Kerry and Allegations of Dirty Primary Tricks 30 years ago (Boston Globe)

[seventhson]

This subject was locked in another thread because it primarily used the Washington Times as a source.

See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=193939

However, the Boston Globe has covered the story and it is worth a close look. Kerry's brother and another campaign worker were arrested for breaking into a Primary opponents Building. One of those involved at the time was fellow Skull and Bonesman and then and now Kerry advisor and ex brother-in-law David Thorne.

The story is very troubling to me, as I would think it should be to many folks.

http://www.boston.com/globe/nation/packages/kerry/061803.shtml

[blm]

1. Terrible and amateurish.

They should learn from the master, Joe Trippi, and steal over 200,000 dollars worth of event tickets from your Dem opponent's campaign supporters (who traveled all day) just to win a straw poll.

[mzmolly]

38. The actual *law* was determined to be broken in the Kerry case

and arrests were made.

The Trippi *scandal* :eyes: is grasping at straws. What on earth is Trippi still doing on the streets?!

[bigtree]

45. Scandal? The charges were dropped. Conspiracy?

WHERE'S THE PROOF FOR THE CLAIMS OF A CONSPIRACY?

Kerry's brother today declines to elaborate on the circumstances surrounding the arrests and the charges, which were dropped a year later.

The Kerry camp declared it a setup, saying that the two responded to an anonymous phone call, minutes earlier, threatening to cut the campaign's 36 phone lines on the day before its get-out-the-vote effort. Lowell Police arrested the pair in an area near the trunk line for all of the building's phones.

"It was an impulsive, rash thing that we did and that John Kerry ended up having to deal with," said Cam Kerry, now a partner at the Boston law firm of Mintz Levin Cohn Ferris Glovsky and Popeo. "That's all we're going to say on that one."

Vallely, a former Marine who served in Vietnam and later became a state representative in Boston, had more to say. "I kicked in the door," he said, and then, police swarmed the area. Vallely said DiFruscia's office was of no interest; the Kerry phone lines were. In hindsight, he said, "We probably were overreacting to someone who was joking."

[blm]

46. Right. Trippi did nothing wrong.

In The New Republic (subscribers only, alas) Noam Scheiber recounts an amusing trick by Dean's campaign manager Joe Trippi in the 1980 Democratic primary when he was working for Walter Mondale. After discovering that the campagin of Mondale's rival Cranston had bought up all the tickets to an extremely important fundraising dinner , Trippi hatched a plan:


"They stopped about three miles out the staging area--the Mondale buses coming from Minnesota or wherever they were coming from... A team of Mondale aides, led by Cosgrove, plasters the bus with Cranston paraphernalia--stickers, posters, buttons, everything. Three miles down the road, the bus pulls up to the Cranston tent, where a Mondale/Cranston supporter gets out and tells a real Cranston aide he has 52 people on the bus. The aide looks up at the bus, surely admiring the military-like discipline that has brought a busload of Cranston supporters from "Los Angeles or wherever" out to the middle of Iowa this early in the day, and quietly congratulates himself. He promptly hands over 52 tickets.

And it continues like this, through bus after bus of Mondale supporters: Stop three miles up the highway, lather the bus in Cranston paraphernalia, drive on to the Cranston tent, claim your tickets. And the Cranston campaign just keeps forking them over.... Never does it occur to them that these busloads of supporters aren't the genuine article. At least not until the real Cranston buses start showing up. "Twenty buses pull up, and they're out of tickets," Trippi says, still amused at the spectacle almost 20 years later. "More Cranston buses keep pulling up, and they don't have the tickets anymore." Score one for Walter Mondale.
<<<<<<<<<<<

[DK666]

50. Oops

Sweetie take a look at your law books. No law was broken hence no conviction.
Ive been arrested several times but never convicted. }(

[DK666]

2. I Really

Please read the story before passing judgement. Lets not fly off half cocked.

[seventhson]

3. Boston Globe excerpt

(from link above in original post)

To win the primary, the newcomer overcame the election eve arrest of his brother, Cameron, and campaign field director Thomas J. Vallely, both then 22, in the basement of a Lowell building that housed the headquarters of Kerry and another Democratic contender, state Representative Anthony R. DiFruscia of Lawrence. It was almost 2 a.m. - 30 hours before the polls opened - when the two were arrested on charges of breaking and entering with intent to commit larceny.

