Could Bush & Co be outsmarting us?

[ChairmanAgnostic]

Could they deliberately wanting the anti-war movement to gain steam for a couple of reasons?
It gives them an excuse to pull out the troops "because that is the will of the nation"
thereby giving cover for following national sentiment?

And just as the Dems and moderates start celebrating, a new terror attack, with the Administration pointing at Syria, Iran or Iraq and claiming that our early withdrawal caused the attack.
That would destroy the peace movement, solidify control over america by the neocons, and possibly lead to who knows what? Nothing good, though. loss of civil rights, constitutional protections, etc.

I would not put it past these people to give our movement enough rope and then try to turn it into a noose.

[Justyce]

1. I've thought about them

using it as their excuse to pull out -- 'well, we could've stayed & won, but you people insisted we pull out...' -- but I hadn't thought of the aftermath... yikes. I think I'm getting an ulcer...

[BattyDem]

2. No one could have anticipated Cindy's impact on the country

She was simply the right person with the right message at the right time. :-)

On edit: Oops ... I think I misuderstood what you were saying. I thought you meant that BushCo somehow orchestrated the anti-war movement, but after reading your post again, I realize that you probably meant that they were going to use it to their advantage - which is very likely. They'll use the anti-war sentiment as the excuse to pull-out and when all hell breaks loose in Iraq, they can blame the "libruls" ... that sounds about right. :eyes:

[NAO]

3. Yes, I suspect they are USING the situation for gain in various ways

my post on this topic:

Is Bush using the Sheehan situation for political gain? (consider)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2018777&mesg_id=2018777

Regarding the events of September 11, some people reject outright MIHOP or even the milder LIHOP, but no one doubts that the Bush Administration USED the situation for political gain. They took a disaster and ran with it; they used it as an excuse for everything; they used it to maximize electoral success; they used it to attack their opponents.

Now consider the possibility that when confronted with the Cindy Sheehan situation...Bush's adviser (read Karl Rove) saw countless opportunities for political gain for Bush by NOT meeting with her, at least not right away.

- When was the last time you heard about ROVEGATE in the news? or the DSM? Have you heard a peep about either, even on the extreme left blogs? Or is everyone talking about the Sheehan situation? Just a few weeks back, every newscast every day was about Rove and how he betrayed Plame. Remember how Scotty sweated and stammered in that press conference? Is the Sheehan situation being allowed to happen and even being drawn out to draw fire away from Rove and his criminal acts?

- How often do Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity et al talk about Sheehan and fire up the conservative base by fueling resentment? Nothing fires up the conservative base like resentment. These people took resentment over the civil rights legislation of the 1960s and ran with it, outright calling it a "Southern Strategy". The conservative base has become (slightly) more placid since they got over gloating about the 2004 election. Need to get them fired up before the mid-terms.

- Bush NEEDS to get out of Iraq BEFORE the mid-terms. He needs a pretense for quitting that will save political face. Would he try to paint a (belated, faked) heartfelt response to Cindy Sheehan as a case of him being sympathetic AND responsive to the demands of the American people to get out of Iraq? He He is of course, NOT responsive to the demands of the American people, but if he can do something he WANTS TO DO ANYWAY, and make it LOOK LIKE responsiveness, he will. Is there any BETTER way, from a political angle, for Bush to get out of Iraq? Would anything else make him look better? Would anything else be a such a dramatic pagent?

The callousness, the arrogance, the contempt for the American people, and the Machiavellian manipulation of the Bush Administration are beyond anything ever seen before. Remember the example of 9/11: the death of over 3,000 people and the loss of billions of dollars were VERY CLEVERLY USED, to MAXIMUM POLITICAL BENEFIT.

None of this is meant to denigrate Cindy Sheehan and the fantastic thing she is doing. Everyone is very excited about the grassroots swelling of the anti-war movement, the rallys, etc. I just think we need to consider the possibility that Bush might use ANYTHING to his advantage...and consider the stark contrast in the news coverage from Rovegate 24/7 a few weeks ago to utter silence on the issue now. And consider the counter-protests and the coverage they get. And consider the firing up of the conservative base...and 1000 other things that an evil mind like Karl Rove can use to his benefit in the face of an (apparent) political disaster.

[AndyTiedye]

7. There is ALWAYS SOMETHING Rush Can Use to Fire Up "The Base"

That's his job. If it isn't peacenicks, it's gays. If we threw all
the gays to the lions, they'd come up with something else.

[H5N1]

4. They have definitely mastered the art of outsmarting us

but I don't think bush gives a rat's ass
about the peace movement.
He is focused on the invasion of Iran,
the people be damned.

[TheFarseer]

5. It's very possible

Just like they blame losing Vietnam on hippies, they will blame losing Iraq on Cindy Sheehan and Michael Moore. "We could have won except all those liberals made us pull out early" Guess what guys, just like Vietnam, you are not winning because the people of Iraq are not behind you or at least not behind you enough to help you. I think we are giving them a scapegoat, but small price to pay for an end to the loss of life.

