Why do people think Kucinich is staying in until the convention?

[Renew Deal]

There are several people here that think DK is running until the convention. I don't understand how this makes sense. Customarily, all candidates drop out when they can no longer win. It is unlikely that Kucinich will get delegates in any state. The reason is, you have to get at least 15% of the vote this year to get a delegate.

So let's go to March 2. The nominee is clear. They no longer need to run against any other major competition. Does Kucinich stay in it? What for? BTW, It is very unlikely there will be voting past March 10th.

[lcordero]

1. He stays in it so that the Party doesn't move any further to the

right.

[Renew Deal]

2. Who is he going to run against?

Couldn't those later primaries be cancelled to save money?

[Desertrose]

30. I wouldn't want my state primary cancelled thank you!

you are kidding about that right?

WTF...cancel primaries to save money?? Seriously??

I just figured that everyone would want their primary...their voice heard, don't ya think? I wouldn't want all the states ahead of mine to make my choice...would you??


Peace
DR

[Tinoire]

36. Just like the Republicans have done? Just cancel the Primaries

& crown Caesar?

[youngred]

62. cancelled to save money?

No, all the primaries are always held. You would deny a vote to millions of democratic party members?

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. So a far left liberal getting clobbered by a more moderate Democrat

in state after state will keep the party from moving to further to the right? I'm not sure how that will work.

[Desertrose]

67. I'm not sure that will happen....

....far left??
....clobbered?
...don't count on it....

Peace
Dr

[no name no slogan]

77. Watch out about those predictions of yours Freddy

I see you've taken down the link to your post about Dean having this wrapped up by NH. This thing still has a couple of months to go, AT A MINIMUM!

BTW, when did standing up for planks that have been in our party's platform for decades make a candidate a "far-left liberal"?
:shrug:

[xray s]

3. No voting past March 10????

WTF...Is Bush going to decare martial law and cancel the Illinois primary?

[Renew Deal]

4. lol

probably not. The nominee will be selected by then. I think the rest of the primaries will be cancelled if possible.

[youngred]

63. they don't cancel primaries

its just not done

[beyurslf]

5. Once the nominee is sealed

most states cancel their primary/caucuses. Actually, Kansas is expected to be the last caucus. We vote March 13. We will either be the first one that doesn't matter (nominee found) or we will be the one who puts someone over the top. Either way, we will probably hold our caucus since it is just days after the March 10 primaries. I think the ones that follow will all be canceled to save money.

[iowapeacechief]

6. Are you asking why or how?

Why is to influence the outcome, if not to "win" the nomination.

How is based on support "on the ground" in every state along the way. As he says, he is defying the usual "laws of political physics."


((quote))
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=31741
Kucinich says slow, steady wins the race
By HOLLY RAMER
The Associated Press
1/16/2004

CONCORD -- The way Dennis Kucinich sees it, keeping his presidential campaign alive depends simply on staying alive himself.

"I will have exceeded the expectations of the media if on Jan. 27 I have a heartbeat," the Ohio congressman said Thursday when asked what threshold he has set for the New Hampshire primary.

During an interview with The Associated Press, Kucinich rose from his chair and stepped over an imaginary line on the floor to illustrate how he will surmount the low bar most of the national media has set for his candidacy.

"I can just kind of walk over it, and say, 'On to the next election,'" he said.

Stuck in single digits as the race tightens in Iowa and New Hampshire, Kucinich said his strategy is focused on slow, steady movement. He insists a nominee won't emerge before the Democratic convention in July and that by then, he'll have picked up enough delegates here and there to win.

"I'm not subject to the same laws of political physics that other campaigns are, where they have to maintain a momentum in order to keep going," he said. "My time hasn't come yet. Every candidate's had their little day in the sun, but I haven't been there yet. When I am, the whole dynamic will change in this election."
<...>
((unquote))

[redqueen]

7. Is there a precedent for shutting down voting in later primaries?

Have primaries been cancelled in prvevious campaigns? For whom and when?

This sounds most undemocratic.

[Renew Deal]

8. It's sorta democratic

The winner has been determined. So the rest of the delegates are pledged to the winner for a unifyed convention. I believe it happens every year the nominee is chosen before the convention.

[redqueen]

13. So there is precedent?

The delegates from the states that haven't voted just decide what they'll do no matter what the people in the states think?

What is the process for 'choosing the nominee before the convention'?

