The Politics of Spin or why we just continue to shoot ourselves in the foo

[Wildewolfe]

In the last 24 hours we have seen Senator Durbin apologize for comparing the Gitmo camp to Nazi and communist concentrations camps. Here on the DU message board there have been dozens of posts about how he “wimped out” etc.

I lurked here for several months before declaring myself a liberal and a democrat. I’ve read the posts for all those times, and the one thing I am convinced about, is we, as liberals and the democratic party, don’t have a clue about how to spin a ball of yarn yet alone how to correctly attack the positions, standards and ethics of the Republicans in charge. Sadly, this naiveté is NOT shared by the Repubs… but fortunately their arrogance and confidence in their positions of power has made them start to slip as well. This gives us an opportunity to take back the perceptual high ground. We have to use FACTS not HYPERBOLE and slowly chip away at the faux righteous underpinning of the republican positions. It’s a FACT that abuse has happened and is still happening at Gitmo. It’s HYPERBOLE to compare it to the gulags. We aren’t going to get a one-shot kill with a huge story… we will win the war in the long run by concentrating and focusing on what can be documented and leaving the outlandish comments to the Repubs, while attacking THEIR ethics every time they do it.

The very first thing is choice and selection of language. We’ll use comparison of anything to being Nazi or any other reference to Hitler as a good example.

Wow… it’s strong language; it evokes memories of the Holocaust, concentrations camps, the murder of millions of Jews, homosexuals and free thinkers. It also IMMEDIATELY offends and alienates a significant portion of the population by comparing current events that do not currently come within several orders of magnitude of evil to the events of the real Nazis. The truly sad part about this, the ones it alienates the most are PART OF US. Its use erodes the very support within our own party that the comments are meant to evoke.

One poster here had it dead to rights accurate. Paraphrased (cause I’m too lazy to go look up the post) he said today’s people remember only the Nazis of 1945 they don’t remember the Nazis of 1933. I think that might be the truest statement I’ve seen today. While a comparison might be perfectly accurate to the fall of Germany into fascism, that is NOT the comparison that the average American or even the average Democrat makes upon initially hearing those words. The average American compares the Nazis as they were at the end of WW II, when the atrocities were discovered and weighs that image against whatever the person is trying to villainize. As bad as I believe Gitmo is, the abuses going on there don’t even make a pale shadow in comparison to that. The average American INSTANTLY dismisses the report as FALSE right at the moment of comparison because they are comparing the WRONG images. They dismiss it as false because they cannot imagine Americans as 1945 Nazis. It is not in their worldview. Worse yet, it causes divisiveness without our own party and gives the Republicans ample opportunity to eviscerate us with our own words, while they come off looking like white knights instead of oppressive bastards.

What is even worse about that, is that the credibility of the republicans in attacking durbin has increased, and Durbin’s creditability both inside and outside the democratic party has been slammed. The credibility of the Democratic party itself took a hit on this one, and it’s one we could have avoided, it’s a self inflicted wound.

The key thing here is stop looking for the grand slam hit it out of the park sound bite. It’s a losing proposition. For every grand slam there are 50 strike outs. Do the math, we do it we’re going to lose. We are right now, the underdogs. We have to back EVERYTHING we say up with facts and present those facts in a way that doesn’t immediately send everyone around the speaker scrambling for cover. The republican’s have been using the Big Lie method of propaganda now for several years. It’s finally starting to show it’s age, but they don’t realize it yet. Let them shoot themselves in the foot and then call them on it… instantly and every single time, with one voice coordinate the response when they shoot off their mouths and it won’t be the Democrats with egg on their faces.

No, right now we are not able to say the same things that Republicans can get away with. Deal with it, realize it, adjust fire and move on. It’s not fair, but that’s the way it is. Even if we could I would like to believe we won’t, because I truly believe we’re better people than that.

Encourage your senator and representatives within the party to WORK TOGETHER with one voice to condemn with facts, reasoning and without hyperbole the republican rhetoric and hypocracy. They should be talking every damn night and working out how and what they will be attacking the next day. If we do this we will win.

[LandOLincoln]

1. Brilliant--and hereby nominated for Greatest. Thank you from the

bottom of my (very frustrated) Liberal soul.

On edit: Welcome to DU! This is one of the most welcome and auspicious debuts it's been my pleasure to witness.

[jmaier]

2. Superb!

I wish that I had written this. It's the literate, cogent version of the ranting I've done from thread to thread.

