuna]

20. I saw it before shrub got his clammy paws on the white house...

I begged people to not vote for two oil men during the 2000 election. I told them no good could come from it. Since the day I laid eyes on the chimperor with his shifty eyes and his smirk, I knew he couldn't be trusted.

[leesa]

21. I remember saying Bush would lead us into a world war in March 2001

He was trying to piss off too many countries at the same time. "Working hard", as he would say, to destroy alliances for no apparent reason. It was only a matter of time. Thank God for the perfectly timed 9-11, eh?

[SCDem]

22. I knew that's why I went up to DC to protest

but then the MSM under-reported or didn't report on the 1/2 million people there.

Still makes me weep :(

[libertad]

32. Did you go in October? There were so many people there and

it got absolutely no attention whatsoever. I drove to DC and was amazed at the turnout!

[SCDem]

33. No I went to the protest in January or was it February in '03

I know there was one in October of '03 but I was 8 months pregnant and a little skiddish about something happening there. Also I know there was one in Octover of '02 but wasn't able to get to that one either.

But the one I went to 5 busses came from South Carolina. Can you believe that 5 busses. We left at 10 pm and got there in the am. All those people and then speakers like Tyne Daley was the most beautiful and moving thing I have ever seen.

We need to keep at it though.

[alphafemale]

111. was there with family in October '02 and...March '03

In Feb '03 we were part of a good sized "World Says No to War" day in Savannah, GA.

Yes. I knew the sons of bitches were lying us into war.

I knew Bush was lying in the State of the Union Address.
I knew Powell was lying in front of the UN.

[underpants]

23. None of it ever made any sense

add in having seen the PNAC plans and it got into bizarro country.

Cannabalization of the Iraqi armor
A horrible air force to start with let alone 10 years of atrophy
Secular government vs. fanatical religous oligarchy/theocracy

Two words

SHELF LIFE

Those words were never heard in the WMD discussion leading up to the war.

Common sense.

Will Pitt's "The War in Iraq" (interview with Scott Ritter) was all you really needed to know and has played out 100%.

[Donna Zen]

62. Worked on that "read this book."

It was while doing some fact checking that I stumbled upon all the PNAC plans and also remember the day I wrote: OMG, the wars has already started!

Most days I hunted, I felt I needed a shower at twenty minutes intervals.

[political_aware]

24. State of the Union.2002

It was the "axis of evil". Later at Westpoint he said that USA could attack any country that he might think to be a "threat".

After that I thought that anything could happen in anyway. It became a sad forcast.

[checks-n-balances]

104. Me too! I had never heard a "presidential" speech like that

So inflammatory and hateful. And I agree - it's been a nightmare ever since (especially for our troops and the Iraqis).

[second edition]

25. I knew it was just a matter of time- he was going to do this

no matter who supported him him on this or who didn't. It was predetermined that Saddam had to go even before Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court in 2000. Bush talked about Saddam and Iraq during the debates in 2000.

[finecraft]

26. I remember it well....September 29, 2001

Wolfowitz was giving a speech at some think tank and the topic of his speech was on why Saddam Hussein had to be removed from power in order to remove a serious threat to US security. I knew then that these bas#@!%* were going to go after Iraq....no question. They decided long before September 29, 2001 that they were going to Iraq.

[mpendragon]

76. I didn't know about Iraq but on September 11th I knew . . .

that we'd kill thousands and thousands, guilty and innocent alike, in retaliation before it was over. Iraq had nothing to do with the war but the Iraqis will die just the same.

[LizW]

27. I knew because Bush, Condi and Cheney were so very "on message"

Anyone paying the least bit of attention to the presidential race of 2000 understood how these people work the public. The develop a message and they saturate the airwaves with it, often using the same words and phrases over and over and over.

I don't remember the exact date, but I do remember the little jolt of realization I had when they started inserting Iraq into every message. I remember literally going, "Iraq? What the...? Iraq didn't do 9/11! What are they talking about?" And once I was conscious of it, it was very, very obvious. It was in EVERY speech, Saddam -- Iraq -- evil -- terror. At the same time, Afghanistan was gone -- disappeared from public discussion.

One of the first posts I remember reading at DU was a hilarious satire making fun of how Bush had started talking about Saddam and his "evilness". It was LOL funny and I knew I wasn't losing my mind, others were seeing what was happening, too.

After that realization, there was never a moments doubt. Bushco acted exactly as I expected in every move. They shaped public opinion, and they demonized anyone who disagreed. They issued ultimatums, and every time Iraq complied, they moved the goalposts and claimed that Iraq had not complied.

I could also see the effect the war steamroller was having on people around me. I live in a red area in a red state, and I don't discuss politics much with people around here. I do listen to them discussing it with each other, and it was clear that Bush's message was working. They actually thought Saddam did 9/11.

[devinsgram]

28. The very first time I saw the village idiot

Back in 1999, I knew he was an evil person and no good would ever come of him. After the 2000 election I knew that thousands and thousands of people would die because of him. I cried all night, because of what I knew was coming. On 9-11 my husband and I looked at each other said this administration knew it was coming and we both knew before this war that Saddam had no weapons and we knew they were determined to go war way long before the talk even began. Why was it so easy to determine that.

