I wrote my Senator about Kerry's DSM letter and got a non-sequitor back

[LittleClarkie]

Kohl sent me a letter about Durbin and his comments about Gitmo. What the hell. I'm trying to decide if I want to try again to contact him, or just say fuck it. Maybe I got put in the wrong mass mailing pile.

It's not like he's exactly the action half of our Senatorial duo, you know? He's just a rich guy who seems to be able to control the local media enough so that items that would embarrass him don't appear (or maybe the corporate media just doesn't want to annoy the big guy.) Maybe he doesn't give a shit either way. Maybe I'd have better luck with Feingold.

But damn it, I'd never called him before for anything. There's something pathetic about getting a letter back that has nothing to do with what you contacted a person for.

Le sigh.

[iconoclastic cat]

1. Hit him again.

Call him on that crap.

[benddem]

2. It happens to me all the time

one time I wrote a letter about taxes or something and got a letter back about how Clinton was a scum bag. When I lived in WI I told the rep...not to bother writing back and wasting secretarial time. BTW have you ever heard that the reason that Tommy Thompson's womanizing wasn't public info cause the Republicans and Dems made a deal We won't publicize Kohl's sexual identity if you don't talk about Thompson?

[flpoljunkie]

3. I do believe you might have hit a sore spot with Kohl. Excellent!

[msongs]

4. kerry is certainly no john conyers n/t

[LittleClarkie]

5. And an apple is not a banana

What the hell does that have to do with anything?!

[Dr Fate]

8. Conyers REALLY went after it instead of just throwing bones to the base.

Face it- Kerry did what he did for show- so he can point to it when he gets ready to ask for support from the base.

"I fought Bush on the DSM- dont you remember reading that website and watching me on CSPAN? Now, about that check..."

If he was serious about persuing the DSM, he woould have sent an email about it like he does with every single other issue.

If he REALLY wanted signatures, he would have taken his appeal on television and encouraged viewers to contact their Senators. As it is, he did the bare mimimum- only Liberal internet people even KNOW that Kerry "wrote a letter."

[LittleClarkie]

10. To what end?

Most people don't even KNOW Conyers, let alone caring about his hearings. He fights on in obscurity.

Kerry, on the other hand, has recognition, but still with as much furvor as was seen in the base when he talked about DSM to a small Mass. newspaper, only the base actually gives a shit.

To me, it's a both/and, not an either/or. Both men did something, each in their own way.

You might say that Kerry should be trying to publicize DSM more. Well, take the example of an issue where Kerry is really trying to publicize something, ie the Kids First Act. How much actual attention is he getting for his signature issue. Some local noise, that's about it.

I'm not sure how the DSM letter is supposed to help Kerry politically when most of his fellow Senators acted as if it were radioactive. Doesn't sound politically advantageous to me.

But my thread pertained to saying that I got a stupid letter from Kohl. Kerry not being Conyers has nothing to do with the fact that one of my Senators is something of an clown. It seemed like a non sequitor to me, much like my letter from Kohl. Nevermind what you think of Kerry, why would Kohl give me the two step.

By the way, if Kerry doing what he did was political, what was Dean's lack of a response? Was that also political? Kerry's response was at least A RESPONSE. It was more than we got from most.

[Dr Fate]

11. I don't give a FUCK about what is "politically advantageous" to John Kerry.

Whatever happened to DOING THE RIGHT THING????

You cant see the difference between going on TV and talking about the smoking gun Iraq war LIES and some vanilla children's bill? PLEASE!!!

At least you finally admit what I've known from day one. It's about what the strategists who lost the last 3 elections deem as "politically advantageous."

I disagree with you and the "strategists" who lost the last 3 elections- telling the truth about Bush IS "politically advantageous"- but you have to have the guts to do it before you make it work.

Dean? I've been equally critical of him as well. This is not about the primaries for me- it's about the "OLD NEWS" we call the Iraq War.

The DSM is "old news" and "politically disadvantageous" to Kerry & the rest- just like Bush/media told us.

[LittleClarkie]

13. I don't give a fuck about what is politically advantageous

to Kerry either. YOU are the one who put that frame on his actions, not me. I was pointing out that what he has done so far was not done for his advantage as you claim. He was doing the right thing. That's what it looks like when a wonk does his thing. It ain't flash but there you have it.

