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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:18 AM
Original message
Who believes LaRouche? I just had a long conversation with one of
his supporters wanting a donation and help in getting out the word about Cheney and her hopes for his impeachment. I've done some research on him and recall that he has run for president for many years even while imprisoned on conspiracy and fraud charges. The story I was told by this woman is almost verbatim from the following article that I read online.



LaRouche Warns:
Cheney's `Guns of August'
Threaten the World

http://www.larouchepub.com/pr_lar/2005/lar_pac/050727guns_august.html

I just want to know your thoughts about this matter. I'm convinced that Cheney is a bad ass and have been for years, but I'm having a hard time believing all the things this spokesperson for LaRouche is telling me. She also informed me that there are those in Congress who are listening to LaRouche and are actively investigating Cheney...even Senator Warner who is "very interested in this matter." She wouldn't tell me about others who are giving them information even though I asked a couple of times.

Thanks for your enlightenment on this subject.
Fran
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Nicholas D Wolfwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
1. LaRouchies are one step short of cultists.
And if you think Senator Warner really is very interested in impeaching or investigating Cheney, I've got a bridge to sell you.
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:30 AM
Response to Reply #1
8. I agree. I told her about the letter I had received from her
and he certainly didn't sound like he supported her cause. Her reply was that a staff member had written the letter and that he had never seen it.

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Caution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. I'd say they are one giant leap beyond your average cultist
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tk2kewl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. we are definitely living in crazy times when Lyndon LaRouche sounds sane
:crazy:
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spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
3. I think they make some sense, though his followers are definitely
cult-like. The fact is, Cheney is one scary dude.
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fudge stripe cookays Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
4. Vash is right.
These people are loons. Stay away. Stay FAR away.

FSC
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SteppingRazor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. LaRouche is a nut.
Stopped clocks are right twice a day.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ok well then, maybe Cheney isn't such a bad man after all.
It can't be true if LaRouche is saying it, can it?
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Walt Starr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. LaRouche is a criminal and his followers are insane cultists n/t
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. After listening to her and reading a couple of articles about
him, I got the same impression. I had a very uneasy feeling all the while she was talking about how Cheney would cause another 9/11 so he would have reason to attack Iran with nuclear weapons.
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11cents Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
9. He hates the Bush-Cheney crowd because ....
...he was put in prison under Bush Sr's administration for defrauding the elderly. That's all there is to it. He was a big Reagan supporter. Liked Clinton, hated Gore. There's no external coherence to his positions; it's all to do with his personal interests and contorted theories. His cult has at times been violent as well as whackaloon. Stay away.
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. She told me that LaRouche was going to be in Kerry's
administration if he had been elected. She bad mouthed Kerry for not fighting for the Ohio votes, but they still supported him for President. She also said that Kerry wouldn't go along with LaRouche in his administration. I wonder why???????? :sarcasm:
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Another side of the story:
The government alleged that LaRouche, Billington, and the others, had conspired to borrow money from political supporters, for political purposes, with no intention to repay the loans.
http://larouchein2004.net/exoneration/exon5.htm

*

...an illegal and unprecedented involuntary bankruptcy action--initiated by the same Justice Department prosecutors, and approved by the same federal judge, who later oversaw the frame-up criminal trial of LaRouche in Alexandria, Va.
...
The involuntary bankruptcy--which made it illegal to repay these loans!--was the essential precondition for bringing criminal charges of conspiracy to commit mail fraud and wire fraud against LaRouche and his associates.
...
Never before in U.S. history had the government itself been the petitioner in an involuntary bankruptcy case.
...
They secretly went to the Bankruptcy Court on April 20, 1987, and obtained an order allowing the government to immediately go and shut down the companies. That evening, Hudson deployed FBI agents to surveil the offices of those companies. Early the next morning, U.S. Marshals seized the offices of the three companies and sealed them.
http://www.larouchepub.com/exon/exon1.html

*

On Aug. 31, 1995, former U.S. Attorney General Ramsey Clark testified before an independent commission of inquiry, probing criminal abuse of power by top officials of the U.S. Department of Justice and the FBI. Clark spoke of the frameup of leading American political economist and statesman Lyndon LaRouche as the single most grievous case of prosecutorial abuse he had ever encountered.
...
Among the documents later released exposing FBI criminality, was a 1973 FBI headquarters Cointelpro memorandum on LaRouche and the NCLC, showing that the FBI was considering supporting an assassination attempt against LaRouche by the Communist Party USA.
http://www.schillerinstitute.com/health/dc_js_on_kkkatie.html
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bribri16 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. As compared to ??? the Bush administration????? your point???
LaRouche makes a lot more sense the most of the Republicans in office.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
15. He's a whackjob.
Even whackjob's occasionally get a few things right. But he's a nut, no two ways about it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
emcguffie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. I spoke to a LaRouche supporter once, outside the UN --
-- and I was quite surprised by how sane they sounded, actually. Every thing he said I agreed with. I don't know that much about LaRouche, but I vaguely have the impression that it's the tax business that he's so far out on.

Libertarians have a lot in common with the left, and a lot in common with the right.