...

... some of Kerry's claims in the Lowell break-in are wildly at odds with the facts.

...

Kerry's brother today declines to elaborate on the circumstances surrounding the arrests and the charges, which were dropped a year later.

"It was an impulsive, rash thing that we did and that John Kerry ended up having to deal with," said Cam Kerry, now a partner at the Boston law firm of Mintz Levin Cohn Ferris Glovsky and Popeo. "That's all we're going to say on that one."

[DK666]

7. And you forgot this one.

Clement C. Costello, the crusading ultraconservative editor of The Lowell Sun.


Wasn't that the same paper that ran the hit pieces ?

[Democrats unite]

4. Just goes to show...

You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

[KC21304]

5. LOL

[seventhson]

11. I thought it was very funny too

Funny like very odd and scary.

Spooky even.


What the hell were they thinking?

Why did they NOT call the cops if they feared a break-in.

I do not think the Kerry story passes the laugh test.

[seventhson]

6. Another look at it (Warning: Washington Times Insight Magazine)

Excerpt from Washington Times article:


On Sept. 18, 1972, the evening before the primary election during his second attempt for Congress, Kerry's brother Cameron and one Thomas Vallely, both part of his current campaign team, were arrested by Lowell police at 1:40 a.m. and charged with breaking and entering with the intent to commit larceny. The two were apprehended in the basement of a building whose door had been forced open, police said. It housed the headquarters of candidate DiFruscia. The Watergate scandal was making headlines at this time, and it was called the Lowell Watergate.

"They wanted to sever my telephone lines," DiFruscia said recently. Had those lines been cut, Kerry's opponent would not have been able to telephone supporters on Election Day to get out the vote and coordinate poll watchers, vital roles in a close election. "I do not know if they wanted to break into my office," says DiFruscia today. At the time he said, "All my IBM cards and the list of my voter identification in the greater Lowell area are in my headquarters."

Cameron and Vallely, along with David Thorne, who was Kerry's campaign manager at the time and has been close to him since they attended Yale together, did not deny the two entered the building in which they were captured. They said at the time they were in the cellar of the building to check their own telephone lines because they had received an anonymous call warning they would be cut.

This reporter heard an allegation that another congressional candidate placed the alleged anonymous call, which was denied. But if the Kerry campaign was concerned about someone breaking and entering to cut off its telephone service, why didn't they just call the police? Why break the law? And what does any of this say about Kerry's mind-set? Kerry campaign officials did not answer important Lowellgate questions.

Source/Link:

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m1571/2003_Sept_16/107543547/p7/article.jhtml?term=

[DK666]

8. And......?

the two responded to an anonymous phone call, minutes earlier, threatening to cut the campaign's 36 phone lines on the day before its get-out-the-vote effort. Lowell Police arrested the pair in an area near the trunk line for all of the building's phones.

[seventhson]

16. Who's phone lines?

Were they responding to a threat about THEIR lines or their opponents lines?

Were they trying to stop themselves?

The story is totally unclear. Did BOTH campaigns share phone lines? THAT seems unl;ikely and hence their story sounds very weak.

I want more facts before I decide anything.

[DK666]

19. Aparently they were housed in the same building....

To win the primary, the newcomer overcame the election eve arrest of his brother, Cameron, and campaign field director Thomas J. Vallely, both then 22, in the basement of a Lowell building that housed the headquarters of Kerry and another Democratic contender, state Representative Anthony R. DiFruscia of Lawrence.

[seventhson]

27. So why did they have to break in?

The facts do not add up.

If they were legally there thgen they would NOT have been arrested.

The facts do NOT add up.

They kicked the door in?

It is too fishy too accept Kerry's story on its face.

The Boston Glober story is FULL of nasty little tidbits about Kerry.

We will see if this story has legs.

I just wanted to be sure the Dean and Edwards campaigns knew about it.

[sangh0]

31. Lots of possible reasons

1) The building their office was located was closed. It was 2am

2) The broke the door to the telephone room

[DK666]

32. Dude

All telco doors are locked. Its called an egress point or access point. They kicked in the door. They even said so in the article. Telco rooms are usually the property of the phone company and the cops seemed to get there kinda fast didnt they ? Mabey the other side of the story dosent add up. I dont really know what axe you have to grind but you were trying to frame your hit on Kerry by using words and phrases like.

facts do not add up
legally
too fishy
Kerry's story
nasty little tidbits
story has legs


You are willing to accept the word of Clement C. Costello, the crusading ultraconservative editor of The Lowell Sun. Over that of Kerry without checking it out first tells me that you are pushing an agenda not trying to inform Dean and Edwards campaigns.

