The DNC responds to Karl Rove

[Larkspur]

http://www.democrats.org/blog/comment/00012258.html>http://www.democrats.org/blog/comment/00012258.html

Rove is right: there are differences

White House spokesman Scott McClellan says that Karl Rove just meant that Democrats and Republicans had "different philosophies" when it comes to their reactions following 9/11. We agree. Our philosophies couldn't be more different when it comes to fighting international terrorism. Let's compare:

Democrats
Believe capturing the person primarily responsible for the attack should be a top priority.

Republicans
It's been four years, and Osama bin Laden is still free, even though Bush's CIA chief says he knows where he is.

Democrats
Investigate the intelligence failures that led to 9/11.

Republicans
Do everything in their power to block the 9/11 Commission from doing its work.

Democrats
Propose creating the Department of Homeland Security.

Republicans
Push tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans.

Democrats
Believe we should have stayed the course in Afghanistan, not allowing the Taliban to resurge, the warlords to take power, and the opium trade to skyrocket.

Republicans
Ignore Afghanistan as the situation worsens.

Democrats
Believe that we should be honest with our troops about the reasons we go to war, give them everything they need to be safe, and make sure we go in with an exit plan.

Republicans
Manipulate intelligence to trump up reasons to go to war, don't give our troops the support they need, constantly mislead the public about the direction the war is going, and fail to make an exit plan. And turn Iraq into the ultimate terrorist training ground.

[Coexist]

1. Nice.

[lebkuchen]

2. Rove's comments were not only divisive, but Fascist

He should be booted from the GOP if the Grand Old Party wants to retain any respect whatsoever.

[whistle]

9. I think KKKarl Rove opened the way with his attack on liberal democrats

...for the democrats to counter with our own list of labels and name calling beginning with the labels of Fascists, Nazis, concentration camps and gulags.

[lebkuchen]

20. Baiting, which is what the Bushies tried with Iraq, and Iran and Syria

Why reply in kind, with GOP rottweiler-like attacks, when reason can more easily prevail?

[tavalon]

27. Yeah, reason has been working

great for the Democrats for the last few years. Not!

Nope, it's way past time to kick ass and take numbers.

[aquart]

44. We were NOT reasoning. We were apologizing.

And Karl's goal is to make the public feel it's just a spat between two identically immature groups: See? We BOTH do it.

Blurring is the only thing he can do now. And that only happens if we take the bait.

[lebkuchen]

55. Who said reasoning and kicking ass aren't one and the same?

I've been doing both for the last several years, in public. I must be having some effect because I've had to change my computer IP, as well as CPU, on more than one occasion.

Piss off a RWer. Use reason and kick 'em in the head with it.

[mom cat]

62. I thought that the Dem statement was both reasoned and kick-ass!

They came out swinging with the hard truth....and it sounded good for a change!

[lebkuchen]

64. Voters are drop-kicking these RW assholes with panache

as per phone calls, letters, organizing, protesting. The common folk have left many of our congressional patricians in the dust.

[mom cat]

65. It's about time. Late-comers will finifh last!

[mom cat]

82. And their little poodle press too!

[JohnnyBoots]

28. I agree Karl wants us to snap back so he can have the media

play it up and make us appologize again. It is like two siblings trying to get the other in trouble with mom and dad. We need to state the truth in a wide spread manner that will get a lot of public attention. How to do that is the true problem. It is like hockey to, we just got cheap shotted, we need to take Rove's jersey number and get him back when the ref isn't looking. Otherwise we play right into his hands by taking a bad penalty in the court of public opinion.

[Capn Sunshine]

35. Attitudes like this keep us in the minority

I guess you haven't noticed that the voting public LIKES us to point out our differences, and NOT just quietly accept republican lies. Or maybe you missed the Swift Boaters?

Letting such scurrilious comments pass with no response indicates to EVERYONE, except folks that think like you, that there is truth in the comments.

[Mugsy]

14. Changing the tone in Washington

So much for Bush's pledge of "Changing the tone in Washington".

He has: it's nastier.

Praising Rove for his comments prove this is EXACTLY the tone they want to set.

