Regarding the Downing Street Memo: Did Kerry do enough?

[ecstatic]

Do you believe Senator Kerry did everything in his power to bring this issue to the attention of the public and other lawmakers?

[ScamUSA.Com]

1. Kerry = Ineffective

The only thing he can seem to accomplish is a tan

[sniffa]

3. he's not even good at making snarky comments

[second edition]

11. Being a senator is not about making "snarky" comments. n/t

[sniffa]

12. but it is about getting a tan

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CWebster]

2. lol

He said the word.

Don't expect another bone to be tossed your way.

[TayTay]

4. This is too black and white

The truth is always grayer. I know this pisses some people off who want everything to exist in a yes or no universe, but it's true.

The DSM *is* sinking in with the American people. However, there is no single thing that is going to happen that will suddenly and completely turn American opinion around on * and his policies. It doesn't work that way. The DSM is a piece of the puzzle, it is not the whole puzzle and will never be viewed that way.

Did anyone check the polls this weekend? The American people, by 2-1 margins believe that * is stonewalling on the KKKarl Rove/Valerie Plame situation. * is no longer seen as a truthful, straight shooter. (His numbers are way, way down.) The American people believe that the Iraq war was a mistake and that * lied to us to get us into it.

People, you are winning. (Yes, I know that the thought of winning a PR battle is almost impossible to accept, but it is true.) The process of the drip, drip, drip acculmulation of evidence against * and his policies is having an effect. Deal with it.

Kerry circulated the letter for his colleagues to sign to force the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence to hold the part 2 of their 'what went wrong with the Intel' hearings. He is not a member of that committee. He got one sig from a comm member. He needed 5 to get the hearings going. The failure is not his, it's the other Dems on the committee who won't sign the letter. It's the failure of Dems who still won't take on the issue and who still won't challenge * on an issue that could be construed as unpatriotic.

So, what did you do to get the letter signed. Should I view your efforts as a failure or not?

[CWebster]

5. Yeah, but TayTay

It isn't for any courageous stand that Kerry ever took. He is a member of the wealthy ruling class that expects the privilege of the presidency--as if it were an unquestioned entitlement. Talk about being out of touch with reality--had he demonstrated 1/8 of the resolve and determination of Wilson, the erosion of Bush would've commenced long ago. But Kerry never had a sense of a pulse and that does not indicate effective leadership.

[TayTay]

7. Well someone is sure doing a good job somewhere

Because those numbers are sure looking good for Dems. The American people seem to have gotten the memo. (Pardon the pun.)

We will probably end up agreeing to disagree on this, as it is a subjective comment. I heard Carl Levin mention DSM on the Senate floor. I heard Ted Kennedy use the phrase. And then I heard (crickets.) Kerry came out with the letter, pushed it in the Dem Caucus, sent it to every Senator and got 9 votes.

Now, a question for you. The letter is a Senate procedure intended to provoke a reaction within the Senate and for action in a Senate committee. What do you want to see happen next? (Wild fantasy, surprise me.) What do you recommend as action to get a hearing to explore the issues raised in the DSM? How do you get this if there is resistance to exploring this because some people believe it will have blowback and damage their reputations and the forward path of the Party?

Now, to be fair, you must remember that a lot of Dems won't even say DSM. Have Hillary, Obama, Leahy, Rockefeller, Byrd, Boxer and others sent out their own letters? Are their competing interests in the Senate that are all vying to be the first to be publicly identified as the DSM point person in the Senate? Please include an http link to the articles that show this.

Kerry has not gotten a hearing yet. There is, to my knowledge, no time stamp on this letter that says letter only good until 7/28/05. The pressure continues to build. (Again, look at the polls.) Try again. It is my feeling that the pressure will continue over the August break. Then Kerry must try again. (Politics is the ultimate game of patience. It is not a sprint, it is a marathon.)

[karynnj]

22. Name one politician who has taken more courageous stands

What actually surprises me is that Kerry, born to the class and connections (although not wealth) as he was, has taken courageous stands over his life. With each of these actions, he knew he risked his future career, but he did what he thought was right.