Great job.

[Mairead]

3. Bad idea. Strong statements--including hyperbole--are what get coverage.

Dry recitations of facts do not.

The key fact to keep in mind is that any statement that disagrees with or opposes the rightwingers, no matter how factual or mildly put that statement might be, is treated exactly as though it were the most outrageously hyperbolic statement imaginable. (See, for example, Dean's recent statement about the GOP being mostly White Christians.)

And if you dispute that, then go find me some truthful complaint, however expressed, where the rightwingers acknowledged its truth and backed down.

[Wildewolfe]

5. DSMs?

Might be a great place to view facts causing a backpeddle in the repubs. They haven't been able to really dispute it, they are trying to ignore it.

Note though, I didn't say dry recitation of facts, I said to avoid hyperbolic and alliterations that are guaranteed LOSERS.

They key thing is to call them on Their bullcrap, but do not give them the opportunity to return the favor, because we have our ducks in a row.

Contrary to popular opinion... all press is not good for you. I would rather not see us get the bad press by our own doing.

[ibegurpard]

7. The point she is making

(and I DO agree we need to try avoid reckless rhetoric) is that they have the power to SPIN and DISTORT the most truthful and benign statements however they want. So being OVERLY cautious will win you nothing but no coverage.

[Wildewolfe]

13. Again, I didn't say be overly cautious...

I'm saying don't be delibrately RECKLASS.

Bad coverage, like what happened yesterday is far worse than no coverage.

[Mairead]

17. You are advocating being overly cautious, though. You just don't see it.

Take Durbin's statement, for example. When the rightwingers started clutching their chests and pointing fingers, if Durbin would have been smart, he'd have said 'Okay, what would YOU people compare that torture scene to, then? Or are you going to try to tell the American people and the world that that's your idea of business as usual?'

Put it back on them. Get everyone thinking about what that scene should be compared to. Make the rightwingers come up with a comparison. Keep the pressure on them.

[dooner]

27. I'm with you. n/t

[lyonn]

4. Being nice doesn't work

Or being Politically correct isn't working. It seems whenever a Dem speaks harshly about what the repubs are doing we get hammered. But, you gotta admit it gets attention. Maybe people will begin to think. Being Mr./Mrs. nice guy doesn't seem to get us anywhere. Look what happen with Kerry. When he was standing there at the Grand Canyon and said he'd vote the same on the war even knowing what he knew then was soooo dumb. It was a "me too" statement that the repubs were hammering the media with. Remember flip/flop?

I miss the Americans I knew of the past that had some guts and opinions other than what they heard on tv. Last night I read at antiwar.com, a site recommended by a DUer, a speech by Republican Rep. Paul from Tx. and in 2003 he stated so well what this administration is doing. If you don't search the internet people don't know the truth. Thank gawd for the internet, it may be what will save us, eventually.

Good post tho Wildwolf, makes one think.

[Wildewolfe]

6. I didn't say be nice

I said be smart.

There is a huge difference from being a moral coward and selecting verbage that causes the exact WRONG reaction.

[LiberalEconomist]

8. Right, instead of using

the Nazi concentration camp/Soviet gulag reference, we can compare Gitmo to a mideval torture chamber. This way we picture the ending scene of the movie "Braveheart." It also draws lines to barbaric behavior.

[Wildewolfe]

10. Actually that might have worked

It delivers a vague unpleasant image to the average person without the baggage associated with the other 2

[lyonn]

12. LOL, n/t

[lyonn]

9. On this site I can say very ugly things

Our representatives are on stage most of the time and I think sometimes it may be impossible to say the "proper" thing when you are as crazy as many Dems are with this administratioon's bs. As I said, being politically correct has gotten us nowhere! These Repubs are killing us.

[madeline_con]

21. Is see that a lot..

But I sense a LOT of fear in the Republican party. You don't take away basic freedoms under the guise of finding terrorists among us unless you're running scared.

They have an Achilles heel. Everybody does (though I'm not sure of the specifics of what theirs may be).

We need to find it, and jab it repeatedly with a sharp stick every chance we get.

[Nikki Stone 1]

11. Excellent and recommended.

"One poster here had it dead to rights accurate. Paraphrased (cause I’m too lazy to go look up the post) he said today’s people remember only the Nazis of 1945 they don’t remember the Nazis of 1933. I think that might be the truest statement I’ve seen today. "

Amen.