First of all, anyone with a critical thinking ability knows that whoever strikes first will have a return strike. Second, Saddam did not even have a decent army to fight, so why would he try to begin one. Third, for 12 years we had contained him and he was nothing more then a tin horn dictator. Fourth, the inspectors were doing there job and told us he had nothing. Had he the chance to do something, he certainly would not have waited all these years to do it. Fifth, anyone who knows anything about the religion of Islam would know that Sadaam would not be helping Bin Laden and Bin Laden would not be helping Sadaam.

All Sadaam wanted to do was to make his fortunes bigger, that's all he was about. Obtaining money.

[lawladyprof]

114. I remember so clearly thinking the exact same thing

"that thousands and thousands of people would die because of him."

[seabeyond]

29. i knew bush was going in..........

i thought bush was lying. when powell went into the u.n. outloud i said, gotta trust them. powell wouldnt do this to his men. there must be something. if bush is lying his ass is so going to be in trouble

those were my words

i knew no one was going to stop bush, and so i went to go in, do it, get out. of course that isnt what bush did either. fucked that up every step of the way too

[fed-up]

30. I was scared when shrub stole his 2nd term and knew for sure after 911

I was so pissed at the drum up to war that I disconnected my satellite dish shortly after 911.

It was about that time that I really started to hunt out alternative news sites and was relying heavily on bbc, veterans for commonsense and buzzflash for the truth.

[DinahMoeHum]

31. when he mentioned "axis of evil" in his SOTU speech in 2002.

n/t

[one_true_leroy]

34. i wrote a paper in high school...

just after iraq 1.0, that predicted both afghanistan and iraq 2.0 (plus others of the -stani's), tied to the development of the pipelines from the caspian sea to the persian gulf. had no idea about 9/11, but nearly everything i wrote over ten years ago has come true. after 9/11, i knew what was in store.

[NoFederales]

35. I knew

The reasoning was always lame, trumped up, and skewed to get their points across--that's propaganda. I knew the SOB's were going to start a war without justification. My greatest horror was watching Bush's face at the elementary school on 9-11 and I had this very sick feeling that "they" were complicit. I still get that numb feeling when I think about it, or read someone elses thoughts on those times. Would that this were all a nightmare from which we could awaken.

NoFederales

[atommom]

38. I knew, beyond a shadow of a doubt. And no, I still can't believe

that the media, and all those in Congress that voted to authorize the war, couldn't have seen it all coming too. I'm just a woman with a computer ... I can't accept that they didn't know at least as much of the truth as I did. :shrug:

[Donailin]

89. Just a woman with a computer -- same here

single mom, small cleaning business owner.

But a computer/c-span/npr/pacificaradio junkie. To this day I'm more informed than anyone else I personally know in real life, and over half of my sixty clents work downtown (DC). Very few people know what the hell is going on. I've converted a few republicans and I've had the pleasurable experience of them saying "you were right". One was my neighbor who was a Fox news junkie.

[Waistdeep]

39. Remember the Onion - Jan 18, 2001

George W. Bush assured the nation in a televised address Tuesday that "our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity is finally over."
...
Bush swore to do "everything in power" to undo the damage wrought by Clinton's two terms in office, including selling off the national parks to developers, going into massive debt to develop expensive and impractical weapons technologies, and passing sweeping budget cuts that drive the mentally ill out of hospitals and onto the street.

During the 40-minute speech, Bush also promised to bring an end to the severe war drought that plagued the nation under Clinton, assuring citizens that the U.S. will engage in at least one Gulf War-level armed conflict in the next four years.
...

And much more at:
http://chak.org/pages/onion/bush_nightmare.html

[left is right]

53. i emailed that article to every one I knew

and I am still amazed at its accuracy. who knew they were more prophetic than lampoonish?

[Jacobin]

69. Great catch

You reminded me. Laughed my ass off when I read that originally, in a macabre sort of way

[IndianaGreen]

40. Those of us that read the British press knew that Bush & Co were lying

Heck, Colin Powell's speech at the UN was debunked almost as soon as he made his remarks.

We also knew from following the war in Afghanistan, from reporters such as Robert Fisk to name one, that the war was not what it was cracked up to be. We knew then that the US military was purposely targeting civilians, wiping out entire villages.

[WI Independent]

41. Many seem to be missing the most important part...

Congress is complicit in this.

Many on DU seem to blame everything on Bush... he's the boogieman, the bad guy... if he and his administration were gone everything would be great. The problems of this country (Iraq included) go far beyond Bush, his administration or even the Republican party.

[grumpy old fart]

43. Bingo. Congress essentially washed it's hands, again, of its obligation

under the constitution to declare war. And they continue to this day to be accessories to the criminal acts of aggressive illegal war. If most of us sitting in our living rooms knew what Bush was up to, that the WMD smoke screen was just that, a smoke screen, you have to know that 90% of Congress knew also. But hey, why rock their sweet corporatist boat?

