I am thinking of joining the DLC.

[LoZoccolo]

If Kos can make such news with his Kos Liberal Liberation Army*, then so can I this way!

Yay DLC! The DLC is AWESOME!

:bounce:

You can also join the DLC by filling out this form:

https://secure.ga3.org/05/join

_{*Thanks wyldwolf for coming up with this name.}

[davidinalameda]

1. I'll chip in for your flame resistant undies

do we have a duck and cover smiley anywhere

[Canuckistanian]

4. I recommend the Kevlar BVD's in this case

The DLC is not the flavor of the week 'round here.

[TwilightZone]

5. Close enough?

:hide:

[Crunchy Frog]

6. Not a smiley, but...

[Dynasty_At_Passes]

2. There's nothing great about lies......

What has the DLC always said about Iraq? Stay the course and let the businesses handle it. How is it they "think" their plan is going to make Iraq and the world all work out?

[LoZoccolo]

7. DLC vs. non-DLC

[LittleClarkie]

11. Ya ever get the feeling

that some folks would like to lose like McGovern, just as long as their chosen candidate is exactly what they want and nothing they don't want in a candidate.

[LoZoccolo]

15. Yes but then you get to be an 31337 pr0gr3x0r!

l3f7 w1ng d00dz!



That's a picture of ch3gu3v3r4, lead singer of Rage Against The Machine!

[meganmonkey]

98. You bein' silly

:P

[Writer]

24. Arianna Huffington: When the house is on fire...

there's no time to redecorate.

The country has been moving to the right for the last 20 years. Let's grab hold of the reigns first before we can pull the horse back.

Is that enough analogy for you?

[LittleClarkie]

28. Or, more crudely put,

we ain't got time to fuck around.

Get on the bus or find a bus going your way.

The Dems, such as they may be, are the only ticket outta here. As such, if I have to crazyglue the puddy tats together I, Unity Gal, shall hold me party together as best I can.

[kerrygoddess]

45. Great analogy!

Mindboggling... let's just have a bonfire and torch the whole damn party because they don't agree.

[ElectroPrincess]

65. Wow

I know you can be more creative than the above Writer?

It's only the corporate media TELLING us that the country is moving to the right. Once my (and many others) views were deemed moderate. NOW in Bush-World I'm all of a sudden considered a wild eyed leftist?!? Bullshit! The corporate media does not define who I am. Gee, the DLC may have big bucks but they are not welcomed by me and mine.

Bullshit! We have NOT moved to the right save for our rich are getting richer and more selfish - they purchase the politicians through large corporate payola.

If you stand up for the Average American worker, you get labeled a Communists.

I despise the DLC and wish they would just GO AWAY!

[Guaranteed]

40. The feeling I get is that we want to win.

And have you noticed the way things have been going lately?

[LittleClarkie]

50. Yeah but

can YOU picture, for example, Dennis Kucinich as president? God bless him, but all I see when I look at him is a big electoral goose egg.

At least Kerry got relatively close.

But I must say, perhaps the fight within the party has to happen. Maybe the party will become stronger, with the winner leading the way and the loser leaving to form another party, perhaps.

I hope so. I just hope that while that process is underway, that we don't end up with something just as bad for president next time.

George Allen, anyone?

[Guaranteed]

55. It's a fine line between the DLC whores

and the Kucinich's.

The candidates are out there, though.

[ElectroPrincess]

67. McGovern was a true patriot and war hero.

I was not old enough to vote for him when he ran, but I would have been honored to have had him serve as our President.

Oh! That's right, all that matters is winning and the investor class. Sorry, I just can't stay "on message." :puke:

[Name removed]

88. Deleted message

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[ElectroPrincess]

94. Don't call me "girl" - proud to be an independent "woman" not an ornament

And BTW if getting another multi-millionaire with pro-corporate philosophy JUST BECAUSE we choose to term them Democrat is what you are advocating, count me OUT!

Too bad if you are, in fact, accurately representing your financial situation, that the "power brokers" (those who are at least upper middle class) of the DLC are taking your a** for a "wild ride." You know what they say? The DLC never met a large organization they didn't like. The workers benefit from low wage labor in the DLC's bizarro view of the economical system.

