We Can't Just BURY Kerry's Record

[dreissig]

Our options about Kerry's military record include the following:

• pretend that questions don't exist
• demand that threads that acknowledge these questions be locked
• make an attempt to answer these questions ourselves
• replace lame answers with something more believable

We don't have the option of ignoring the anomalies in Kerry's military history. Why did Kerry go back to Vietnam if he was only going to stay there three months? And why, after his short tour, did the Navy seemingly reward him with a plum assignment in Brooklyn?

I haven't even gotten into questions about whether Kerry's medals were fully earned or not. Did Kerry kill an already-wounded man who was not a threat to him? Because the Navy gave him a Silver Star for that action, questions about it will not go away. These questions did not cost him re-election among Massachusetts voters, but they may have great resonance among voters in less-liberal areas.

We're not going to solve these problems by ignoring them. It's not about John Kerry; it's about getting a Democrat in the White House.

[sangh0]

1. You left out something!

What about Skull and Bones?

[dreissig]

10. Skull & Bones

Finding a Bones connection isn't necessary to raise questions about some of the personnel actions favoring John Kerry. The fact that I can't specifically document a phone call between high-ranking insiders and Kerry's commanding officers doesn't remove the appearance that something like that occurred.

Voters don't have to presume innocence - an election is not a trial. Kerry was healthy and able-bodied when he was reassigned to a soft job in Brooklyn. The Navy doesn't reward officers who exploit loopholes to get out of combat.

There is at least the appearance of something irregular and improper here. If we don't deal with these questions, they don't go away.

[sangh0]

18. uh-huh

fascinating stuff! Just fascinating!

[dreissig]

27. Happens All The Time

Does it surprise, shock, astonish or appall you that somebody with connections might exploit them to gain favors in the military? Personally, I tend to shrug it off. I'm not surprised at what Kerry did, or appears to have done. Happens all the time!

[sallyseven]

2. I don't see a problem with Kerry

He is a fine upstanding person.

[Feanorcurufinwe]

3. .

.

[dreissig]

20. Lies and Inventions

Getting out of Vietnam after only three months is really irregular. There has to be a justification for it. There's an obvious question why did Kerry's commanding officer sign Kerry's petition to get out early?

Surely you can't be shocked at the suggestion that a Fair-Haired Boy might be awarded medals that lesser mortals would not have received. I suppose the underlying issue here is whether Kerry was a Fair-Haired Boy.

What I'm saying here is that Kerry's stories about Vietnam are um, problematic. You can persuade the moderator to lock this thread, but that doesn't dispose of the essential problem. Kerry's running for office based on a not-entirely-plausible war record. Wanna ignore it? That won't help.

[HereSince1628]

49. I'm sad to see any veteran have his service questioned this way

Disclaimer: I am a Dean supporter and a Vietnam Veteran.

Regarding early departure from Vietnam, my understanding is that he was wounded 3 times. It is my understanding that in the Navy at that time, if your were wounded 3 times you could request reassignment--outside of Vietnam. Kerry requested; his request was granted. I found that story on the web months ago, I suspect if you do some googling or nexus searching you can find it, too.

With respect to medals, military awards are made through a nomination that usually begins with a superior in the chain of command. Not every deserving soldier gets a nomination, sometimes people who might be more deserving get over looked.

I am dumbfounded by an inquiry that begins with the supposition that Kerry didn't deserve his recognition.

[blm]

4. Because those planted questions had their origin in the Nixon white house.

It's on the tapes. They wanted to paint Kerry as a "phony"....Colson countered with vet groups and vets that would question Kerry's every word.

YOU want to promote that work, go ahead. But, savvy Dems have been familiar with these disinfo campaigns sine the early 70s.

[blm]

6. Why don't you read Tour Of Duty and then judge?

From Barnes and Noble:

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?AR=Y&cds2Pid=371&ean=9780060565237

>>>>>>>
John Kerry enlisted in the Navy in February 1966, months before he graduated from Yale. In December 1967 Ensign Kerry was assigned to the frigate U.S.S. Gridley; after five months of service in the Pacific, with a brief stop in Vietnam, he returned to the United States and underwent training to command a Swift boat, a small craft deployed in Vietnam's rivers. In June 1968 Kerry was promoted to lieutenant (junior grade), and by the end of that year he was back in Vietnam, where he commanded, over time, two Swift boats. Throughout Tour of Duty Brinkley deftly deals with such explosive issues as U.S. atrocities in Vietnam and the bombing of Cambodia. In a series of unforgettable combat-action sequences, he recounts how Kerry won the Purple Heart three times for wounds suffered in action and was awarded the Bronze Star and the Navy’s Silver Star for gallantry in action.

