We Attacked Japan.

[erpowers]

A number of Republican are trying to say that attacking Iraq was okay because during WWII the United States attacked Germany instead of Japan. The idea that the United States did not attack the country that attacked it is totally wrong. It is sad that many people in this country do not realize what countries we attacked during WWII. During WWII we attacked both Iwo Jima and Okinawa. Both of these places are on island of Japan. So we did attack Japan during WWII. So the next time a Republican tells you that attacking Iraq is like attacking WWII in that we did not attack Japan, respond by telling them that the United States did in fact attack Japan.

[madeline_con]

1. Are they all non-readers?

It was in all the papers, and now in all the history books.

They're parrots anyway. One cansay something, and it makes the rounds of all the RW talk shows, blogs andmeassage boards. :puke:

[TahitiNut]

2. In both cases, Germany and Japan initiated the state of war.

Japan, while intending to convey a declaration of war immediately prior to the attack on Pearl Harmor, obviously initated hostilities ... to which the US Congress responded by Constitutionally declaring war.

Germany, under a mutual defense treaty with Japan, declared war on the US as a result of the US's declaration of war on Japan.

Idiots just *LOVE* to invent their own version of history. :shrug:

[Maple]

4. Well cutting off Japan's oil supply first

might have had something to do with it, hmmm?

[TahitiNut]

7. It fell a bit short of a blockade and was, therefore, not a casus belli.

Provocative? Ubetcha. Arguable? Yep.

[Maple]

10. Well apparently the Japanese

didn't see it that way. :D

[NoPasaran]

37. Yeah, they were upset

Because it was interfering with their barbaric war waged against the Chinese.

[geek tragedy]

45. Yeah, and the Nazis thought they were the good guys too. eom

[Mountainman]

8. It goes back further than that. After WWI there was a conference of natio

to decide what size the armies and the navies of the world should be. It was decided that Japan have a very small insignificant navy and army while England and the United States were allowed to build huge battle ships and later carriers.

Japan had very few natural resources to build and we use to sell them scrap iron. We stopped selling that to them and they went out in the world conquering counties like China to get the natural resources they demanded. The only country big enough to prevent them from building an empire was the US and the attack on Pearl Harbor was supposed to weaken us so much that we could do nothing about their conquests. At the battle of Midway we destroyed their carrier fleet and it was all down hill from then for Japan.

[rinsd]

33. Some points...

" decide what size the armies and the navies of the world should be.

The Japanese, US and Britain were involved in a naval arms race right after the war. The Washington Conference was the very first arms limitation treaty.

"It was decided that Japan have a very small insignificant navy and army while England and the United States were allowed to build huge battle ships and later carriers."

This simply isn't true.

The Japanese had the US outclassed in almost every military vehicle, ship and even sheer numbers of soldiers at the start of WW2 add to that they were more experienced having fought in China for 4 years before tangling with the US.

"Japan had very few natural resources to build and we use to sell them scrap iron. We stopped selling that to them and they went out in the world conquering counties like China to get the natural resources they demanded."

While Japan's thirst for conquest had alot to do with acquiring natural resources including tin, rubber and oil for Southeast Asia, our selling of scrap iron to them stopped with the invasion of China and did not cause it.

"The only country big enough to prevent them from building an empire was the US and the attack on Pearl Harbor was supposed to weaken us so much that we could do nothing about their conquests."

Actually it was Britain that kept the Japanese in line in the years leading up to the war. The British Navy was the "most powerful on earth" and was deployed to protect the colonies. The US relied partially on this because the US Navy was not large enough to cover the vast Pacific. As WW2 heated up, Britain had to redeploy to the Atlantic to fight the Germans.

Pearl Harbor was indeed about taking out what they considered their last obstacle to a vast oceanic empire.

"At the battle of Midway we destroyed their carrier fleet and it was all down hill from then for Japan."

Midway was a turning point and they did lose some carriers but the Japanese Navy was still a force for another couple of years.

[Mountainman]

75. Japan did have a small navy after the "first arms limitation treaty,"

but they did not like the restrictions placed on them and instead built a large force. That does not make what I said wrong.

I did not say our not selling scrap iron caused them invade China, I said they invaded countries like China looking for natural resources. My use of the word China was unfortunate, my bad.