See you in the unemployment line CITIZEN. :P

[LittleClarkie]

100. No, I want a man named John Kerry whom I don't think fits your description

I'm not DLC. I do remember the Clinton years as being decent enough. But I'm not DLC. I'm Democrat. And a unity person. Just as I joined it looks like the party is breaking up.

Could it be my deodorant?

I like Kerry, and I'm pinning my hopes on Dean growing some grassroots. If that makes me DLC, then somebody's been lying to me about Howie.

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

103. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

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[ElectroPrincess]

117. user self delete ... :-)

[ElectroPrincess]

118. BTW citizen ...

You are sadly misinformed.

[LittleClarkie]

119. About?

Could you specify?

[Name removed]

121. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

123. Deleted message

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[NMDemDist2]

126. enough already! n/t

[NMDemDist2]

125. enough already! n/t

[Dynasty_At_Passes]

18. I don't understand your point....

So now the only reason to stick with DLC is they can "win"?

:shrug:

They've won a couple and so now they "win"?

Talk about backwards logic. :eyes: Hackett and company, not to mention most of our congress were not DLC and they won and won big.

Plus lets take into account 62% of the country is against the Iraq war, not 40%. If all of the votes came on paper ballots, and the Paul Hacketts ran in every race, like the recent seat won in south carolina....

Democrats would win virtually every seat, and take away all the votes from the DLC. They would because everyone who refuses to vote since DLC came to take over, would choose to vote for the candidate representing the common man.

Your logic works backwards and defeats itself. Sorry.

[LoZoccolo]

20. Is 62% for immediate withdrawal?

Oh.

[OrwellwasRight]

51. They've won a couple what?

The only reason "some" progressives voted for Nader in 2000 is that Gore ran to the middle in emulation of Clinton. Gore lost. Unfairly, but he lost. He didn't have the cushion to beat the cheating FLA bastards.

Kerry ran so far to the middle I wasn't sure he even stood for anything. He too lost (yup, they cheated again, but again, he could have beat the margin and beat the cheating, but instead he left $10 M unspeant. WTF?).

We have lost seats in every Congressional election save one since 1994, so where are these "couple of DLC victories"?

In any case, how many MORE times are we going to run a center candidate, lose, and be told by the DLC that we have to move farther to the right to win??

When the Rpublicans are truly Nazis and we are today's Republicans, will that be far enough to the right?

Isn't there an old phrase about the definition of insanity being doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome?

[wyldwolf]

62. Your post is interesting to me because...

..strategists claim Gore lose because he DID NOT emulate Clinton and ran away from the Clinton record.

I've read other posts on DU that claim Gore was losing badly but then turned away from the Clinton record and shot up in the polls.

Fist time I've seen anyone claim Gore lost because he tried to emulate Clinton.

Up until and during the Clinton years, Gore was always a tad more conservative than Clinton.

[OrwellwasRight]

96. I don't think it is totally off the charts to compare Clinton and Gore.

But I definitely see your point.

As you know, it is really hard to get a read on "the truth" by examining polls (e.g. did the 2004 election turn on "family values," "homeland security," or simple Republican cheating with the black box voting?--probably a combination of all three).

I do think I have a somewhat unique take on Gore compared to what seems to be the conventional wisdom about his performance in 2000.

I agree there was a "turning away" from Clinton in the sense that Gore did not want to be besmirched by the Monica-gate scandal.

On the other hand, I think Gore emulated Clinton in the "let's triangulate, let's be to the center" sense. From my knowledge of his record, he is actually a lot greener and pro-environment than he ran. He also didn't come down hard with a lot of traditional populist Democratic themes (as say, people like RFK, LBJ, and even Mondale were known for), e.g., no big plank for universal health care as opposed to incremental CHIP plans.

But, yes, from what I can remember of Gore in the pre-Clinton years, he had been known for Tipper's efforts to label records, for being strong on foreign policy, and for his environmenalism.

I think our party's biggest failure from the Clinton years was the failure to learn that his success was not really based on the popularity of his policies, which were all over the board, but his personal charisma.

