Some want unwed dads to pick up Medicaid’s birth costs

[losdiablosgato]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/missouristatenews/story/235CD805ED53E6A98625704900485B93?OpenDocument

Some want unwed dads to pick up Medicaid’s birth costs
By Virginia Young
Post-Dispatch Jefferson City Bureau
07/25/2005

JEFFERSON CITY - Some Republican legislators want to charge unwed fathers thousands of dollars for hospital birth costs incurred by low-income mothers on Medicaid.

The twin goals: making fathers shoulder more responsibility and reducing taxpayers' costs.

"I don't intend for anything to be punitive at all for mom and baby," Senate Majority Leader Charlie Shields said at a recent meeting of the Missouri Medicaid Reform Commission, which he co-chairs.

"But the last time I checked, it takes two people to make a baby. And there is some responsibility, not just for child support, but for the cost of bringing that child successfully into the world," said Shields, R-St. Joseph.

[SteppingRazor]

1. Oh great idea.

Make poor people even poorer by saddling them with huge medical bills. Wonderful.

[rkc3]

2. Why not?

The guy's right - it takes two people to make a baby. It might make a few guys think twice about whether they leave it unwrapped.

[Maddy McCall]

4. Married couples use medicaid for the births of their children, too.

I'd say that most babies born through medicaid are wanted, whether they were made through accidental pregnancies or not.

[Maddy McCall]

3. Wait! I thought they were pro-life!

They keep initiating policies that make abortion all the more attractive, yet they want to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Someone help me understand this.

[Nikki Stone 1]

7. But that's why they have to get RID of abortion: ALL their policies make

it the most attractive option. That's why they have to take it off the table.

[jonkronz2003]

18. And then.....

Their next great initiative---- Bring back debtors prisons-keep those poor people off their streets.

[XemaSab]

39. totally... that's exactly right.

will dads want to pony up the 300 bucks or so for an abortion or the 5000 or so for having the baby?

[MercutioATC]

5. If the father is also poor I don't support making him foot the entire bill

Medicaid should cover the birth as if the parents were married and eligible for Medicaid.

However, if the father has means, absolutely.

[Eloriel]

13. Good point. So, in that case...

let's make sure he's able to put in 50% of all the child care as well -- not just the money for childcare, but also changing diapers, nighttime feedings, watching the baby, doctor's visits, washing diapers and other laundry, etc., etc., etc.

After all, fair is fair, right?

[MercutioATC]

14. Have you ever SEEN some of these absentee fathers?

I wouldn't want them anywhere near a baby.

I'd say community service (to reimburse Medicaid) would be appropriate. The mother might not benefit directly, but it would demand some labor from the father and help the system overall.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

15. Don't want them near...

Want them to pay up (if they have the financial means to do so).

[MercutioATC]

16. Agreed.

[jonkronz2003]

19. Solve the recruitment problem

draft the deadbeat fathers to pay back medicare....

[sandnsea]

Oopsie

I'm so serious, I posted it twice. :)

[sandnsea]

25. No worse than alot of the moms

We really have to stop stigmatizing men. I've seen just as many rotten unwed mothers as I have unwed fathers.

[MercutioATC]

30. True.

The children usually stay with the mother so she's there, regardless. I'm just not advocating adding to that by also exposing them to a bad father who doesn't want to be there in the first place.

[sandnsea]

31. I'm advocating helping BOTH unwed parents

Which we don't do, in fact unrealistic financial obligations alienates unwed fathers and creates more problems than it solves. Most men do grow up and become responsible, we should help them do it sooner. And if we didn't make it harder for married young people to get assistance than single moms, we'd have many more stable families in the long run too.

[MercutioATC]

45. As I said, I don't advocate UNREALISTIC financial obligations,

but not enough is being done to ensure that fathers who have the means are meeting their responsibilities.

I do agree that both parents need to be helped more (education being the most important avenue).

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BlueIris]

42. Can't believe I just read that on DU.

Oh, wait, yes I can.

'Cause if he "buys it" he "owns it," right?

Vile.

[comsymp]

51. Nope - not right at all.

Frankly, what almost amuses me is the fact that many of those here who argue most vehemently against denying the choice of whether to become a parent to the prospective mother, have absolutely no problem with telling the prospective father that he has *no* choice. A woman has the right to choose to terminate a pregnancy for any reason, yet the attitude towards the prospective father seems to be, "if you don't want to be a dad, don't screw around." I think that's vile.

