Why so little discussion on CAFTA?

[ibegurpard]

I'm hoping it's because most people reacted the same way I did...resignation. Totally depressed about it and figured it would pass so it's not something I particularly enjoy focusing on.
Is that it or are people really not that concerned about it?

[redqueen]

1. I really doubt that it's because people aren't that concerned.

At least I hope not...

[Parche]

3. cafta

I have not read up too much on it

But anything that Bush and Cheney have to go go Congress
and beg for their votes, or blackmail them, sounds like
something that is not good for America

[redqueen]

8. Do read some...

the job market in this country is about to start sliding downhill even faster.

[Parche]

15. cafta

What are the points against it?

[redqueen]

18. Read here:

http://zmagsite.zmag.org/JulAug2005/rasmus0705.html

[Nikki Stone 1]

2. There has been talk about it here

But people are so busy fighting over who is running in 08 or putting up yet more polls that CAFTA threads tended to get crowded out.

[ibegurpard]

5. Yes, I know...I've seen it

But it PASSED yesterday. I would've expected to see talk of nothing else. And yet, the few threads about it drop with few replies.

[NorCalDem]

10. Not only did it pass

but it did so by 2 votes in a midnight vote. It appears as if our elected representatives had no interest in letting us observe the vote on CSPAN....

[Sapphire Blue]

28. And the Chair slammed down the gavel before the last 2 reps voted.

As I posted before...

The American people were given the Congressional finger yesterday courtesy of Bush/Cheney's strong-arm Mafia-like tactics. This wasn't an attack against Democrats, not an attack against Republicans, but an attack against all Americans... and an attack against human rights.

Yeah, Georgie, you've got lots of muscle right now, and you're flexing it, but, you know what? Eventually a bully is always seen for what he is, and those who've been duped walk away from him. Georgie, the eyes of America are opening, and many of your formerly conned followers are beginning to see your true ugliness.

You can open up concentration camps right now, throw us all in them, but you still won't win... you will never conquer our spirits.

FUCK YOU GEORGE W BUSH. I SPIT ON YOU.

[Nikki Stone 1]

11. There was lots of outrage last night and a whole bunch of theads

when it passed by two votes. A lot of us didn't say much, but we watched the debate or, in my case, watched the reporting by DUers on several threads. By 9:00 PT, the top threads were CAFTA related.

I agree that there should be more discussion today. Part of the issue is that those who kept the vigil last night are tired. Part of it is the sheer disgust at our own 15 turncoat Dems, any two of whom could have sunk this rotten bill. But a big part of it is, I think, that people simply don't understand CAFTA and its consequences are not easy to predict. People tend to get het up on issues that affect their day to day lives, and these large trade agreements seem very far out of the realm of daily life. The irony is that these agreements will actually SHAPE our lives as workers over the next century.

If you had a primer on CAFTA--something easy to digest--maybe people would feel more able to comment.

[sunwyn]

4. "Why so little discussion on CAFTA?"

This is my first post....personally, I am OUTRAGED


jANET

[tnlefty]

14. Welcome to DU, sunwyn!!

Outraged here, too. :hi:

[redqueen]

17. Welcome to DU!

:hi:

:bounce:

[sunwyn]

20. Welcome to DU

Thanks for the welcome....I spent most of my workday informing those I work with (at a manufacturing warehouse) about CAFTA and what it might mean for the US. The apathy has made me more furious. What the hell is wrong with people?

[redqueen]

24. It's easier to live in your own reality.

People seem to not *want* to care, because that means they might have to actually *do* something. It's much easier to just go back to sleep... back to living in bush's reality. If one is determined to be lazy - both physically and intellectually - there's little anyone else can do to change them.

Nader may have been right that it'll take a majority of such lazy Americans being *personally* affected by these policies before they'll stop being such dozy morans.

Hope hanging out here helps you to handle the apathy in the "real world"...I know it's helped me to do so. :)

[sunwyn]

25. It's easier to live in your own reality

It has helped me tremendously to find there are some folks who give sh*t. I'm looking forward to my Sunday off so I can read this site. It is now my homepage...:)

[xxqqqzme]

31. Warning - this site is

addictive... I spend waaaay too much time here but it is where I get all my news.......Well, here & Jon Stewart.

[newyawker99]

26. Hi sunwyn!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[union_maid]

6. Well, we were up til the vote was done last night

There were a lot of threads while it was going on. Anyone who didn't have it on TV could follow the vote and there was plenty of commentary as well. It was pretty intense.

Now, however, it's a done deal. The Democrats who voted for it will be hearing more about it from DUers and likeminded people. The Republicans who voted for it are just acting like Republicans act. They're the enemy of working people everywhere, so they're doing their thing.

[Lisaben2619]

7. Because many Democrats here must be ashamed.

This could have beem stopped in the Senate by the Dems.

Punish them!!!!
http://workinglife.typepad.com/daily_blog/2005/07/punish_the_caft.html

[Moochy]

9. CAFTA reaction?

Well for starters, 2400 pages of law is a challenge to comprehension. If you are a corporate transnational citizen, and have assets spread around in offshore havens and seek to privatize assets being mismanaged by national governments, its swell!

