Answer as honest as you can: do we have a chance in 2006/2008?

[The Straight Story]

If we believe that the elections are rigged (in any number of ways) how much of a chance do we have in 2006/2008?

All this cross talk about candidates, issues, moderates, reaching middle america, wooing red states, who has best voting record or chance, et al seems almost pointless if we cannot win anyway due to cheating.

So deep down, do you feel all our activism and efforts are nearly wasted (no, not totally, we can fight multiple battles) if major changes are not made to how votes are counted?

Just have a bad sinking feeling.... :)

[aquart]

1. "Darling, there's ALWAYS a chance."

Points to anyone who recognizes the quote.

[Bartlet08]

2. Yeah, we'll win...

Don't get too down. Everybody goes through a losing streak. Bush's approval is bad right now and he's not going to have a VP running on his coattails in '08. We'll win with a solid candidate.

[Extend a Hand]

3. I am afraid we're screwed...

but we have to keep trying

[snowbear]

9. LOL... wow, where's your confidence?

The lunitic down in Crawford has a 38% approval rating, the war is going to hell, and people are losing faith in Republicans.

Of course we have a chance!! :grouphug:

[Extend a Hand]

12. I guess I'm just extra bummed

because I spent last week canvassing and phone banking for Paul Hackett, and he still lost to a truly lame rethug candidate after a computer malfunction due to 'humidity' *sigh*

[Booster]

20. And you're being bunned out is understandable. Remember

how Kerry wiped the floor with Bush in all 3 debates; remember how the polls showed Kerry ahead most of the time; remember how even Karen Hughes tried to console Bush because she thought he was going to lose? Yep, without fairness in voting, we is screwed. Nobody yelled then, nobody will yell the next time. That is, nobody but us yelled.

[jobycom]

4. Yes, we have a chance. And don't forget, every time we win and they have

to steal it, they run a greater risk of getting caught, or of having people not believe them.

So the best way for us to expose their cheating is by winning.

[snowbear]

5. No sinking feelings allowed !!

Knocking the sinking feeling right outta ya!

:spank:

[Erika]

6. Many key states are insisting on paper trails

I strongly doubt if Bush won last time even with Rove's pandering moves to the far right.

[FloridaPat]

7. Bush will pull some stunt next year and the voting machines will

again decide who wins. The Democrats will loose total control of the Senate. No more filibusters. Then the 2008 election will be canceled because of another terror alert.

[tedoll78]

8. Of getting control of a chamber, I am soooo skeptical.

Doesn't mean I won't hope or try for it.

Maybe we should hope for gas to climb to $3/gallon? :P (j/k)

[Son of California]

10. you can't cheat if no one wants to help you do it

I believe there has been voter fraud going on in Ohio and other places, but I believe it has been a more grassroots movement, i.e. the little people at the bottom doing the dirty work, but are they going to want to by the time the next election roles around -or is there going to be a ground swell of resistance against Bush, against Republicans? And would that mean that the would be cheaters would lose their accomplices.

I choose Hope.

Hope that the people will see through this and that the polls will be so overwhelmingly in our favor going in, that they wont be able to pull it off without giving themselves away.

[wli]

15. election fraud, "voter fraud" is voters trying to vote twice etc.

Careful with the choice of words. Asscroft was already able to use it to derail all election integrity enforcement.

[jab105]

11. Only if the democrats who are running FINALLY start speaking out

STRONGLY...against what this administration and the Republican congress has done...

No being nice, no third way compromising bullshit, facts only...

The question is whether that will ever happen...Hackett gave me so much hope, but the politicans in Washington ... dont...

[election_2004]

13. Yes, but....

The only way the Democratic Party will chip away significantly at the GOP majority in the U.S. Senate is if they target Burns (Montana) and Talent (Missouri), in addition to Santorum and Chafee.

[wli]

14. I have no idea how we're going to get anywhere with rigged elections

They're blocking the restoration of integrity to elections, and they're blocking any/all lawsuits against them.

The only way I could see anything going right is if people with actual firepower stop following orders and start doing law enforcement in the White House and on Capitol Hill.

[TheDonkey]

16. I believe we do. Even though there may be tampering with the votes

I don't think that the massive anti-republican movement can be overshadowed.