And what I said had nothing to do with the damn children's bill. That was just an example for you to see what happens when he's trying to publicize something. Bupkus, that's what happens.

By the way, I admit nothing. You misunderstand me. I refute that you think Kerry is doing what he's doing because it's politically advantageous. Politically advantageous would have been to not mention a fucking thing about DSM. Why do you think Clinton is pretending he doesn't even know what it is. If you want to see someone who makes those kinds of calcuations, look at Bill. And what is he doing? Ignoring DSM. So what do you think the politically advantageous move probably is. That's right. Not to even have mentioned it. Kerry did something. Why the fuck are you on his back for it. God forbid. He would have been better off doing nothing. Fuck it. What does it matter. He does something and he's shit, he does nothing and he's shit. I'm not sure why he even bothers. Whatever he does will and almost always is misunderstood.

He asked a committee to do it's fucking job. I thought that was something, even if you didn't. It was a damn good point. And now we know who to bug the shit out of. Sen. Roberts that's who.

Now, I was talking about my Senator and how he was too chickenshit to sign Kerry's letter, and in fact wouldn't answer me as to why. THAT is what I was posting about. Not about whether or not Kerry did what he did for political reasons.

He did something. And I'm trying to support that something. Either get on the fucking bus and contact your Senator or get of our backs.

[MH1]

18. The POINT was, it was NOT, and he did it ANYWAY.

I went and re-read this series of posts and I just can't figure out what you are frothing about.

Kerry needed signatures from Senators. He went through a normal Senate process like is normally done to get bill co-sponsors, etc. Did he miss an opportunity to get some pressure on senators from his email list? Maybe, but I would attribute that to not yet recognizing all the uses of new media yet, rather than any desire to hide what he was doing. But personally, I don't think he would've gotten much from the email list, because most people - even those on an email list like Kerry's - just aren't that wonkish and don't have a clue about DSM or why it's important.

In any case, I sure wish your ire was directed at the 33 other Democratic Senators that didn't sign the letter, rather than the guy who was trying to get something done.

For ref, those 33 names:

Akaka (D-HI)
Baucus (D-MT)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Clinton (D-NY)
Conrad (D-ND)
Dayton (D-MN)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Feingold (D-WI)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Inouye (D-HI)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Obama (D-IL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Salazar (D-CO)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wyden (D-OR)

[Dr Fate]

25. Not a good excuse- it would have taken 20 minutes to send an email

If he is serious about getting those Seantors to sign, then he needs to promote that idea to more voters than just the internet community.

[Lecky]

32. Damn

Hypercritical much?

[Dr Fate]

35. Tell me what is incorrect about what I said.

Is this a discussion site or a hero worship site?

[politicasista]

27. You need to stop elevating Conyers while trashing Kerry

With attitudes like that, such as eating our own, that's why we will continue to lose elections.

You should be thanking Kerry for being one of the most visible Dem senators out there, but instead you complain that he is doing everything for himself. I love Conyers. He is my hero too, but he has been doing investigating for years. You should stop attacking good Dems who are doing good things. Ask your senators to why they haven't join in and sign. If so, good, but if not, your ranting should be directed at them and *.

[Dr Fate]

30. Tell me somthing I've said that is incorrect.

I've contacted my Senators, thanx.

I'm not "attacking"- I'm telling it the way I see it: the top DEMs were never serious about exposing the DSM- they had to give it lip service to keep the base happy, then they dropped it.

I'm not elevating Conyers- I'd much rather see "star" Democrats talking about the DSM- that would get the word out more.

[zulchzulu]

19. Why bash Kerry? What is wrong with you? Really?

I just don't get people who bash someone who has been on our side for over 35+ years.

Do some homework before you spew stupid shit about Kerry out your blowhole.

[politicasista]

24. Amen zulchzulu

I too am sick of people comparing Conyers to Kerry. They are both doing good things. :yourock:

[Dr Fate]

26. No one knows about the DSM. No one talks about it.

And Kerry writing letters is not good enough.

I'll keeping pointing out what I see see as bead strategy.

[politicasista]

28. Why don't you apply for a job at Kerry's Senate office?

Can't you e-mail him?