If two adults engage in consensual sex which produces a child, they're both responsible for its wellbeing, correct?

A woman has the legal right to choose to terminate a pregnancy for any reason she deems valid, not just health-related reasons, right?

[OzarkDem]

52. Agree

That's why so many states now have child support laws.

BTW, any couple whose income is so low they are eligible for Medicaid (that's 100% of FPL or lower in most states) should consider postponing a family until they have the means to support the child.

[Lars39]

6. "People have come to think there's an entitlement to medicine,"

said Rep. Bryan Stevenson, R-Joplin. "If I don't pay my electric bill, they cut it off. If I don't pay my water bill, they cut it off. Yet as a society, we expect medical care."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll confess to being vindictive. I want universal health care for everybody except these f@ckers. :mad: They are the most selfish creatures I have ever known.

[prolesunited]

21. Of course

if you can't pay for medical care, you should just die!

WTF is wrong with these people. These babies are completely innocent and blameless. How can a newborn "take personal responsibility." Yes, the believe in the sanctity of human life. :sarcasm:

[sandnsea]

24. There's assistance for electricity

That's the really dumbass part of that statement.

[Gildor Inglorion]

8. I hate to agree with Repukes! But...

in this case, I think they're on to something. Many "low-income mothers on Medicaid" are underage girls who have been seduced by men (over 18) who should definitely be responsible for their own actions.

[SCDem]

20. I know a few also

that are unwed but living with the father so that they can be on Medicaid. I'm the biggest liberal of them all but that still makes me kind of say hey wait a minute.

[sandnsea]

26. Hey, they can't survive otherwise

What would be the difference between that and universal health coverage? If your crap Walmart job doesn't provide health care, that's the only solution. Better than than kids who can't go to the doctor.

[sam sarrha]

9. i got a special on Vasectomy's.. We deliver.. i got a van

i show up at your house.. snip snip, BYOA.. bring your own Anesthesia

$50... and i can do it in under 3 minutes, and you get a 15% discount if i break my record....

group discounts..

[Gildor Inglorion]

10. Aaaauuuuggghhhh! How horrid....

thank God for being gay! It definitely has its advantages.

:bounce:

[Rainbowreflect]

11. This is already the law in most states.

Medical reimbursement is often part of the child support order.
Most states also require the non-custodial parent to carry health insurance for the child/children.

[sandnsea]

23. Not for Medicaid it isn't

Medicaid isn't contingent on being reimbursed, except in some cases for the elderly who have homes or some tangible property to sell after death.

[Rainbowreflect]

53. Actually it is for birth expenses paid by medicaid.

The states are really pushing to have birth expenses reimbursement included in child support orders.
I work in child support & see it all the time.

[RB TexLa]

54. I've been waiting for the class action lawsuit on this

Most states also require the non-custodial parent to carry health insurance for the child/children.


Yes many do and one day there will be a lawsuit on behave of all children with both parents in the house that are not covered. If the law requires children of non-custodial parents to be covered then under the equal protection clause it would have to apply to all children. I just can't believe it hasn't been filed yet.

[Gormy Cuss]

12. Another great initiative in the War on the Poor.

It sounds great to ask the fathers to pay up. I'll bet a few of them can even afford to do so. I'd also bet based on my professional experience that the vast majority of the unwed fathers can't pay. It will be a nice bureaucratic process that will end up costing the state more for enforcement than they will save in Medicaid expenditures, but it will satisfy those who believe in the "welfare queen" mythology.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

17. Yes, but...

the financial consequences might also cause at least some men to rethink the whole concept of contraception.

[Gormy Cuss]

22. Again, the question is one of cost effectiveness

I agree it might dissuade a few men from having children, just as it may uncover fathers who can afford to pay and are trying to shirk their responsibilities. I just question whether in the end it will save any money in the Medicaid program. First off, a number of the fathers will acquire the debt but never pay it because they are unemployed or underemployed or in some cases incarcerated. Secondly, in some cases the mother will be unwilling or unable to name the father. What does the state do then, refusing to let her have postnatal care?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

28. Your last point does pose a sticky problem...

If the father is unemployed, underemployed, or incarcerated, then he's not able to pay, and I wouldn't care to see him plunged into debt on this account. You can't pay, you don't pay.