[Jacobin]

70. You have got that right!!!!!

They were utterly complicit and responsible for this quagmire, except for those who voted against it.

[Delphinus]

42. I knew, Skidmore.

I knew it without a shadow of a doubt. Did I have any facts to back up my knowing? No - I simply knew. Not having facts is one of my biggest problems, but I was telling everyone who would listen that we were being lied to.

[XemaSab]

44. Word

I thought the WMD thing was a crock simply because Iraq has been under constant surveillance since 1991. We've been bombing them since then. We've had huge numbers of people on the ground. And finally, Saddam's not stupid and he knew which side his bread was buttered on. He knew that if he had WMD's, he would be deposed, and as long as he kept his ducks in a row, he could go on being dictator.

And I knew all this on September 12, 2001. And on September 10, 2001, for that matter.

One of the reasons why I was so apathetic about my support of a certain candidate is that he didn't see through it like I did and he was actually FOOLED by a president who had been nothing but a trickster up until that point. "Fool me once..." I knew the war was a dumb idea, and whatdyaknow, it turned out to be a dumb idea. "I told you so" is a very powerful phrase, and I try to keep it under wraps, but sometimes it just pops out.

[genius]

45. I did. I tried to convince some of the representatives.

Most were idiots.

[DemoTex]

46. I knew when Cheney picked himself to run as Bu$h's VP.

What other motivation other than a war with Iraq could Cheney possibly have had? He was SecDef during the 1st Gulf War, and he always acted like there was some unfinished business. Indeed. They were planning war before the 2000 elections. Cheney's presence on the ticket strongly supports my theory.

[spuddonna]

47. From the SOTU address, but I can't remember which one...

Sorry can't remember which one, if it was as far back as 2002, or was just before the run-up... But I specifically remember turning to my hubby and saying, "This is f'd up... He wants to 'pre-emptively' start a war to prevent Iraq from attacking us?! His own administration says it's not as big a threat as North Korea, Pakistan or Iran!!" Had a conversation with a staunch Repug bro-in-law too around same time and said, "Looks like we're headed to war." He said, "Oh no, Bush is just trying to scare them..."

[Talismom]

48. It was so obvious!

Waaaay before it was declared!

[donkeyotay]

49. I want to apologize in advance for apologizing for congress

They really should of known, since we did. But I will give them 3 excuses:

1) The shameless way this administration used 9-11, not to mention the anthrax attacks to promote an air of crisis, which must have been very intense in Washington.

2) I bet they were very concerned with how it would look if they appeared "soft on terror" and another attack had occurred.

3) What the congress authorized and what the president took are two different things. He was supposed to show that a) Iraq was connected to Sept. 11th, and b) peaceful options had been exhausted.

I apologize for apologizing for congress, but it's a lot easier to be on DU and hurl insults than to actually hold office.

[donkeyotay]

52. Remember they had been Willie Hortoned

From “Good Newt, Bad Newt” by Peter J Boyer, July 1989, Vanity Fair

The Bush campaign sank Dukakis by playing to the national gut --driving the public perception of the Democratic candidate to the far left with such devices as the Willie Horton ads, which portrayed Dukakis as being soft on crime by focusing on Massachusetts's prison-furlough program. (Horton, a scary-looking black man, raped a white woman while on a weekend leave from a Massachusetts prison.) The architect of that campaign, political consultant Lee Atwater, is now chairman of the Republican National Committee, and his former boss, political consultant Ed Rollins, is head of the National Republican Congressional Committee. Atwater was among the first to applaud Newt Gingrich's selection as whip: "He talks the kinda talk I like." It is clear that the Atwater-Rollins wing of the party, at least, intends Gingrich to be the Republicans' front man in the drive to do for all of the G.O.P. what Atwater did for George Bush--to "Willie Horton" the Democratic House of Representatives by hammering away at the theme of "institutional corruption."

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/newt/boyernewt1.html

The War on Terror is the new, improved version of the Soft on Crime issue. After all the bullying and bludgeoning, I'm really not too surprised the Democrats are gun shy, but it is amazing that this is still considered their problem and not the bullying Republican's.

[Donna Zen]

71. Wellstone was in a tough race

Feingold was in a tough race...

And they knew and voted "nay." Prehaps because they take seriously the charge that they have accepted: representing the best interest of the country.

The others valued their egos and their fame more than they valued their integrity and trust of the people.

This was a life and death matter...they knew. They were told behind closed doors what was going on and about to come down.

[flpoljunkie]

50. Point is * lied to American people when he said "war was his last resort."

This is what the Downing Street Memos make plain. Misleading a nation to war by lying to Congress and the American people is an impeachable offense.

[HughBeaumont]

51. Seriously, didn't he want to invade even BEFORE he was elected?

I remember reading about that somewhere that he (meaning, PNAC) had aspirations for invading and taking out Saddam as early as 1999.

[CTLawGuy]

54. I knew that inspectors were going back into Iraq and that

no one had yet found any banned WMD.

and I also knew that not ONE 9/11 hijacker was Iraqi.

[Nikki Stone 1]

55. 9/11/01

I saw the "Mohammad Atta meets Iraqi intelligence in Prague" story and thought, "Ok, this is about Iraq and we will see a war with Iraq soon."