[Lydia Leftcoast]

15. I've never heard of late primaries being cancelled

Oregon's primary is in May, and I voted in it in 1988, 1992, 1996, and 2000. In 1988, I voted for Jesse Jackson, even though it was clear that Dukakis would win the nomination.

For one thing, many states have to determine the candidates for state and local offices. Even Minnesota, which has no statewide offices up this year, will have caucuses so that parties can choose delegates for the district and state party conventions.

I'd really be intrigued to learn which states are cancelling their primaries, because I've never heard of it happening, and I've been voting since 1972.

[bobthedrummer]

21. Didn't Colorado end their primary?

n/t

[Desertrose]

33. yeah but I think it was a repub

kinda thing...they did a sneaky kinda backhanded thing that cancelled the dem primary somehow cause I think they were the same as AZ,NM etc.

Hey, anyone from CO? Could you 'splain please?

Other than that...I don't think too many people would just say..OK..nevermind..."you" are ahead we'll just pledge all our delegates to you...I don't think so!!

last I checked this was still a quasi -democracy


Peace
DR

[drfemoe]

55. Some states have switched from primaries to caucuses

because they're cheaper. Thanks to the economic *recovery* of the current admin, states are going bankrupt.

Democracy is too expensive to maintain. /sarcasm

[KathCO]

68. CO having Dem caucuses

Colorado dem party is having caucuses on April 13. Idaho also has caucuses and the dems do not use the primary to choose their pres candidate.

[Ficus]

9. Dennis is a true believer

plus I think we'll head into the convention without a clear leader...I really do. It'll be a riot (hopefully not literally) to watch on tv.

[LuminousX]

10. Why would he 'drop out'?

If he goes to the convention not having conceded but his delegates are needed, then he has nothing to gain by conceding.

[Renew Deal]

12. Yeah, I am saying if his delegates aren't needed.

Someone else has over 50%.

[mmonk]

11. To add conscience

[zbdent]

17. And keep the messages alive

.

[bigtree]

14. He wants to end this war

Thanks Rep. Kucinich! :-)

[xray s]

16. He should stay in the race to discuss the issues.

He is the only candidate that has the right plan to solve our health insurance crisis. That is reason enough to stay until the end.

[Renew Deal]

18. Who is he going to discuss them with? Himself?

I mean if it is over. He will not get a debate. I guess he could use campaign money to travel.

[redqueen]

20. Um... I dunno... maybe the voters?!

Geez!

:eyes:

[Renew Deal]

23. OK, I don't mean to be snotty

so please don't take it that way. If it is over and the nominee is chosen, shouldn't the nominee be talking to the voters? Why does Kucinich deserve to push his agenda as a presidential candidate if the election is over?

[redqueen]

26. I honestly can't even believe you're asking

If we leave it to the nominee (assuming it isn't Kucinich), then we won't hear about:

- the upcoming draft if we don't end the US occupation of Iraq ASAP.
- the failure of NAFTA and therefore we won't be so able to avoid CAFTA (watch, the nominee will say - it's a good thing!)
- the failure of the for-profit healthcare system, and the need to do as the rest of the civilized world has done and implement a not-for-profit healthcare system
- the need to end media monopolies
- the need to end agribusiness monopolies

I'm sure there's more that would be completely dropped off the radar if we allow only the nominee to speak to the voting public.

Beyond that, I'm really saddened that anyone would even propose that everyone else just shut up and let the 'anointed' nominee take on the debate with bush single handedly.

[Renew Deal]

32. That's not all of what I am saying.

I know I have complicated this by not communicating fully. If Kucinich wants to travel the country as a non-Candidate, that's makes lots of sense. But if the nominee is chosen, then it doesn't. I don't think the nominee should be the only one talking, but I do think that the whole party should be sending one message. And that message should be the one of the nominee.

[redqueen]

35. That stinks

What about all the people who want Kucinich as their nominee? Should they just shut up and fall in line? I want to hear his message from the pulpit of candidate for the nomination, not follower-on to the 'nominee' who can shape the debate between the centrists and the conservatives.

I don't want the message of 'the whole party' to leave out the things most important to me -- end NAFTA, stop CAFTA, single payer not-for-profit healthcare, etc. I won't be very happy to hear my representative up there saying bush's policies are not wrong, only not as good as their policies. I want my candidate saying his policies are WRONG.

[Renew Deal]

39. OK, that brings up 2 questions.

The first part is that I am assuming the nomination is sealed an over. We have picked someone through election before the convention. At that point DK would have no mathematical chance.