I can also see the point about a woman being unwilling to name the father -- might be an old boyfriend who she wants to remain long gone and out of her life, and the knowledge that he's a father might draw him back into her orbit. I'm at a loss as to what to do in that case. Certainly we can't refuse care.

On Edit: Perhaps the phrase "sticky problem" isn't the best in this context, but what the hell can you do?

[OhioBlue]

33. Besides the mother not naming the father

you will also have fathers denying and demanding dna tests. That is a given. Sounds like a huge mess, a total FUBAR to do this. The mother is being admitted to the hospital. If she is unwed and doesn't have the means, she should qualify. Not have to jump through hoops with DNA tests and having the father pissed off at her from the get go because now he is facing huge debt because she isn't insured. This is a BS plan.

[sandnsea]

27. Men should always use condoms?

Yeah, I think men should just take responsibility for contraception no matter what the woman says. But both people should take contraception more seriously.

[tsuki]

49. If they will be allowed to purchase contraception. I am totally for this

proposal. Until men experience consequences from unwanted pregnancies, they are free to take the "moral" road and oppose birth control and choice. Make them financially responsible and you'll hear a different tune.

[OhioBlue]

32. I don't think the fear of having to reimburse

medicade will do much for that effort anymore than the thought of paying child support would. I'm not on board with the argument that it will encourage men to rethink contraception.

[XemaSab]

40. I think that your idea

is somehow wanting to "punish" men for failing to use contraception. I don't think that unwanted babies should be brought into the world so that people can "learn a lesson."

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

41. You're upside down...

The point is to avoid bringing unwanted babies into the world. And men who have sex without contraception and then leave the woman to make all the decision by themselves are something less than manly.

[XemaSab]

44. I just don't think most men really think about consequences

(and a lot of women too).

It's like arguing about whether the death penalty deters crime-- most criminals are stupid and don't think out the consequences before they commit crimes. you can't deter people with a threat if they're too stupid to understand cause and effect.

[Jacobin]

34. Gee, why not have the unwed moms pay half?

More trying to get blood out of a turnip, here, just like the new bankruptcy law.

[Lars39]

35. I get irked every time I think about how much it cost to have my kids

in comparison to a country that has universal health care for its citizens.
My family could have used that $6,000 to better our situation,
or maybe actually have saved that money for retirement.

[KalicoKitty]

36. They should pay!

There are too many that flee when their partner becomes pregnant. If women AND men have so many kids out of wedlock, I say spay and neuter them!


:mad:

[Vinca]

37. It shouldn't be an issue. We need universal health care.

The real question here is why some people feel the need to produce offspring with everyone they have more than a 2 week relationship with. People need to think with something other than their hormones.

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

38. no DNA test no Dime. Period.

far too much cuckooing going on over here for this. On the other hand community service might be a good start if contact is undesirable but were will it end?

Serfdom, Debtor camps?

The human abyss can just go so deep.

[BlueIris]

43. Right. 'Cause of those lyin' wimmen!

Always making up shit about the men who "accidentally" impregnated them. Why can't they just take massively carcingenic, liver-killing hormones and shut the fuck up? Why do men have to take any responsibility? WHY???? OH, the humanity!!!

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

46. whats wrong with wanting certainty?

Would you want to pay for the raising of someone elses child? If it's yours (not you personally) pay and/or do work of course.

But i forgot: Females are divine and can do no wrong.

[sandnsea]

47. Hey, true story here

A friend of my daughter's is mortified. For the last 5 months she has said one guy is the father of her baby. He insisted on a DNA test, turns out that isn't the father after all. She wasn't intentionally lying, but she was still wrong. She sure isn't the first woman who didn't know who the father of her child is, I don't know why women deny stuff like this happens.

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

48. no no no

it's all a evil patriarchy conspirations by male scientist to put blame on wimmins.

Rule #1 it's the mans fault
Rule #2 if it's not this mans fault it is the patriarchy, aka some other mans fault.
Rule #3 if it's the womans fault begin at rule #1

:sarcasm:

[Pepperbelly]

50. This is stupid ...

Med costs have always been subject to court order and that is how it should be. A judge can order it when paternity is established at the same time child support is established.