I predicted it to friends and family who thought I was nuts. But it was so damned obvious to anyone who was watching.

[VOX]

56. On "election" eve, 2000, my wife said, "If * wins, how long before he..."

goes after Saddam?" Usually I am the gloomier and doomier of the two of us, but she outdid me that night.

[whatever4]

57. Mark me down too

The spin was obvious. Carefully constructed news bits and coordinated statements composed of the same words. Contraditions blithely thrown aside. I remember, turning aside and telling my husband, "Good God, he's going to start a war!"

I'd say, let's see, first they started talking about it, and it sounded crazy, and I thought they'd abandonded it. Then they toned it down, and then later in the course of a week it seems like, we were "going in". Probably 8 months beforehand. Didn't believe they'd actually go along with it though. I gave our representatives FAR too much faith.

Fool me once...

[baron j]

58. A George Bush in the White House, a recession--it was like

1991 all over again. An Iraq war couldn't be too far behind.

[MsTryska]

59. Hell i knew it was bull.....

spoke up about it too....called bullshit the entire time, and even gave predictions, which sadly the papers re-inforce everyday.

there's records of those posts soemwhere in cyberspace to this day i think.



what i don't understand is if i could see the ramifications so clearly how is it possible the powers that be couldn't?

[yorkiemommie1]

60. whole lot of us knew

but we didn't have our political 'selves' to protect so we had nothing to lose by telling the truth.

[Dave Sund]

61. Damn right

I'm not going to forgive any member of Congress for not doing their due diligence. They should have. But at the same time, it doesn't excuse the lies. They have a right to be angry, particularly those who, like us, KNEW that they were lying.

[understandinglife]

63. Told everyone I could get to listen to me during the fall of 2000 that ...

.... if the jerk was elected the two things you could be certain he would do were attack Iraq and slash taxes on the wealthy and corporations.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4173.htm


WE THE PEOPLE .... WILL NEVER FORGET

"... we sent our young people into harm's way without leveling with the American people." - Congresswoman Pelosi before Congress, 16 June 2005

Peace.


www.missionnotaccomplished.us - WE THE PEOPLE .... MUST FILE CHARGES, INDICT AND PROSECUTE BUSH AND ALL THE OTHER NEOCONSTER WAR CRIMINALS. IT'S THE LAW, STUPID

[Stinky The Clown]

64. I predicted this was in 1998 when the name of idiot son was first

floated in the media. In fact, it was when watching Bob Sheiffer on CBS when he spoke about idiot son and how he seemed to be the choice of Republican insiders even before he declared. I said it to Sparkly, who was watching that news show with me. It was a weeknight when Dan Rather was off. My specific prediction was that we would be at war with Iraq for no reason by the second year of a bush administration.

I also never thought he would win.

[Up2Late]

65. I saw it coming in July 2002, figured out why in August 2002

This was one of the first things I put on my Personal Web Pages.

Click Here to visit pages.

I never actually finished fixing the links though.

[libodem]

66. oh hell ya

I knew it for months...I kept asking myself if they are going to invade ...shouldn't they go NOW... before the dessert turns 120 degrees...i knew they were just playing with our minds, while they faked enough evidence to justify the illegal occupation... god, i hope the court of world public opinion slams them hard....and not 25 years from now....

[Jacobin]

68. (Raising Hand and Waving Wildly)

Many of us were here on DU blast emailing, faxing and calling congresscritters and posting op-eds from Bush I cabinet members and generals who were warning against the invasion.

And yes, it was crystal clear to me and most on DU that Smirk was going to invade and was just looking for some countries to go along nominally so he could say he had a coalition.

In short, if you were paying attention and not brain dead, you KNEW he was going to invade.

[Donna Zen]

72. Remember writing and calling

to get Ritter on the panel?

It was then a general that I had never heard of came forward and told them not to go. I couldn't believe my ears.

[ProudDad]

73. I knew they were lying!

"How do you know a bush is lying? His lips are moving."

It wasn't just that though.

I knew that the WMD were destroyed by Saddam while the U.N. inspectors were there until Clinton unilaterally pulled them in '98 (for his own macho reasons). I knew that it was very unlikely that even Clinton would allow Saddam to rebuild his war machine that the Clinton Administration KNEW was dismantled enough to render them a 4th world military power.

I knew it because of O.I.L., O.I.L, and O.I.L. The big oil bastards that are in charge now believe that it's their Manifest Destiny to control ALL oil and they wouldn't allow the 2nd largest known reserves remain in any other hands than theirs.

I knew because the whole damn permanent war economy that's been sold to the Amerikan people since '45 is bullshit. Always has been.

The news media knew too,

CBS News on February 21, 2003

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/01/18/iraq/main537096.shtml

How about this for the evolution of the big lie?:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1123

[Miss Chybil]

74. I knew. That's why it's old news, now. Everybody knew. Didn't you

know that?

Sometimes, I think we've hitched our wagon to a make-believe horse.

[Mythsaje]

75. My initial reaction to Bush was

"Bullshit!"

