Kerry says "If you think I would have gone to war, don't vote for me."

[Guaranteed]

Unfortunately, that's not the issue.

The issue is whether or not Bush was going to go to war.

He was going to, we all knew that he was going to, and Kerry's and Edwards' votes rubber-stamped that dangerous and opportunistic policy. They appeased Bush and his warmongering administration and abandoned their duty to represent US, because they were afraid of being called unpatriotic. Now, they're working from an impotent position on the issue, yet somehow are STILL trying to play it off as if they're the most "electable."

The only way to beat Bush is to give him real opposition. Even if he had the inclination to, which he doesn't, as can be seen from his O'Reilly appearance, Edwards can say nothing after his vote. Neither can Kerry. And they shouldn't. They should be ashamed of themselves.

I want real leadership. It's time for the Democratic Party to shed its old, rotting skin, and nominate someone new, with the courage to stand up for what's right when it really matters, not just when it's politically convenient.

[mitchtv]

1. I think that they were afraid tha WMDs would be found

and the Dems woulld have egg on their faces.It was the politically expediant thing to do. As it turned out , now they can say * lied to them,and it apparentlydid not hurt Kerry.

[KissMyAsscroft]

7. Probably wasn't as politically expedient for the dead soldiers.

Fuck Kerry. I'm ABB and will vote that way, but seriously...Kerry can blow me.

[Cheswick2.0]

23. I'll never forget the efforts of the anti war crowd

all over the world people were calling on congress and the senate to stop bush and what do they do? They give a known nut case unlimited power to wage war in Iraq.

[mike_c]

2. thanks for the heads-up...

...and I won't.

[Guaranteed]

4. Me neither.

I'm sick of this crap.

[blm]

3. Trying to keep riling the troops, eh? Resolution is not a war.

If the resolution had been implemented as written, then the weapons inspections would have been allowed to work, and there would have been no use of force.

btw...what is the difference that makes Dean's Biden-Lugar position antiwar and the IWR prowar? Aren't they BOTH resolutions for use of force? Don't they both allow Bush final determination, even if unilateral? Does one letter of notification make B-L antiwar to you?

[creativelcro]

5. I'm a MA resident who's not going to vote for Kerry. Period.

[mitchtv]

22. then we can all thank you(collective) when bush gets in again

just like the Greens in Fla

[isbister]

25. Any particular reason?

[sangha]

6. I disagree

we all knew that he was going to

I was here on DU when the IWR vote was taken. Everyone here most certainly did NOT know that Bush* was going to invade.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=1054331&mesg_id=1058393

[IndianaGreen]

8. Okay, I won't vote for Kerry!

Kerry convinced me that I shouldn't vote for him.

:eyes:

[Loren645]

10. He's saying to take him or leave him. I'll leave him!

Wesley Clark - A Higher Standard of Leadership.

John Kerry - A Higher Standard of Followship.

[milkyway]

11. This line Kerry uses sounds good at first, but is really weak if you

think about it for a second. The vote wasn't asking how Kerry would go to war, it was authorizing Bush to go to war in the way he chooses.

[isbister]

16. incorrect

"The vote wasn't asking how Kerry would go to war, it was authorizing Bush to go to war in the way he chooses."

The IWR set specific conditions for the President to meet for the authorization to be granted.

[Guaranteed]

21. The IWR was given to the president so that he could bring it to the UN

and scare the hell out Saddam. If it had reigned in Bush, how exactly would it have done that? Bush had to have absolute authority.

Don't make excuses for Kerry authorizing Bush to go to war!! Bush wanted a war, and Kerry gave it to him!

[isbister]

26. how exactly would it have done that?

I don't know about scaring Saddam. Didn't Iraq begin agreeing to let the UN back in at the end of September 2002? I think they had some conditions though. Anyway, to light a fire under Saddam and the UN as well.

Bush had to have absolute authority.

He does/did

1) to protect the national security OR

2) if the US or military are directly attacked. Iraq fired at our planes in the "no-fly zone" all... the... time. The Iraqi's were never actually able to hit anything but, how easy would it have been to have faked it. Pretty darn easy if bush/rummy ordered it.

I'm not making excuses for Kerry's vote. The resolution is what it is. I didn't write it or vote for it but can read what it says. I can also read what Kerry's position was at the time he voted. I believe this is an excellent explaination of his vote.

If he flipped and flopped since I might have a different position but he wrote/spoke about this position before and after the vote.

There are three things in my life that I tend not to believe 100% and am sure to double-check the facts before I do (about important things anyway):

My government
The US media
A politician

in no particular order.

When I looked into the position of my state's junior Senator, Kerry, who did vote for it, I was ready to express my disappointment. I read his speech from the floor of the Senate and understood his reasoning. Although I didn't 100% agree with everything, I agreed that his position was well thought out and his argument for voting yes was solid. I also trusted him to do as he said in that speech, speak out if bush was going wrong, and he did.

[blm]

18. So, what in the Biden-Lugar resolution makes Dean antiwar?

You do know he supported Biden-Lugar resolution for use of force, don't you? Well...the only difference was a notification letter to the Speaker of the House and the Senate. So....please tell us how Biden-Lugar was an antiwar position.

[Victor Wong]

12. I'm not a one-issue voter.

edit typo

[isbister]

13. The facts just don't support

what you say about Kerry, repeating it over and over doesn't make it so.

[Guaranteed]

14. You didn't know Bush was dead-set on going to war? nt

[Victor Wong]

15. I thought they had a bunch of WMD's that could get into terrorist hands.

Turns out they didn't.

[Guaranteed]

17. So you supported going to war? nt

[blm]

20. Dean supported use of force as per Biden-Lugar.

You think one letter of notification made Biden-Lugar an antiwar position?

Hahahahaha.....

[isbister]

24. Me? I was pretty darn sure he was.

I think bush was probably headed to Iraq until Congress and the polls told him to go to the UN.

Dealing with Iraq through the UN (as opposed to unilateral action) was overwhelmingly the will of the people at the time.

It took bush and the gang a lot... a... lot... of misleading, and the media's cheerleading, after the IWR vote to convince the American people to support the unilateral invasion.

It wasn't until around/after Powell's UN presentation until the polls turned. Once the polls turned, bush and the gang wrapped things up and invaded.

I believe bush could've went to war with Iraq whether he had the IWR or not. If he didn't want to just invade outright, it would have been easy enough for him to cook up a reason, an "incident" in the "no-fly zone". The Iraqi's were firing at our planes all the time, what would've it taken for someone to fake that they actually hit one of our planes.

[poskonig]

19. The inspectors were not in Iraq during October 2002.

While Kerry takes disarmament seriously, he is not a militarist like Lieberman.