Japan felt that if they defeated our navy at Hawaii and Midway it would take us much too much time to rebuild it and we would sue for peace which would allow them to go on with their conquest. England had no part to play in that.

After Japan lost 4 carriers in the battle of Midway, they never again had the power to mount much of an offensive war against us and their navy was used mostly for defense. Their ability to fight the war did go down hill after Midway.

Now why do you feel the need to do what you did?

[rinsd]

87. "Now why do you feel the need to do what you did?"

Because you presented facts that were simply incorrect to give impression that was quite different from reality. From your earlier post.

"It was decided that Japan have a very small insignificant navy and army while England and the United States were allowed to build huge battle ships and later carriers."

This was simply not true. The limitations were based on tonnage and applied to all signatories to the treaty. Japan and the US and Britain were involved in a fierce post WW1 naval arms race. This treaty was used to stave off what people felt was a rush to another war.

"Japan had very few natural resources to build and we use to sell them scrap iron. We stopped selling that to them and they went out in the world conquering counties like China to get the natural resources they demanded."

See here the wording implies that when we stopped selling scrap iron, that caused the invasion of CHina.

[NoPasaran]

38. The Washington Naval Conference

Set the tonnage ratios of the navies of Britain, the US, and Japan at 5:5:3. Under that agreement, all three powers scrapped a number of older ships and cancelled some ships already under construction. Both the US and Japan also completed some battlecruisers under construction as aircraft carriers.

Japanese history during the 1920s and 30s is a steady story of the army and navy undermining civilian authority and engaging in military adventures. To somehow blame the US for Japanese behavior is to be delusional.

[Mountainman]

67. I never said that the United Sates was to blame for anything Japan did.

I don't see where anything I said implied that what Japan did was the fault of American actions. I said America cut off the supply of scrap metal but I did not say that it forced Japan to do something. Japan did what it did because of the leaders of Japan wanted it.

[rockymountaindem]

12. That's only half the story.

The reason we cut off Japan's oil supply was because Japan refused to withdraw from China, after the US, the League of Nations and practically everyone else in the international community demanded that they withdraw.

We put an embargo on Japan in 1941, this was after:

The illegal Japanese seizure of Manchuria in 1931
Japan's second invasion of China in 1935, and the subsequent LofN demand that they withdraw
The Rape of Nanking in 1936
The fall of Shanghai to the Japanese

This is why the US embargoed Japan. It wasn't like we did it just to spite 'em. Believe it or not, the US was standing up for the Chinese at the loss of a major market for US goods and, as we learned, Japanese military retaliation.

[Maple]

18. Again...and with all due respect

who asked ya?

[TankLV]

41. I did - and I'm glad these FACTS are out there.

However INCONVENIENT to your fantasy of WWII.

[T Town Jake]

61. Don't much like...

...seeing your nonsense get smacked down with logic and facts, do ya? Well then, I have quite the solution for you: quit posting nonsense.

[Andromeda]

20. Don't confuse them with the facts.

When you start explaining actual events that led up to the war with Japan some people start twitching uncontrollably because actual history upsets them.

They're much more comfortable believing the U.S. was an evil government who mindlessly and indiscriminately sought other countries to annihilate.

Wasn't true then; but the Bushies have changed things.

[geek tragedy]

25. No use reasoning with people who believe that Japan was the victim

in WW II. It's like discussing gay rights with Fred Phelps.

[rinsd]

34. LOL...harsh analogy (nt)

[geek tragedy]

35. Harsh is my middle name.

Actually, Danger is my middle name, but Harsh would make a good one as well.

[rinsd]

50. Maybe you could hyphen it Geek Harsh-Danger Tragedy? (nt)

[geek tragedy]

53. That sort of thing is not my bag, baby. eom

[TankLV]

42. Hahaha - good one! Ya got that right! Couldn't agree more.

(I've got to learn to stop taking posts so personally.)

[Flavin]

36. Also....

Don't forget our forcefull eviction of the Japanese Army from the Russian seaports they seized at the end of the Russian Revolution.
Held onto it for a bit, too.

Just as we invaided and took possession of the Northern Sea Port of Arc Angel from the Red Russians to use as a supply point for the White Russians in the Revolution. When the Whites lost, we held onto it for a bit longer than necessary to withdraw cleanly.