[Dr Fate]

29. He doesnt need me-He could get his signatures if he was serious....

...as I said, you have to talk about it first- a story on a website is the bare minimum...

This is not rocket science- Kerry has taken out ads and organized email campaigns before.

[LittleClarkie]

33. Could you do it on your own damn thread then

This one was about Kohl being a chickenshit before you hijacked it to rant about Kerry.

[Dr Fate]

34. It is about Kerry's campaign to get signatures as well.

Kohl knows he can blow off Kerry and you- because he knows no one has heard of the DSM or Kerry's campaign to gather signatures.

[Vektor]

37. Please stop hijacking this thread with a Kerry bashing rant.

The OP is talking about contacting her Senator about DSM and getting a form letter back about a totally different subject. It wasn't even about John Kerry.

It's totally uncalled for to rant and curse about Kerry when that isn't even what the discussion is about.

[Dr Fate]

39. Tell me what is incorrect about my observation concerning this subject.

Kohl knows he can blow off the LC & Kerry, because he knows no one has even heard of the DSM or Kerry's campaign to get signatures.

Pointing out how Kerry's leter writing campaign is ineffective & the bare minimum is not bashing- and its on topic.

[Vektor]

48. It has nothing to do with whether you are right, wrong, or...

...justified in your opinion. Which is just what it is. An opinion. And that's fine. What is "wrong" is the way you disrupted an unrelated thread to spread discord about John Kerry. You can think what you want, but it does seem you were reaching just a bit in slamming Kerry in response to a poster's thread about her poor response from Kohl. It isn't about Kerry, no matter how hard one might try to make it so just for the sake of rabble rousing. This particular thread is between the OP and her Senator, essentially. She wrote him a letter, he sent her back an unrelated form letter. That's all. If she wrote to KERRY and got that treatment, and wrote a thread about it, then yes, your rant might have had a place on that thread.

You have a right to your opinion, but it's NOT right to force it into a thread about something else just to insult someone you don't agree with.

[LittleClarkie]

44. What it's NOT about is whether Kerry is Conyers

or I'm you. Or you're me. Or we are all together. Coocoocajoob.

What was the point of "Kerry is not Conyers."

My point is my Senator is fucking useless. And your point about him being able to blow me off is bullshit because he damn well knew I knew about the DSM letter, and yet he couldn't even be bothered to SEND ME A LETTER THAT EVEN PERTAINED TO THE SUBJECT! That was my point. His non sequitor.

And the tangent was another non sequitor. Kerry is not Conyers. No shit. Do tell. Kerry does what he does. Conyers does what he does. I honor them both for doing something.

UNLIKE MY SENATOR.

[Dr Fate]

45. You are right. Kerry is not Conyers. That was never my point.

My point is that Conyers was serious about promoting the issue- he did everything he could do to get it on TV and his hearings gave somthing to the cameras & gave folks somthing to talk about. Too bad all the top Democrats basically refused to promote those hearings or even mention them.

It's not about Conyers vs. Kerry- its about doing everything you can to promote an issue the base cares about vs. writing a letter that is easily ignored.

[blm]

38. Horseshit, Doc....Kerry did what the SENATE needs to do to move the

action further.

You want to blame Kerry for pushing the proper action to continue the investigation and keep shut about every damn Senator who chose to AVOID the investigation COMPLETELY?????

That's horseshit and your assessment of Kerry is horseshit.

NO OTHER LAWMAKER has stuck his neck out for more unpopular investigations than Kerry. When you pull crap talking points out like Kerry only does that for political gain, it's DEMONSTRABLY FALSE and reeks of the same BS that the GOP pushes.

You shouldn't do that. It lends credence to every damn talking point the GOP has planted against Kerry for over 30 years to DIMINISH the import of his efforts.

What did Kerry gain politically for all his efforts over the years...a big fat FUCKING TARGET ON HIS BACK AND THE BACKS OF HIS FAMILY.

I call HORSESHIT.

[Dr Fate]

40. Kohl knows no one has ever heard of the DSM or Kerry's letter writing,

And that is why he can easily blow off LC and Kerry.

My main point is that Kerry is doing the bare minimum- he has organized e-mail campaigns for every issue and discussed every issue on TV- except for the DSM. COncerning the DSM, he wrote a letter and said somthing about it on CSAPN.