He certainly was willing to use his upper-class connections, his stellar war record, and his eloquence and intelligence to become a unique critic of the Vietnam war. When he came back, he was not facing the homelessness, lack of medical help, or other problems faced by some fellow vets, nor was he facing future VN service. He seemed to have been genuinely outraged about both the war and the the poor treatment of the veterans. He knew his background gave him access and his medals and record gave him credability. The Nixon tapes demonstrate that, unlike other protesters - who often inadvertently hurt then own cause by scaring people - Nixon feared Kerry.

With the contra drug and the BCCI investigations, Kerry ignored MSM ridicule when he alone continued to investigate. He was willing to use his position as Senator to try to stop things the US was doing that were wrong.

In each of these instances, Kerry leveraged the position and assets he had to try to accomplish as much as he could, the liklihood is that he did what he thought was most likely to work both last year and now. It is possible to second guess how outspoken he was last year, but it is not possible to know if a more aggressive stance would have helped or hurt.

In speaking out over the last few months, he seems to be a force pushing many of the anti-Bush issues, in a steady, thoughtful way. Kerry's pre-response to Bush's Iraq speech was a clear exit plan, something that Bush's speech and actions don't show. That plus his clear statement of no long term Iraq bases provide an alternative to the Bush policies. Kerry was great on the various talk shows following Bush's speech.

Looking over everything he has done in his life, what is consistent is that he has always fought things in a very classy, disciplined, intelligent way. If he was not a fire brand at 27 as a top anti war protester, he is unlikely to be one as a 61 year old Senator. His methods have worked for him in the past. I am happy to see that he is addressing so many issues and am willing to trust that he is doing what he thinks is most likely to succeed. Pushing others to step up seems more productive than critisizing one of the few people consistently fighting because his methods are not of your choosing.

[CWebster]

31. Ha!

You mean the honorable past that he does his best to dismiss, or to excuse as a young man's folly? You know, when he stated the famous "How do you ask the last man to die for a mistake, Senator?".

Oh yes, and the Iran Contra...where every bad player now has been promoted to a position of even more political power?

Yeah, what a lot to crow about.

[TayTay]

34. Hey, where's my response

I was here first. Go back and answer mine CB?

(Oh, and I can't watch that Foreign Relations Comm hearing this afternoon on the growth of the political system in Iraq. I wonder if the Sy Hersh article about fixing the election in Jan might come up. Write something if you get a chance to watch this 2:30 meeting. Get the web broadcast link off of the Sen ForeRelComm site.)

[karynnj]

45. Thanks for the info

Sounds like an interesting committee. (and thanks to you, I know how to get the hearing. :) I'll try to see it and post.

[karynnj]

43. What Nonsense

He mentioned his antiwar effort in his acceptance speech - I have never heard him dismiss it or excuse it. The closest thing to that is that he said on MTP that he would have used different language now than he did then. It obviously bothers him that some of the people he was speaking out for were instead hurt by what he said.

As to Iran Contra, the drug smuggling ended when it became public. The public would likely never have had verification that these things happened if Kerry wasn't tenaciously fighting it. Kerry was excluded from the hearings and they were poorly done - clearly not Kerry's fault. Some of the few indictments came from people lying to Kerry's investigation. Bush I pardoned everyone and in the euphoria of the early Clinton years no one complained. Yes, I would have preferred an alternative reality where the hearings were done properly, people reacted in horror to the evil done by their government and Bush, totally dishonored, lost to Dukakis. (If it happened later, we would have had a President Quayle.) We would then never have heard of W.

Would you have respected Kerry more if he opted not to do any of these 3 things, because the their was almost no chance of political gain in any, they would likely make him a RW target, and there was almost no chance for a clear storybook victory? In each case he worked hard to do what he thought right.

[flpoljunkie]

6. Excellent post. Below is link to the Senators on the Intel Committee.

http://intelligence.senate.gov/members.htm

Email them and urge them to sign Senator Kerry's letter urging their committee to complete Phase II of the investigation--how intellligence was used in the run up to the Iraq War--which Chairman Pat Roberts agreed to in February, 2002.