I never believed a goddam thing he said. When neocons are speaking, I'm 99% sure they're blowing smoke. We'd seen enough of the way these people think during the Clinton years. Attack dogs with tunnel vision, throwing out taurine feces like a shit cannon.

These people are ALL despicable liars. Powell was the only one I thought at all highly of, and he turned out to be as big a whore as Condoleeza.

I will give him a little credit...he made enough noise amongst the faithful that they booted him when Bush's second term started. And replaced him with the Bush Administration's resident bimbo.

[Rainscents]

77. I knew it when he was running for president summer of 2000. I even

told many people at work, he'll take us into war. Of course, people thought I was nut for saying this. Well, well, well... I was right!

[moondust]

78. Me too.

War is like a rite of passage for Republican presidents. If they don't take somebody on and win then they haven't proven their worth as a big tough guy/strong leader type.

In Bushrimp's case he had never done anything of merit so it was predictable as the sun rising in the morning that they would concoct a war to make him look like a hero (and get reelected). In 2000 the only question was who the unlucky victims would be.

[EVDebs]

79. The minute the 2000 'selection' of Bush by the Supremes, I knew

where we were headed and told my brother we'd be at war within six months. Well, it took a bit longer but, dang it, W is sooooo predictable.

[JHBowden]

80. I supported the idea for a while in 2002.

When Iraq wasn't letting inspectors in the country, regime change, not to mention just bombing the crap out of Iraq, were credible options.

Once the inspectors were let in in October 2002, I changed my opinion and thought the process should be given a chance. The lies leading up to the war -- Iraq being this huge imminent threat (drones, nukes, etc) that required removing the inspectors -- were grossly transparent.

[Geek_Girl]

81. At First I actually supported the War

Because I believed Powell and all the media BS about WMD's. But when all the crap started with Freedom Fries and that nonsense I knew something was not right. What world leader uses name calling to garner international support for a war?

[Donailin]

82. I knew. The minute the Asshat made that axis of evil speech

I knew that something was wrong. And then Cheney started with his comments and then within a month I had read the PNAC "Rebuilding America's Defenses" and I found myself extremely angry.

What also happened during that time in 2002 was my learning about Monsanto, and floride, and the pharmacuetical companys grip on the FDA as well as reading Howard Zinn's "Peoples History of the US" and a whole lot of Gore Vidal and Noam Chomsky. By Novemeber I was so disturbed by it all -- everything I was ever told about my country was wrong. By Novemebr I was protesting in DC. And then in January and then February more protesting. and on March 17th, the day the Asshat couldn't hold his load and prematurely ejaculated into someone elses desert, I literally cried for the planet, but especially for my children.

[rocktivity]

83. NOTHING Bush did after 9/11 made sense to me

from not wanting an investigation to supporting the inspectors one day and saying that Saddam's time was running out the next. In retrospect, I remember seeing two news stories at DU that should have tipped me off: a claim that the anthrax in those letters had been traced back to Iraq, and "frustrated" officials wishing they could torture people to get the counterterrorism information they needed.

Ultimately it was Colin Powell's UN presentation that crystallized everything. His bellowing, "You will find that this evidence is IRREFUTABLE!" and his abscence of enthusiam made me realize that a) there were no WMDs; b) Bush was invading Iraq no matter what; c) Bush HAD to invade Iraq no matter what because he couldn't ALLOW the inspectors to find that there were no WMDs. If there are no WMDs, there's no reason to invade, no way of commandeering Iraq's oil, and no opportunity to build 14 permanent military bases from which Bush would conquer the rest of the Middle East.

And now I'd like to take my hat off to all the DUers who predicted the outcome of this invasion right down to Osama remaining at large. Long before Bush started firing everyone who told him the truth about the war, I read posts about the lack of U.S. troop strength, the certain Sunni-Shiite conflict, our lack of experience in urban warfare, and how Bush was heading towards a political quagmire. Miss Cleo, eat your heart out!

:applause:
rocknation

[windbreeze]

105. But See....

Everything Bush did, made perfect sense....when one takes into account that he intended to invade Iraq way before he was ever "selected" to the presidency in 2000....Then when you take into consideration all the persons who made up the PNAC and it's plan for the US being THE World Power in the New Century (white paper published first in 1997) who are in the current admin or very close advisors of, how could it have turned out any different?..that's also why we will never know the real truth behind 9/11, and why all the objections were raised, to a thorough investigation...because w/o 9/11, how would Bush have come up with the justification for invading Iraq, which was his focus all along..perhaps born of an old plan called "Operation Northwoods" (that some of the PNAC members were well aware of)....Remember too, that no-bid contracts had already been awarded by the end of January or middle of Feb...for "rebuilding Iraq after the war"..His intentions were very clear, and all he had to do was lie with a straight face, repeatedly, to get his way (couldn't let the opportunity to realize his dream just fade away, after all)...Iraq was in his crosshairs, and I doubt it's going to stop there...After all the PNAC stated that Iraq, Iran, Syria, Lybia and N. Korea were the "axis of evil"...the handwriting for the future is on the wall...(oh, and regarding the anthrax....they knew exactly where it came from, and it wasn't Iraq (I read recently, Ft.Aims?)...anthrax carries a chemical ID, similar to DNA..and all subsequent mutations that come from a basic sample, are easily identifiable)
windbreeze

[rocktivity]

118. Seeing as I knew nothing of Northwoods and PNAC at the time

I am that much more amazed at how close I came to getting it right. It wasn't until after 9/11 that I read the PNAC report and its reference to the need for "another Pearl Harbor." Anyway, thanks for filling in the cracks, and welcome to DU!