[gratuitous]

15. Indeed

And what seems to have been left off of most reporting on this is that Karl Rove is not a strictly political operative: He's on the staff at the White House. That means that ostensibly, he's supposed to be representing ALL the people. Now, how does bashing half the population, and according to the polls, 59% of us now don't like the direction the country is heading and disagree with what we're doing in Iraq. How does Rove square his mean-spirited, divisive, fascist comments condemnatory of so more than half the population when he's supposed to be working on behalf of all of us?

[lebkuchen]

21. One hopes

you have sent your post to the editor of your local paper. :)

[Cha]

83. DUer bpilgram said

that "rove has descended to RUSH-SPEAK and the M$MWs cover it like its BRILLIANT"

I think that sums it up.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NYCGirl]

6. The guy that wrote that works for the DNC. It's an official DNC post.

It's linked from the main site, too.

http://www.democrats.org/index2.html

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[katinmn]

4. Repubs also spirited away key people that should have been interviewed

Bin Laden's family members were sneakily flown out of the country on Sept. 13 before real law enforcement could interview them.

So the "Patriot Act" applies to Americans but not Saudis who are blood relatives of the person who claimed responsibility for 3,000 deaths on U.S. soil?

I have never heard of a situation where a mass murderers' relatives are not interviewed. So maybe Bush-Cheney-Rove fabricated OBL?

[MGKrebs]

13. I think that's an important point too.

We had a weak response?
WE are not the ones who sent possibly connected individuals out of the country!

[Capn Sunshine]

38. WE are not the ones whose first business partner was a Bin Laden!

(*)

WE are not the ones who were having lunch on 9/11 with a Bin Laden!
(poppy)

No, those "coincidences" belong to the BFEE.

[deutsey]

5. Proof that evolution is real

Why, not too long ago the DNC was an amorphous goo swishing this way and that in the shifting currents.

Now, it appears as though signs of a spinal column and brain are indeed developing and the goo seems to be intentionally (willfully, even) swimming against the prevailing currents.

:evilgrin:

[0rganism]

81. That spinal column is named Howard Dean

The sound you hear is the primal scream of enraged chordata.

[central scrutinizer]

7. similar list by a DUer

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1879795

[Sparkly]

8. Right ON!!! n/t

[Roland99]

10. Hammer....meet nail.

[paineinthearse]

12. Proud to give the 12th GREATEST vote.

:kick:

[Tsiyu]

16. That about sums it up, Larkspur

I wish every remaining member of the dwindling Repuke Party had a copy of your words this morning.

[pstans]

17. This is exactly what the Democratic Party needs to do

It goes right along with what Howard Dean said on The Daily Show last night: point out the hypocrisy of the Republicans and Dean might be taking Stewart's advice about forming a shadow Government and telling what Democrats would have done in the situation.

:toast:

[aresef]

19. Just like Dean said

They're calling the Repukes' BS.

[V Lee]

18. Well said!

>> What's on Bill's mind? Political commentary with attitude and more at http://www.BillsBrain.com

[tk2kewl]

22. I wonder if DUers sending Senator brentspeak's comments

to their senators influenced this reply?!!

If you missed brentspeak's post yesterday it was brilliant and I sent it to Clinton and Schumer...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1879795

[Gronk Groks]

36. Sent Brentspeak to Senator Reid

Courtesy Democratic Underground, with love...

There are some advantages to living in Nevada...:evilgrin:

[ticapnews]

59. That was one of the best posts I've seen on here...

I added a few more and sent it off to Susan Collins. I sent a separate letter to Olympia Snowe (which her staff will dutifully delete without reading)

I also suggest sending it to media outlets. My two local papers have been getting shelled this week with letters about not covering DSM, this would make an effective Round Two in the liberal offensive.

In the immortal words of Paul Begala: Attack! Attack! Attack!

[DBoon]

23. Excellent!

and I hope this makes the MSM...