IMHO

[KC21304]

42. Same M.O. I've seen for at least 18 months.

More Bull and Scones for everyone.

[DK666]

51. Ahhhh

Did you just flame me ?

[KC21304]

57. Heavens no. I was speaking of the M.O. of the person you were

answering. You wondered why he would do such a thing and I wanted to let you know that it has been going on for 18 months. We Kerry people just kind of turn it into jokes now, though I did get a little carried away and get one deleted in this thread. First one since the new rules, but I guess I better watch out.

[DK666]

62. TY

Whew.

I just dont like people who hide behind skewed facts to push agendas. Like I said in earlier posts. Ya gotta read not just listen to doundbytes and alwqys consider the source.

[KC21304]

47. Why are you bringing up a story 30 yrs old that is "totally unclear " ?

[seventhson]

72. Because it Is clear that there were possible crimes committed in a primary

race and that Kerry was behind it.

I think it is relevent on the issue of who is behind the dirty tricks against Dean in the past days and weeks.

I think it shows a possible pattern and practicve of deceit and criminality.

It shows ANOTHER exampe of the involvement of Skull and Bones members in 3hat appear to be political dirty tricks.

If it is UNCLEAR that Kerry is innocent of these charges - especially NOW - then it needs to be brought forth for consideration of the voters and the media so that people can decide if he can be trusted or not.

We need more facts and thus we need to discuss it and get those facts so we can see if Kerry's story holds up.

Do we NEED another Bonesman pulling dirty campaign tricks in the White House?

[DK666]

74. OMG

Do I need my helmet ?



How many time do we have to go through this ?

[displacedtexan]

12. The Washington Times?

Well, even though 56% in NH believe that Kerry can beat *, let's be sure something reported by the Washington Times theat might have happened 30 years ago makes us go with a weaker match-up candidate.

What was I thinking?

[lurk_no_more]

20. Knowing what I know now about Kerry

This doesn't surprise me, the man will do and say anything to get elected, it'll bite him in the ass yet.


And then there were none!
” JAFO”

[bigtree]

49. Stating that it is a republican page

Doesn't cover for their innuendo and distortion that you are perpetuating with this post. Proud? Do you agree with all of the republican smears and distortions or just the drivel about John?

[seventhson]

67. My own opinion? Since you asked...

I do happen to believe that Kerry is a BFEE insider.

I also feel that way about Clinton.

and Clark.

I do NOT feel that way about Gore, Dean, Edwards or Kucinich.


I think Kerry has been falsely portrayed as a progressive liberal for his whole adult life.

I accept that I may be wrong, but his failure to renounce Skull and Bones will ALWAYS make me thoroughly distrust him.

I think Skull and their members are pretty much pure evil of the wasp variety.

[La_Serpiente]

9. Amazing

still pushing the shit eh?

Here was the locked thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=194223

The charges were dismissed and there wasn't any hard evidence of wrongdoing. The Justice System did its work, and the case has been closed for more than a half century. You are purely speculating my friend, and its time you dropped the act.

Your anti-Kerry diatribe is motivated out of malice for the man.

[jpgray]

10. I agree with seventhson (for once), you should read the Globe article

Read it and decide for yourself what to believe. It is true that Kerry district-hopped and ran some amateurish campaigns in his youth. There are claims that the phone thing was a "setup", because the opponent in question didn't factor into the race--the details are in the article. Lowell was steeped in dirty campaigning, and if the Kerry campaign fell into it, that is truly a shame--however, the evidence doesn't point clearly in any one direction.

[seventhson]

14. Thanks JPGray

It is very troubling to say the least.

The main reason I posted this (or responded so much to the original post) is because this seems to me to be a CLASSIC bungled Skull andf Bones type bit of nastiness.

The elites at Skull think they are privileged and above the law - as evidenced by their alleged and apparently documented grave robbing and use of human skulls in their New Haven tomb (which death motif represents the seriousness with which their deeds/duties are taken by the Order) and initiation rituals.

