A race between Kerry and Edwards

[jeter]

Okay imagine that Kerry wins NH and Clark places third or fourth. That would all but destroy Dean's and Clark's candidacy's.

Now imagine that Edwards does well there. Finishing a strong third. Then goes out and wins the South Carolina and Missouri primaries on Feb 2.

The race at that points becomes Kerry vs. Edwards.

Which candidate will you support.

(I know this is all a hypothetical. But humor me).

[Zynx]

1. I can't stand John Kerry and I like Edwards.

[Rowdyboy]

2. Like them both but Edwards

could actually win

[robsul82]

3. If Dean's a close second...

...it won't destroy his candidacy. For a guy who was up 15 points three days ago and now it's halved with a couple days to go, Kerry could look very badly by winning by even 2%.

EDIT: Oh yeah, answering the question. Edwards, Kerry's two-faced mushmouthed have-my-cake-and-eat-it-too kinda person.

Later.

RJS

[JohnKleeb]

4. Kerry but I wouldnt care

Edwards has slowly became my number 2 candiate.

[jeter]

6. Hey John, what happened to Kucinich?

[JohnKleeb]

16. its a long story

I support them both equally now. Kerry despite IWR is close fit to my views and Iowa. I like Edwards too, hes great. ABB though in the end.

[LSdemocrat]

5. After Dean, Edwards is my next favorite

[spooky3]

7. I don't think Clark in 3/4 will end his candidacy. It's only one state.

If he did poorly in SC/MO and the other states that day, that would end it. But I think he'll do well in some of those states.

[mmonk]

8. False premise on such early demises (Clark, Dean)

but I would go Kerry. Best chance for any rebuttal concerning the bush foreign policy which, believe it or not, is an important issue.

[krkaufman]

44. Barring Clark POTUS, Kerry is not the only way

Should Clark not get the nod, Kerry as the nominee is NOT the only way to counter the defense issue. Clark or Kerry -- or some other defense expert TBD -- as VP would help a strong nominee in the swing states.

Also, bad assumptions as basis of question/poll. Clark results in NH aren't important, to some degree. They don't expect 1st or 2nd. However, a finish behind Senator Joe (5th or worse) might not be so good.

[hellhathnofury]

9. I'll vote for Lieberman before I vote for Kerry.

[question everything]

15. I think that Lieberman will be the next to drop... after N.H. n/t

[One Taste]

10. Edwards

[jenk]

11. Edwards of course, though Kerry is my 2nd and I respect him very much

[robsul82]

14. Heheh...

Edwards was such a stoner back in college, I'll bet you anything. That's a part of my liking Edwards - because it's obvious the dude spent college high. That has to rank high on the "Would I Have a Beer/Toke Up with This Candidate?" scale. :)

Later.

RJS

[jenk]

17. hey he studied hard, but i don't doubt he partied harder : )

[robsul82]

24. If he'd just come out one day...

...and say, "Hell, I drank, I smoked, I toked, and look at YOUR future First Lady I nabbed after ALL that, baby! Look at these pictures, for Christ's sake!" And then show all the college pictures AP has used for his sig lines, Dean's youth vote would probably go all to Hell. Although Dean looked like a stoner too, heh.

Dean/Edwards - We Were Stoners Once...And Young.

Later.

RJS

[JohnKleeb]

18. vice versa here jenk

Edwards is a great speaker, I love how he speaks of class struggle. Great man, I would be delighted to have him as president, I just prefer Kerry, but Edwards is great too, hes the big time comeback kid.

[aldian159]

49. He looks like Aston Kutcher

Dude, where's my car?

typo, sorry everyone

[spooky3]

53. maybe that's why Ashton supports him! (it's true)

[JohnKleeb]

62. I seen one picture of a young Edwards

Looks exactly like Kutchner. If it gets down to Kerry-Edwards, then Kerry but I like Edwards too.

[Kal Belgarion]

12. Edwards

I think he's more electable, and I have an immense amount of respect for politicians who keep their campaigns positive.

[Qutzupalotl]

13. Edwards is amazing.

Hats off to you Edwards supporters out there. You sure can pick a winner. I saw him today and he was so good it brought a tear to my eye. He won't take New Hampshire (neither will my guy), but Edwards and Clark are going to kick butt all across the south and midwest.

If they can put their differences aside--and they are not that many--and run together, we will have 16 years of positive leadership to look forward to!

[jenk]

20. it would be a great ticket

Edwards/Clark or Clark/Edwards, however it turns out, it would be like a Robert Redford/Tom Cruise ticket, how can you go wrong?!?!?

[jsw_81]

40. Cute pic

Edwards looks like the guy on that 70's show.

[jenk]

57. lol

everybody in that pic looks like someone from that 70's show, Edwards is foreman, elizabeth is jackie, edwards brother in law is hyde

[Abigail147]

59. Excuse me, but

has Edwards served even one full term in the Senate? His experience is ? Are we voting on looks, charisma? That is always the criterion when we talk Edwards.