When Kerry returned from Southeast Asia, he joined the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), becoming a prominent antiwar spokesperson. He challenged the Nixon administration on Capitol Hill with the antiwar movement cheering him on. As Kerry's public popularity soared in April-May 1971, the FBI considered him a subversive. Brinkley -- using new information acquired from the recently released Nixon tapes -- reveals how White House aides Charles Colson and H. R. Haldeman tried to discredit Kerry. Refusing to be intimidated, Kerry started running for public office, eventually becoming a U.S. senator from Massachusetts. But he never forgot his fallen comrades. Working with his friend Senator John McCain, he returned to Vietnam numerous times looking for MIAs and POWs. By the time Bill Clinton was elected president in 1992, Kerry was the leading proponent of "normalization" of relations with Vietnam. When President Clinton officially recognized Vietnam in 1995, Kerry's three-decade-long tour of duty had at long last ended.

[bigtree]

17. Brinkley talks to NPR about Tour of Duty

Talks about eight of John's buddies killed in Vietnam.

http://www.npr.org/features/feature.php?wfId=1593628

[TLM]

8. You mean the kind of phony who would do something like

lie about throwing his metals over the white house fence?

[blm]

12. No. Like someone who pretends to not understand the use of "We"

as the collective "we".....so they plaant stories that are meant to make Kerry sound like he lied when he didn't.

[MaineDem]

5. Were you around then?

THe Navy allowed guys with three combat wounds to go stateside. I'm telling you, if it had been me I would have taken that opportunity in a heartbeat.

Anyhow, I'm sure this thread will be locked like your previous one.

[sallyseven]

7. I got yelled at by the administrators

of DU for not being nice to some people. I read this question a second time and wonder how they can justify allowing this to last as long as it has on here. Not paying attention I guess.

[dreissig]

13. Muzzling Me Is Not the Answer

There's a big problem with Kerry's military record. This problem does not go away because DU moderators lock threads discussing it. I do not create the problem by acknowledging it. And you do not solve the problem by muzzling me.

[Gman]

30. I don't know what your problem with Kerry's military record is

but as long as Kerry has been around there has never been any question about the legitimacy of Kerry's military record.

Why are you bringing this up now? Why didn't this become an issue (assuming it is an issue) in 1988? Huh? Or did you know he ran in 1988? What about the multiple times he ran for reelection to the Senate?

I find it strange that the first time I saw this come up was a few days ago on FR.

[dreissig]

39. Why Now?

Well, up until now Kerry wasn't the front runner for the Democratic nomination. It makes a difference!

The questions about Kerry's military record almost cost him re-election to the Senate. Fortunately for him, Massachusetts voters aren't as keen on the issue as voters are in states like say, New Mexico, Wisconsin or Ohio.

Kerry's somewhat implausible military record is being challenged for an additional reason: because he makes a big deal of it. Besides, what Kerry did 30 years ago informs us about his character and his trustworthiness.

[TLM]

9. How many other folks got 3 PH in 4 months....

with only a total of two days down time?

[dreissig]

11. Locking Threads

Locking a thread doesn't solve the underlying problem. I say Kerry's boat is taking on water, you say it's not. Muzzling discussion of the issue doesn't make it go away.

Houston, we have a problem.

[bigtree]

21. Criteria for a Purple Heart

The following criteria governs award of the Purple Heart in ALL branches of service, not just the United States Army.

SEC. 571. PURPLE HEART TO BE AWARDED ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE ARMED FORCES.


(a) IN GENERAL.--(1) Chapter 57 of title 10, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

"§ 1131. Purple Heart: limitation to members of the armed forces

"The decoration known as the Purple Heart (authorized to be awarded pursuant to Executive Order 11016) may only be awarded to a person who is a member of the armed forces at the time the person is killed or wounded under circumstances otherwise qualifying that person for award of the Purple Heart.".

(2) The table of sections at the beginning of such chapter is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

"1131. Purple Heart: limitation to members of the armed forces.".

