Holy Crap! Neoconservatism was a Democratic Party sect?

[dhinojosa]

WTF?

Excerpted from Wikipedia....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wolfowitz

In late 1979 Jeanne Kirkpatrick began a migration of neoconservatives from their traditional base in the U.S. Democratic Party over to the U.S. Republican Party and its Presidential candidate Ronald Reagan. Wolfowitz joined this exodus after receiving a phone call from his old boss Fred Ikle, then working on the Reagan campaign, in which he said “Paul, you’ve got to get out of there. We want you in the new administration.” A short time later, in early 1980, Wolfowitz resigned from the Pentagon and went to work as a visiting professor at the Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (SAIS) at Johns Hopkins University.

[Zynx]

1. Yep, tis true.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

2. Not really

There was a subgroup of Democrats whose primary obsession was fighting Communism. As long as the Vietnam War raged, they were happy. They loved all foreign leaders who claimed to be anti-Communist, a trick that right-wing tyrants quickly caught on to. Fascist generals and assorted despots learned that all you had to do was call your domestic enemies "Communists" and the U.S. aid money would come rolling in.

However, then Jimmy Carter came in, and not only was he insufficiently enthusiastic about "fighting Communism" in Central America (the victory of the Sandinistas in Nicaragua occurred during his administration) but he insisted on putting human rights into the picture. This was especially infuriating to Jeane Kirkpatrick because she was a supporter of the Argentine and Uruguayan generals who were committing atrocities against their own people in the name of anti-Communism.

Then Ronald Reagan came along, and he seemed to be the perfect figurehead for continuing the militaristic tone that the hawkish wing of the Democratic Party loved.

I don't know about Wolfowitz, but some of the older neocons became overly enamored of militarism during World War II and were happy as Democrats as long as that philosophy prevailed.

Other neocons, like Norman Podhoretz, were actually Communists or Socialists in their early lives and switched 180 degrees when Khrushchev denounced Stalin in 1956, first to become fanatically anti-Communist Democrats and later to become fanatically everything Republicans.

I see the neocons as practitioners of black and white thinking. If they hold a certain ideology, everyone opposed to it is evil. If their ideology fails them, they can go only to the polar opposite that they once despised, not to some sort of reasoned alternative.

[htuttle]

3. Yup, 'Scoop Jackson Democrats'

Back in the olden days, Republicans used to err on the side of isolationism, and Democrats were the empire builders, for better or for worse (mostly for worse).

Nowdays, it seems like everyone in DC is an empire builder....

[leveymg]

4. "Scoop Jackson" Dems. Now they've wrecked the GOP, too.

A lot of them actually started as Trotskyites, before they realized there was more foundation money for New Rightists than Old Lefties.

Maybe they simply carried out their original mission of destroying American capitalism and military might? Where's J. Edgar when we need him?

[flaminbats]

21. now on to the Green Party!!!

cut taxes, increase military spending, and pray to jesus our economy may boom...

[indigonation]

5. Probably leftovers stragglers from the northern Dixiecrats

Good riddance.

What's more telling about that is the statement: “Paul, you’ve got to get out of there. We want you in the new administration. A short time later, in early 1980, Wolfowitz resigned from the Pentagon..."

If this occured before the 1980 presidential election, how did they know what was going to be the 'new administration' (ie Reagan) ?

tin-foil hat on again

[wli]

11. October unsurprise

[stray cat]

6. My understanding is they were the former "educated liberal elites"

Many of who split from democrats on the Vietnam War and the peace protests.

[dhinojosa]

7. educated?????

I guess you can be educated and still dumb as a doorknob...

[Totally Committed]

8. You mean the DLC is the Opus Dei of the Democratic Party?

I've always kind of seen it that way. But, I am a Leftie at heart. And, the DLC is what we're talking about here.

TC

[MsTryska]

9. I thought they were far leftists......

trotskyites, to start with.....

and then soemhow switched from pro-communist - to anti-communist.

if i recall that was wolfowitz and perle's stories.

kristol too, if i recall correctly.

[QC]

10. That is correct.

And, like their fellow traveler David horowitz, they still think like commies.

[MsTryska]

16. i know that's the thing that I marvel at......

all they did was trade communism for fascism - the authoritarian streak is still there.

i remember syaing that to some freeper when he came at me with the "a conservative is a liberal who's been mugged" line from one of the aforementioned.


never heard from him again.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Let's not forget Horowitz.

Much as we would like to...

[MsTryska]

17. or Podhoretz!

they all should be forgotten tho.

[Zensea]

12. Was? - Neoconservative and neoliberal are not that different

Actually I think Wikipedia has it slightly wrong.
It should say Kirkpatrick began a migration of neoliberals from the Democratic party and they changed their name to neoconservatives when they joined the Republican party.

Also neoliberalism is still very much with us in the Democratic party.
An example being some of the Democratic party responses to Venezuela.

[cheeseit]

13. Or in some cases a Socialist Party sect

Particularly in the case of Social Democrats USA- the direct (although far altered ideologically and far reduced in number by the exit of most of its members to less war-mongering socialist groups) descendant of the Socialist party of Eugene Debs and Norman Thomas (neither of whom I think for a minute would have much respect for the organisation as it is now). They became fanatically anti-communist under the direction of Max Schactman (who, almost needless to say, was himself a former communist) in the 1960s, to the point where they supported Reagan over Carter in 1980, and became known sardonically during the 1980s as "State Department USA" because so many of their members worked in his administration. Paul Wolfowitz was closely involved with this organisation in the 1970s, and I think William Kristol may have been as well. They're still around (though tiny) and are indeed still left-of-centre on most domestic issues (especially relating to labor); in fact, they're still a member of the Socialist International- I believe Tony Blair is their current idol, naturally enough.

[leveymg]

19. Also, see Fabians. There are a lot of corrupted strains of what started

out as a quite idealistic, one-big-peaceful-workers-world movement.

The Stalinists and Fascists, alike, were generously supported by the same core cell of global oil-gopolists who gave us BushCo. This cell also funded the creation of global terrorism. We have a lot to thank them for.

[Douglas Carpenter]

22. yes, if I remember the story

Schactman formed Social Democrats USA--a fanatically anti-communist group--they are the ones who evolved into the current neocons

Michael Harrington--formed DSOC (Democratic Socialist Organizing Committee) later merging with another group to form DSA who still primarily work within the Democratic Party--They now tend to be genuine democratic socialist committed to peace and justice

While the more ideologically pure followed former Milwaukee Mayor, Frank Ziegler to form SPUSA--who are committed to third party work and are more orthodox in their Debsian democratic-socialism.

[durutti]

15. Still are.

See Social Democrats USA.

[fob]

18. So while the REpublicks have REgressed the Democrats have

progressed beyond that crap. Hooray for progressives!

[dhinojosa]

20. hehe, excellent point.