Sarcasim gland fully funtional....No wonder the Russian Comunist government had this weird idea that we were medling in their affairs....

Flavin

[rinsd]

32. That embargo had to do with the invasion of Indo-China....

...which was coming on the heels of our embargo against steel and aluminum because of the Japanese invasion of China.

[BattyDem]

3. WTF do they mean "we didn't attack Japan?!"

:grr: :eyes: :grr:

Did this just slip their minds?
Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

[Mountainman]

5. We also nuked a couple of their cities didn't we?

We fire bombed Tokyo and many other cities for about a year before we nuked them.

The B-29's could not inflict enough damage dropping iron bombs from 30,000 ft because of the winds so Gen whatshisname who was in command of the air corps decided to drop incendiaries from 9000 ft. More people died in the fire storms than did in the nuclear attacks.

[Greeby]

15. whatshisname is

Curtis LeMay, who went on to become Air Force Chief of Staff. He was a real nutcase. So much so that he was the basis for the character of General Buck Turgidson (George C. Scott) in Dr. Strangelove.

Watch Thirteen Days sometime, and you'll see how he and the other Joint Chiefs had a hardon for invading Cuba. He also wanted to nuke Vietnam, and after retiring in 65, ran as George Wallace's running mate in 68.

:puke:

[Geoff R. Casavant]

6. Two Words:

Jimmy Doolittle.

Look it up folks. Tokyo itself is bombed mere months after Pearl.

On edit: Or, if you like, rent "Pearl Harbor" and watch Alec Baldwin as Jimmy Doolittle.

[JVS]

47. That was a small publicity stunt of an air-raid.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

65. True, but

You ask me, if a bomb drops it's an attack.

[Massacure]

9. Germany declared war on the U.S.

In terms of British support, Roosevelt was hee-hawing around until that point.

[kodi]

11. at the Nuremberg Trials von Ribbentrop was asked why they did

justice jackson, the head prosecutor asked why the third reich had declared war on the US and von Ribbentrop, the nazi foreign minister responded that the third reich had a treaty with japan to declare war on any nation who declared war on japan. then, jackson asked him...."why, of all the treaties the third reich broke during the war did they honor that one with japan?"

btw: they hung von Ribbontrop

[Yupster]

68. German generals couldn't believe

that Hitler declared war on the US.

The Russians started their giant counteroffensive before Moscow just a few days before Pearl Harbor.

The German army was reeling and in danger of suffering Napolean's fate before Moscow in the dead of winter.

Soldiers were caught in the open, underclothed with metal tipped boots in the horrible cold with Soviet armies sometimes hundreds of miles behind them trying to encircle them.

And in the midst of this disaster, the generals learned that their country had declared war on the USA.

The general reaction in Russia was incredulous. Back in Germany, the generals of the General Staff just wondered how they were supposed to fight the USA now that they had declared war on them. They couldn't even cross the English Channel to hit the English. How were they supposed to fight America.

It was a pretty depressing week in Zoosen.

[Robeson]

13. Right. And its amazing how many Repukes I hear, who don't know that.

They don't know who declared war and initiated actions against whom, in the biggest war in the history of the World. Just amazing.

[Blotto]

14. We attacked Germany by invading North Africa....

....in fact...we didn't put ground forces into Germany until 1945.

Hope that clears things up for you....

[Andromeda]

22. But we had an aggressive air and sea campaign

against Germany before the time we actually put in foot soldiers.

[Yupster]

69. We had an aggressive air and sea campaign

against Nazi Germany long before Pearl Harbor.

[Blotto]

89. Wrong....

....the first US bombing raid in Europe occurred on Aug 17, 1942....when we bombed FRANCE. We invaded North Africa on November 7, 1942...and did not conduct our first bombing raid over Germany until Jan 27, 1943.

So we attacked Germany by invading North Africa.

Rolling up an enemy usually involves attacking his perimeters. So attacking Iraq is not at all like the "invading Mexico" analogy...it's more like the reality of attacking Germany by invading North Africa.

[Yupster]

92. Are you responding to me?

Your info is all about stuff after Pearl Harbor while I referred to stuff before Pearl Harbor.