I'm not keeping shut about other Top Democrats, BTW. Hillary, Reid, Dean etc are doing the bare minimum too.

Call me a Republican all you want, but Kerry has done the bare minimum- he wrote a letter and mentioned it on CSPAN. That is not how you promote an issue if you are serious about it.

[blm]

47. Because the Senate already has further investigation on the agenda, and

Kerry is pushing them to COMPLETE a task they had already pledged to do and especially WITH the DSM memos as key evidence.

It's purely an inside the senate issue at this point. The best we can do is provide outside pressure, not attack the one senator making positive moves.

[LittleClarkie]

43. It's a crap talking point especially

because by Fate's own admission, nobody knows about it. Oh yeah, Kerry's an idiot. He's doing something for political gain that NOBODY KNOWS ABOUT.

You know, when folks do things for political gain, like say Bill and Hillary, you damn well know that they're doing it.

There is no bare minimum. There is do, or do not. He did. To do nothing, as Kohl did, to ignore because no one will know, THAT is the politically advantageous path. Kerry didn't take that path. He did something.

Now help me let the Senators know that we damn well know about the letter and that we damn well know they didn't sign it.

See Fate, that's what bugs me. Somebody does something, and because it ISN'T what you're looking for, you get a case of the "yeah, buts" saying "Yeah, but why didn't he do this."

Can we credit the actions taken without continueously pointing out what it ain't? I credit Conyers, even though nobody knows what he did either.

AND CONYERS THOUGHT WHAT KERRY DID WAS INDEED SOMETHING. ARE YOU TELLING ME THE MAIN MAN HIMSELF DOESN'T KNOW WHAT THE FUCK HE'S TALKING ABOUT IN GIVING KERRY A PROP?

Conyers didn't seem to think it was useless. Why do you?

[Dr Fate]

46. Kerry wrote a letter and said somthing on CSPAN...What next?

...if you think that is the best way to promote this issue, then we will just have to disagree. The issue is essentially dead, so apparently "the letter" did not do much.

If this was Kerry or Gore was faking a war, we can all rest assure that top Republicans would be doing more to make folks aware than writing a letter or going on CSPAN- whether they controlled congress or not.

That is why we keep losing- we let them get away with murder and stick to safe issues- it has not worked yet.

[blm]

6. The history books and the congressional record show similarities. Both

have gone after government corruption. If Conyers heeps up his good work, he may even show as positive an effect on history as Kerry. After all, Kerry has investigated and exposed more government corruption than any lawmaker in modern history.

But, maybe I read you wrong. What was your point?

[Lecky]

31. What did that have to do with anything? That came out of nowhere...lol

[Dr Fate]

42. Did I say somthing incorrect? This is about the DSM, right?

...it's about Kerry's campaign to get Senators to sign a letter he wrote.

Or Are we just supposed to say how great Kerry's letter is in this thread? His letter has not been effective.

I'm pointing out why Kohl can blow off that letter- its because know one has heard of it. Its just for show. Kerry wrote it it, then dropped it.

[Vektor]

36. Um, totally irrelevant to this thread.

What gives? That is a bizarre, out of left field statement.

[Dr Fate]

41. I thought the thread was about the DSM- sorry- I guess that is old news.

Lets talk about Kerry's impeccable grammer in the letter he wrote for the Senate then.

Boy that letter sure was cool- I cant BELIEVE that Republican would not sign it- of all the NERVE!!!! Is that better?

[Vektor]

49. Nice try.

As many of us have stated, the OP wrote about KOHL, not Kerry. You seem to be just looking for a reason to be insulting.

And yes, Kerry's grammar IS impeccable. He's brilliant.

[Dr Fate]

7. The top Democrats never wanted to touch the DSM...

...they threw us a bone so they can have an excuse when we complain that they did nothing. "NOOOO- we fought Bush on the DSM- we wrote letters and even said somthing on the internet- dontcha remember???"

Kerry never used his e-mail data base concerning the DSM- that should be a clue. The DSM was deemed "too hot" by the same "strategists" who lost the last 3 election cycles.

They wrote some letters, put a point or two on a website, and mentioned once or twice on CSPAN. I think Dean bothered to mention it once in one interview out of several appearances. I'm not sure if Kerry ever said it on TV, other than on CSPAN. Hillary apparently agrees with Bush/media that it should not be discussed at all.

