Was there sabatoge in Iowa?

[Nlighten1]

My other thread got locked so I went digging through the miriad links I read every day and found the original story.

http://www.newsdissector.org/weblog/indy_post.cfm?logID=0CAEFE8B-E0A3-4F38-8F910C08DF602236

SABOTAGE?

But I may be right to focus on the ways the electoral process can be sabotaged. Having made a film (“Counting on Democracy”) about what really happened in Florida in 2000, I may be oversensitive on this point. But consider this email that I received about what the Dean campaign is discovering. I hope this doesn’t drive the good doctor over the edge and make him more paranoid.


THE CHARGE: REPUBLICANS INFILTRATE IOWA CAUCUSES

From a Dean group. My friend Dawn in Iowa told me the same thing - that they were stunned by the number of Republicans changing their registration at the door. It appears that possibly only 55% of the Iowa caucus voters were Democrats trying to cast a legitimate vote. We can expect this cross-over voting in any caucus where it's allowed. My impression is that it's allowed in a great number of the states. So whoever chooses our Democratic nominee, it won't really be Democrats. We have the same thing here as I've discovered when calling Democrats on election day, only to have some of them nastily and gloatingly tell me they're Republicans and have already voted - for Bush. Margie.

Another voice:

GOP crossover 45% in Iowa caucus*
I don't watch TV. My friend Cathy in Kansas is a huge CSPAN fan and reported the following this morning (comments edited). She called CSPAN complaining about all the Iowa shenanigans.

[KittyWampus]

1. Why Did All Those High Level GOP Operatives Go To Iowa Beforehand?

:think:

[Nlighten1]

7. I'm not aware of this...link?

Honestly, I haven't been keeping up with this whole process because I think any of our candidates, except LIEberman and Gep, are going to kick the shit out of *.

The idea that there were Republican operatives meddling with the vote in Iowa, if true, needs to be discussed.

[progressivebydesign]

27. Can someone find that link?

There were GOP people all over Iowa. It was common knowledge. I don't have a link... someone will get that for you, I'm sure.

[JoblessRecovery]

13. The other possibility

is that there were Independents and Republicans that felt so strongly that they didn't want another 4 years of bush that they changed their party affiliation to Democratic.

I sincerely doubt the conspiracy angle. I know of several people personally that voted for bush that do not want to see him reelected.

I meant to post this at the bottom of the thread.

[ISUGRADIA]

32. To get a little publicity and try to steal some of the

limelight from the Democrats. I certainly do not think it was for some scheme to infiltrate Democratic caucuses.

[mzmolly]

2. Yes their was. Combine this with the bigoted push polling and

something was rotten in Iowa.

Welcome BTW! :toast:

[jenk]

3. yes, those evil 70 year old GOP granny's

they stormed the caucuses!

get over it, Dean lost!!!

to participate in a caucus you have to be a pretty loyal dem, a lot of people showed up wearing the pins or shirts of there candidate, you've got to be a true dem just to sit around in somebodys home for 2 hours as the caucus runs its course. GOP infiltration in just not possible, why would they waste there time? I think 50+ year old republicans have better things to do.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

4. They Just Need Practice...

Which they will get plenty of....

[Nlighten1]

5. Ah yes..

get over it...I'm sorry I don't join in lockstep with that mentality...I'm not a Dean supporter per se...I'm a Democrat and I want answers...

[jenk]

6. answers to questions that don't exist

c'mon, there were absolutely no complaints at the caucuses, everything went smoothly. Most of the population of that state is older, many people are out in remote rural areas. As if they're going to storm the democratic caucus, c'mon. We would've heard a thousand complaints already.

[Nlighten1]

11. Maybe they don't exist in your world...

I could be wrong but you strike me as a partisian Edwards supporter so maybe this conversation isn't for you. Some people HAVE raised the question and , being the curious person I am, I have begun to look into it.

Maybe your time is better spent elsewhere...

[BeatleBoot]

8. Coool Pic!

Don't want to pry, but who is with him?

I understand if you don't want to answer!

[jenk]

30. that's john edwards, elizabeth, and john's brother in law Jim

[Democrats unite]

9. Yep and some finger pointing is right a Kerry where it should be.

eom

[Nlighten1]

12. ?

Could you explain this further please?

[pnziii]

10. I believe it.

I think the republicans are more afaid of Dean than the other candidates.

You can listen all you want to them saying they want Dean as the Dem candidate, but that's the lie. If they really wanted Dean because they thought he would be easy to beat then the republicans would have said nothing when Dean was leading in the polls or even said he was the one they feared the most. That would have propelled Dean even more and made the so called Bush victory easier. Basically you don't tell people to nominate someone because you can beat him.
I even saw some one post here that Kerry was a better choice because Rush Limbaugh said Kerry could beat Bush. When did Democrats start listening to what Rush has to say.

Kerry and Lieberman are career politicians and they have backed bush and the repubs in their voting record (check for yourself)
The Repubs are more afaid of an outsider like Dean than they let on.

[pnziii]

14. It also came from the DNC

There were a lot of acusations against Dean for bringing in people to register to vote. Gephart started it and Kerry followed suit. All they could do is say "I've heard rumors" yet the news covered it for 2 days and even people they interviewed in Iowa started to believ it. Dean is an outsider and the DNC put Dean in his place with false acusations. It was all the negative ads against Dean that hurt his showing.