Before Pearl Harbor we were far from innoocent babes watching a foreign movie.

In November 1939, the congress voted to allow arms sales to England and France.

In March 1941, the congress passed Lend-Lease which "loaned" massive war materials to the Allies.

In April of 1941, the US military took over Greenland, which was a possession of German-occupied Denmark.

In July of 1941, the US froze Japanese assets. The UK did the same. This act prohibited the sale of oil to Japan from US controlled areas. It included the Dutch East Indies, which is where Japan got its oil from. The Japanese economy would soon collapse if the oil could not be obtained somehow.

In July of 1941, the US landed in and occupied Iceland, which was also a Danish possession.

In September 1941, the US navy begins escorting convoys across the Atlantic. The destroyers are given a shoot on sight order allowing them to hunt U-boats. While the U-boats are ordered to not fire back, some do and an undeclared war now exists between the US and Germany in the Atlantic.

[Blotto]

94. yeah....and you call THAT "aggressive"?

....you must have had a heart attack during Kasserine!

So...we sold weapons and loaned material to the allies. So what? We also had industrial relationships with the Germans. In fact...unless I'm mistaken, we were Germany's largest creditor before WWII (which makes sense since we saved the German nation from starvation after Versailles)....

Iceland?

Paaaaaaaalllllease. First of all it was the British who occupied Iceland...the US sent an small advance contingent to set-up a strategic airbase. Big whoop. Compared to Torch, this is hardly an "aggressive air and sea campaign".

The fact remains. Germany declared war on the US and our first assault on German forces was during our illegal, illegitimate and unwarranted invasion of innocent North Africa.

You can not refute this simple fact of history.

So why is it OK for the US to invade North Africa when it was Germany who declared war on us?

[Yupster]

95. No, our first assault on German forces was not in North Africa

it was US destroyers dropping depth charges onto U-Boats in the Atlantic before Pearl Harbor.

You may consider that puny compared to Operation Torch, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It probably wasn't puny to the sailors in the U-Boats being depth charged who had orders not to shoot back.

The Germans might even argue that the first assault was earlier in the year when US destroyers would find and tail U-Boats until British ships could come along to dispatch them.

Whether that would qualify as "aggressive" is arguable I guess.

The part about the legality of the invasion of North Africa I guess should be addressed elsewhere because I nowhere in this thread argued for or against the legality of the invasion of Vichy France by the Allies.

[Blotto]

99. yikes...THERE'S a reach....

The USS Niblack fired three defensive depth charges in the expanded security zone as it was conducting a rescue operation to save three life-boat loads of Dutch merchant mariners who had just been sunk by a nearby German U-boat. And you want to compare THAT to the invasion of North Africa? You call THAT an "agressive sea campaign"?

C'mon...get serious.

By the way...I was being sarcastic when I used the word "illegal" and "illegitimate". Just trying to use the current hyperbole that is so beloved by the present hysteria lobby.

My original analogy stands. The US attacked Germany by invading North Africa. And magically THAT doesn't bother anybody. How convenient.

[geek tragedy]

98. Illegal invasion of North Africa? I'd like some of what you're smoking.

We should of just let German have North Africa? Nutty.

[Wizard777]

16. More Republican revisionist history.

We declared war with Germany shortly after declaring war with Japan. We had sufficeint proof that they were allied with Japan. The delay was due to fact checking and double checking. There is no 9/11 link to Iraq. President Bush has closer ties to Usama Bin Laden than Saddam Hussein.

One thing is for sure about WW II. It showed the World that America may be the new kid on the block of World History and World Power. But it is much better to be at the bottom of our freinds list than at the top of our shit list. :nuke: :nuke: End of arguement. Begining of friendly dialog.

[Laurenty]

17. Yes

Republicans attacked Japan in WW2. The insanity of their complaints and bizarre rantings about how WW2 and this war are 'defense' are reprehensible.

[Igel]

30. I'm sorry. Are you saying FDR was a repub?

Or did I miss the sarcasm?