:hi:
rocknation

[Boxerfan]

84. Oh Gawd yeah!

I was working with some of the uneducated rah-rah types around the time of the "buildup". I stated to my boss that he was going in regardless of what anyone told him,I just knew it from his body language.He was lying with every breath it seemed to me but I could only tell it at a "gut" level.

I've learned to trust my instincts. We were given them for a reason yet that & common sense seem so rare nowadays. Anyone using those tools for reasoning saw through it.

During a long lay-off after the election I delved into the internet seeking answers. Well, my life will never be the same after watching the WTC7 video & realizing what really happened( I work with metal & it is too obvious)...That lie caught me totally off guard to say the least so I guess gut instinct goes only so far.

[Donailin]

90. well there's instinct, and then there's intuition

welcome to DU Boxerfan!
:toast:

[kiraboo]

85. I watched Bush during the early part of his campaign for

office and I told my husband, "If we elect this man, he will involve us in a war." Before the election I told anybody who might be leaning toward him that I believed he was a warmonger. I don't know how I could tell, but I could. Naturally when the question of Afghanistan and then Iraq came up it was just a confirmation of what I expected. And although there appeared to be something like a good reason for invading Afghanistan the Bush administration used so many justifications for the action before the public got on board that I sensed the attack was more for show than anything else. I still believe this. And Iraq - I didn't believe the bullshit about Iraq for ten seconds. George W. Bush is an evil man. I wouldn't trust him to feed my cat, let alone run our country and wage war.

[ChiciB1]

88. The "Plan" Had Been Outlined Even BEFORE The

2000 Election. There is a document (or was), I think Greg Palast published it in the London Times, outlining the intentions of the Neo-Cons if they were successful in winning the election.

The first target was Iraq, then Iran, then Syria and I can't remember all of it. I even emailed them at that time stating that I was a Democrat and even I was dubious about the allegations. Then I asked them for more proof which they did send. There was a link that I was unable to open so I don't know what information was in it. I contacted quite a few people to see if they could get it to open but we were never successfully. I emailed them again and they sent another link, but still I couldn't open it. I still don't know what was in it.

So as things went, The Corrupt Ones got themselves into the White House by fraudulent means... then waaaaalaaaaa we had 9/11! Do I have other theories about THAT, well I didn't at the time, but as time has gone by, I've begun to wonder. I actually have wondered if 9/11 could have been something other than what we were told! I really hate even saying this, but I do know I read the document and saw the signatures. Bill Krystal, Rummy, Wolfie, Cheney, Bush and many more. I'm sure the document MUST be somewhere, but perhaps it's been buried.

It also went on to talk about a Space Program on the order of Star Wars so that America could gain control of air space before other countries. Carefully worded to state that this would be a "protection" in the event of a space war. I KNOW I read it and I know I sent it to many many others. But NOTHING was EVER EVER mentioned even throughout the 2000 campaign. I've always wondered why!

IT WAS A FOREGONE CONCLUSION THAT THERE WOULD BE A WAR IN IRAQ! If my dates are correct the document was written in late 1997 or early 1998! I know I'm not dreaming, I remember it VERY well!

[IdaBriggs]

91. I knew in November of 2000. I've even got it in writing. nt

[candice]

92. Yes, and it was a continuation of Gulf I

The Iraqi ambassador April (whatever) basically told Saddam that the U.S. wasn't going to be involved with his Kuwaiti land retrieval, which was a clear go-ahead for Saddam to invade Kuwait. After all, Reagan/Bush and the American taxpayer $$ made Saddam what he was. Why would we turn against him?

Also, what kind of government sends a woman as an ambassador to an Arab country? Sorry, when I was 20, I visited an Arab country and saw how women are treated as sub-human (although they did seem to be doing most of the labor). A woman just doesn't have the credibility diplomatically that a man would. There is also a need to be sensitive to cultural norms, even if they don't mirror ours.

The neo-cons desire to "democratize" Iraq and gain a foothold in the Middle East was well publicized. They were just looking for a means to invade, and what better than the son of Bush as President?

[union_maid]

93. I knew

It was Bush who convinced me that war with Iraq was a BAD idea. I don't know if I could have given you a fact based argument, other than the most obvious ones, though. I might have said, "Sure, they might have WMD, but so do others. Sure, Saddam is a bad man, but he's far from the only brutal dictator in the world. So why are we going to war?"

In fact, I did say that, and often.

I suspect that's not what you mean by "fact-based", though.