[BillZBubb]

14. STRONGLY DISAGREE!

If we set the standard that we have to back everything up with facts and present them is a way that the Republicans and their minions in the corporate media will approve of, we will REMAIN THE WEAK OPPOSITION PARTY.

In fact, what you are suggesting is exactly what the Democrats HAVE been doing for years. And they have been getting the shit kicked out of them by flame throwers from the right. We get ignored by the media while they saturate the airwaves.

Durbin's mistake was to apologize--not making the comparison to tyrannies past.

What Democrats must learn to do is to seque from a strong statement like Durbin's into a powerful argument in support of the underlying position. Make a powerful statement. Get the media and Repugs on the attack. Then start the fact filled counter-attack about the central point after the media and Repugs have taken the bait. That's how to win given the current media situation.

Your way is the path to nowhere.

[Wildewolfe]

15. did you actually read what I said?

:P

The point I am making is certain language, in this case reference to Nazi and communist comparisons have an immediate an opposite effect to the desired effect. It does not matter one bit if the comparison is 100% justified or not.

The negative fallout for that one comparison wiped out the opportunity to do what you suggest. The legs were cut out from under durbin when he was forced to apologize, I suspect from how own political base who got offended rather than anything the repubs had to say about it.

What needs to happen is what the repubs do to us. We need to get our own leaders working together on a single agenda, in lockstep though I despise that term, and immdediately after Durbin gets up there to start it, then another then another then another, in unison and working together. Use the word Nazi in a speach and everyone else runs for cover.

The other thing I said is we need, once we get our act together, to hold the repubs accountable for their comments. In the last 3 months how many Nazi comparisons have they made? Did we get one apology for any of it? Why not? Because we're not united in our stance and it's hard for the pot to call the kettle black for making the comparison.

[BillZBubb]

19. I read what you said and I DISAGREE!

The legs were cut out from Durbin when he apologized--not because he was "forced" to apologize. How the hell was he "forced"???

The Repugs don't make apologies because they know politically it is seen as weak to do so. The don't needle each other to apologize. They remain united and use the comment to move onto something else. They are viewed as the tough, fighting party. The Democrats never learn that basic lesson. That's why we always lose the male vote big.

The negative fallout DID NOT wipe out any opportunity. It opened up a great opportunity that, as usual, the Democrats failed to grab. We had the Repugs and the media opened up to a counter-attack--but instead of laying into them, we caved. You have this totally wrong and your wimpy prescription would only continue our failure in national politics.

[madeline_con]

22. hold on

maybe not back everything up in a way the minions approve of, but in a reasonable way that makes sense to the American voter. Who gives a tinker's dam what corporate minions think? Aren't they the ones we're tring to kick to the curb?

[yodermon]

16. Don't forget.

THE RIGHT WING OWNS THE MEDIA.
THE RIGHT WING OWNS THE MEDIA.
THE RIGHT WING OWNS THE MEDIA.

This means that the playing field is NOT level in the court of public opinion.

This means that no matter how cogent and factual and in-a-row our ducks are, everything will get spun every which way from Sunday (or simply IGNORED, re gannon) to favor the repukes and denigrate us.

Another poster had it right: even the most basic statement of fact gets spun by the CMC as HYPERBOLE, thus managing the impressions of the masses.

That's why I think Dean has a good strategy lately: try to use the spin machine to our advantage by getting the memes out there ANY WHICH WAY WE CAN. We can't turn into DLC milquetoasts just because we're worried that oh no, Aaron Brown might obliquely imply that we're a bit over the top on this one, chuckle, ah those Dem nattering nabobs of negativism. The damage has been done, over and over for the past decade+. We cannot continue to play by the rules of conventional wisdom bcz we've been trumped.

That Durbin made the nazi comparison is a GOOD THING. The meme is out there. Even if the meme is "Democrats think Gitmo is like the Nazi camps", the SUB-MEME (and therefore residing deeper in the subconscious) is "Gitmo is like the Nazi camps".

We will be attacked ad-hominem NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY, so we might as well speak the fucking truth.

edit for spelling

[wyldwolf]

18. dad....?

DAD!!!

Great post!

[Clark2008]

26. Is this your Dad?

Really?

Or someone you wish was?

:applause:

I love it when parents come on board!

[madeline_con]

20. One small point and I'll shut up.

IMO, the comparison to Nazism is convenient, and the image it connotes is universal. That's why the widespread use of it.