Are they above the law?

This is a very serious matter IMHO which has NOT been given enough attention because Kerry has been tanking until a week or so ago.

But the dirty tricks in New Hampshire and Iowa targetd at Dean and possibly others is indicative of a pattern of abuse IMHO by Kerry.

He plays for keeps, it seems.

Very Skullian.

[Old and In the Way]

21. Yes, I see it now....the skull.....and bones.

dat skull, dat skull, dat skull and bones.

Hey, didn't Little Feat do that tune? And Lowell George fronted them....Lowell....Lowell, Ma. George......George Bush.

Hmmmmmm, this could just be the missing link......

[windansea]

37. LF (with Lowell George) recorded their last album

in a studio I co owned...Down on the Farm...recorded at Longhorn Studios in Malibu CA....I saw it all go down and was lucky to watch the best white blues singer ever before he OD'd

[bigtree]

52. Goose Bumps.

[Old and In the Way]

58. You don't say.

Sweet. He made great music, we lost a good one in LG.

Now, back to the show......

[oasis]

13. Thirty years ago? I can't see George Bush bringing that up in a debate.

[seventhson]

15. It shows a pattern of immoral conduct

ina campaign.

I doubt Bush himself would bring it up. But you can bet that Rove would.

But it is not as if this is totally unknown. It made headlines when it happened and has just mostly since been forgotten or ignored.

The elites get away with a LOT of these types of things.

But, from my point of view, if this is true (if it was a dirty trick) then we DESERVE better.

We deserve someone like Dean who plays by the rules - who is NOT pushpolling or doing fake campaign pressure at 2 am to discredit the other candidates.

Politics is dirty. We all know that. But Kerry was not an adolescent when these events occurred. And there were at least TWO skull members on the fringes of it.

THAT establishes a possible pattern of dirty political tricks conduct that concerns me greatly.

I did not find this story. But it jumped out at me when it was posted. I would have nada if the strory was not based on some solid facts. Kerry's brother and another campaign worker were ARRESTED for breaking into the opposition's building. THAT is really something we should ALL be concerned about.

[blm]

17. What's your judgment on Trippi stealing $200,000 in event tickets from

supporters of his Dem opponent who traveled all day by bus? That was in 84. No problem for you?

[Old and In the Way]

23. Tell me it isn't so blm.

Dean would never hire an ex-felon to run his campaign would he?

Have a link to this?

[seventhson]

24. Link???

then I'll comment.

If true it sucks. But unlike Kerry's Bones advisor, Trippi is new to Dean and fairly new to the campaign.

Kerry's guys who did this are STILL in his campaign thrity years later.

Dean had NO connection to Trippi back then.

I would fire him if it were true and I were Dean, though.

[blm]

40. Actually Dean DID know Trippi then.

Many Dems knew Trippi. This story was pretty famous.

>>>>

In The New Republic (subscribers only, alas) Noam Scheiber recounts an amusing trick by Dean's campaign manager Joe Trippi in the 1980 Democratic primary when he was working for Walter Mondale. After discovering that the campagin of Mondale's rival Cranston had bought up all the tickets to an extremely important fundraising dinner , Trippi hatched a plan:


"They stopped about three miles out the staging area--the Mondale buses coming from Minnesota or wherever they were coming from... A team of Mondale aides, led by Cosgrove, plasters the bus with Cranston paraphernalia--stickers, posters, buttons, everything. Three miles down the road, the bus pulls up to the Cranston tent, where a Mondale/Cranston supporter gets out and tells a real Cranston aide he has 52 people on the bus. The aide looks up at the bus, surely admiring the military-like discipline that has brought a busload of Cranston supporters from "Los Angeles or wherever" out to the middle of Iowa this early in the day, and quietly congratulates himself. He promptly hands over 52 tickets.

And it continues like this, through bus after bus of Mondale supporters: Stop three miles up the highway, lather the bus in Cranston paraphernalia, drive on to the Cranston tent, claim your tickets. And the Cranston campaign just keeps forking them over.... Never does it occur to them that these busloads of supporters aren't the genuine article. At least not until the real Cranston buses start showing up. "Twenty buses pull up, and they're out of tickets," Trippi says, still amused at the spectacle almost 20 years later. "More Cranston buses keep pulling up, and they don't have the tickets anymore." Score one for Walter Mondale.
>>>>>>

[Forkboy]

29. How is that a defense of Kerry?

Both are a problem for me.