[DirtyDawg]

24. I'm sorry but...

...I don't think Howard was nearly as effective on TDS last night as he might have been. Like having this list to use, for example. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for calling bullshit, bullshit...and I fundamentally buy into the 'love thy neighbor - and you can't pick your neighbors' concept. But, this business of dancing around the Iraq war has got to stop. We don't need to equivocate over this thing any longer. They, bushco, got us into this mess because that's what they wanted to do...they've screwed it up at every turn...and for the demos to have to come up with a solution as a matter of debate, is horse-shit. Repigs have made such a mess of this thing who knows what it will take to fix it. All I know is that they - repigs - have proven that they aren't the ones that deserve to be doing it (of course that was the question that should have been dealt with last November). And as for the demos having some sort of 'shadow gov/group' to counter repig decisions and policies, hell, all the demos need to do is to say that bushco basically re-writes the demo platform every 'effin' day. Everything that they do is precisely 180 degrees from what the country ought to be doing. Name one damn thing that they've done that could be objectively labeled as honorable and in the best interests of the United States at home and abroad. Can't do it because everything they've done has simply been geared to grabbing power in order to better 'loot the treasury' for them and their henchmen.

[JRob]

25. bong!

[tavalon]

26. Wow, who grew the iron gonads?

Fabulous. Couldn't have said it better. Suck on this one, Rove, ya bastard. I guess your mother liked you, but I haven't met anyone else who does Karl.

[Dr Fate]

51. It's easy to be brave on a web-site that only donors go too.

The question is whether Top Democrats will go on TV in a unified manner and make these charges.

[tavalon]

70. Good point n/t

[Patchuli]

75. What have you done lately, Dr. Fate?

Have you contacted your senators, especially repuke senators to see if they are joining the effort to force Bush to answer to the DSM? Have you contacted them to complain about Karl Rove and demand an apology?

Please don't tell me all you do is post your complaints on DU? Would you like to see the response I got from Senator Barbara Boxer today regarding the MSM and what the senate Democrats are doing about it? Another target of yours, Senator Kerry spearheaded the senate inquiry into the DSM. Let me know what YOUR senators are doing, K?

[Patchuli]

78. Here's John Kerry's letter for you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1883116

Now do you think the MSM is going to give this air time? It's not just about our leaders doing anything, it's about the MSM doing something too!

[wryter2000]

29. Well done!

Dr. Dean at work.

[holboz]

30. Excellent response - every Dem should commit these to memory!

These are the messages we need to get out to people for '06

[Up2Late]

31. Although I agree with what he posted, Who is Jesse Berney? And...

...does Jesse Berney speak for the DNC?

Unless the poster is Howard Dean or some one high up at the DNC, I don't think this message board post should be represented as: "The DNC responds to Karl Rove," It's just a Post on a message board.

[NYCGirl]

34. Jesse Berney works for the DNC as web content developer.

Edited to add link:

http://www.wage-slave.org/bio.html

[Up2Late]

39. Thanks, which only serves to underscores my second point...

...when I said, "...I don't think this message board post should be represented as: "The DNC responds to Karl Rove,"..."

"...He currently works as Web Content Developer at the Democratic National Committee, where you can read his postings on the DNC blog, Kicking Ass. The opinions expressed on this site do not reflect the positions of the Democratic National Committee...."

[Capn Sunshine]

40. You completely misunderstood that disclaimer

It was for his WageSlave Journal blog, NOT the DNC affiliated democrats.org blog , which is the official blog of the DNC!

But I guess for some reason you really really don't want this to be true.

[Up2Late]

45. NO. I want it to be accurate, this type of ambiguous proclamation

is the type of thing that gets us (Democrats) in trouble and on the defensive.

It is in no way clear which site that disclaimer is referring to, you are assuming it refers to "Wage Slave Journal," but their is no way that assumption would hold up in court. It no more valid than if I titled a post that said, "Democratic Underground's response to Karl Rove!" Unless it's written by Skinner or one of the other Admins, it's wrong.

We are dealing with some very vial and evil people (Rove and Co.), so we can't afford to leave this kind of "Back door" argument open for attack.

[NYCGirl]

46. The disclaimer is ON Wage Slave Journal. What more proof do you need?

It's VERY clear.

[Up2Late]

52. I responded to your post below, I won't repeat it here. n/t

[NYCGirl]

41. No, it doesn't. That statement is referring to Berney's own site,

"The Wage Slave Journal." That's what site is meant by "this site."

