I don't really mind DUers accusing me of being anti-DEM- but may I ask...

[Dr Fate]

What have you done for DEMs over the past 3 years or more anyway?

How much money have you raised?

How many Red State DEM organizations did you help charter?

How many Red State Iraq War protests did you organize?

How many doors did you knock on? Phone calls?

How many HOURS did you spend on corners campaigning?

Just because I constantly question why DEMs are not on TV raising certain issues, and just because I don't make excuses for the "strategists" who lost the last 3 election cycles does not warrant false statements about me.

I don't mind the personal attacks and insinuations-I expect them- so long as they are not the sole replacement for arguing why I am either right or wrong.

No flames here- This thread is to discuss what DUers have done for Democrats.

I'll continue to "Bash" DEMS when I feel they are making mistakes on other threads. I'll "alert" all false, personal attacks against me from now on.


Thanks for listening,

Doc.

[donco6]

1. Oooooo-ooooo

:scared:

[Dr Fate]

2. What have you done for Democrats over the past few years?

For starters, I raised over $30,000.00 for Kerry in a span of two months.

How about you?

[donco6]

3. Ooooo-ooooo

(not giving a flip)

[Dr Fate]

4. Thanks for you contribution! n/t

n/t

[donco6]

7. OK, here's a contribution:

Why do you care what others think of you? You've obviously done a lot. You don't need to justify it to anyone. Likewise, no one needs to justify their life to you. If people are bashing you falsely and unfairly (and I have no idea what you're referring to), use a polite tone and tell 'em to fuck off. Who needs them?

That's my two cents worth. And I don't care if you like it or not.

[Dr Fate]

10. I'm doing that now- thanks for the advice.

It's not that I care what people think of ME- its that DUers question my loyalty as a way to try to weaken & discredit my arguments.

This is the one thread where I'm challenging those folks to make it about me or them rather than the argument at hand- so we can get it all out of the way.

[donco6]

12. Ultimately, only you know your loyalty.

Right? I mean, who can really look into your soul and know what you believe and think? No one but you. People who question loyalty are falling into Inquisition-style arguments, and they're just not worth fighting. There's no winning a loyalty question.

Sorry for pimping you with the Ooooo shit.

[Dr Fate]

14. Sound advice, thanks.

n/t

[jmcon007]

28. you can be 100% sure that when someone whines about what

they've given while looking around questioning everybody else's "loyalty", they either didn't give (or raise) anything or what they did give was painful and not in the right spirit. Period. Giving doesn't make anyone immune from criticism.

Go cry somewhere else.

[pox americana]

38. you got my vote Doc

30K ain't chump change!

p.s. please don't be discouraged. This country needs more good people speaking out, especially now. We're in worse trouble than we know. The bill will come after the looters have been chased out, kind of like that other Texas pipeline outfit.

[LittleClarkie]

5. From now on? Shoulda been doing it all along dude

Defend yerself.

And the term is not "bash" if you are asking an honest question, looking for an answer. I keep trying to explain that.

It's the one-liners made for one's own amusement that get me. "What's he doin'? Windsurfing? HAR!" and so on. Not constructive really.

[Dr Fate]

6. I do defend my arguments. That is why folks use the personal attacks!

And for the record- I never said-"What's he doin'? Windsurfing? HAR!"

Just in case anyone gets that idea from your post.

I'm defending my loyalty to DEMs in this one thread- I wont waste space on other threads doing it anymore.

[LittleClarkie]

13. Don't be terribly shocked when it goes bye bye

btw.

Posts about posts and about DU in general go bye bye. I don't think it's allowed, exactly. Just so you won't be shocked when it does.

[Dr Fate]

16. No problem.

I said it once.

[BeHereNow]

8. How DARE you!

Think or question the ever blurring line
of the military industrial congressional complex
influence on both "parties."
Now shut up and be a good blue sheeple
or the wolves will attack you for pointing out
inconsistencies between the words and actions
of certain "democrats."
(sarcasm; intended and deliberate)
Hugs-
BHN

[sadiesworld]

9. You don't need to justify jack.

My guess is that most of the people who don't collect a paycheck for posting here agree with you.

[BeHereNow]

11. ROLF...

Beautimous post Sadie.
BHN

[meppie-meppie not]

30. self delete

[ElectroPrincess]

32. That includes me ...

I catch hell from fellow liberals because my family has a proud tradition of military service back to the civil war (Henry G. was a mule skinner for The North). :-)

After the initial invasion, I was pushing like hell to have Rummy get "many more" troops on the ground. Back in 2004, I believed that we may be able to get out of Iraq if we were able to provide security for the average Iraqi from looting and various crimes.

I've caught hell for it (believing in the good troops - recruited as a chance for school - poverty draftees) and for being pro 2nd amendment. Somehow those mixed beliefs makes me a Bad Democrat.

Let me be honest, in that, I'd much rather prosecute from the Top Down. If the Platoon Leaders believed that they would be supported up the chain of command, I believe that they would be much more forthcoming.

And yes, I haven't raised near as much money as you, but I have volunteered numerous hours with the local democrats - working polls and handing out literature at events.

When the working class moderate republicans reach out for our support, I strongly suggest that the more liberal or left leaning members allow the rest of us to help them understand that they have been mislead.