(b) EFFECTIVE DATE.--Section 1131 of title 10, United States Code, as added by subsection (a), shall apply with respect to persons who are killed or wounded after the end of the 180-day period beginning on (18 Nov 1997) the date of the enactment of this Act.



2-8. Purple Heart

The Purple Heart was established by General George Washington, at Newburgh, New York, on 7 August 1782, during the Revolutionary War. It was reestablished by the President of the United States per War Department General Orders 3, 1932 and is currently awarded pursuant to Executive Order 11016, 25 April 1962, Executive Order 12464, 23 February 1984 and Public Law 98-525, 19 October 1984.

a. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force or any civilian national of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded
(1) In any action against an enemy of the United States.

(2) In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged.

(3) While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

(4) As a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces.

(S) As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force.

(6) After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed Services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack.

(7) After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force.

b. While clearly an individual decoration, the Purple Heart differs from all other decorations in that an individual is not "recommended" for the decoration; rather he or she is entitled to it upon meeting specific criteria.

(1) A Purple Heart is authorized for the first wound suffered under conditions indicated above, but for each subsequent award an Oak Leaf Cluster will be awarded to be worn on the medal or ribbon. Not more than one award will be made for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant or from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent.

(2) A wound is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above A physical lesion is not required, however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record.

(3) When contemplating an award of this decoration, the key issue that commanders must take into consideration is the degree to which the enemy caused the injury. The fact that the proposed recipient was participating in direct or indirect combat operations is a necessary prerequisite, but is not sole justification for award.

(4) Examples of enemy-related injuries which clearly justify award of the Purple Heart are as follows:

(a) Injury caused by enemy bullet, shrapnel, or other projectile created by enemy action.

(b) Injury caused by enemy placed mine or trap.

(c) Injury caused by enemy released chemical, biological or nuclear agent.

(d) Injury caused by vehicle or aircraft accident resulting from enemy fire.

(e) Concussion injuries caused as a result of enemy generated explosions.

(5) Examples of injuries or wounds which clearly do not qualify for award of the Purple Heart are as follows:

(a) Frostbite or trench foot injuries.

(b) Heat stroke.

(c) Food poisoning not caused by enemy agents.

(d) Chemical, biological, or nuclear agents not released by the enemy.

(e) Battle fatigue.

(f) Disease not directly caused by enemy agents.

(g) Accidents, to include explosive, aircraft, vehicular, and other accidental wounding not related to or caused by enemy action.

(h) Self-inflicted wounds, except when in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence.

(i) Post traumatic stress disorders.

(j) Jump injuries not caused by enemy action.

(6) It is not intended that such a strict interpretation of the requirement for the wound or injury to be caused by direct result of hostile action be taken that it would preclude the award being made to deserving personnel. Commanders must also take into consideration, the circumstances surrounding an injury, even if it appears to meet the criteria. Note the following examples:

(a) In case such as an individual injured while making a parachute landing from an aircraft that had been brought down enemy fire; or, an individual injured as a result of a vehicle accident caused by enemy fire, the decision will be made in favor of the individual and the award will be made.

(b) Individuals wounded or killed as a result of "friendly fire" in the "heat of battle" will be awarded the Purple Heart as long as the "friendly" projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment.

(c) Individuals injured as a result of their own negligence; for example, driving or walking through an unauthorized area known to have been mined or placed off limits or searching for or picking up unexploded munitions as war souvenirs, will not be awarded the Purple Heart as they clearly were not injured as a result of enemy action, but rather by their own negligence.

c. A Purple Heart will be issued to the next of kin of each person entitled to a posthumous award. Issue will be made automatically by the Commanding General, PERSCOM, upon receiving a report of death indicating entitlement.

d. Upon written application to Commander, ARPERCEN, ATIN.- DAR-P-VSEA, 9700 Page Boulevard, St. Louis, MO 63132-5200, award may be made to any member of the Army, who during World War 1, was awarded a Meritorious Service Citation Certificate signed by the Commander in Chief, American Expeditionary Forces, or who was authorized to wear wound chevrons. Posthumous awards to personnel who were killed or died of wounds after 5 April 1917 will be made to the appropriate next of kin upon application to the Commanding General, PERSCOM.

e. Any member of the Army who was awarded the Purple Heart for meritorious achievement or service, as opposed to wounds received in action, between 7 December 1941 and 22 September 1943, may apply for award of an appropriate decoration instead of the Purple Heart.

f. For those who became Prisoners of War after 25 April 1962, the Purple Heart will be awarded to individuals wounded while prisoners of foreign forces, upon submission by the individual to the Department of the U.S. Army of an affidavit that is supported by a statement from a witness, if this is possible. Documentation and inquiries Should be directed to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPCPDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471.

g. Any member of the U.S. Army who believes that he or she is eligible for the Purple Heart, but through unusual circumstances no award was made, may submit an application through military channels, to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPC-PDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471. Application will include complete documentation, to include evidence of medical treatment, pertaining to the wound.