But why would you want one of the candidates railing against the nominee? Don't we want to actually win the GE? It is one thing to stand up for the thing you mention, but it is another to stand agains the chosen one. I do agree that Kucinich should be up there saying Bush's policies are wrong.

[redqueen]

52. Will they cancel the convention too?

Because the biggest reason to have a true progressive like DK in the race is to influence the party platform.

If he's not out there spreading the message about for-profit healthcare and anti-worker/anti-family free trade agreements, then what exactly will influence our party's platform to change?

I would want Kucinich railing not against the nominee, but the stupidity of our party for not opposing the republicans. They like free trade. They like it because they love cheap labor. Why do demorats like free trade? We need to change that, and you can't change it by saying that we'll be arguing for free-trade but with some tweaks that somehow no one could manage to tweak in the past DECADE.

Yes, we want to win the GE. Some of us think the best way to do that is with a candidate that actually stands in opposition to bush's policies, not just off to the left by an inch or two.

[no name no slogan]

78. Technically speaking, we don't have a nominee until the convention votes

We don't have a nominee until the entire convention endorses one. This still happens whether or not one candidate has a clear majority or not.

At the convention, if a nominee is clear after the first round of voting, then the other candidates usually encourage their delegates to all vote for the nominee, so it goes down on the record as a unanimous vote. Hence, the "unified front" going into November.

Don't forget, there's much more than just the presidential nomination that goes on at the convention. The platform is assembled and approved. The party leadership is chosen for the next four years. Other party officers are elected and/or approved by the various committees.

We have conventions for a reason. They are not just coronations.

[Terwilliger]

47. that's the mentality

remember, as a DK supporter, you're running against both parties

[redqueen]

53. Too true

Money has corrupted everything.

Thanks Bill, for soft money!

[jsw_81]

19. Ego, fame

Dennis Kucinich isn't stupid. You can't exactly get elected mayor of a major city in your thirties if you're an idiot. He does, however, have a large ego, and probably really likes to see his name in the paper and on TV, even after it's clear that he has no chance to win the nomination. The same thing can be said about Al Sharpton.

[IrateCitizen]

27. Complete ignorance of history on plain display here

He does, however, have a large ego, and probably really likes to see his name in the paper and on TV, even after it's clear that he has no chance to win the nomination.

Yeah. I guess that was the reason behind his stand against the efforts of Cleveland bankers and industrialists to force the privatization of Cleveland Light and Power during his tenure as mayor -- a move that resulted in his exile to the political wilderness for a good 20 years. All that kept his name on the front pages, to be sure!

Yeah, that's the ticket. :eyes:

News flash: EVERY politician has an ego -- you don't get into that business if you don't. HOWEVER, those who are more willing to compromise core principles or shy away from the telling of uncomfortable truths are giving into their egos -- because they believe that they cannot be elected if they were to do so. Kucinich probably is the one candidate in the race who is actually LEAST controlled by his own ego. OTOH, the last Democratic President we had, Bill Clinton, was LARGELY a creature of his own ego.

[jsw_81]

43. So you think Bill Clinton should have followed Dennis Kucinich's lead?

:eyes:

[IrateCitizen]

54. What on earth are you talking about???

I simply brought up Bill Clinton's devotion to his own ego as a point to refute the allegation you made that Kucinich is most concerned with his own. I don't know how that was construed into an implication that Clinton should have followed DK's lead on something -- or what that "something" you're referring to is -- but you'll have to clarify your question a good bit before I can answer it, because right now I don't have the slightest idea of what you're talking about.

:eyes:, indeed.

[drfemoe]

29. So how come no one's saying it about Al?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=194602

Not only is he going to Boston to "unify" the party, I guess the DNC is picking up the tab for his campaign. DK is probably thinking the same.

[jsw_81]

40. Because Sharpton is black

And the DNC doesn't want to enrage the black community by picking on one of their leaders in an election year.

[Renew Deal]

51. Actually, in my case, you could replace Dennis with Al.

Same argument

[Paulie]

64. Ego? He was DRAFTED!!!

This whole damn thread is making me sick.

[youngred]

74. Large Ego?

Do you know ANYTHING at all about Dennis Kucinich?

Because post after post after post of attack from you and you seem to have NO understanding at all of the man.

[iowapeacechief]

22. He is also a candidate for reelection...

...to his Ohio seat in the House. But why not stay in the national eye?