[blm]

43. It's just exposing the poster's dismissal of worse charges

against Trippi while proclaiming outrage for this dumb stunt from 30 years ago.

[Forkboy]

48. well that's fair enough

but not all of us excuse trippi or dean...or kerry.though I do think this is pretty much a non issue.If this is the worst people throw at Kerry I wouldn't be too worried.

[Old and In the Way]

55. Whew....

We dodged a bullet on that one.

(wipes profuse sweat from brow)

[Forkboy]

61. passes Old and In the Way a wetnap

sweaty is no good ;-)

[Old and In the Way]

65. Ahhh, thanks!

refreshed and rarin' to go!

[IndianaGreen]

79. Trippi and Kerry are both crooks and they should never be President

Thank you for illustrating that point, blm. I agree with you wholeheartedly, Trippi and Kerry are both crooks and they should never be President.

[progressivebydesign]

35. Post a link to the Trippi thing...

I don't think the rules here allow that kind of drive-by posting. If you have something about Trippi, as it obviously relates to Dean, then you should post a link. Those types of questions, I'm pretty sure, are not allowed on here.

[blm]

41. The story has been posted here many times.

It was in the New Republic. There were several threads here about it.

[Cassandra]

60. Sorry, that's not stealing.

If he'd broken into his rival's HQ and taken the tickets, that would have been stealing (as well as breaking and entering). The tickets were to be given away...and they were. Cranston's people should have had a more organized way of knowing to whom they were giving tickets. Sneaky, but a lot more clever than Kerry's antics.

[blm]

70. That's what you would say to the supporters who traveled for hours

by bus and donated some of that money to buy those tickets?

Those tickets WERE purchased by a campaign and the rival campaign ended up with them through DECEPTION.

You would teach your child that is not stealing?

[oasis]

18. Seventhson, could you rate the possible impact of this story? 1-10.

[seventhson]

22. If it hits the media I would rate it a 9

I do NOT think Americans or New Hampshirites would vote for him if this story is true (i.e. if the facts are not consistent with Kerry's story and it seems very evident that these WERE criminal political dirty tricks))

Combined with the allegations of dirty tricks against Kerry in NH I think it could sink his campaign.

It would only become a factor in the primary if it gets press.

I think it could be a minor factor in the General election (a 2-3 out of ten)

I do NOT think we will get enough facts for it to be a huge factor tomorrow. But I think if it got enough press it could tilt him clearly to second place tomorrow.

[Old and In the Way]

25. Only a 9?

When they tie this to John's smuggling sex slaves to the Zornites on Alpha-Centrix, this will rate a 13.4!

[Uzybone]

26. LMAO

nt

[seventhson]

34. Ohhh, I forgot about that

Thanks for reminding me.

Links?

I could use them.

I do not like to use unsourced rumors.

[Old and In the Way]

39. Are you kidding?

Let you sink my candidate with that information? Not likely. You'll have to do your own award winning research to break this story. I may have told you too much already.

[blm]

44. BWAHAHAHHAHAHAH.......

and then he said........

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seventhson]

36. I do not generally alert on anyone

unless they are violating a rule I think is serious.

Your opinion is that this is not an important story.

I disagree.

The globe saw fit to print it too.

That is life.

[Old and In the Way]

54. If I recall (it was a long time ago),

It almost brought down our government. I believe the investigation uncovered Kerry's handler, a certain CIA operative (oddly enough, another Bonesman) and documents (now in possession of the RNC) conclusively proved that Kerry was a BFEE "Manchurian Candidate". That medal tossing/VVFW thing was strictly cover. Anyway, Hoover was able to put a lid on the whole investigation by blackmailing Tip O'Neil with movies of Tip partying with Ian Paisley in Las Vegas.

I'm looking for the links, I'll post them when I find them

[KC21304]

56. Oh darn, why did you have to give it all away ?

I have a deal with the Enquirer in the works, and I was going to make a bundle. There goes your split.

[seventhson]

You may be old, but you are NOT in the way

THAT is funny!

[Old and In the Way]

76. I'm glad you have a sense of humor Seventhson

:-)

[Abigail147]

28. Oh give me a break.

I am a Dean supporter, but something that happened in 1972?