PUBLIC LAW 104-106 - FEB. 10, 1996


SEC. 621. AWARD OF PURPLE HEART TO PERSONS WOUNDED WHILE HELD AS PRISONERS OF WAR BEFORE APRIL 2G, 1962.

(a) AWARD OF PURPLE HEART.—For purposes of the award of the Purple Heart, the Secretary concerned (as defined in section 101 of title 10, United States Code) shall treat a former prisoner of war who was wounded before April 25, 1962, while held as a prisoner of war (or while being taken captive) in the same manner as a former prisoner of war who is wounded on or after that date while held as a prisoner of war (or while being taken captive).
(b) STANDARDS FOR AWARD.—An award of the Purple Heart under subsection (a) shall be made in accordance with the standards in effect on the date of the enactment of this Act for the award of the Purple Heart to persons wounded on or after April 25, 1962.

(C) ELIGIBLE FORMER PRISONERS OF WAR.—A person shall be considered to be a former prisoner of war for purposes of this section if the person is eligible for the prisoner-of-war meda1 under section 1128 of title 10, United States Code.

[dreissig]

41. Criteria for an Early Out

What's relevant here is Kerry's petition for an early return from combat. When boarding the plane back to the United States, Kerry was healthy, fit, and able-bodied. Kerry has to compare that record to guys who had to had to pull their whole tour, the ordinary common folk who are voting in the November election.

I think it's a difficult sales job to convince people that Kerry's connections had nothing to do with it. Why not candidly admit it? Kerry's early out from Vietnam is a negative.

[Poseidon]

14. Shameful!

Thiat is just shameful! Do you people know ANYTHING about military protocol? :shrug: How can you demean a man's service record when we lost 58,000 boys in Vietnam? Kerry was shot 3 times, and he was afforded the opportunity to go home. Nothing wrong with that. At least he went. Unlike some people...

[dreissig]

26. Kerry Was Not Shot

Kerry was not shot. He was awarded the Purple Heart three times for injuries that were not disabling.

A healthy, fit, able-bodied and sun-tanned John Kerry boarded the plane back to the States after only three months in combat. It doesn't look good, especially now, with so many of our troops who'd love to come home from Iraq. How'd he manage that? Did he pull strings?

[Poseidon]

31. Hah

It looks better than Howard Dean skiing in Colorado though, eh? :)

[TLM]

37. Typical... can't defend Kerry, so attack Dean.

Dean got a medical deferment for a permanent disability... Kerry got out on a technicality using injuries so minor that he had no down time and no listing as unfit for duty.

Yet only one of them is trying to run as a war hero.

[KFC]

15. These questions would only resonate with hard-core freepers

And they wouldn't vote for any Democrat, anyway.

The fact of the matter remains that Kerry is a decorated soldier who risked his life in combat. Compare that record to AWOL Bush and see who comes out on top.

I think it would be hilarious if Bush were to question Kerry's military record. I don't think even Bush is that stupid.

[sangh0]

19. "I don't think even Bush is that stupid"

That doesn't mean some DUer's aren't

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

46. Logic escapes many here at DU

Like Bush is going to bring up Kerry's military record.

That'll happen.

[WiseMen]

16. 6 Years is a Short Tour? Very Trustworty post!

[dreissig]

22. Three Months

Kerry's tour in Vietnam was three months.

[sandnsea]

24. He had 2 tours

It's sick that people would do this, just absolutely sick.

[Poseidon]

25. I agree

These people are shameful.

From my post above:

"Thiat is just shameful! Do you people know ANYTHING about military protocol? How can you demean a man's service record when we lost 58,000 boys in Vietnam? Kerry was shot 3 times, and he was afforded the opportunity to go home. Nothing wrong with that. At least he went. Unlike some people..."

[TLM]

35. Kerry was NEVER shot...

ANd the deaths of 58k does not change the facts of Kerry's situation.