Let's not stop now. Bombard them with emails demanding that they do their job.

[ihaveaquestion]

8. With the exception of John Conyers

No Senator or Member of Congress have done enough.

I have yet to see a letter in my mailbox denouncing the reasons for going to war. Don't Senators and Congressmen have access to free mail to their constituents? Or is that a thing of the past?

[second edition]

9. This is a ridiculous poll. Of course he did enough.

He did more than any other senator. He did more than Boxer, he did more than Clinton, he did more than Feingold and he did more than our DNC Chairman Howard Dean. As a matter of fact, Dean could have possible used these DSM as a fund raising tool but didn't. The real truth is Coyner's position allows him more flexibility to request and conduct inquires, the senate is more formal. I for one think Kerry did more than was necessary. Answering a direct question concerning the minutes and having his name associated with questioning them seems enough to me.The formal letter to the Intelligence committee leaders, is just icing on the cake.
What the original poster should be doing to be more effective is ask what everyone else's senators have done in regards to addressing the minutes.
This poll, as it is, is just another Kerry bashing exercise.

[ihaveaquestion]

13. You're right - There is entirely too much Kerry bashing on DU.

I like John Kerry and always have. His election campaign was disappointingly mismanaged, but hey, that doesn't mean he deserves the kind of treatment some of the posters at DU dish out.

You're also right about the rest of our Senators / Congressmen (with obvious exceptions). What have they done to publicize the crimes and misdemeanors of the Bushies lately?

[second edition]

14. Thank you! n/t

[ScamUSA.Com]

17. why bet on a losing horse?

"count every vote"

indeed

[ihaveaquestion]

19. Why beat up the horse?

Unless you get some kind of sick pleasure out of it. It's time to give Kerry a rest and focus on current events.

[Dr Fate]

30. True- he did more than any other Senator or Dean- but it was not enough.

Witnessed by the fact that no one knows about the DSM or Kerry's letter.

If he were serious about his "letter", he would be talking about it and drumming up awareness of it.

When was the last time he even mentioned the DSM or his letter on TV or in a newspaper, or even in one of his e-mails?

[Mass]

46. but this thread asking the question only for Kerry is still flamebait.

[Dr Fate]

50. For the record, I think ALL DEMs with media access dropped the ball.

And Kerry did more than anyone except Conyers.

That still does not negate my criticism of DEM "strategy"- which is apparently to let this die in favor of "safe" issues.

[Mass]

51. I do not fhink you opened the thread.

[GreenPartyVoter]

16. I have no idea if he did enough. The media makes it kinda hard to

monitor his every move. I only know what was reported about him.

[Dr Fate]

25. Is he "banned" from mentioning it when he is interviewed?

???

[Imagevision]

18. Kerry puts out a message to keep his name in the news he didn't

do beans to help Conyers with Ohio election-fraud, Kerry was a dream and that's it.As far as I'm concerned, he said all your votes would be counted? - we now know that this wasn't the case.

Kerry actually stated that he believe's the Osama video released days before the election is what did him in? -- yeah! - right!!

[zulchzulu]

20. This Kerry Bashing Flamebait brought to you by...

...people have have NO IDEA what it takes to get things done in Washington DC....they think it's a freaking video game...Doom...whatever...

Get a goddamn clue.

[CWebster]

21. This apology brought to you..

by those willing to provide cover for politicians unwilling to oppose loudly and consistantly the very worst criminal thugs who grabbed the reins of this country and dragged it down to it's knees over the past 5 years.

[karynnj]

23. There are 100 Senators, including 45 on our side

how many are more consistently fighting Bush? If Kerry is clearly in the top 10, why is he getting more grief than the bottom 35 put together? He is not superman and he can't as one of the minority control the Senate. Screaming loudly often results in less, not more attention as it is easily dismissed as temper tantrums.