[tryanhas]

66. And John Kerry is a member of Skull and Bones, so what is your point?

I would rather vote for someone with less experience (Edwards) over someone who is connected, no, no, ENTRENCHED, in the same secret society agenda as George W. Bush (Kerry)!

[mmonk]

21. How are they compatible

except on a few issues of helping people?

[spooky3]

25. pro-choice, anti-discrimination, support the middle class...

and many more.

[mmonk]

30. true on some core issues

though I'm still not sure on Edwards' stand on civil unions (maybe you could shed light on that one) but how do they get around the foreign policy issue which might be difficult for Clark? Clark says it was not necessary and was unrelated to security.

[spooky3]

33. JE on gay marriage--DJtj posted this on another thread

http://www.votebyissue.org/primary/issue.asp?i=36

"I believe in equal rights for all, including the rights of gays and lesbians. Gays and lesbians should have the same freedoms and the same responsibilities as all Americans, and deserve to be treated with the equal respect.

I support legislation to end discrimination in employment against gays and lesbians and to punish hate crimes based on sexual orientation.

I also support partnership benefits for gays and lesbians in committed, long-term relationships.

While I personally do not support gay marriage, different states will address this in different ways, and I oppose an amendment to the United States Constitution in response to the recent Massachusetts state Supreme Court decision."

http://www.winwithedwards.com

Re: foreign policy, you'd have to ask them. If I were the candidate I might say: "we disagree on some aspects of Iraq. But we agree that, now, we must do the following things..." I don't know that much about Clark's position about how we extract ourselves at this point but my sense is that it is pretty similar to JE's, who voted against the $87b because there was no good exit plan, * refused to share authority with France/Germany etc., * failure to get international community involved.

[mmonk]

36. Thanks for your response

[mmonk]

37. One more question spooky

Would Edwards be inclined to consider letters from the PNAC in his foreign policy decision making and feel pressure because he didn't want to appear soft on defense? I ask this earnestly, because it is important to me concerning the answer to this question.

[spooky3]

51. Hmm, mmonk, I honestly don't know. I don't recall that

he speaks about that on the website and I haven't heard him talk about it in the stump speeches I have seen. You may want to search his site, johnedwards2004.com. And if it's not there, I wonder if you went to his website and sent an email through "contact me" if you would get a direct answer from him or his staff.

Maybe someone who has been watching him a lot longer than I have, such as AP, Beaconess, Djtj, Purity of Essence, MrB and others, would know.

[Renew Deal]

19. Damn, That's a beat down.

[question everything]

22. I did not have any preferences until last Sunday

when I saw Edwards on Meet the Press and was impressed by his clear positions and the way he articulated them.

(Did not have a preference since I felt that by the time we, in Minnesota, got to caucus the race would be over).

In one of the news shows today - cannot recall which - someone pointed to Edwards youth. He is 50, older than JFK and older than Clinton when both took office.

[spooky3]

27. that was Wolfie, chiding JE for being lucky with looking so young

[sandnsea]

23. The anti-Kerry vote

Seen it around here for months. This too shall pass.

[Renew Deal]

31. I ran one of these polls the other day.

It was really close.

[IndianaGreen]

32. It is also the anti-Skull & Bones vote

this will not pass!

[Kathleen04]

26. Edwards!

I like that John Edwards. :)

[AlFrankenFan]

28. Edwards!

But it's a hard choice, cause Kerry's a good guy.

[LiberalBushFan]

29. Wow, not good for Kerry

It looks like 99% of those who aren't already Kerry supporters would choose Edwards.

[UTUSN]

34. It's the Invisible Elephant in the Room

First there were NINE people in the room, and despite ONE was clearly Shrub's nemesis, EVERYBODY had to be treated EQUALLY, so this whole ridiculous process went on FOREVER. We need some ridiculously SIMPLE reforms to our beloved Constitution, such as OBLITERATION of the Electoral College. Then, beyond the Constitution, REGIONAL PRIMARIES. Thank you, thank you very much.

[jsw_81]

39. This poll is hardly scientific

Remember, this is a forum where roughly fifteen percent support Kucinich (who's at one or two percent nationally), and a large majority support Clark.

[PurityOfEssence]

35. This has got to be a first here...

Thanks everyone for keeping an open mind.

Edwards can help us put this world back together.

Things are going to happen this year in ways nobody can predict; this will be one of the most eventful periods in our lives, so keep your wits about you and maybe all won't be darkness after all.

[jsw_81]

38. Kerry

I'm much more impressed by Senator Kerry. He has the credentials, the experience, and the money to beat Bush. Senator Edwards simply does not. I just don't feel comfortable putting a freshman senator like Edwards up against a sitting (albeit unelected) president during wartime. That's a recipe for Democratic disaster and four more years of Bush. His "I'm the son of a mill worker" line will only go so far, and it won't help one bit when he is questioned about foreign policy during the debates. And I think it's highly unlikely that Edwards would even be able to carry North Carolina or any other Southern state. A Kerry/Graham ticket, however, could deliver Florida.