[Robeson]

62. Uh, FDR was a Democrat. And see post #60 if you need a primer on WW II.

[nickgutierrez]

19. The entire argument is shaky at best

Especially since there is no nation called "Terroristan" that we can just invade and win this whole War on... Struggle against... whatever the fuck we're supposed to call it this week. The "war on terror" isn't a war at all. It cannot be won with guns and bombs, but by creating an atmosphere that makes terrorism a less palatable option for the citizens of the world. While the Middle East is a key region in this battle, it is by no means the only "theater".

Also, attacking Iraq is nothing at all like attacking Germany's holdings in Northern Africa - it would be more like invading... let's say Spain in response to Pearl Harbor. Yeah, Franco was an asshole and a dictator, but bigger fish needed frying. The same could be said for Saddam.

[opihimoimoi]

21. Hiroshima and Nagasaki stands out as proof....

[TankLV]

43. Psst - "PEARL HARBOR".

Just trying to help. You seem to have forgot.

[baldguy]

23. We had real allies in WWII

The allies agreed that at the start of the war Germany posed a greater threat and would be dealt with first. The US abided by this decision & did NOT act unilaterally. We did NOT put our own interests above those of the free world.

[geek tragedy]

24. This gets my vote for "Ignorant post of the day."

A few facts:

1. Japan attacked us first, and Germany declared war on US very soon thereafter. Unless you believe in outright pacifism, your entire post is utterly pointless.

2. Japan is not a single island, but multiple islands.

3. Iwo Jima and Okinawa are themselves islands. Neither is part of the islands that make up Japan.

4. No one has denied that we used violence against Japan. No one.

5. I agree with you that ignorance is sad to witness.

[fujiyama]

28. This symbolizes my feelings perfectly:

:banghead: :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

[TankLV]

44. Facts maks them get headaches. You are cruel.

I want to know when we are going to have a hand-wringing memorial day on December 7th - you know, when the Japanese apologise for starting WWII?

Naw - that's to much to ask around here for too many.

[geek tragedy]

46. Who needs facts when you have rhetoric? eom

[Robeson]

73. Is there room for another to join you in that vote?

[geek tragedy]

97. Sure. This is DU--every vote counts! eom

[erpowers]

76. Not An Ignorant Post

If you look up Iwo Jima or Okinawa in an encyclopedia you will find that they are listed as Iwo Jima, Japan and Okinawa, Japan. My post had nothing to do with pacifism. My post was dealing with Republicans who try to say that the Iraq war is justified by WWII in that we attacked a country that did not attack us. I was pointing out that we actually attacked the country that attacked us. Maybe you should read a post before you try saying it is an "ignorant post" and that it is "utterly pointless". Maybe you should look up the number for the station 90.1 KPFT and ask to speak with the host of the show called the Other Side. He will tell you that near the end of his show a Republican called his show and said we did not attack Japan. In addition, you can go into the station's archives and listen to the show. the website for the station is www.kpft.org. Finally, my post and myself are not ignorant. I had the knowledge to point out that the United States attacked the person who attacked it. If you actually read my post you will see that I mentioned that the United States was attacked by Japan. Next time read a post before you try to insult the author.

[geek tragedy]

96. I've never heard of anyone suggesting that we didn't use violence against

the Japanese homeland. Never.

And we were bombing the hell out of the Japanese mainland long before we landed on Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

So I really fail to see what the point of the post was.

[theboss]

26. Huh?

A. What Republicans said this?
B. What the hell are you saying?

[erpowers]

77. At Least Two

I have heard at least two Republicans claim that the United States attacked Germany instead of attacking Japan after we were attacked by Japan.

[fujiyama]

27. WTF?

Anyone that argues Roosevelt attacked the wrong country is too stupid to even talk to.

Roosevelt didn't attack fuckin Mexico for God's sakes (as Richard Clarke mentioned), which would be a better analogy of our invasion of Iraq. He attacked two nations ALLIED against the US, which had declared war. As far as I know Saddam had not declared war on the US.

Hitler declared war on the US shortly after the US declared war on Japan, following the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor.

At this point we are the equivalent of the Japanese, extremely hungry for resources, attacking and invading countries unjustifiably which ultimately pose no threat to us (it might be argued that the US posed a geater military threat to the Japanese than Saddam posed to us).

[Guaranteed]

63. I'm not sure that I really understand the OP at all.

I'm with you.