[Dr Fate]

27. No one said he needed to scream. He can calmly talk about it on TV shows.

And so could other DEMs with media access- but they think writing a letter is better I guess.

[Dr Fate]

26. If Kerry had faked a war, Republicans would do more than write a letter.

They would all be on TV every night getting the public riled up.

It's not a video game- its just plain old advertising. What is better advertising- letters & "releases" on a website or TV appearances?

[politicasista]

57. LOL!

:yourock:

[Dr Fate]

24. He wrote a letter and "released" a statement on a website...

...he also said somthing on CSPAN I believe.

What he did not do was take it to TV shows when he was interviewed or even send out a mass email encouraging folks to promote the hearings or to compell supporters to ask their Senators to sign his letter. I'm not sure if he ever even mentioned the hearings while they were in the news cycle.

It's not just Kerry- other top DEMS w/ media access like Dean, Hillary, Obama, Reid, etc have essentially ignored this in terms of mass media. Dean mentioned it on TV once to my knowledge (he said nothing during the hearings), Reid mentioned it on CSPAN once to my knowledge.

Face it folks, the top DEMs apparently agree with Bush/media- this is "old news". Prove me wrong- what did Kerry, Dean, Hilllary, Reid, Obama , etc say about it TODAY? Yesterday? The day before that? Last week? It's "old news."

[emulatorloo]

28. No - he should have set fire to the Senate Chamber when noone signed

his letter.

Then he should have taken a helicopter to Madison Square Garden and sang Happiness is a Warm Gun onstage w Ringo and Paul McCartney,

Then at that point he should have committed hari-kari on a payperview special.

[Dr Fate]

32. Or, he could have calmly discussed it on various network & cable shows.

And he could have sent out a mass email encouraging supporters to call their senators, like he does for every "safe" issue. He has even taken out full-page ads before- so he knows how to promote issues when he thinks they are important.

[emulatorloo]

35. If Paul and Ringo accompany him, he might have a chance to get on TV

EOM

[Dr Fate]

37. So Kerry is "not allowed" on TV? Funny, I thought a saw him on CNN before.

Kerry & Dean have done TV interviews during the DSM news cycle- I watched them myself. Dean actually did mention it once- but failed to mention it several other times.

I've seen Hillary, Obama & Reid on those TV shows too- so I know they are "allowed" on.

And what about his mass emails? He sends them out for every single issue except the DSM- why is that?

[emulatorloo]

38. Write him and ask him

He can answer it better than I can, or a bunch of DU Kerry bashers can.

Now, on the other hand:

I too have seen Kerry on CNN for the nano-second coverage they give him. Fortunately the image stays on my retina briefly before it fades away.

Dean is making some inroads on the TV thing and a lot of it is about getting as organized as the Bush Bots are. . .

but there is still some serious gatekeeping going on w the cable news networks. . .

[Dr Fate]

40. I've done that about 8 or 9 times.

Kerry is aware that the base wants DEMs with media access to speak up more about Bush crimes/lies- that is why he threw us a bone and wrote a letter.

[blm]

56. Kerry mentioned DS on CNN when he was on after Bush's speech. They glossed

over the DSM as if he never mentioned it.

CNN only wanted to talk about the speech.

[karynnj]

39. Kerry knows which Senators are on the committee

He knows their positions and their likelihood to be swayed. If nothing else he brought up the point that there was a second part of the WMD that was suppose to be done. Virtually no one else is bringing this up. Remember McCain is on that committee - and they are not doing their job. The likelihood is that, in addition to most Republicans, there are probably powerful Democrats who would like to have this disappear.

[Dr Fate]

41. DEMs with media access should have made the DSM an issue on TV.

Instead the DEMs who can get on TV shows virtually ignored it- they "released" some statements on Liberal websites, said a word or two on CSPAN and wrote letters.

Now- imagine if a document surfaced showing Gore or Kerry had faked a war, and imagine top Republicans not even mentioning that when they go on TV.

That is why we lose elections- we ignore Bush crimes & stick to safe issues- it has not won us an election yet.