I think both Gore and Kerry lacked that personal charisma and so tried to emulate his middle-of-the-road stances instead. To me, what the Kerry-Gore staffs failed to realize is that it is not Clinton's centrism that is popular. Moreover, Clinton never won a majority (winning percentages of 43% and 49%).

I'm not saying Clinton was evil, but I think he left our party weaker and rudderless.

Dean, e.g., is not as liberal as many believe, but at least he took some important stands. Apparently, some Dem voters were afraid of boldness (as if it might lead to another Hillary-sized healthcare debacle). We have to get over that fear and be willing to stand for something.

[mrdmk]

152. As a matter of fact, look who Al Gore choose for his running mate

Mr. Useless himself, need I say more.

Moving further to the right makes corporations happy, lets not kid ourselves.

Also to mention about the Iraq war, 58% of the American public feel that the Iraq war was a mistake. That is off the top of my head.

[OrwellwasRight]

154. Yup, another move to the middle.

But somebody tried to tell me in another thread recently that Lieberman is a real liberal because he's pro-choice.

Whatever. :shrug:

Anyway, maybe we need to keep explaining to people that Gore didn't lose because he was too far left.

Although I am not sure how that is a viable their is anyway. I mean, if Gore was so far to the left, why would some folks have defected to Nader?

[mrdmk]

155. Exactly, Mr. Gore won the election, that is a fact

But if Mr. Gore took the White House the Republicans would be in deep shit with the release of the Reagan Presidential Papers and then the Bush Sr. Presidential Papers. Mr. Clinton and Democrats did the Republicans a big favor with not pursuing the S & L Banking Scandal (as a matter of showmanship, the Republicans attempted to put the blame on Clinton with the White Water deal) and the Iran Contra Scandal which if became public would probably have the average citizen lose all confidence in the government. The Bush Jr. Administration is an act of desperation on the part of the Republicans.

[iwantmycountryback]

44. Clinton made the DLC

Clinton getting elected had nothing to do with DLC strategy. He just had that folksy appeal and charisma and people voted for him for that. People will vote for someone with strong convictions and beliefs. DLC'ers don't have those. They just take Repub-lite positions and make zero effort to come up with their own views.

[fujiyama]

72. Exactly

The DLC takes too much credit for Clinton's personal charisma and political skills.

[renie408]

91. Phar Lap

This is what I call "Phar Lap Syndrome". Phar Lap was a fabulous racehorse who won evertyhing he was put in, no matter what weight they put on him. His trainer was an abusive psycho nutjob who had some really whacked out excessive training methods. He broke down every other horse he ran, but Phar Lap was a freak of nature. After Phar Lap's death, his trainer had a brief time where everybody wanted to send him their horses. But he never had another success like Phar Lap. But that's because Phar Lap's success didn't have anything to do with him. Phar Lap would have won no matter who trained him or how. He was just that fast and strong.

So, if you are still following this convoluted analogy, Bill Clinton is like Phar Lap. He is a natural politician and a born winner. He won despite the DLC, not because of it.

[OrwellwasRight]

97. Great analogy.

I may have to read up on Phar Lap so I can use that.

Didn't he die a tragic death after coming to the US to race or am I mixing it up with Seabiscuit?

[renie408]

147. Yeah

He came to do some match races with the top US horses of the time. He colicked and died soon after arriving. There was a lot of suspicion that he was poisoned. But I would imaigine that the stress of traveling from Australia to here around 1930 would be enough to colic any horse. I don't think they ever proved foul play.

[OrwellwasRight]

149. Thanks for the info. Sad story. n/t

[Cha]

130. Clinton = Phar Lap!

Precisely!

[LittleClarkie]

132. I have seen some Bill lovin' spilling over onto Hillary

I wonder if it will be enough. But yeah, the popularity of either one has little to do with the DLC.

[mrdmk]

153. Clinton, Gore and other Southern Democrats made the DLC

I think the DLC was a way for the Democrats to improve in the south, not to become an extension (graff) of major corporations.

