WOULDN'T IT BE REFRESHING IF THE DEMS HAD THE COURAGE TO SAY THIS......

[ulTRAX]

Wouldn't it be refreshing if the Dems had the courage to say the following and MEANT it?

That they believed democracy was key to morally legitimate government. That in order to have a democracy certain conditions were required....

* One person, one vote
* All votes are of equal weight
* No citizen can be disenfranchised of the vote
* The political system MUST include the participation of those who now sit out election
* Majority rules (with constitutional protections for minorities)
* Citizens have the right to vote their conscience and receive some representation in government.
* Citizens have the right to vote their conscience and NOT worry about the so-called "spoiler" effect.

That in order to implement the above they'd push for the following.......

* Some representative legislative bodies must be based upon the principle of proportional representation.
* The EC would be abolished. Presidential elections would be based on a popular vote with some provision for a run-off to insure no one takes office with less than 50% of the vote.
* A reformed constitutional amendment process so our future is not held hostage to a dwindling proportion of the US population. Currently the 12 smallest states that can theoretically block any amendment is now down to 4.5% of the population.
* Vastly increased voter-age participation (VAP) to insure an election outcome is morally legitimate. Remember that Reagan's so-called "landslide" represented a mere 26.6% of the VAP.
* The outlawing of Gerrymandering. Members of the House should be in proportion to a percentage of vote totals. Some states might benefit from multi-seat districts. That means even DEMOCRATIC Gerrymandering is immoral... not just GOP Gerrymandering.
* The Senate might become a national parliament based upon party election so that citizens who favor minority parties can FINALLY get some official representation in government.
* Corporations will be stripped of rights reserved for citizens taking Big Money out of campaigns.

Of course the Democrats wear democracy on their sleeves as the Right wraps itself in the flag.

They have no actual use for it.

So we'll never see such moral courage.

[liberaltrucker]

1. Don't hold your breath

Dems, especially those of the DLC ilk need a cojones transplant:grr:

[ulTRAX]

2. I have no use for the DLC.......... but...........

I think the Democrat's refusal to embrace all but the most superficial democratic reforms clearly predates the formation of the DLC.

We have to face the fact that the problem is institutional.

[Totally Committed]

8. I agree, but...

the DLC took appeasement, gutlessness, and constituent betrayal and made it into an artform.

They see us as nothing more than their personal hive full of worker bees. The little guy will never matter again until integrity and true Democratic Party ideals are back, and this pro-corporate bullshit is OUT.

[ulTRAX]

9. and the Democratic Party cared about democracy prior to the DLC?

Are you implying the Democratic Party cared about democracy PRIOR to the creation of DLC?

If so, where is the evidence?

Where is the evidence that those Progressive Democrats like Dean or Move On care about democracy even now?

The sad truth is that in the US the Democrats and their Progressive wing have NO use for democracy except to delude themselves they are working towards a higher principle when they explicitly support our anti-democratic system and stand in the way of true democratic reform.

[liberaltrucker]

10. A bit testy, eh?

So am I. Problem is, we have to work within the system, and that takes time, unfortunately. The only other option is the unthinkable, and even suggesting THAT would get us banned from DU. I'm just as pissed as you about the direction our country is going. I'd personally love to see a progressive Democracy where universal health care, a mandated living wage, guaranteed day care for any parent who needs it, etc, were the norm. One can dream, I guess. BTW, I'm 51, so there's only so much activism left in me. If you're younger, please don't get discouraged.

[ulTRAX]

11. testy?

We may have to work within the system... but that doesn't mean we have to be suckered into supporting it when the Democratic Party is going the wrong direction. The battle to reform the Constitution may take 50 years... and that's being optimistic.

I think the battle for democracy should start in the states. We need to find a few TRUE Progressives who are willing to change STATE constitutions to permit proportional representation. If we don't push for this paradigm shift then all we'll get are some generic liberals who can get voted out in a few years. Soon 10-20-50 years will go by with no progress. We have to challenge the Democrat establishment and citizens to think about what democracy actually means.

[In Truth We Trust]

3. I won't hold my breath but I will KICK IT

[autorank]

4. Great list. How about: Let All Registered Voters Vote. Count All Votes

You list is great. It's about time we actually ahve a democracy in thiscountry. What a novel idea. You'd think that the DEMOCRATS would support this. You would also think that the fundamental right of any democracy would be that all entitled to vote are afforded the opportunity to vote and that all votes cast, counted, and tabulated in a way that is fully open to audit and inspection. What a concept!

A comprehensive explanation of election fraud--text and key links

or try...

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0507/S00238.htm

[ulTRAX]

5. Dems don't value democracy......

The Democratic Party... and even most Progressive groups, don't give a damn about democracy. But they certainly want to wrap themselves in a high sounding principle. There's Dean's Democracy For America.... MoveOn has Operation Democracy, Progressive Democrats claim they want democracy, Democracy Cell and its 5 minutes a day to democracy. I could go on. They care so little about democracy they don't even bother to define democratic principles all the time supporting our anti-democratic system.

It's as Orwellian as any bullshit the Right has come up with.

[Toots]

6. The political system MUST include the participation of those who now sit

So the Democratic party must now Dictate. I am very much against such a thing as this. People are ignorant in America. Why would you wish for an uninformed person to make a vital choice in how government should be managed and when you start dictating that people must vote you move us away from a Free society. Instead go for Vote by Mail where everyone gets a month in their own hmes to decide the issues after seeing them on the ballot and doing some basic research before voting. then the mailman comes along and picks up your ballot so you never have to leave the house. You don't need to find a parking place or stand in a long line or run into some individual you have been avoiding or a number of reasons why people don't bother to go to the polls. Move the polls to your own house and turnout will skyrocket.

[ulTRAX]

7. What's the REAL evil here?

What's the REAL evil here?

If the goal is morally legitimate government and democracy is the method, then we can't go on with Presidents who can change US history for the worst getting into office with the approval of mere 26% of the voting age population.

There's any number of possible solutions. There could be a paid voting holiday, vote by mail, no-excuse voting, none-of-the-above voting....

We could move to a more responsive political system such as proportional representation where citizens can vote their conscience and be guaranteed some representation instead of fearing they will split the "majority" and elect a minority candidate.

We insist that citizens pay taxes as the price of government. I think we extended the idea of citizenship to include voting. After all unless we do the idea that government derives its JUST powers from the CONSENT of the governed is just a sick joke.