[dreissig]

52. Shameful

Do you understand that we have to compete for votes? If people won't buy what we're selling, we have to figure out what we need to do about it.

Kerry's war record is uh, problematic. We need to clean it up! Tell me why Kerry went back to Vietnam only to leave after three months. Why is the citation for his Silver Star at odds with the agreed-upon facts?

Questions like this don't go away. People who compete with us for the allegiance of voters will continue to ask questions like these. We shouldn't be caught off guard when it happens, because it will.

[TLM]

33. A tour was 1 year....

Kerry was on a ship for 6 months, then came back to train for the river boat. Then went back and was in combat on the river for 4 months before gettign 3 purple hearts and transfering out of combat.

That's a total of 10 months... not even one full tour and sure as hell not a full combat tour, let alone 2.

[WiseMen]

48. This is just citing Nixon slime attacks on Kerry. I guess that says ....

[bearfartinthewoods]

59. then cite the truth!

if this stuff isn't true, there has been plenty of time to debunk it since nixon. if this stuff is lies, post the truth.

[WiseMen]

60. How many years of service to get respect from the patriot TLM?

John Kerry enlisted in the Navy in February 1966, months before he graduated from Yale. In December 1967 Ensign Kerry was assigned to the frigate U.S.S. Gridley; after five months of service in the Pacific he returned to the United States and underwent training to command a Swift boat, a small craft deployed in Vietnam's rivers. In June 1968 Kerry was promoted to lieutenant (junior grade), and by the end of that year he was back in Vietnam, where he commanded, over time, two Swift boats.


When he returned from Vietnam in April 1969, having won early transfer out of the conflict because of his three Purple Hearts, Kerry was still in military and was assigned service as an admiral's aide.

I don't know when his second tour ended, but he clearly spent several year in the military.

I am curious as to how many years of military service one has to
volunteer for before you can get respect from TLM for serving your country.

[dreissig]

43. Kerry's First "Tour"

Kerry's first tour was on a blue-water ship so far off the coast that while he was technically in Vietnam, he might just as well have been in the Caribbean.

Kerry's stories seem to crumble when you examine them. He has a problem with the truth. As another example, Kerry was so opposed to the IWR that he voted for it. (Credit George Bush with that line.)

[WiseMen]

50. And Which beach did you serve on? You are sliming 95% of servicemen

who operate off carriers, ships or the airforce, and most who have
fought in war for the past 40 years.

[dreissig]

56. Not Sliming Anyone

Kerry's service was honorable, and I didn't say it wasn't. He had a few more options than the rest of us, that's all. He's no worse than Gore or Quayle or any other rich man's son.

John Kerry, honorable dude. No question about it.

[WiseMen]

29. Would you bet your life on that. Our would you prefer to do the library.

[Qutzupalotl]

23. Speculation regarding medals

I haven't even gotten into questions about whether Kerry's medals were fully earned or not. Did Kerry kill an already-wounded man who was not a threat to him?

I wasn't there, but I can think of a scenario that makes this a non-issue. The already-wounded man was still holding a weapon, correct? If his back was turned to Kerry, how do we know that the man wasn't stalking another American soldier in front of him? Certainly if he was, that fact would exonerate Kerry. He may have saved a fellow soldier's life by that action.

At any rate, trying to second-guess him 30 years later is useless. If you want to criticize him, stick to what he did as a Senator.

[dreissig]

34. Second-Guessing

I'm not second-guessing what Kerry did, only speculating whether the Silver Star was fully earned. The citation is somewhat puffed up, given the facts that have come out in interviews with Kerry and with his crew.

With utter disregard for his own safety...he personally led a landing party ashore in pursuit of the enemy. His extraordinary daring and personal courage in attacking a numerically superior force in the face of intense fire were responsible for the highly successful mission

What actually happened was one guy chasing one sniper. He was not under intense fire, he ran after a guy whose shoulder weapon had misfired. Kerry caught up to the guy and shot him. These are the plain facts of the incident as it occurred. How does it rate a Silver Star? You tell me.

[Qutzupalotl]

51. I'd rather let the military decide who deserves medals.

Like I said, I wasn't there. No way can I put myself in his shoes 30 years after the fact and half a world away.