[progressivebydesign]

33. I hope this isn't Hannity's big suprise against Kerry...

30 years ago? It's a ammoral thing to do in a campaign.. but 30 years ago? I can buy that someone has changed their belief of wrong and right by then. It does disturb me that they broke into a building to do it. A congressional campaign was derailed a few years ago by the dumpster diving of congressional aides to gather info on the opponent. The incident of itself, did not do it, but it added to other subversive campaign activities to affect the race. If Kerry keeps it clean, and no other incidents are unearthed.. then he could ride this out as old news. As long as things don't start to pile up. Like vultures, the media.. once they get wind of this.. will try to bolster their angle. Like Dean's "anger", which no one has actally witnessed. The media liked that angle and searched for ways to bolster that characterization. When the scream speech happened, they easily framed it as an angry outburst. Kerry needs to stay squeaky clean.

If this is Hannity's "bombshell", I don't think it'll fly. People will see it as old news. Hell... if nobody seems to care that the Republicans were stealing Democratic memos on judicial nominees... then I doubt this will make the media rounds. Unless.. like Dean's scream, it's manufactured out of control.

[Cocoa]

53. what was Kerry thinking, breaking into that building!

He could have just used the Skull and Bones master key, which opens every lock in the U.S. D'oh!

[blm]

59. ROTFPIMP.......

Oh geez..........................you did it...a real Depends moment.

[cthrumatrix]

63. that was good....very good

[Nicholas_J]

64. More recently

and of concern, were members of Deans Iowa Campaign staff he tried to infiltrate Kerry's campaign to steal his calling scripts.

Dean fires 2 campaign aides
By Ed Tibbetts

.
Howard Dean’s presidential campaign in Iowa fired two workers Thursday who were accused earlier in the day of trying to infiltrate rival John Kerry’s campaign.
.
In a letter to the Kerry camp, Jeani Murray, Dean’s Iowa campaign manager, said the two were terminated after an investigation prompted by complaints by John Norris, who is running Kerry’s Iowa effort.
.
Norris complained in a letter to Murray earlier in the day that the two men claimed to work for Dean and approached the Massachusetts senator’s Creston, Iowa, office, earlier in the week asking about the operation. Norris said one of the men, Mitch Lawson, admitted Thursday to being employed by Dean and said they were trying to get their hands on “calling scripts.”


http://www.qctimes.com/internal.php?story_id=1022713&t=Nation+%2F+World&c=26,1022713

[seventhson]

66. They did NOT break into the office

I think this is a lot less serious.

[Old and In the Way]

75. But, but, but....that's moral relativism!

A hallmark of cynical Republicans and TV evangelists!

Surely, you aren't suggesting that we crucify Kerry on a misunderstanding that happened in a local race 30 years ago...BUT LET A POTENTIALLY FAR MORE SERIOUS CRIME, OCCURRING JUST DAYS AGO, WHICH COULD EFFECT THE ELECTION OF A PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES....YOU AREN'T SUGGESTING THAT THIS EVIL DEED GO UNPUNISHED, ARE YOU?

Where is your sense of fairplay, Seventhson?

[Old and In the Way]

68. I'm shocked....speechless.

Whoaaaaaaa, the humanity. (starting to faint),,,,quick, smelling salts!.....

Wait a minute....calling scripts? To make Kerry phone calls? Dean operatives?

To show my righteous outrage, I may have to start 20 threads on this subject over the next 24 hours!

[seventhson]

69. They were probably trying to find out what lies were being told about Dean

And that was a smart thing for them to do. Sneaky but NOT illegal as far as I know.

[blm]

71. Yet you are fine with Trippi's actions?

You would teach your child that receiving over $200,000. worth of event tickets that belonged to supporters who traveled hours by bus and ended up being given to rivals through deception is not stealing?

[seventhson]

73. No. If it is true I would fire him. I already said that before.

Dean does not need to be tainted by someone who did this.

I have yet to see a credible link on this at all.

[Old and In the Way]

77. Let's hope Howard's close proximity to Bonesmen at Yale didn't

rub off on him.....

[seventhson]

80. I do

hope that

[IndianaGreen]

78. The Boston Globe story was also posted in the other thread

but it seems that the Kerry supporters are censorship happy when it comes to any negative story about their glorious candidate.