The only reason they even did the bare minimum was because the blogosphere raised cane about it.

"We tried. What-me?-I thought all you Liberals blamed the media for everything-Now, about that check..."

Prove me wrong. What are top Democrats saying about it ON TV TODAY?

Instead of tying it to Rovegate, they are all ignoring it as "old news."

[TayTay]

15. The Top Dems didn't believe it would have legs

But it does. Kerry's letter was a good step. But he is not on the Senate Select intelligence Committee. (That has the jurisdiction over this stuff.) He can't make Pat Roberts hold a hearing. And only one member (Corzine, I think) of the Committee would go out on a limb and sign the call for the second hearing on 'what went wrong with the intel.'

Dr. Fate, you are getting your wish. The Rove thing, clumsily, lurching and slowly, is showing the erosion in the publics trust in * and his Admin. The people now believe he lied to get us into a war. (I am deeply sorry the public took it's sweet time about this. But it did.) The pressure is building for more investigation, but it is building slowly.

The press showed Kerry last week when he went out to talk about Homeland Security and the gaping holes in the present system and the way it is funded. I believe he had a press conference that went on for a few minutes and explained in detail what the Dem position on it was. Kerry got on the national news shows (all of 'em, I think) when he called for Rove to be fired. The news media thought that was what was newsworthy in the press conference (and the Ms. Clinton nodded her agreement to the notion that Rove needs to be fired.)

Rove. DSM, lack of WMDs, it's all starting to gel. The public is starting to get it (see the recent polls.) And the press is finally discovering what the hell their job is. It is much, much better than it was even 3 months ago. There is reason to hope that this stuff will come out.

[wisteria]

9. Well try again and explain you must of received an incorrect response.

I can tell you though, my senators ignore letters for so long that by the time I receive a reply, it months after the fact.

[calimary]

12. DON'T say "fuck it." Hammer him AGAIN. He needs to be reminded

that he represents YOU, TOO, and that there are more people thinking like YOU do, every day. Has he checked the polls lately? One lucid poster here (forgive me for not remembering who it was - they really deserve credit for this) pointed out that for these people, the way the numbers are sliding, YOUR vote may mean the difference between his winning and losing, so he is loathe to turn his nose up at you. He does that at his own peril. If I were a Republican just now, I'd be searching madly for ways I could find to work with Democrats and reach meetings of the mind, rather than just attack-attack-attack-put down-insult-attack-insult-attack-attack-attack. Because I'm seeing more and more articles echoing that the republi-CONS are getting nervous about next year. I hope they are. I hope they sleep fitfully from now til the voters issue them pink slips. All this madness, this nightmare, this unnecessary war and all its dead and wreckage - all of that blood, wasted taxpayers' money, and American integrity around the world - it's all on their heads, hands, and consciences (assuming some of them even have a conscience).

Send him another note. Do it ANYWAY. Onward the resistance!

[Lone_Wolf]

14. Write him again...

I'd say it is a calculated move on his office's part to discourage you.

If you have a copy of the original letter send it with a copy of their response along with a new letter explaining that their reply had nothing to do with your original letter. Politely explain that you took the time to write this letter and you expect a little more courtesy. I'd also write something along the lines of "If they can't appropriately respond to a constituent's letter, then you doubt they are competent enough to hold the office and will factor this in when up for reelection."

[zulchzulu]

16. LC, don't expect ANYTHING from Kohl

I remember meeting him for the first time will doing a Kerry table at Madison's Farmer Market and can only say that he is a fairly unmemorable person. He's got all the money in the World and still dresses like a tacky Racetrack Charlie.

He's just there for the....parties? Who knows.

Russ is a MUCH better bet....as you well know.

[LittleClarkie]

20. True

I bet the reply from Feingold would have at least addressed the correct issue.

[mikelewis]

17. Mail him a booger

[geckosfeet]

21. Yeah,, hit him again.

[LittleClarkie]

22. Maybe so, just to make him have to respond

with something resembling an answer.

Honestly, I wouldn't have gotten this pissed if it had been a form letter. But to use a specific one, and have it be the wrong issue.

At the very least, somebody on staff is losing it.

[geckosfeet]

23. If he goofs up twice,,,,, maybe you need to let him know about it.