[erpowers]

78. It Is Easy Read the Post

The post is easy to understand if you do not want to put word in the post that are not there. The post is very straightforward. Republicans have claimed that the invasion of Iraq is equivalent to the invasion of Germany during WWII in that we were not attacked by Germany, but Japan. These Republican claim we did not attack Japan during the war. I just pointed out that the invasion of Iraq is not equivalent to the invasion of Germany during WWII in that after Japan attacked us we actually attacked them. In additon, I pointed out that we attacked Japan after they attacked us. My post said nothing about pacifism or Roosevelt. In addition, I never claimed that the United States attacked Japan first or without reason. Some people just decided to add those thing into the post so they could say the post was wrong. So just read the post and take it at face value.

[fujiyama]

85. They sound really stupid either way

Bring up the Richard Clarke comment - that attacking Iraq is the equivalent of Roosevelt attacking Mexico after Pearl Harbor.

The simple fact is that the Iraq war has no real precedent or justification. While it's certainly true the US has had imperialist tendacies throughout its history, none were nearly this blatant.

Even if the pukes claimed this was a "preemptive" war, they'd still be wrong, because there was really nothing to preempt. Saddam posed no immediate or clear threat. He wasn't positioning his military in some hostile way. He was not preparing any sort of military action against the US.

You may consider reading up on history and have a clearer understanding of the events leading up to the US entry into WWII. The US didn't attack Nazi Germany just because Roosevelt wanted to (though he did to some extent) or even because Germany had attacked other nations in Europe. It was because HITLER DECLARED WAR ON THE US. When a country declares war against you, you fight. That's what the US did with Nazi Germany. It was decided early on that Nazi Germany was the more immediate threat. It was about priorities. Plus, it's not as though the US just sat back and fought Germany alone for years until it fought the Japanese. The US had to build a war time industry capable of invading Japan, something which the US simply couldn't do immediately following Pearl Harbor.

Don't fall for their stupidity in any way and don't even take their arguments seriously. The RW has tried to paint this war as a defensive war, while the opposite is true. The invasion was a blatant act of aggression, with no justification whatsoever. Just about every claim the administration has made has turned out to be false.

Don't even address claims like "we didn't attack Japan". Some are too strange and idiotic to bother.

[ArkDem]

29. My dad flew over 30 missions over Japan in 1945 in

[Igel]

31. OK, you have to get right what's being said before you get

intelligent posts.

People aren't saying that the US never engaged in attacking Japan, so trying to falsify that claim is purely strawman warfare. If they are saying it, they've also badly mangled what looks to have some validity, and merits a quick (easy, and lethal) answer. Sometimes you have to figure out what a preposterous claim actually was before you can deal with it.

The claim is, it seems, that our initial attack on Germany was prior to any attack by Germany on the US that could serve as grounds for war. That is, we pre-emptively attacked Germany in the absence of a provocation, presumably staging the first strike. Similarly, we attacked Iraq before Iraq attacked us, in the absence of any clear provocation.

The easy answer is that Germany declared war on the US, if my 11th grade history teacher was correct (his name I remember as "Dr. Demento" ... maybe his surname was actually Dement?). While it may be argued that the correct response would have been to cable Berlin and say, "Are you sure we can't work this out?", that wasn't the mood at the time, and a declaration of war against you is sufficient provocation to bomb their asses.

[rockymountaindem]

40. There are also some mistakes there...

First of all, when a counrty declares war on you, the opportunity to have prevented the war is over. Yes, Germany stupidly declared war on us immediately after we declared on Japan.

However, to say that the US lacked any other forms of provocation (as if a declaration of war weren't enough), there were other reasons. Two US ships were torpedoed by German submarines earlier in 1941. The USS Kearney was damaged that summer, and the USS Ruben James was torpeoded accidently by captian Erich Topp in U-99 on Haloween night, 1941.

The US could have used either of those as an opportunity to declare war on Germany, but the country wasn't ready for that yet and accepted Germany's apologies for those two incidents.

[Igel]

49. As I wrote the "it seems" I was thinking there were attacks.

But I couldn't put my fingers on them, and didn't want to say there were if there weren't.

One translator's motto (oft used, seldom admitted): Ambiguity is your friend.

This has been a very strange thread.