[CRYINGWOLFOWITZ]

17. my new thread: landslide ahead, Bush approval erroding everywhere

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4277756

[The Straight Story]

18. But bush won't be running

And if we believe the elections are rigged and the right owns the MSM then will it matter how low his ratings are??

[txindy]

19. You've just about summed up my feelings

I just can't get into any talk about 2006 or 2008. I can't summon up enough optimism that the voting machines won't make it all pointless. I do agree with another post here that every time they do this they risk exposure. The problem I see is that then they are 'disciplined' by their very own masters - the GOP. In other words, they'll get promoted. And the courts will certify the original 'results' of the election.

No, I'm feeling pessimistic about elections. I think they don't truly exist much, anymore. I believe our best chance lies in exposing the corruption in this administration and that the Rove/Novak case is a good start. We're certainly not lacking for material! Unfortunately. **sigh**

Okay, I'm having a down day. Er,..week. No, month. Okay, a down year. :banghead: Ow. And now I have a headache. ;)

[JHBowden]

21. We'll break even.

If one collects all of the races and looks at them together, this is a likely outcome. There's a chance the public may turn sour on incumbents, but that remains to be seen.

[deadparrot]

22. Rigged elections only succeed if the races are close.

So keep beating down the approval ratings of every whack running for (re-)election, and we'll better out chances.

I think we'll pick up several seats next year.

[wake.up.america]

23. No idea. But, I hope even Bush supporters have a ...

level of tolerance.

They cannot all have a heart of tin.

[Caleb]

24. Yes

I don't know if we can take back the Senate in 2006, but I think we will gain seats in both Houses. And, honestly, 2008 is too far away for me to predict right now. Too many things can happen in 3.5 years.

[FrenchieCat]

25. I believe we have a chance....always.....

But we have to come out kicking and keep on fighting!

What your mind shall conceive, you can achieve!

If not us, then who?

[Hidden Stillness]

26. We will Win as Democrats, When We Start to Act Like Democrats

I believe we will start having a good chance to win every time again, once we get rid of this horrible "D"LC attitude that we are defective and wrong and nobody likes us, and we should hide everything that we are. With both Republicans and the "D"LC jeering at us, with the same jargon--"too liberal for America," "purist," "weak on defense," "can't win"--we have not only lost our own way, but have been ridiculed and attacked publicly for so long--while Republican criminals and liars escape with not even a reference to what they have done, other than phony media cheering, and wishy-washy "D"LC "well we kind of agree too,"--that the only possible result has been a low opinion of us, and a fake high opinion of them. Stop this crawling, and show them as they are, and wait for their approval numbers to dive even further. This is also the answer as to how to appeal to the Midwest, etc. I am a Midwesterner--we are not "Republicans" here, stop calling us that! Act like real Democrats and stop acting like you have something to hide, stop agreeing with every stupid thing any Republican says, stand up and fight, and it will be more impressive than Democrats have been for many years.

Republicans have controlled the past several elections, after all, by vote tampering by their programmed machines, and by redistricting that ends up making our larger Democratic voting areas add up to fewer legislative seats now than their smaller Republican vote totals. We are getting more votes than they are, and fewer seats because of their manipulations. We are more popular with voters than they are. The problem is not that "nobody likes us," as the "D"LC wants you to believe.

The "D"LC is not an authentic part of the Democratic Party, but is a Republican-corporate invented club designed to impose their opinions on our policies (note the "D"LC's corporate Republican funding, as disclosed by Thomas Frank and others). They are not "moderate," "reasonable" or any other social type word: their agenda is corporate first, last and always; they do not relate to the non-rich population.

I agree with Wesley Clark and others, when they--real Democrats--advise that we not criticize other Democrats whenever possible. The "D"LC has nothing to do with this. When this peculiar group is removed from influence and the real rank and file can once again decide things, then the interest of all of the mainstream American people will come back. Then we will return to the days of appealing directly to the American people, unfiltered by this increasingly obstructionist "D"LC corporate image consulting.

[Wabbajack]

27. "do you feel all our activism and efforts are nearly wasted...

.........if major changes are not made to how votes are counted?"

Yes. And right now it's not happening.

The only other chance is if we have such a big lead that a puke "upset" wouldn't be believed. There are too many stupid people for that to happen.