LaRouche can be described as a Libertarian, can't he?
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. 2/3 of the Senate subscribe to his Executive Intelligence reports.
actually he send sit to them free so he can claim to his sheep that they "subscribe" In reality it gets tossed in the trash.


Go away Larouchie, this board is for DEMOCRATS, not rw cultists.
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evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
17. SOME of what LaRouche says is credible, but that doesn't mean
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 12:44 PM by evermind
supporting his group is a good thing. They are about much more than a few political soundbites and a bit of political analysis.

To prove my point, here's a few bits from LaRouche's interview with the BBC, April 2003 - he makes some good points about the Iraq war:



[...]

The point is, this is a war which has no exit strategy, and from a military standpoint very little competence. The generals are competent, but I think the Defense Secretary is not competent--at least, from what we've seen. And I know a good deal about how this war was engineered. It's unnecessary, the matter should have remained in the United Nations. We, as a group of nations, have the ability to control any actual problem which existed there. It was not necessary to go to war, and this war can not stop with Iraq, because it's a war that has no satisfactory exit, as we say in the United States, no satisfactory exit strategy.

[...]

[About WMD and UN inspections]

The facts of the matter are also in question. There was a group which fabricated some of the stuff which was laundered through the Prime Minister's office, which was then regurgitated by Secretary Powell in the United Nations proceeding. So far, the United States official position has been to adopt that fraudulent information as the basis for alleged violations by Iraq. I don't know whether they are alleged violations or not. It doesn't make any difference. We could have handled them the other way. You have the Chief Inspector Blix, who has rather discouraged this nonsense, and we shouldn't have gotten ourselves in this mess.


( from: http://larouchein2004.net/pages/interviews/2003/030403bbc.htm )

That, to my mind, was a reasonable and insightful comment on the war, right at the time it was starting. He also makes some interesting comments about the Nazi affiliation of neo-con guru Strauss, I don't know how true, which portray Wolfowitz and Perle in an agreeably bad light.

So LaRouche sometimes gets it right.

However, there's a darker side to the LaRouche organisation, as described, for example, in Chip Berlet's (1986!) article from Public Eye Magazine, at: http://www.skepticfiles.org/rumor/lr-hist.htm

A few quotes from a long article:


[in 1973] LaRouche followers wielding chains and bats physically attacked and injured political rivals in street battles and classroom brawls. LaRouche ordered his troops into the streets saying "I am going to make you organizers --by taking your bedrooms away from you....To the extent that my physical powers do not prevent me, I am now confident and capable of ending your political --and sexual --impotence; the two are interconnected aspects of the same problem." In early 1974 LaRouche announced to the press that he had uncovered a CIA plot to brainwash his followers into assassinating him. LaRouche alone had the skill to develop the "deprogramming" sessions each member was expected to undergo.

[...]

Richard Lobenthal, Midwest Regional Director for the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith observes that one indicted LaRouche security advisor, Roy Frankhouser "has been identified as present with other white supremecists at meetings held at the farm of Pastor Bob Miles in Michigan." Leaders of the notoriously racist Aryan Nations have attended the same meetings. "Frankhouser's background and connections are myriad, he is obviously a LaRouchite, he is a professed racist and anti-Semite and was a close associate of neo-Nazi leader George Lincoln Rockwell," says Lobenthal. Another ADL spokesperson, Irwin Suall, was once sued by LaRouche for calling him a "small time Hitler." The jury ruled against LaRouche.

[...]

Prexy Nesbitt, a consultant to the American Committee on Africa who has lead campaigns calling for Divestment in South Africa, agrees the LaRouche organization should be taken more seriously. "His people have deliberately made themselves an obstacle to our organizing and disrupted our activities," says Nesbitt. "The LaRouche people spied on anti-apartheid activists and South African exiles in Europe and then provided information to South African government," charges Nesbitt. "This is a very dangerous and potentially deadly game," he says. "Critics of the South African Government have disappeared or been killed, their offices have been blown up," reports Nesbitt.

In 1981 the respected British magazine New Scientist ran an article titled "American fanatics put scientists' lives at risk." According to the article, LaRouche's Executive Intelligence Review had circulated a report naming a number of scientist working in the Middle East as being involved in an insurgent conspiracy against established governments. "In certain Middle East countries with hypersensitive governments," warned the magazine, "these allegations, however indirect, can easily lead to arrests, prison sentences and even executions."


Also from the eighties, 1981 in fact, there's a list of LaRouchie malfeasance at http://www.publiceye.org/larouche/Bellant_Berlet_King.html from Berlet, Russ Bellant and Dennis King, focussing on then LaRouche org the National Caucus of Labour Committees (NCLC). LaRouche is fingered for ties to dodgy intelligence agencies and organised crime:


1) The NCLC intelligence staff, which does freelance research for hire, has prepared reports for foreign intelligence agencies such as the Bureau of State Security (BOSS) of South Africa, and SAVAK under the late Shah of Iran. A former NCLC Counterintelligence specialist recounted in the March 30, 1979 issue of National Review how NCLC had prepared a report for the Iraqi government. Other former NCLC security staffers have been quoted in print as saying the organization has prepared reports for many other governments including Libya, Taiwan, South Korea, India and French Intelligence under Giscard. To our knowledge, the NCLC has never registered as agents for any of these foreign governments.