[dreissig]

54. Military Awards

The criteria for military awards and decorations are published in regulations manuals just as everything else is. As a practical matter, the process is mistake-prone and subject to manipulation. That's not a surprise! Everything in the military is mistake-prong and subject to manipulation. Command influence has a lot of bearing on who gets acknowledged and who doesn't. Don't be shocked by the idea that Golden Boys get medals that other guys don't.

[emulatorloo]

28. Baseless Speculative Flamebait - Mods please delete n/t

[dreissig]

36. Do Not Suppress Discussion of Real Issues

There is a problem with Kerry's military record. It nearly cost him re-election against Weld in Massachusetts, a state in which people don't care quite as intensely about personal military records as people do in swing states that we Democrats must win.

It's an important issue for DU. Do not suppress it because it makes some people uncomfortable. It won't go away because DU moderators can lock a thread.

[Poseidon]

32. Well

Kerry's service in Vietnam, short as it may have been, was still longer than Dean's vietnam service, or Bush's vietnam service.

[TLM]

38. a weak defense since Dean is not trying to run as a war hero...

But it is telling that the only defense folks can come up with for Kerry's actions... is to attack Dean.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zulchzulu]

42. What are your sources for these accusations?

Tell me they are not from right-wing publications...

Kerry has had people who served with him give testimony to what happened while he served honorably in Viet Nam. Are they liars?

[dreissig]

45. Kerry Served Honorably

Kerry did indeed serve honorably in Vietnam, no question about it. He just bugged out at the earliest opportunity, and who can blame him? All these rich men's sons, they aren't stuck like the rest of us. Kerry, Bush, Gore, Quayle ... they all had options unavailable to the rest of us.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

44. An absolute non-issue

As pointed out above, even Bush wouldn't be so stupid to question Kerry's record.

How would it look?

An AWOL non-combat reservist nit-picking the record of a decorated combat soldier?

Come on. This is not even close to being a problem for Kerry.

[dreissig]

47. Wishful Thinking

This issue was used against Kerry in his tough re-election fight against William Weld, and Weld nearly defeated him. The issue will have even more potency in places where military records are important to voters, even more important than they are to Massachusetts voters.

It's true that Bush himself can't compare military records one-on-one against Kerry. But Kerry's implausible record - the early out, the questionable awards, his later association with people who threw their medals back - give Kerry negatives among people who'd otherwise be favorably impressed.

It's a legitimate issue, one that Democrats ought to address.

[HalfManHalfBiscuit]

55. Bullshit

Kerry's military record was one of the reasons he beat Weld.

http://www.s-t.com/daily/03-96/03-27-96/9weld.htm

"Gov. Weld eventually exhausted his appeals and was drafted, only to be discharged after he failed a physical because of a bad back. He still endures criticism because he plays squash three times a week.
Gov. Weld, however, is nothing but respectful when asked about the differences in the men's records.
"Senator Kerry has a distinguished military record and he has a right to be proud of it," Gov. Weld said in December."

Any opponent who nit-picks his military record will look worse than petty. Especially Bush. And that is what will count in the general election.

Someone looking to vote for Bush won't be justifying their vote using Bush's superior military record.

[dreissig]

58. Worse Than Petty

If Kerry gets the nomination, rest assured that the Republicans will be clueless about how to use the implausible parts of Kerry's military record against him.

Karl Rove is a high minded fellow. He won't go into say, Ohio, and make suggestions that Kerry's war records are less than he claims they are. Nah, Karl wouldn't call Kerry a liar.

[Snivi Yllom]

53. what do you mean we sucka?

I am not sticking my fingers in my ears LALALALALLALALALALALALA!

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dreissig]

61. Creepy Insinuations

Creep insinuations are the very stuff of politics, especially in hotly contested states with lots of electoral votes. How about Ohio?

Kerry needs to get his story straight. Don't assume that the Republicans won't exploit an obvious weakness like Kerry's early out from Vietnam.

[A-Schwarzenegger]

62. Oh, you're playing Devil's Advocate!

Why didn't you say so. I get it now.
Well, your brilliant campaign to win
supporters for Kerry through reverse
psychology is working.

[KFC]

63. Quite Deluded

Let's see:

Kerry spent at least 3 months in Vietnam, was wounded and decorated.

Bush was an AWOL reservist.

Yes, the Repugs are just dying to bring this up.

[Moderator]

64. Locking

8. If you make a factual assertion about a candidate that is not generally accepted to be true, you must provide a link to a reputable source to back up your claim.