If you're so sure he can't win the nomination, why do you want him out of the race?

[Renew Deal]

24. Ugh

I don't want him out of the race. Read my question. It's pretty specific.

[iowapeacechief]

48. Sorry--so DO you want him to stay in...

...even if doesn't "make sense"?

What was the point of your question if not to argue for him to drop out?

[Renew Deal]

49. I want him to stay in as long as there is still a race.

But if the nominee is chosen (through election), then I minagine he would drop out. I am not saying he should drop out now.

[justinpower]

71. At what point

will there have been enough primaries and caucuses held that you think a clear winner will have emerged. I dont know the facts on dates and numbers of delegates state to state. Could you clue me in to this. Thanks

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. I forget what the exact number is

but given the total number of state delegates and super delegates (elected officials), there is a "magic number" of delegates that a candidate has to have firm commitments from to secure the nomination.

At some point, one of the candidates is likely to have racked up enough delegates to reach that number. If no one has done so before the convention, then the nominee will be determined either by horsetrading or by a series of elimination ballots.

Can someone refresh my memory on when this happened the last time? I think the Dem convention in 1960 had no clear winner going in, because I remember seeing Eleanor Roosevelt get up and urge everyone to nominate Adlai Stevenson.

[Desertrose]

25. because he has something to day and people need to hear it...

....to try to keep the dems from being sucked down that deep dark republican hole that is sucking at our ankles......


...so he can pull the platform more to the progressive side of the tug of war

....because he is a fighter no matter the odds.....

...becuase he speaks truth and we need to hear it...not spin...

because it isn't just about him...its about what needs to be changed in this country.

I give the man credit for mega courage & integrity.

wake up people....

Peace
DR

[Wetzelbill]

28. As long as he has the money he will stay in

Mainly because of the issues. He wants to be heard and to fight until the very end.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

31. So that his views are heard

this was made clear to me in the 'pie-chart' incident, when he said, "If Howard sees it, I've made my point", although, I think he should have made sure Kerry saw it...

[Poseidon]

34. I hope he does stay in.

I hope he stays in. He's our best damned candidate, and I hope he does stay until the convention, but I doubt it. He's gotta be running out of money. I don't think any of the other candidates match up to him. Who else is talking about single payer(besides Sharpton)? No one else is talking about lowering the social security age back to 65, where it belongs.

[Desertrose]

41. right on Poseidon!

and welcome to DU
:hi: Poseidon

I don't think he is running out of money..last I heard donations increased after Iowa and continue to pour in...hopefully after a good showing in NH the funds will flow in even faster.

BTW-I loved the heartbeat comment he made about NH expectations...

Peace
DR

[Poseidon]

44. Thanks

:hi:

[diamondsoul]

45. He's not at all running out of money!

He's got no debts and contributions coming in steadily, plus matching funds to look forward to.

Trust me he's in through the convention.

[goodhue]

37. Do you remember 1992?

Why DK stay until convention?
DK stays in to promote the Progressive Vision within the Party.
For info on the Progressive Vision, see here
http://www.kucinich.us/issues/10key.php
DK hopes the party wakes up and figures out the progressive vision is only way to stand as sufficient contrast to republicans so as to inspire new voters to vote democratic. Otherwise, same old dem/rep split and we'll be very lucky to win GE.

How DK will stay until convention?
I'm wondering if you remember 1992? Despite limited financial resources, Brown defeated Clinton in Maine, Colorado, Vermont, Connecticut, Utah and Nevada during the 1992 Presidential primaries and was the only candidate other than Clinton to receive enough voter support to continue until the Democratic National Convention. Some of these Brown wins occurred after super tuesday. He captured the "protest" vote, which is always present to some extent.

DK is planning for good showing (ie in top three) in AZ, NM, WA, MI, WI, ME, and/or HI. Then in super tuesday if he is in top three in CA he will have no problem getting to Boston. Plus also do top three in OH & hopefully MN. He has raised 9 million including matching funds and little debt. He stays in by exceeding expectations which is not as hard when they are so low.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

38. Dennis can stay in because

1) He runs a low-budget, truly grassroots campaign that relies on local volunteers to get things done. Example: he doesn't hire somebody to drive him around on campaign stops. A local volunteer does it for free.

2) His campaign has no debts and a steady supply of contributors.

3) He has already outlasted one of the more "electable" candidates.

4) Even if he doesn't get the nomination, the more delegates he wins, the better for progressives in this country. There is no better way to stick it to the DLC, corporate interests, and the military-industrial complex than to vote for Dennis in the primaries.