[...]

3) LaRouche and the NCLC ties to organized crime figures and Teamster Union officials alleged to have organized crime ties have been reported in an exhaustive article by Dennis King appearing in the December 1981 issue of High Times magazine. Another article appearing in the January 1982 issue of Mother Jones, makes similar charges: LaRouche was endorsed for President of the U.S. by Rolland McMaster, who has repeatedly been identified as a Detroit racketeer. LaRouche's New Hampshire primary campaign was coordinated by Jack Ferris, a close associate and reputed business frontman for McMaster. Ferris was paid over $96,000 by the LaRouche campaign committee, much of it while LaRouche was receiving federal matching funds. The LaRouche campaign included threats to make it "very painful" for his critics according to the 10/12/79 issue of the Manchester Union Leader.


It's a classic tactic of those wishing to recruit young idealists into cultic movements to piggy-back their doctrine on top of valid or plausible critiques of the politics of the day. The quotes above indicate the sort of roots his organisation has - a comparison to scientology or the Moonies seems completely valid to me - and there's plenty of evidence that LaRouche continues to exploit members of his own organisation today, for example the "anti-cult" site http://www.justiceforjeremiah.com/index.html has a telling series of letters from a LaRouche insider, and other links worth reading...
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Deleted message
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evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Do you have any serious rebuttal
of the articles that I linked to? I only skimmed the surface of the dodginess linked to LaRouche's various organisations. I suggest you (and anyone else interested) check them out in full.

Yes, he's shifted his stance away from overt antisemitism, but his current doctrine of "beast-men" still contains a significant marker of fascist ideologies: the willingness to classify one's opponents as something less than human.

He's undoubtedly an intelligent man, and has said some true things about US political corruption. He also has said some completely stupid things (HRH Queen Elizabeth II a global drug kingpin (er... queenpin ..?) ... the Tavistock Institute plotting the 60's revolution of consciousness in advance? Stuff like that is why people call him a loon.)

Sure he's saying Bush is a criminal idiot. Liberty Lobby and affiliated media outlets said the same thing about GHWB in the early 90's - does that mean I should have supported them then? Since they were a white supremacist, holocaust denying, crowd perhaps that wouldn't have been the right course of action.

Of course demagogues come out with some political truth now and then - that doesn't mean anyone should buy into their whole outlook on life and sign up as a cult member. LaRouche is just a Ron Hubbard or Reverend Moon operating in the political arena.

If you want to send him your money - that's your choice, but I should take a CLOSE LOOK at what you're supporting if I were you.
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Caleb Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. He's an anti-Semitic nut
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 03:18 PM by Caleb
I remember him blaming 9/11 on "Jewish gangsters". He's also a Holocaust denier.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Caleb Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Actually, there is no evidence
that points to an Israeli involvement in 9/11.

And he is a HOLOCAUST DENIER which has nothing to do with Israel. He's a Nazi and so are his supporters/defenders.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Caleb Donating Member (251 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. It's not my money
being wasted. Good luck with all that.
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WoodrowFan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
32. hit alert
we need Larouchies here about as much as we need Freepers.
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
24. Larouche has a long history of anti-Semetic and anti-gay statements
And promotes a lot of conspiracy theories, among them that Queen Elizabeth II of England was behind the Oklahoma City bombing, and that former Vice President Walter "Fritz" Mondale was a KGB Agent.



As others have said, a broken clock is right at least twice a day...
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Sean Reynolds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #24
30. Didn't he also believe Queen Elizabeth....
Was involved in drug trafficking?
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Halliburton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
26. stay away from them
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46883-2004Oct20.html

they are really aggresive recruiters who won't leave you alone. They were trying to convince me that the London terror attacks were the act of bankers and that 9/11 and it's all a big conspiracy by the banking industry or something like that. they try to recruit a lot of people who don't like repukes, but don't know enough about politics to recognize that this guy Larouche isn't mainstream. it makes them easier to brainwash.
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clydefrand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. Thanks to all who contributed ideas and links about
LaRouche. I appreciate your time and efforts to educate me.
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Eloriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:13 PM
Response to Original message
29. LaRouche is roundly dismissed here at DU --- BUT
Edited on Tue Aug-09-05 06:25 PM by Eloriel
(a) I've never seen any independent and credible debunking of LaRouche;

(b) he wouldn't have been the first politician or other individual critical of TPTB to be "ruined" and forever discredited by those who were his enemies -- tho I'm not saying this is the case, just that I have my suspicions; and

(c) FWIW, everything I've ever seen of his Executive Review (I think it's called) has been right on the money.

:shrug:

Edited: Well, I wrote the above before I read all the other comments. I have not myself seen anti-Semitism, etc., etc., but then I haven't studied him and everything he has ever been involved in. I won't dismiss all of that out of hand, nor will I automatically buy it all wholecloth.
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AlienGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Here's some evidence:
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Moderator DU Moderator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-09-05 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
34. Locking
asked and answered
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