[tridim]

6. It seems like most people are framing the "pull out now" debate

as the lesser of two evils. Pulling out now is not going to solve the problems in Iraq that Bush created by starting his war on a lie. It's clear that we're not helping matters by staying and at the very least, pulling out will save lives.

[wli]

8. they're going to plop down martial law at the next MIHOP anyway

Then Bushler's president for life, dancing on Cheney & Rummy's strings until they groom a new pair of handlers for him.

[Inland]

9. Oh come on, no matter what, bushco is going to blame dems

Unless you think theres a chance at "success" in Iraq, the ONLY question is of blaming.

And we know no matter what, Bush is going to blame democrats and peacenix and Clinton and hippies from the sixties, whether we bug out next week or ten years from now.

Better to take a stand and save some lives than give Bush absolute power to be the "war president" (read, unfettered dictator) for another moment longer than necessary, since there's no war to avoid them spinning it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

10. I don't disagree, but let's look long term

The neocons have been planning this takeover since Bush1. He turned out to be too pragmatic for them, and they pulled the rug from underneath (he had something like 78% approval at one point and still lost?). They were willing to accept Clinton for two terms, as they sharpened their daggers and attacks from before he was even in office. By injuring his presidency and making all about White Water and his penis, they managed to scare and intimidate Dems.
When GWB was unveiled, they had already castrated any potential opponents in the GOP and used their inserted operatives to start with the make-over of the US.

It took years of planning. Do not think that they have no contingency plans to use this movement against America's best interests. These people are too corrupt and power-hungry, and frankly, experienced. They would not have succeeded so far without that ruthless unethical streak they pride themselves on.

[Ravy]

11. Here is the problem with that...

In what way are they delibrately wanting the anti-war movement to gain steam?

Seems to me they are fighting tooth and nail against it.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

14. are they?

All it would have taken was a simple walk by Macho Man, doing his "I am Prez, I am I am" strut to Ms. Sheehan, and it would be over.

These are the same guys that have planned this neocon take over from the time that Bush 1 turned out to be pragmatic and not a true believer. They have castrated the Real GOP, inserted their underground people throughout different parts of government, and made a temporary peace with the ultra right religious groups. They planned this for more than 12 yrs. And they had plenty of contingencies to consider.

You have to admit that they have had the most controlled, most planned and most on-message administration ever. It has been the story of their success. Of Course they have a long range plan. the question is how dangerous will it be to our liberties.

[Quakerfriend]

12. I've thought about this too.

But, once you are on to them. * and co. become pretty transparent, as we all know.

They are starting to realize that their stunts aren't working anymore. It seems that the spin machine is off it's kilter!!

Where is Rove??? Where is ***???

[The Sleeper]

13. where are they ??

Huddled up somewhere trying to figure out what rabbit they can pull out of their bag of tricks....

No, they don't want the anti-war movement to grow. Because they can't control it, and are unable to predict the future. And they have BIG plans for the future....

[Vinca]

15. Do you suppose they're happy about Cindy because

it takes the heat off Rove and the rest of the Plame blabbers? For all we know, Plame goes right to the top and for now no one is talking about it.

[winston61]

16. I don't think they give a shit

about anything but the agenda. The chaos in Iraq has been good for business. Anyone who remembers shit for brains when he was governor of Texas knows he loves nothing more than facilitating 'bidness'. They don't care about public opinion. The coup is over. Remember the stolen elections? They think they are bullet proof and they ain't far from wrong.

[mmonk]

17. No

That's not the PNAC way. Alot of money has been put into the bases which were to launch the war accross the middle east. They may adjust strategy here or there and give out disinformation but not around Sheehan as strategy.

[VIHMH5L50P]

18. ABSOLUTELY! Bush needs the anti-war movement to survive, serious

First, Bush is facing being indicted for treason which carries the death penalty, by Special Prosecutor Fitzgerald and Bush desperately needs to confuse things.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2018482#2018990

(this thread links to a super blogger called CITIZENSPOOK who if you're not familiar with, I think you need to, to put it mildly. He expertly dissects the legal field mines surrounding Bush).

Bush needs to fire up his base to a fever pitch, portraying himself to them as a heroic wartime President and victim of wacko unpatriotic "Bush haters." He might even think about starting another war to distract us all.

If Fitzgerald indicts Bush, a lynch mob of zealots will probably try to portray him as being part of this emerging political anti-war "agenda to frame Bush." What else can Bush do? He can't defend himself legally that's for sure. It will be on the news non-stop.

It also concerns me that much of the media is focusing on the few war protestors who get out of hand or misbehave and try to make all of them look that way.

In my opinion Cindy Sheehan is being used and exploited, otherwise she wouldn't be getting so much coverage.

[JohnnyBoots]

19. It will be a nuke in the northeast or california

[oxbow]

20. The saving of human life is more important than politics

I don't care why we get out of Iraq, as long as we do it. We must then get the rest of the world involved in turning it around. Only then can we succeed in such a massive exercise in nation-building

As for the next MIHOP, we'll be prepared this time. We won't let them get away with it again.