It serves no useful purpose to always default to an "Us vs. Them" approach. Please remember that very few people are truly evil. Many of the average "Bush / Cheney voters" have been misled and are supported by other republicans. However, when they pause to re-evaluate what they truly stand for, we should not turn them away.

I hope that we don't do that because there are "good people" on both sides of the aisle. It's the fringes on both ends that causes the chaos.

At least within the DU community, those of us who believe in America - The Democratic Republic ... Could we all do our best (from Liberal to Conservative Democrats) to find "common ground"?

[MoonRiver]

36. You called it!

:applause:

[MuseRider]

15. WTF?

Calling you anti DEM? Man, you do some good work here keeping some honest and challenging others to do more.

I don't know you and have rarely been in your threads but I read them. I think they are important. If someone gets on your case I usually see you doing a good job of defending yourself. I don't know about the last few days because our cable has been iffy and I have missed a lot. Keep it up is what I would say.

Hey, good job raising money! I do lots but I have never been able to raise money like that. WTG! Wanna come to Kansas and teach me how to do that? J/king, nobody wants to come to Kansas, lol.

[Dr Fate]

17. Raising money is simple: "Ask and you shall receive"

mixed with a slight dash of "tell them what they want to hear." (I'm just being honest!) Part of that is knowing your audience/demographic.

Raising $$$ for Kerry was easy actually- EVERYONE was enthusiastic about that campaign.

[MuseRider]

18. It is the area

of my least skill. I get really uncomfortable doing it. Thanks though. It is really interesting, Kerry was quite popular here, enough so that I thought it would be very close if not a win for him (yes I know I am an idiot). He did not even come close yet people here liked him a lot.

Keep it up.

[Dr Fate]

20. I'm serious though- you would be suprised what happens when you ask!

I know it sounds simplistic, but simply mustering up the courage to ask is over half the battle!

Best of luck to you in your activism as well!

[MuseRider]

23. Thanks.

I will go out on a limb and try. We are starting a state wide group here and I am on the steering committee and raising money will be part of it once we set up a model and the bylaws etc. Maybe it will be just the push I need.

[BeHereNow]

19. Ah but, in the midwest, where jobs don't exist-

it is rather difficult to squeeze juice from
turnips who have recently experienced
outsourcing of their soil...

Sad, but true.
BHN

[Dr Fate]

21. Same story everywhere.

But those $10- to $50 dollar checks can add up!

[BeHereNow]

25. True, true!

Especially when people understand the power of grass root
movements.
I have not done it (fundraising) on the same level as you, but I
do know the first step is informing people that they
are not alone in their condition and that by binding their
resources, however meager,
together they CAN change it collectively!
BHN

[Adelante]

22. I don't call you anti-Dem, Dr Fate

I know you to be a sincere person and I respect you too much to doubt your motives.

On your questions, in 38 years it's just too much to list here, but I been busy. :D

[Dr Fate]

24. We will stay busy together, in spirit.

That is part of what DU is all about.

[Eloriel]

26. Well, why not answer those questions yourself?

It's fine to turn the tables, but you haven't exactly explained why you aren't anti-Dem.

I don't care one way or the other -- and haven't been part of those you're objecting to. Just pointing out a logical fallacy in your post. You ask those questions as if they all apply to you. DO THEY? If so, you need to make that explicit.

[Dr Fate]

27. I've also failed to state when I stopped beating my wife!!!

Whether I ever did beat her only comes up when other DUers dont have a counter argument for the debate at hand!!!

Yes- I've done everything I mentioned and will continue working on the issues I care about!!!

[ElectroPrincess]

34. Yes, I haven't monitored you - I get my own challenges ...

However, many of us (myself often included) give ole' WyldWolf and BullGooseLoney "too much hell."

But they take it graciously ... they are determined and persistent so I'm tempted to often read their posts (although the anti-DLC part of me wishes otherwise).

IMO no worries, we all have a few people on this board who will dislike us no matter what we do. I think you're doing great for I suck at asking for money. Known this since I was a Girl Scout selling cookies, "Would you like some Girl Scout Cookies Lady?" Response: "NO!" Oh, OK. (couldn't make DA sale) :shrug:

Hang in there :-)

[brentspeak]

29. self-delete

delete

[meppie-meppie not]

31. if you're anti-dem then so am I

The questions you raise are valid and need to be asked. Sticking our head in the sand like silly ostriches or following blindly to pandering wimps isn't going to change a thing. We need leadership with back bone and who are willing to take a stand for what they were elected for and not simply be bending over for the repukes.

[Clark2008]

33. Not that it matters, but everything I do, I do in a red state.

:hug:

I understand most of your points, to be quite honest: you want Dems to stop being so wishy-washy and afraid of the Republican Noise Machine and actually get on television and say what they mean and mean what they say.

You want them out, spouting talking points like the Republicans do.

You want them to stop ignoring the South and the mid-West and writing them off as lost causes.

I agree with every single point.

Of course, I'm a fan of a red-state denizen who goes on the most highly-rated cable channel - into the lion's den - to get the Dem talking points out to other red-state denizens, so, of course, I'd agree with you! :7

[KoKo]

35. Who's been attacking you?

Vicious Hate Mail DU PM's?

Shame on them. You just keep asking who is speaking up. (But I notice you always give Kerry a pass. :evilgrin:)

Just joking with you.

[ElectroPrincess]

37. Yeah, perhaps KoKo and me could like ...

give um a friendly visit? :crazy: <total tease!>