Edwards is young and will have his chance later on; maybe he'll be vice president or attorney general under Kerry.

[Melodybe]

41. Edwards is 50, his just looks really good for his age

If you think that it is highly unlikely for Edwards to win a southern state you are not on the same planet as me. I live in MS and the 2 candidates that are the most liked here are Dean and Edwards (by Repubs and Dems alike). Kerry is hated here. Why I don't know but if people know who he is they don't like him. Repugs can't say his name without cursing.

sad but true

[jsw_81]

47. Mississippi?

If you think that ANY Democrat has a chance of winning Mississippi in November, you need to retake political science 101. We have zero chance in Mississippi.

[sleipnir]

42. Hold my nose and vote for, ugh, Edwards....

[AP]

43. Clark people will vote for Edwards over Kerry. If it were...

...Clark v Edwards, Kerry people would vote for Edwards to keep Clark down. It's because Kerry and Clark see each other as going after the same voter. The question is, can Edwards figure out a way to play these groups off one antother so that he can make the outside move? And can he do it in a way that doesn't alienate either?

[kodi]

45. instead, he might try articulating the best of all his vision for america

nah, too simple for most political junkies.

but just right for the rest of us.

both clark and kerry have too much excess verbal baggage in their presentation style. neither of them can articulate in a few sentences the gist for a whole array of topics as edwards has been doing recently.

edwards has been able to articulate a complete framework for his message and it is one that is both simple and expansive.

come time to make a decision, folks are not going to remember the subtle nuances of clark's and kerry's messages.

we will remember more what and how edwards is presenting himself and his ideas.

that's just the way we are.

breath deeply, that is the smell of the great unwashed we call the american voting public. it is the way we operate. its the land where one can even get rich selling pet rocks.

[AP]

54. There are nuances in Edwards's speeches ... and they're MORE powerful.

Think about that question at the AZ debate about race. All the other white candidates tried to tell us how they were good on race because they knew black people at various points in their lives -- that they worked or fought alongside black people. Basically they said that their path crossed the path of a black man once and and that's how they could empathize with the plight of racial minorities in America. Kerry talked about Vietnam. I think Dean talked about being a FL ranch hand while on summer vacation. Lieberman talked about marching for civil rights. I think Gep, whose district is 99.5% white (or something like that) said something about working with unions.

Well, Edwards, who grew up in a racially diverse community (there are pictures of him playing high school basketball and football with teammates who are white and black) told a story about how when he was growing up, his town had no Latinos. 35 years later, the town is over half Latino. He said that those people are going to that town today for the same reason his father moved there years ago -- for better economic opportunities for their families. He said that he is fighting for people to have the same opportunities that his father fought for for him.

This is a simple story, but it is powerful. Unlike the other candidates, Edwards didn't tell a story about how his path crossed the path of a person who was a racial minority, and that that somehow created empathy. Although Edwards definitely has lived and gone to school side-by-side with African Americans, Edwards told a story about NOT crossing the path -- he said he didn't know any of these new Latino immigrants growing up. He was saying they never walked that spatial-temporal path. But what he was saying is that you don't need to do this to understand the common hopes and dreams of people of all races and national origins. He said that we all walk that path at the same time.

It was a brilliant story, way more subtle than what the other candidates say. And it's way more powerful.

[AnnitaR]

46. I refuse to vote on this one!

A third place finish for Clark will NOT destroy his candidacy!

[Piperay]

48. Edwards for sure

if Clark wasn't running Edwards would be my pick, I can be satisfied with Kerry but still have some reservations.

[JohnLocke]

50. kick

[drfemoe]

52. NH is not going to destroy anyone . eom .

[Walt Starr]

55. I held my nose on this one

but I had to go with edwards on the "electability" thing. Edwards, I believe" would have the possibility of pulling out a squeaker.

I cannot say I hold the same opinion about Kerry.

[Cuban_Liberal]

56. WOWEE!

GO, Sen. Edwards! :thumbsup::bounce:

[edzontar]

58. Edwards

A much better campaigner.

I like his economic populism especially compared to Kerry's DLC waffling.

[Poseidon]

60. Kerry

but Edwards is up there.

[goobergunch]

61. I would remain neutral (n/t)

[AntiCoup2K4]

63. Edwards

He's still DLC, but at least he's not advised by PNAC or in any secret societies with the Bush Criminal Empire.

I'm not convinced a freshman senator would be able to beat the Idiot's media machine, but at least I could vote for him if it came down to it.

Hopefully it won't, and the strongest and most electable candidate will be the nominee.

(That would be Howard Dean, of course.)

[0007]

64. That would be a hard one

I could swing either way. At the moment I lean toward Edwards.

[VOX]

65. Edwards -- he can beat *, and Kerry cannot...

IMO, Kerry would not have a very broad appeal in the general election. He would do well in the Northeast, and maybe pick up a few West Coast votes, but that would be it.

Edwards would wow 'em. Remember, Edwards is the candidate that the RNC feared most early on.

[TopesJunkie]

67. This is a no brainer --

Edwards can win. Kerry can't.