Thanks for the info.

[rockymountaindem]

66. No prob.

[Yupster]

72. But they were mistakes

The German U-Boat captains were under strict orders not to attack US ships even if they were tailing them and giving their positions away to the British.

[Yupster]

71. We actually were aggressive towards Germany

long before Pearl Harbor.

Our ships and planes were on the look out for U-Boats and if they found them would radio the British toi get them. We would tail them until the British got there to sink them.

Most people think U-Boats travelled under water. This was untrue. At the beginning of the war, the U-Boats could spend very little time under water. It was not till the tail end of the war when the Germans put snorkels on their most modern boats that they could spend significant time under water.

Through most of the war, even during attacks, U-Boats were above water.

The US hunting them down and telling the British where they were was certainly an aggressive act which was long before Pearl Harbor.

You could also argue that the Destroyer Deal was also an aggressive act, but that is more arguable.

[erpowers]

79. Actually

Some Republican are saying that Japan attacked the United States and instead of the United States attacking Japan in response we attacked Germany. They are not saying that we just preemptively attacked Germany, they are saying we attacked Germany instead of Japan.

[TankLV]

39. Nice try - good revisionist history. Do the words "Pearl Harbor" ring a

bell?

Amazing what bullshit passes for supposed fact nowadays.

JAPAN ATTACKED THE US - FIRST!

We finished the job in Japan what THEY started.

Those are the unvarnished facts.

[erpowers]

81. Read the Post Idoit!

The second line of the post says "The idea that the United States did not attack the country that attacked us is totally wrong". What did you think I just put that part about attacking the country that attacked us in there just to write a few words. Do the words "ATTACKED US" ring a bell to you. Read the post before you try to say someone is wrong are trying to put out revisionist history.

[TankLV]

88. Methinks you're the "idoit" (shows in your spelling, BTW!)!

We just made sure we fought the last battle and won.

THE POINT LOST ON YOU IS THAT JAPAN STARTED THE GODDAMN WAR BY ATTACKING THE US! FIRST. UNPROVOKED!

The OP makes it sound like the US just attacked Japan out of the blue for no good reason.

[erpowers]

90. What Is Wrong With You

What the hell is wrong with you? I do not care how you spell it. I never made it look like the United States attacked Japan out of the blue. You just do not want to admit that ot screwed up by not reading the original post. It apears that you did not read the post that you just responded to. If you had you would have realized that I referenced the second sentence that said "To say that the United States did not attack the country that attacked it is totally wrong." Once again why it the hell do you think I put that line in the post? You should try reading the actual posts instead of just reading the titles.

[Zynx]

48. OP needs to read a book. Any history book will do.

Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

Germany declared war on us.

We kicked both of their heads in.

[erpowers]

82. Read the Post Idoit!

I have read a book. Specifically I read the book "Flags of our Fathers". If you would actually read the post before making your own post you would realize that in the second sentence I wrote "The idea that the United States did not attack the country that ATTACKED us is totally wrong". I am just wondering what did you think I put those words in their for? Did you think I was just bored and needed to write a few more words in the post?

[Vinca]

51. Why is it

that when people bomb us it's terrorism, but when we bomb them it's war?

[geek tragedy]

54. It was war when Japan bombed us. Japan was a sovereign state

as opposed to a terrorist organization.

[Vinca]

56. I know, but dropping "the bomb" and incinerating so many.

We've attacked Iraq. If an Iraqi upset about that fact builds a nuke and sends it our way it's okay?

[geek tragedy]

57. The whole "would Japan have surrendered without the nukes" debate

has been discussed to death.

We didn't nuke Japan because we were upset. We did it to force them to surrender.

[Yupster]

I agree but

I have trouble justifying the second bomb just three days ater the first one.

I don't think we gave the Japapanese government time to get down to Hiroshima, get an assessment of what it was dealing with and give it time to get its government together to make such an important decision.

I don't know why they were in such a rush.

Maybe it was to beat the Russians to Korea and parts of Manchuria.

I know we didn't feel we owed the japanese anything, but I wonder why not another week to give them a chance to digest what had happened to them.

[Yupster]

74. I agree but

I have trouble justifying the second bomb just three days ater the first one.