[Up2Late]

50. Well if that is true, he needs to do some editing on his disclaimer

First, it should be a separate paragraph, and

Second, it should be more precise, saying "This site" is too ambiguous. Currently it says:

"The opinions expressed on this site do not reflect the positions of the Democratic National Committee."

Should become:

"The opinions expressed on Wage Slave Journal do not reflect the positions of the Democratic National Committee."

Plus, if what you say is true, why would he have a separate disclaimer at the bottom of the page you refer to? <http://www.wage-slave.org/bio.html>

It reads: "...All contents of the Wage Slave Journal are copyright Jesse Berney except for comments posted by readers and where otherwise noted. The opinions expressed on this site are mine alone."

This is the one, intended or not, that refers to what is written at Wage Slave Journal.

Now you may say, "so what, why a are you getting so technical and legal?"

Because these are the types of mistakes that Karl Rove and Frank Luntz, and the army of lawyers they have at their disposal, use to discredit us (Democrats and the DNC).

[seabeyond]

32. since not dnc, should be sent to dnc

i thought it was too profound, concise, outspoken and right on to be dnc.

love ya dnc

love ya dean

here you go, someone wrote something perfect for everyones talking points. and a thank you

good stuff. thanks for posting

[Capn Sunshine]

42. IT WAS DNC

Jesse Birney is content developer for the OFFICIAL BLOG of the DNC.
He ALSO has a site called "WageSlave Journal".

The latter is NOt affiliated with the DNC, the former IS.

?comprende?

[seabeyond]

48. is this dnc voice?

if dnc, if dean stand by this, cool.

then i am truly impressed and happy. good for them

[MODemocrat]

33. Rove is working this to take away from the DSM

And it's working for them. They'll complain every time someone passes a little gas, call the democrats traitors to get responses, ask for an apology from any of the democrats who bring out the truth about their abuses, and it keeps us so busy retaliating that we don't have time to spend keepng the MEMO and all their other bloody misdeads to the forefront......
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:
Here's to you Carl Rove~~~ :thumbsdown:

[Gothmog]

37. good set of comparisons

This is a good set of comparisons. There are differences between Democrats and repugs and I am happy about these differences.

[BamaBecky]

43. agreed!

[Dr Fate]

47. good stuff- DEMs need to go onTV and say this where EVERYONE can hear it.

The only folks who go to the DNC web site are folks who already know all these things.

[adigal]

49. Very good - nice work.

n/t

[CarolNYC]

53. Nicely done! n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

54. I am there with everything except DHS. Don't care for it, but still agree

that we could strengthen our intelligence and protection agencies.

[Lasher]

56. Great Talking Points

What great talking points for sparring with Republipukes!

[NightOwwl]

57. They should give Senator "Brent" credit for this...

I think his response was better...but this response from the DNC is a thousand times better than asking for Rove to apologize.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1879795

eta: Rove expected a Dem meltdown, and yesterday our dem leaders happily obliged him. He did not expect a comeback like this, which turns everything he said on its head, and magnifies all of their screwups. Little turdblossom is probably sitting in the corner sucking his thumb right abut now.

[JABBS]

58. White House reaction to Rove

FYI -- I have an article at JABBS, at http://jabbs.blogspot.com, that includes the White House reaction to Rove's comments (they don't want an apology, big surprise).

Check out McClellan's Orwellian responses in the transcript that I've included.

Also, the article talks about the hypocritical stance of conservatives. They yell and scream when a Democrat, such as Dick Durbin, says something questionable. But they are silent when Santorum, Sessions and Norquist say things equally questionable.

[go west young man]

60. Right on DNC!

Get that loudmouth back with a bit of his own. If they say something divisive we need to point it out! I'm glad to see people at the DNC getting on the Dean bandwagon and calling it like it is.

[rhett o rick]

61. Be careful, while you are watching Karl, Cheney willbe picking your pocket

[AceAlmighty82]

63. Kick

Wow..Rove was right on something..now that we know..lets do something about it and quit insulting each other and asking for apologies on those insults. I watched The Daily Show last night and Howard Dean was on...he's got his plan for Democrats and he was talking with a purpose. That shows me a good sign for things to come.