[pgh_dem]

29. Other - K did more than almost all other Sens, but could still do more

And hardly everything in his power. At least he did bring some attention to the DSM...the case isn't dead, as the 'sexing up' or 'fixing' of the intelligence is very much part of the Wilson/Plame/Rove matter, which he has also addressed publicly.

I say he's doing a pretty good job as a Senator this term.

[dhinojosa]

33. FLAME BAIT!!!! Let me ask you: DID YOU DO ENOUGH?

I am going to get some coffee, Ill be back for an answer.

[Dr Fate]

36. I tried to get booked on CNN, but they had never heard of me.

What is Kerry's excuse for not mentioning the DSM on TV?

What has Dean, Kerry, Hillary, Obama, Reid said about the DSM in the past week- or is it "old news" to them now that they threw us a bone?

[dhinojosa]

42. Are you "Truth Hurts A lot"?

just wondering same avatar.

[Dr Fate]

47. No, I'm Dr Fate.

The death mask is my trademark.

[Mass]

44. QUestion: Why Kerry?

THis is flamebait.

NO SENATOR DID ENOUGH. KERRY IS ONE OF THOSE WHO DID THE MOST.

[Dr Fate]

48. What did he do besides write a letter?

We are arguing from the false premise that anyone did anything. He wrote a letter. Big whop. So did I.

You are correct to point out that this is not just about Kerry- all DEMs with media access could have gone on TV and drummed up this issue- that is what Republicans would have done to us-whether they controlled congress or not.

As it is, no DEMs with media access have not said a word about the DSM in a couple of weeks- it's apparently "old news."

[Mass]

49. Did you read what I said

I said no senators did enough.

But my objection is on a thread targetting specifically Kerry.

There are 45 Democratic Senators. 44 are just ignored. Sorry, this is flamebait.

I could obviously open 44 other threads on the subject with 44 other names, but I do not think this would be very effective, so I opened a thread including all Senators. If you want to vent on them rather than indulge on Kerry bashing specifically, please feel free.

[Dr Fate]

52. *I* target Kerry , Dean, Hillary, etc because they have media access.

Because people have heard of them, people listen to them, and they cna get reactions from RWers, thus getting the issue in the echo chamber.

We need to stop blaming the media and start asking why our "Star" DEMs wont talk about certain issues when they are on TV.

[Mass]

53. I dont think I targetted the media

I think I was targetting the OP.

[globalvillage]

54. This post draws the conclusion that this is over.

Why are you asking if he did enough when he's not done yet?
Don't forget, it's all connected. Rove/Plame, DSM, etc. all adds up to twisting the intelligence and the manufacturing reasons for going to war.
The DSM is public knowledge. Now Rove is public knowledge.

drip...drip...drip...

[politicasista]

55. Another day, another flamebait post

No he didn't do enough. He should have gone on live TV and choke the crap out of every single pundit and say "Give me airtime or I will knock you out on live TV." Oops! Forgot, * owns the press. :sarcasm:

[blm]

58. He did what he's SUPPOSED to do to get the committee to FINISH THEIR JOB

that is already on the agenda. Kerry is going through proper senate channels.

I would like for him to go on TV and INSULT THE SHIT out of those senators refusing to sign on to his DSM letter to the committee, but, I would never be a senator.

Are you going to post this question about every other Senator? Feingold? Biden? Clinton? etc.......

[jillan]

59. What more do you want Kerry to do?? And did you sign his new petition?

Kerry can only do so much. Did your senator sign his letter?

Get off his back. He is one of the few in the SENATE that is bringing these issues up.

And wasn't that Kerry all over the msm last week calling for Rove to be fired?????? I didn't see anyone else do that. Oh excuse me, Hillary was there bobbing her head in agreement with Kerry.

I am so sick of hearing how Kerry can do nothing right.
Maybe it's better that he didn't win since he would have had so much opposition from his own party, let alone the repugs.

Get off his back!

[AlienGirl]

60. Locking--flamebait

This thread is rapidly turning into a flame-fest.