Eventually the neocons will destroy the country (and themselves) then hopefully we can pick up the pieces.

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

28. as long as they can hack/steal the vote - NOPE.

So fix that first.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

29. I'd like To THINK that we have a chance

Of course, I have been optimistic about every election since the 1994 GOP takeover thinking and hoping that the GOP would be returned to minority status and the only GOOD thing that has actually happened was Clinton's re-election in 1996. My hopes for the Dems have been repeatedly dashed since then and I was absolutely DEVASTATED by Bush's wins in 2000 and especially in 2004 since it LOOKED like we had a good chance (and Kerry lost only narrowly). I HOPE that 2006 sees the Dems winning one or both of the houses in Congress (effectively hobbling Bush's legislative agenda for the rest of his term) and taking back the White House in 2008 but, even with Bush and GOP currently polling bad right now, I believe it will take some good Dem candidates, a (fairly) cohesive message and agenda, and a massive UNAPOLOGETIC offensive against the GOP/media "message machine." I've been encouraged by more Dem party leaders and members being more willing to speak up and speak out against Bush/GOP but I'm worried that their efforts, although welcome, are still somewhat reserved and inconsistent and a lot of Dems seem to fold whenever their "harsh" comments inspire a GOP/media-inspired backlash. I've got my fingers crossed though!

[dchill]

30. Better than even chance...

of retaking both houses in '06. Then the White House is a done deal.

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

31. you got as much as a chance as

the germans to vote out Adolf 1938, but you shouldn't burst the conveniemce bubbles of the wet-dreamers here...06/08 as all they cling to.

If it weren't so tragic i'd look forward to all the "plopps" of the bubbles 06/08

[AtomicKitten]

32. If the trend continues as is

I could see this entire administration in serious deep shit. They will wiggle, and equivocate, and evade til the cows come home, but John Q Public is starting to wake up - and it's about time. It is public opinion combined with fixing the damn EVM fraud problem that will kick the crap out of the Republicans in 2006 and 2008. Gotta be both.

[lastknowngood]

33. NO As long as they own all media outlets and the voting machines

were just marking time.

[orleans]

34. randi rhodes was talking to howard dean about voter verified paper ballots

the other day. she also suggested the dnc pay to have exit polls done & howard said that exit polls are terribly expensive.

so is getting screwed on elections howard!

she was also talking about the global terror alert & how we've been threatened by al-zawhairi and she said if we do get hit again--god forbid-- we won't have to lift a finger -- just comfort each other and get through it the best we can.

it was a phone call from her friday show, 8/5:
CALLER: bush's approval ratings are around 38%, this is the time to get him while he's down. what the heck are we doing?
RANDI: well i really do believe that democrats are terrified--that we want to make it through the summer without a terrorist attack.
CALLER: we're getting terrorist attacks because of bush.
RANDI: well, i understand that. but you know i think the democrats are loathe to criticize because we are respectful people; we do have a problem criticizing a war time president when there is a terror alert leveled upon our people, and the tapes just keep on coming, the president's on vacation. i mean, if god forbid, something happens to us this summer while he's on vacation and all the same mistakes he made in 2001, he makes them again, and something--god forbid--happens to us this september or this summer--we don't have to lift a finger. we won't have to do anything. we won't have to say anything. all we'll have to do is comfort each other and find out who needs help, who's okay, go rescue people, go tend to families that have been--again-- shattered. and we won't have to say anything.

[rockymountaindem]

35. We've got a chance in hell.

No way we're going to win back either house in '06. We're too far behind, and we're disadvantaged by gerrymandering at the least, and perhaps by BBV if the theories are true. To win a net of 5 Senate seats and all those House seats isn't going to happen in 1 election. I think we'll make small gains, but we won't win back the house.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, for the Democrats to become competitive in the long term again, it will take the maturation of the "millenial" generation, my generation. We're the only age bracket which voted for Kerry, and we're the only ones who don't remember the divisive turmoil of the Vietnam War, which the last election proves still has a lot of impact in this country.

[mvd]

36. In a fair election..

I think we can take back the Senate and get closer in the House. I can feel the tide really turning already. Unless the Democrats talk about voting issues more, though, there's a concern. My hope is that the Repukes would have to be quite brazen in 2008 at least.