[creeksneakers2]

66. Republicans lied about what Durbin, now lie about Rove

Rove didn't mention MoveOn.org in his speech. And MoveOn.org did not advocate giving terrorists therapy. The DNC should point out Rove's lies and the GOP lies about what Rove said.

RW radio used doctored tapes about Durbin. The GOP told complete lies about what Durbin said.

The RW attacks will never stop until the public is convinced that they lie all the time. Its time for Democrats to meet this head on.

[Dr Fate]

67. How is a website a "response?"

Oh I see- we pretend that the Republican owned media is supposed to repeat these talking points FOR US- and then when they dont, the DEMs can say:

"We fought Bush on this-but the media ignored our website- didn't you see the website??"

[manxkat]

68. GET REAL, PEOPLE

Republicans
It's been four years, and Osama bin Laden is still free, even though Bush's CIA chief says he knows where he is.

Of course Goss knows where Osama is -- the patsy Osama is still an agent of the CIA.

Republicans
Do everything in their power to block the 9/11 Commission from doing its work.

Well duh, the neocons don't want to be discovered as the perpetrators of the crime of the century. Read David Ray Griffin's book and wake up.

Democrats
Believe we should have stayed the course in Afghanistan, not allowing the Taliban to resurge, the warlords to take power, and the opium trade to skyrocket.

You Democrats just don't get it. The USA needs to funnel $600 billion of illicit drug money into Wall Street to help keep it propped up. There's also the small tidbit of the Unocal pipeline.

Democrats
Believe that we should be honest with our troops about the reasons we go to war, give them everything they need to be safe, and make sure we go in with an exit plan.

Exit plan? You must be joking. After all the trouble the neocons went to in staging 9/11 and succeeding in that plus the lies that led us into both Afghanistan and Iraq for oil, do you really think there was ever an exit plan? Do you really think the citizens of the USA will have a say in this? Do you think your vote counts? Get real. The US is building permanent military bases in Iraq as a staging area for continued dominance in the Middle East. It's the oil, stupid.

[Karenina]

80. Good one, Manxkat!

Welcome to DU! :toast:

[libertarianseeker]

69. Democrats apologize for telling the truth

Republicans never apologize even when caught in a lie. That's why Joe Sixpack sees the Democrats as weak and waffling and the Republicans as strong, with integrity. I still can't believe that Durbin wimped out...

[Voltaire99]

71. And now for the similarities.

The two parties aren't terribly far apart, actually.

Dems and Rethugs: Believe in an imperial America armed to the teeth.

Dems and Rethugs: Damage our liberties daily with the Patroit Act.

Dems and Rethugs: Perpetuate injustices in the Middle East, placing Israeli interests ahead of US security.

One can go on. One should. It's time to take back the Democratic Party from warrior centrists, who are as bad for the progressive cause as Republicans.

Let us concentrate on reclaiming the party--before another Bush takes office.

[Independent_Liberal]

72. Excellent!

You got that right Rove. There are big differences.

[UrbScotty]

73. To all the Democrats who stand up for us every day:

Gracias.

[DemoMemo]

74. Wrong

I agree with it all, except for the following:

"Democrats
Believe that we should be honest with our troops about the reasons we go to war, give them everything they need to be safe, and make sure we go in with an exit plan."

No, I don't believe there are any good explanations to give our troops about the reasons for the war, except ones that are impeachable offenses. And, I'm fed up with the exit plan talk. THERE ARE NO GOOD EXIT PLANS. Let's stop kidding ourselves about keeping our troops over there in harms way until someone tries to dream one up. There's no morality in continuing a senseless occupation, one that just leads to "kill and be killed."

[Lights_Out]

76. This is pretty much political agenda

It's so easy to look at the bad side of the republicans. I'm not saying that the neocons are any good, but whoever published this needs to look a little closer at ALL the facts rather than looking at a few of them.

[McCamy Taylor]

77. Proper response to Rove is DSM, DSM, DSM, DSM, DSM, DSM

DSM,DSM, DSM, DSM!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You get the point.

[fryguy]

79. THAT is a brilliant and accurate summary

not to mention, wasn't *'s decisive action following 9/11 to sit and read My Pet Goat and then hide?