However, the louder the administration beat the drums of war, the more they appeared to be lying, or at least dis-assembling, in Bushspeak. Their refusal to accept anything but war became more and more transparent as the build up went on. And yes, I've said over and over, if I knew, why didn't the press even ask?

[ms liberty]

96. I know this sounds unbelievable, I saw it coming in 2000...

I was so against Dufus even then. I knew he would be a horrible prez, I'd read up on him and had been paying very close attention to everything political. (My husband says it was the beginning of an obsession, he's probably right) I can clearly remember, the day after one of the debates, discussing it with a couple of my coworkers. Naturally, here in the rural south, most of the people are repukes. I was so worked up, I was practically jumping up and down and yelling. I said "Has that idiot seen any news in the last 6 months? Did he not see the reports saying our biggest threat is from terrorism? It's all over the news because of the release of the report from that commission that studied it!!!" Of course, I said a lot more, but I don't remember all of it. Looking back, I was so upset...maybe I had a flashforward. Then, when 911 happened, it was like walking into a waking nightmare - and I still haven't woken up.
When the whole buildup to Iraq started, oh yea, it was the train wreck I saw coming and couldn't stop. When Uncle Colin lied at the UN I was SCREAMING at the TV all the information, real info that was available to anyone who bothered to look.
Now, it's easy to see it coming. You almost don't have to pay attention, because they're not even trying hard to hide their demonic agenda.
Anyone who says they didn't know are liars or deluding themselves.

edit: Ok, now I don't feel so wierd, I'm not the only one who knew what he was up for during the 1st campaign. I think for me it was those mean and beady little eyes. You can see his enjoyment in inflicting pain.
I also forgot til I was reading the other posts about the Project Censored books. I had read at least 5 or 6 of them from the 90's. One of their top 25 censored stories one year was the PNAC/neocon mission statement. There was so much info.

[tenshi816]

115. I hated him in 2000 too

and I wasn't even paying that much attention in those days. Because I had been unsuccessful in the previous election in even getting my absentee ballot sent to me here in England on time (that whole international mail thing just seemed too daunting for the Registrar, I guess), I had sort of tuned out of politics for a while.

I still remember how I felt when I first saw the Little Shit when the campaign started getting coverage over here. Like you said, those "mean and beady little eyes" - I could tell that this is not a good man. Plus he had that spoiled frat boy look I was so familiar with from my university days in Georgia and Tennessee, that look that smacks of an overall personal sense of entitlement.

I felt like the guy in "The Dead Zone", like I was the only person tuning in to it (no DU to warn me in those days, and I didn't even know an organization like Democrats Abroad existed).

After 9/11, when Bush suddenly (seemingly overnight in my memory, but surely it wasn't that abrupt) stopped talking about finding Osama and started talking about taking out Saddam, my reaction was "whaaat??". I started saying to anyone who would listen that, no, no, we should find our No. 1 "evildoer" before going after someone else. After all, didn't he promise to do that? Focus, Mr. President, finish one job before you start another one. There was no logic to it, and I knew right then that for all intents and purposes the hunt for Osama bin Laden was over and that a new war with Iraq was on its way. Dubya had been looking to do that since his daddy was in the White House and 9/11 gave him the opportunity to pull it off.

Sadly, it was also clear to everyone over here that Tony Blair would take Britain right along on "Mr. Dubya's Wild Ride".

I had the gut feeling GWB was a bad man from the very first time I saw him, but I had no idea of just how purely evil the little son of a bitch would turn out to be. Of course, my fundie Republican relatives back in Georgia think the sun shines out of his ass (although I can tell my dad is starting to have some buyer's remorse).

[NightOwwl]

97. I did...and I wish I'd known about DU back then.

I felt like I was in a very tiny minority...a minority of one.

[Eric J in MN]

98. I didn't know if Iraq had wmd or not, but I didn't want the US to

invade either way.

I figured that if Iraq had wmd, they would use them against US troops.

If not, then it would be a war based on a lie.

I did know that Bush would go to war if given the authorization.

I never believed Bush that the authoriazion was for peace or a last resort.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

99. I have been a total skeptic on U.S. foreign policy since Vietnam, so

I don't believe anything they tell me without outside corroboration.

The "case for war" made no sense: "Saddam Hussein is a dangerous madman who threatens the whole world, and conquering him and winning the hearts of his people will be a piece of cake."

[PassingFair]

100. Anyone who was paying attention knew...

that's why the DSM is falling flat. There was a TACIT understanding that the emperor would have his way, damn the facts.
To the cynical dems that voted to "authorize" the slaughter: I was listening to the roll call on NPR and had to pull my car over because tears were obscuring my vision.
I have this to say: If I am given HALF a choice to vote against you, I will.
I worked for Kerry despite his vote, because the frontloaded primaries denied us a straight talking candidate. The thought that these dems voted to give *ush his head in Iraq so that they could come back later and claim they were "lied to" makes my blood boil. Your cynical political "ploy" cost us THOUSANDS of dead and wounded Americans.
And HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of dead and wounded Iraqis.