With fingergate raging, I can understand why it seems like CAFTA is currently being ignored, but the whole Sirota threads are related, since he's calling out the corporate neolibs who are diluting the democratic message's potency by acting like Zell Miller.

Like Nafta, CAFTA undermines national sovereignty and will allow for some pretty heinous trans-national legal maneuvers that once ratified by the member states, will compel local towns and states to comply with the decisions of CAFTA courts in conflicts between local governments and private investment capital.

As an aside, I am beginning to think that a winning congressional strategy leading up to 2006 would be to engage in the most parliamentary maneuvers possible including but not limited to filibustering, to try and prevent as much legislative action that Republicans could get passed.

[hang a left]

12. For me resignation as well.

I have resigned myself to the fact the facists will pass any legislation that they want. Up next the new and improved permanent Patriot Act.

[GreenPartyVoter]

13. I know I am freaking depressed. Until we fix the election system, and

I don't just mean transparency and paper trails but these other overhauls http://timeforachange.bluelemur.com/electionreform.htm , we won't be able to do squat about policy making.

Let's face it a better election system leads to better officials, and better officials leads to better policies.

[SCDem]

16. Does anyone have a link for the total vote count

Our local dem party is hosting a table and a local summer festival and we plan on having a list of the Repub Reps in our state who voted for CAFTA we thought that would be of interest to swing or undecided voters.

[Coexist]

19. Check GD - lots of discssions - including a potential PROBLEM w/the vote

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4211316

[ulysses]

21. new thread this morning

if I may be so bold...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4218171

[Mass]

22. There's be plenty of discussion on CAFTA..\nt

[DrGonzoLives]

23. Well, at the moment

There ain't a lot we can do - it's passed Congress, and Bushie will sign it.

What we need to do is bank this for the 2006 midterms. CAFTA has virtually ZERO support in this country for those who aren't bankers, economists or CEOs.

[ibegurpard]

30. How do we make this an issue?

Particularly considering the Republican defections on it paired with the Democrats who voted yes? (the Senate is the worst...there are a number of high profile, supposedly progressive senators who voted for this and there's no way the power-brokers are going to endanger them by making an issue of CAFTA).

[election_2004]

27. What we need to do is....

...work on a grassroots "game plan" or "blueprint" for restructuring it, so that the next Democratic president can be successful in actually changing the parts of it that hurt people.

That involves going to bat for Democratic Senate candidates in PA, MO, MT, and elsewhere (including Governors) in the 2006 midterms....while keeping the discussion alive about 2008 the entire time, so that the DLC doesn't lay all the groundwork to guarantee the nomination to a bad candidate at the top of the ticket by the time it's too late.

[Rambis]

29. Like everything else it is so Heinous...

I can't react anymore it is just another turd in the mountain of turds this administration lets fly from Olympus.

[GracieM]

32. Get's lost among the DLC threads...

[meganmonkey]

33. Good question

Now that it passed, it seems a hot topic - the thread in LBN announcing the results from the midnight vote is still on the first page of the forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1659613&mesg_id=1659613

I started a few threads about it earlier in various forums but it seems most people didn't think it was a priority, what with Rove/Roberts/Other stuff...

I really thought we had a chance of beating it. All the arm-twisting at the last second really pissed me off.

:shrug:

[dean_dem]

34. Well, for starters...

it's been buried in the back of my local newspaper for the past two weeks.

But I think that a lot of it has to do with it being in some respects a pretty difficult and exhausting topic to wade through. Of course, the neoliberal pro-CAFTA economists seem determined to make the issue sound as convoluted as possible. I guess widespread public ignorance means nobody will know what they're up to.

[DemBones DemBones]

35. I've gotten some good info about the evils of CAFTA

from Pax Christi and Catholics for Faithful Citizenship.

For example:

The U.S. Bishops, Latin American Bishops, faith-based NGOs and religious communities in the U.S. and Central America have urged Congress, and all Catholics, to evaluate CAFTA with moral criteria. That means looking at ways CAFTA will place in jeopardy Central America’s rural farmers, who are already among the most poor globally; looking at how CAFTA threatens to destroy access to affordable generic medicines; how it fails to ensure the rights of workers; and how it will affect jobs in the U.S., particularly in the agriculture and labor sector. Looking at CAFTA from a moral criteria also requires us to examine why those most supportive of this trade agreement have failed to take into consideration the input from civil society in Central America.


Given this lens by which our Catholic faith calls us to look at trade agreements like CAFTA, it is clear that CAFTA is a life issue. And given this lens, it is clear that support for CAFTA in its current form is inconsistent with the social teachings of our Church, and with efforts to build a culture of life.

(above from Pax Christi)


CAFTA is a death sentence for people with HIV/AIDS. If passed by Congress, The Central American Free Trade Agreement would make it much harder for the 275,000 HIV-infected people in the region to get access to the medicines they need to live. Thousands of lives are at stake.

From a moral perspective, it is clear that CAFTA fails John Paul II’s test that those who can intervene to safeguard the dignity of the person must do so. Instead, CAFTA intervenes to preserve the profits of pharmaceuticals, at the expense of human life itself.

(above from CFFC)


It's an issue of life and death and the Republicans, and quite a few Dems, showed how little life means to them.