http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0507/22/wbr.01.htmlZOGBY: I can't let this discussion go, Wolf, without commenting on the fact that the congressman refers to bombastic or not listening, but I have listened to him. And I cannot let this conversation go without noting his comments about bombing Mecca that were so irresponsible, so damaging, are playing all over the world.
I mean, Republicans jumped all over Senator Durbin for comments that weren't even being reported in the Arab world. They were on an English-language web site here in America. But congressman's comments are all over the Arab world, and I would like to ask him if he'd just take this opportunity to apologize for having made those comments, because they were so damaging to the American people and to our values.
BLITZER: Well, for our viewers -- hold on, hold on, Congressman...
(CROSSTALK)
TANCREDO: That is absolutely untrue. That is your opinion.
(CROSSTALK)
BLITZER: Hold on one second, Congressman. For our viewers who don't know what Jim Zogby is referring to, tell them what you said and what you meant.
TANCREDO: I was asked during a course of a radio interview -- I was asked what we would do if one or more of -- if one or more nuclear devices were detonated in the United States killing millions of people and that the perpetrators were determined to be fundamentalist Islamic terrorists.
And I said one of the things we should of course think about first is how to prevent it. And that might be a threat, and that threat might include, in fact, bombing holy sites, if they were to do that.
Now, I put it out there as just as I have said here. Now, I never said, "We should go and bomb holy sites." That's the way, of course, it's been reported around the world. But as a threat, who knows whether or not that would actually do what we hope it would do and deter somebody and actually get the Muslim world, the rational, true Muslim world, to do something to corral the people who are as much a threat to them as they are to us?
I certainly do not apologize for that. And just because Mr. Zogby takes issue with it, I will tell you that a great number of people throughout the world from which we have heard do not take issue with it, and in fact, have sent us kudos.
ZOGBY: Well, the State Department's taken issues...
TANCREDO: Oh, my God, the State Department didn't like it? Oh, then I'd better reconsider.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: And several governments that are very close to the United States have taken issue with it. And I think that several of your colleagues, who I've spoken with, are also scratching their heads wondering what was going on.
TANCREDO: Several of my colleagues have come to my defense, including the Democratic senator from my state. So don't try to portray this as just a one-way thing that I said something that the world is reacting negatively to.
Now, certainly some people are, but a lot of people aren't. And you know what? Sometimes we need to say things that need to be said.
ZOGBY: Like bombing Mecca?
TANCREDO: I didn't say to bomb Mecca. You know, you're the problem. You actually create the problem when you say it that way.
I didn't say to do it. I said that we may use that as a threat. That is a threat. It is not the reality.
BLITZER: Here's the way it was...
TANCREDO: We're not supposed to do it.
BLITZER: We're almost out of time, Congressman. I'll just read to you the way it was reported. You made a statement that went like this.
"If this happens in the United States," -- referring to a major terror attack along the lines that you described -- "and we determine that it is the result of extremist fundamentalist Muslims, you know, you could take out their holy sites." And then the interviewer said, "You're talking about bombing Mecca?" And you said, "Yes."
TANCREDO: That is correct. But you have to preface it with, of course, my comments before we ever got there. When he asked me about it originally, and right before what you just read, I said, "Well, you have to think of, what would be a deterrent, a deterrent?" So not as something that you would do.
ZOGBY: Congressman, there's no proportionality to bombing the holiest site to a billion-and-a-half people. There's no...
TANCREDO: OK, you're talking about a threat -- I was responding to a threat of killing millions of Americans, a threat that was voiced by a representative of al Qaeda who says the next device -- I mean, the next attack on America, he said they want to take out 4 million Americans, 2 million children.
Let me tell you, I get upset by that. I get insulted by it. And so don't give me this proportionality. You try to kill me and my family and the rest of -- and take out most of America, I'm going to be upset.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: I grew up with that mind-set in my neighborhood, but I grew up. And the fact is, is that...
TANCREDO: Well, no, you haven't, Jim. No, you haven't, not yet. But there is hope for you.
(CROSSTALK)
ZOGBY: The fact is, sir, that you are a congressman. And when you speak, you speak with authority. And people listen to you.
TANCREDO: Jim, there is hope that you will grow up.
ZOGBY: And my fear is, is that your words have consequences, and they're incitement.
TANCREDO: I hope so.
ZOGBY: They're incitements. And they play badly around the world.
TANCREDO: I hope they have consequences. I hope people will talk about it. It's fine.
ZOGBY: And they fed bigotry here at home.
TANCREDO: So what if it plays badly? I am not here to make sure that the spin on what I say works out well, whether it's in my own district or around the world. I'm here to say what believe is true and what I think we should do to protect this nation.
And I am -- yes, I was called a fanatic. Well, you know what, about the security of this nation, I am.
ZOGBY: I think you've put our nation at risk is the point, sir.
TANCREDO: Well, I think I have made it a safer place. So there you are.
BLITZER: I think we're all out of time. But a very quick question for you, Congressman Tancredo. There's a lot of speculation you're thinking of running for president in 2008. How close are you to making that decision?
TANCREDO: A long way, a long way. As I've said a million times, the issue that has put me into the primary states recently is immigration reform. If I can -- if there is a candidate that will take up that mantle, and that banner, and speak to the issue both with heart and, as well as with their lips, I don't have to do it. If no one does it, yes, I will.
BLITZER: All right, Congressman Tancredo.
TANCREDO: I look to Jim to do my P.R.
(LAUGHTER)
BLITZER: We'll look for you both to keep joining us on our program to have these discussions.
ZOGBY: Oh, lord.
BLITZER: Jim Zogby, you wanted to say one quick thing.
ZOGBY: Well, actually I do. I mean, he'll feed into the kind of hate. What I've seen the response that he's gotten from his comments has been hate comments. And I guess there is a constituency out there that wants that. But I fear that it does not represent the best of the American people.
TANCREDO: Well, we have a difference of opinion. And that's the way it's got to be. Because this is, after all, America, and we're going to try to keep it that way.
BLITZER: All right. Gentlemen, a good, serious debate. We'll continue down the road. Thanks to both of you, Congressman Tancredo, Jim Zogby, as usual, thanks to you.
ZOGBY: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BLITZER: And after we taped that discussion, we received a statement from the office of Democratic Senator Ken Salazar responding to Representative Tancredo's claim he has Salazar's support. Salazar's press secretary, Cody Wertz, says Salazar believes, as most Americans, that, quote, "If we are attacked on our soil, we should respond. The world needs to know that," unquote.
But Wertz added this -- and I'm quoting again -- "Congressman Tancredo went too far in saying our response should include religious holy sites," Tancredo saying that should be threatened, but not necessarily done.
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