I don't think we gave the Japapanese government time to get down to Hiroshima, get an assessment of what it was dealing with and give it time to get its government together to make such an important decision.

I don't know why they were in such a rush.

Maybe it was to beat the Russians to Korea and parts of Manchuria.

I know we didn't feel we owed the japanese anything, but I wonder why not another week to give them a chance to digest what had happened to them.

[LSK]

55. so what country does Osama work for?

Also who called Pearl Harbor an act of terrorism??? I believe most understood that it was WAR.

[LSK]

52. we bombed Japan in 1942

This was covered in that little known movie PEARL HARBOR starring that unknown actor BEN AFLECK :sarcasm:

[rinsd]

58. But in all fairness, no one really saw that movie ;-) (nt)

[geek tragedy]

59. Those who did really regret it. eom

[Robeson]

60. WW II for Dummies: A Primer in Three Easy Steps....

1) Japan bombed U.S. Military forces at Pearl Harbor - U.S. Territory - with their military forces. This constitutes a Declaration of War. We were thus obliged to return the favor by declaring war on them.

2) Shortly thereafter, Germany declared war on the United States, BEFORE the U.S. delcared war on Germany. At that point, you either fight back or await the takeover of your capital and start sending your income tax checks to Berlin.

3) The Allies beat back Germany and Japan and won the war.

Is that easy enough?

[manic expression]

64. No....in this case.....we ARE Japan...n/t

[PopSixSquish]

70. "Air Raid, Pearl Harbor. This is no Drill!"

At the same time, the Japanese attacked the Philippines, Thailand, Singapore and Hong Kong.

And although, the Battle of Midway stopped the Japanese advance, the landing of the Marines on Guadalcanal in August of 1942 and their subsequent holding of that island against overwhelming odds was probably the true turning point of the war.

[mikelewis]

80. I think they mean, We didn't attack Japan first....

Thier arguement is that Germany hadn't attacked us but it was still justified and militarily experdient for us to attack Germany because they were allied with Japan and a part of the Axis Powers. We immediately declared war on both Germany and Japan after Pearl Harbor. What they're trying to insinuate with these comments is that somehow, Iraq and Al Qeada were allies and when Al Qeada allegedly attacked us on 9/11, it gave us the authority to attack Iraq. It's so utterly ridiculous that only a Republican could dream this one up. It makes you ask the question, "Is our Republicans learning history?"

[erpowers]

83. Not What they Said

They directly said that after Japan attacked the United States we attacked Germany.

[mikelewis]

84. I know but they're repeat Limbaugh....

Limbaugh has made this arguement time and time again. They're trying to link Iraq to Al Qeada without actually saying that. It's stupid but it's all they got. They're grasping at straws to paint this war in any light other than bad.

Everyone knows why we attacked Germany first and not Japan. They can't possibly be saying that we never attacked Japan at all, that's insane. Then again, they are Republicans.

[Redstone]

86. Are you fucking drunk? I hope so, because if you're not,

you're fucking nuts.

sorry to be so harsh, but you're raving and making no sense whatsoever.

Redstone

[erpowers]

91. The Point I was making

The point I was making is that in order for Republican to justify the Iraq war they are saying that the Iraq war is like WWII. For months Democrats/liberals said the war in Iraq was wrong, among other things, in that Iraq never attacked us. Now Republicans are saying that when Japan attacked the United States the United States attacked Germany in response to the attack instead of Japan. Republicans are trying to say that by attacking Germany instead of Japan the United States did in Germany exactly what it did in Iraq. Therefore, the Republicans say the Iraq war is justified. I pointed out that the United States did in fact attack Japan after Japan attacked the United States. Iwo Jima and Okinawa are both places in Japan that we attacked. This proves that, during WWII, the United States did in fact attack the country that attacked it. Therefore, Republicans cannot say that the Iraq war is like WWII.

[Robeson]

93. Why don't you point out, as has repeatedly been pointed out on this....

...thread, that we were in a state of war between BOTH countries because Germany declared war on the United States once we were at war with Japan. Its very simple. At that point, we were in a state of war with BOTH of them, and both were in a state of war with the United States. We DID NOT attack Germany before they declared war on us. Once they did, we had every right to combat any nation we were at war with. Its not that hard to explain.