To compare GITMO to the Black Hole of Calcutta might not be as effective, because so many Americans couldn't find Calcutta on a friggin map anyway, and think it's some porn movie or something.

But, we all know Nazi equals very, very bad.

As promised, I will now shut up. :)

[mpendragon]

23. I guess we have higher standards but infighting isn't productive.

They'll defend obvious lies until their last breath and then claim they never said it and then claim it is old news and nobody cares. We expect more from ourselves and our fellow party members.

[Kurovski]

24. Durbin brought the problems of detainment and torture to the fore.

The corporate media has been downplaying it for what, a year now?

Durbin took a bullet, so to speak. He is in a strong position, he will survive-even thrive.

Dems will have to deal with being shouted down whether they are timid or brash. Brash works better. Your message spreads farther and for a longer amount of time.

Torture is now being given a serious look by many Americans who were lulled into believing it was all being handled, or that it was "a few bad eggs" responsible for torture.

Dean makes it work for him, others in the party are learning.

Durbin was very successful on many levels, he did his job in informing the American people. He has done what much of the media continues to fail at.

[AlGore-08.com]

25. The Dems do bust the GOP on this stuff

When the GOP makes their own Nazi and Hitler references, the Dem establishment cries foul, Dems get up on the floor of the House and Senate and denounce it, Dems go on talk shows and talk radio to denounce it. Ditto when the GOP flip flops. It doesn't get covered.

Additionally, it wouldn't have mattered what metaphor Durbin used to describe the torture at Gitmo. The GOP response to criticism is to focus on one word or phrase, and pretend righteous indignation. If Durbin had compared it the Spanish Inquisition, the GOP would be howling that Durbin had dissed the Catholic church. If Durbin had not used a specific historical comparison, and just used something like "dictatorship" or "repressive regime", he would have gotten the same flack that he's getting now for "attacking the troops".

One of the reasons that we're in the hole we're in is that people continue to believe that there is some magic stance or sound byte or even candidate who will be immune to this type of attack. It's not possible. The attack system is designed to dig for tiny, insignificant details and blow them out of proportion until they seem to be huge flaws. The system is designed to take advantage of the flaws in the media - - the fact that news rooms are now run to make a profit, and news gathering organizations do not have the resources to research their own stories. As a result, they mimic the most financially successful format (Faux news, which has very low costs compared to a traditional news room), and accept someone else's news story as verified. So if Fox news covers Durbin's remarks (but ignores the torture he was trying to highlight), NBC and CBS and ABC and the NYT and the WashPost will cover the event the same way too (rather than "wasting" time and money to discover if there is another, better story about Durbin's remarks). Once the item is reported this way ("Durbin shocks with Nazi reference"), conservatives go on talk shows, pretending to be violently offended. The longer this goes on, the more folks will hear that Dick Durbin is a major partisan jerk, and remember that the next time they hear Dick Durbin's name.

Again, this GOP "rapid response" system is designed to smear anyone and everyone who does not capitulate 100% of the time. And it always involves attacking character and questioning motives, rather than discussing facts and policies. Because anybody can be made to look like a jerk and any motive can be implied without even a shred of fact to support it. Because it's much easier to scream that Dick Durbin's remarks are deeply offensive than to defend leaving prisoners chained naked on the floor to defecate and urinate on themselves. And the longer we all debate about whether Dick Durbin picked the right way to bring the torture to the public attention, the longer it will be before we all actually discuss the torture. With any "luck" that discussion will not occur until it's too late to do anything meaningful about it - - the 2006 midterms will be over. And if the Durbin flap dies down before then (as it almost certianly will), the system will kick in the next time the GOP doesn't want the public to hear the Dem viewpoint.

And the "best" thing about the system from the GOP standpoint is that each Dem victim makes the next Dem victim more plausible. In the 2002 races, both Tom Daschle and Max Cleland were successfully smeared by the GOP as a traitors, and I will bet you a cookie you can't find a statement or action either man made that would come within a light year of warranting that label.

The thing that will change this is not finding a totally unobjectionable Dem to say totally unobjectionable things. The thing that will change it is us, putting pressure on the media. If we can get enough of the media to report even a little more objectively - - or alternatively, if we can develop enough of our own infrastructure to get another point of view in the media's public discussions - - the stranglehold of the GOP spin machine will be broken.