[windbreeze]

102. Thank YOU

For coming out and saying this...I get sick of hearing how our Congress people were lied too...HOW? (by the way, how many of them read the "Patriot Act", and how many voted for it?) Did they have their eyes and ears closed? Or just their minds? IF the common man/woman knew we were being lied to, and we did...w/o benefit of living/working in DC, or w/o benefit of classified information...then they did too...It's called a cop-out!! (which they're getting quite good at, it seems)They are elected to watch out for us..and do what we want...Seems to me there were plenty of protests that told them what WE did NOT want, and that was a "war" in Iraq...then there's the old support the troops red herring...I support the troops, but I sure as hell don't support this "war" they are being forced to fight..and never did..
windbreeze

[FreeCajun]

103. Knew it on 9/10/01 when Rummie was on CBS News

talking about how we needed a new kind of military to face new threats that were in our future... his voice sounded very very threatening and O knew something bad was going to happen. Knew exactly what was up the next morning when I woke up to the sound of a frantic phone call from an aunt, playing through the answering machine and praying we were all OK.

[Fire Walk With Me]

106. Me. They talked about Iraq over and over and over, and they'd been there

before under Bush 1. Softening it up for Bush War 2.

When they refused to let the UN weapons inspectors back in, it showed that their minds were made up. And they mentioned some general taking governance of the large oil reserves :-/

Can you add? Anything they repeat ad nauseum, they'll either do, or never let go of, until they get it.

[medeak]

107. jeeeesusss! PNAC.. I was thrown out of house by husband

Can't tell you what I went through...lived in motel..my kids were scared.. I WAS SO FREAKING FREAKED out by the rumors in July of invading Iraq.

Now husband (a repug) has come around and confronts all his asswipe friends.. "where are the WMD's?" He's now proud of me.. but holy hell I went through HELL! And thank gawd for DU.. it kept me sane living in a remote repug town.

[NVMojo]

108. I felt they were feeding up pablum the minute the twin towers were hit!

...and then it got worse after I accidently found the PNAC website more than a half a year before we invaded Iraq.

[ngGale]

109. Most of us knew the minute Gore lost...

that the US was out of control. The night Bush coined 'the axis of evil' I felt every missile in the world turn toward us. Called my daughter and said, my gawd, the man is going to blow up the world.
He just threw down the gauntlet, ignorant SOB.

Every time Bush, et al - mentioned WMD, etc., it was followed by the CIA said this can not be proven. I remember everything that was said before the door shut.

Before we went into Iraq, I told everybody it was stupid. If we went in and didn't get out within a few weeks - we would never get out.
No reason to go in, but also not enough troops. Not to mention, Russia almost never got out of Afghanistan, they are laughing at us now. The whole Iraq lie never made any sense.

I hate being right, wish all of us had been wrong.

[LosinIt]

110. I knew, but only because I was checking out the news from DU

If I had depended on traditional media, I would have been fat, dumb, and happy like the rest of the US.

[TreasonousBastard]

112. We all knew...

right after 9/11 and the call for war was so strong.

When we went into Afghanistan instead of treating it as a criminal matter there was no doubt they wouldn't stop there. Not getting bin Laden then proved they had plans for more war.

Millions marched around the world as war plans were being made, and millions more marched with them in their hearts.

We all knew it was coming. Inevitable as the tides.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

113. My daughter thinks I'm psychic

My daughter graduated from high school in June of 2000 at age 17. She wanted to join the Air Force and wanted me to sign permission for her to do so. I refused and told her to really think about it, and if, when she turned 18 in February 2001, it was what she still wanted to do, then she could do it on her own signature.

Then there was that debacle of an "election" in November 2000. When the baboon was annointed by the SC, I sat her down and talked to her. I told her that I was CERTAIN, and I mean CERTAIN that the baboon WOULD take us to war in Iraq and that she needed to reconder her plans. She told me there was no way I could know that, and I told her, mark my words, he WILL find a reason.

2-3-2001 she joined the Air Force.

Not long after 9-11 she called me. I said, here it comes, watch, we WILL go to war in Iraq. She told me it wasn't possible, we'd go to Afghanistan. I told her, yes, and then she should watch and learn as the baboon made up reasons to go to Iraq and would connect them to the tragedy of 9-11.

Now she thinks I'm psychic. I'm not. It was plain to see for anyone who actually looked.

[endarkenment]

116. Never a moment's doubt.

Although I was mildly surprised that they couldn't find anything that they could point at and say 'look we found the WMD'.

The lying was freaking obvious. The collusion of the MSM was astounding. It certainly was a turning point for me in terms of my perception of the depth of the problem here at home.

[progressivejazz]

117. Plenty of us.

In fact, many of us saw a war coming somewhere as soon as Bush was selected in 2000. He obviously needed to become a "wartime president" in order to get any approval from the majority in this country for his right-wing plans for this country.

Those of us who told people about this before 9/11 have found those people at least don't buy any of this bullshit the spin machine and its henchmen, the corporate media, are throwing around daily. Those people, at least, see the truth and have ever since 9/11.

[Uncle Joe]

119. I knew it was coming when

Al Gore gave this speech in late spring, early summer of 2002.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-09-23-gore-text_x.htm