5) In particular, if someone else already has the nomination sewn up, voting for Dennis is a risk-free way of sticking it to the above entities.

By the way, I think that more than 50% is required for nomination, but I don't remember the exact figure.

[robsul82]

42. This thing's staying deadlocked until Jersey, baby! BANK!

Oh yeahhhhhh, hahaha.

Later.

RJS

[Renew Deal]

46. That would be incredible

I would love to see that. It would make for an amazing and exciting convention.

[Snivi Yllom]

50. ask Sharpton and Lieberman the same thing

They are in the same snowball-in-hell boat.

[Iverson]

56. for ideas (no wonder it's confusing!)

Upsetting as it is to some, Kucinich can articulate a progressive message. It's a good example, not just for the progessives who remain in the Democratic Party, but for all.

[Freddie Stubbs]

57. Candidates drop out when they can no longer win?

If Kucinich were going that route, he would have dropped out long ago. Ditto Al Sharpton.

[nancyharris]

59. The number of super delegates

all of which not “committed” until the convention and the number of “uncommitted” caucus delegates also not “committed” until the convention precludes the possibility that any candidate can “win” the nomination during the primary season. It can, of course, be clear who will win, but the actually commitment of the majority of delegates happens at the convention.

For instance, if candidate X, who has won the majority of the “committed” delegates via the primary vote commits some outrageous act or is discovered for whatever reason to be unelectable a week before the convention it is still possible for others to win the election (Whether they ran a nomination race or not!)

[goobergunch]

66. FYI, Kucinich only has 2 superdelegates

Himself and Lynn Woolsey.

[ThirdWheelLegend]

60. So that there is at least one NONcorporatist in the race?

Please oh Mr. Kucinich drop out! My life is comfortable, I don't really want to change anything! That's upsetting! Can't we have a true win and just get a guy with a (D) and a lot of smiles and rhetoric?

TWL

[youngred]

61. He says he is

Kucinich already has delegates. He's going to try and effect the platform and make changes with the government. He's runnning a $10 million campaign just to make it to the convention. This isn't about an ego trip, its about changing the democratic party

[genius]

65. Dennis could well pull states like Califonria and becomes our nominee

I'm in California and he's the only candidate I'm voting for.

[LWolf]

80. I'm in California also,

and he is the only candidate I'm voting for.

[Tinoire]

81. Make that 3 and I've got many, many more behind me. n/t

[Lydia Leftcoast]

69. By the way, everyone

I just read today's New York Times, and once again Dennis is completely ignored, not that this is anything unusual. I didn't read every single article, but I didn't even see a cursory mention of his name.

Some polls have him even with Lieberman, but the NYT has decided that he's not worth mentioning.

As I said in another thread, if by some quirk of fate Dennis were to win the New Hampshire primary, the NYT headline would be, "No clear winner in NH primary, top four candidates come in second through fifth."

[info being]

70. He's staying in because its one of the few opportunities...

we have of getting our message out to the sheeple. A lot of us out here fight for what's right...not only if we can actually win...but regardless.

[MMT]

73. I think it's important to remember that Iowa and NH - and especially NH -

are white, conservative states. Have they ever chosen from the left half of the available candidates?

Imagine how different the national expectations would be if, for example, California and Massachusetts were allowed to be first.

[maddezmom]

75. to represent his supporters

and he should stay in as long as he can.

[no name no slogan]

76. Jesse Jackson stayed in until the convention in 1988

Bradley didn't drop out until the convention. Gary Bauer also stayed in the Repub race until the end. So did Pat Robertson in 1988.

And what's this about your assertion that "It is unlikely that Kucinich will get delegates in any state"? Are you serious?

He ALREADY has delegates from Iowa. That's more than Liebermann, Clark and Sharpton have at this point. So you're assertion is clearly false-- he has delegates.

And I can tell you that in Minnesota, where we have more delegates up for grabs than both Iowa AND New Hampshire, he's one of ONLY THREE campaigns that have any sort of presence on the ground.

Dennis has already said that he has enough money, right now, to stay in this until the end. He runs a tight ship, and doesn't need a pile of money and hundreds of paid staffers to run his campaign.

[cryofan]

79. Am I the only one who is pissed off about this?

This is an outrageously undemocratic and anti-egalitarian way to run a primary. I hate it!

[youngred]

82. yes, I think you are

nt