[madrchsod]

15. there may have been problems in the cities but

in the small towns across Iowa-no way. these people are demo`s or republicans all their lives.everyone knows who is who out there in the corn and bean fields. i`ve had relation out there since the late 1800`s and they haven`t changed parties in all that time.so if a republican showed up well they may not get their vote counted
time to get over it and move along,iowa is one state,there`s 49 more...

[Melinda]

16. Denial - it's not just a river in Egypt

Every open primary is going to see cross-over voting - it's now standard GOP operating practice.

This:

http://www.goodbyecynthia.com/news/crossover.htm

http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/100902/opi_20021009011.shtml

is what my now ex-husband was part of in 2002.

And here's a glimpse into what we can expect very soon:

http://www.thestate.com/mld/thestate/7732156.htm

[janx]

22. I suspect that the robo phone bank activity might me

that of the right wing.

[progressivebydesign]

26. Thanks for posting that info...

I've been trying to tell people this is RAMPANT in the past few years. I can't believe what some people will do to keep the GOP in power. Sad.. Iowa is ripe for corruption.. that system is flawed with no checks and balances. The primaries should be all votes. All on the same day. Have a nice long primary campaign season, then vote. Done.

[buckeye1]

17. Sabotage?

Why would you ask? "2 flat tires,no spare" was a weak third.

Its not like a republican won.

[Bluzmann57]

18. As an Iowan who caucused

I am going to say a few words. First of all, I do not like my great state slandered like this by all these paranoid conspiracy theory assholes. When I went, I was registered as an INDEPENDENT, as were all of the people I chatted with in line. And the line was long. NOT ONE person in my precint changed their registration from Republican to Democrat. Not one. So that is probably what the author was talking about. All the independent, think for ourselves Iowa people who had to change our registrations over to Democrat in order to participate. And why in the hell would the republican party want John Kerry to win? He may be a nightmare for bushco, as he has actually seen combat, etc., all of which has been documented right here in DU. It actually seemed as if the Dean people were trying to beat the system to a lot of us there. So if you are going to attack my state and the expression of Democracy that the caucuses represent, please make sure you have your facts straight first.

[madrchsod]

19. opps- forgot about

independents, all my relation in northwestern iowa are pretty dam independent and sure don`t like being told what to think...

[progressivebydesign]

25. The GOP wants Kerry...

THere are more than a few republican talking heads bellowing about a bombshell they have to hurt Kerry's campaign. Now. if the GOP feels that they have something that will stop a candidate in their tracks once they get the nomination, something that would make Bush the winner (in their feeble little minds), then it would make sense to help that candidate win the caucus, etc. We have to think like Republicans sometimes (then take a long shower). If the word is out that they have something on Kerry (which is probably bullshit), then that would be their M.O. Hell, my father-in-law is as right wing as they come.. he's 70 something and has been a registered Democrat for years. He does it so he can vote for what he's been led to believe is the candidate less likely to beat his republican hero. He says he knows tons of other guys who do that... it's like a big joke to them to vote in our primaries and screw things up.

Something went wrong in Iowa. Push polling, negative flyers, whisper campaigns, and yes.. crossover voting.

[emulatorloo]

20. Nobody's Hair or Clothes was nice enough for a Republican at my caucus

Anecdotal, I know. I suppose the GOP could have paid for makeovers to make them look like Dowdy Democrats.

Am I on to something for a New Reality Show?????

Anyway I know the Republicans in my neighborhood and they definately werent there.

[anti-NAFTA]

21. I think there WAS sabotage, but

I don't think the GOP had anything to do with it. At the very least is just pure media manipulation to get Kerry on top (AOL Time Warner is one of Kerry's biggest contributors I think), and at the worst there were some slimy tactics.

It disgusts me how the least corporate-owned candidate (Gephardt) got destroyed, and, quite frankly, I don't buy it.

[arewethereyet]

23. well I hope so, politics couuldn't stand the shock of a lack of it

there are no Marquis of Queensbury rules here folks, all's fair, the only question is will it work ?

[IowaBiker]

24. Not in my caucus.

Solid salt-of-the-earth Iowa Dems.

--Brian

[Gin]

29. I am happy the whole country is not ivolved with the caucus system

I like the idea of voting privately...of course..if this state (VA)goes to Computerized voting...all bets are off.

[Spiderm0n]

28. Republicans would love to see Dean on the ticket!

[ISUGRADIA]

31. Where's the proof? I was there

1) The list provided to each precinct by the Iowa Democratic Party was printed from registrations as of mid September to late October from party people I spoke to. The lists were not up to date. So any one signing up in anticipation of the caucuses as a Democrat or updating their address from an old one after, let's say November 1st were NOT ON THE LIST. They would have to sign up as "new Democrats." So there were a lot of people who were registered Dems who had to re-register at the caucus.

2) How would this person know 45% were Republicans unless each told her that? There was only a list of registered Dems at each precinct, not a list of all voters with their current parties.

[KaraokeKarlton]

33. There's some dirty tricks going on against Dean again, in NH this time

Between condfederate flag stickers being put on cars of his supporters and staff and someone making early morning and late night robo-calls pretending to be from the Dean campaign (it is NOT the Dean campaign doing them!) it's clear that there is dirty sabotage in play.