[ElectroPrincess]

63. NAFTA ... Illegal Immigration ... Abject Poverty! ... I rest my case

Bill Clinton, by just supporting NAFTA has trashed the once viable "American Dream." However, he was one of the best Republican Presidents.

Screw the corporate (republican wing of the democratic party) DLC! :puke:

[AJH032]

87. if Clinton was republican...

then damn, maybe those repubs are right. Because just look at his record.

[ElectroPrincess]

95. Yeah, that NAFTA really helped the working class, aye? /eom

[AJH032]

116. Look at his RESULTS

Declining poverty, higher employment, record economic growth, etc... If it was "Republican Bill Clinton's" policies that made that happen, then I guess Republicans are right after all.


Now, sarcasm aside, just because he doesn't fall into your line of thinking on everything doesn't mean he's not a Democrat.

[ElectroPrincess]

120. He's not a democrat, people are UNDER-employed ...

BTW I wouldn't vote for Clinton's successor, Kerry again if you held a loaded gun to my head. He's all DLC ... ALL THE TIME. I was an idiot to vote for him in 2004, not ever again. :-)

[AJH032]

124. you're definition of democrat is wrong then

Sorry that you can only include those who agree 100% with you. Sad, actually.

[ElectroPrincess]

128. No, my only criterion for a "good democrat" is represent the PEOPLE

ABOVE ... that's BEFORE you give out corporate welfare.

That's not a rigid definition by any stretch of the imagination. :hi:

[mattclearing]

74. That was a loooong time ago.

When Hillary dies in the primaries, perhaps y'all will stop clinging to this myth.

Clinton was Clinton, and the DLC didn't have nearly as much to do with it as you'd like to have us think.

[LittleClarkie]

129. From your mouth to God's ear

I generally agree that most of Bill's success came directly from Bill, and Hillary ain't Bill. They may have an organization that is useful in an election, but their philosophy ain't magic for getting someone elected. Bill is just that good a politician.

I thought it was interesting when I asked someone why Kerry was on the list, when he didn't seem to quite fit somehow (too liberal). The comment came back that he'd only just joined right before he announced, so as to take advantage of their support. Hrm. Didn't do him all that much good, did it.

[mattclearing]

151. It seemed to save him from Dean's fate, for what it's worth. n/t

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

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[SeanQ]

157. The DLC didn't make Clinton

They supported him, and he certainly liked some of their ideas. But he only just recently started directly working with them when Hillary joined up. At least that's my best read so far have been googling around and reading their articles.

[newsguyatl]

3. i thought you and wyldwolf

were already proud, paying members :shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

9. I'm not, he might be.

Just because someone posted it on a message board, doesn't mean it's true!

[Writer]

No. Wyldwolf, LoZoccolo and I are all supposed to be paid propagandists!

Each morning, at around sunup, we meet in Central Park with the news heads of NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, and CNN to plan the day's news. Then we climb into our Hummer and bulldoze our way down to DC to eat cats and sacrifice virgins to our goddess Central-ah at the doorstep of the DNC Headquarters.

Then we all get together at the Capitol Pub and Brewery and drink American brews... hey, maybe that's the giveaway... our beer is too conservative!

Hey, guys, next time, be sure to toss down a Guinness or something. You know, to maintain the cover. ;)

[LoZoccolo]

17. Z DLC 0wnZ y00z!

w3 w1ll 1nf1ltr8 w1th l4tt3s 4nd dr1v3 v0lv0z 4 di5gu1z3!

[Writer]

21. DLC RJkjgoj 3j6jk 54kln gklj lj54j5/p'flk

Flibbit korbum flurp. DLC z 2 k3wl!

[mattclearing]

76. Your story has holes...Everyone knows it's the Cap City Brewery.

You probably hang out at one of them fancy places. :D

[lateo]

78. It wouldn't suprise me at all about Myldwolf..

[Skidmore]

90. Was that your Hummer my daughter just called me about?

She flips Hummers off when she sees them but today saw one that dissolved her into laughter so hard she cried. Said it was covered with stickers promoting conservation and the environment. Said she thought the owner was trying to disguise it as a Prius.

[Writer]

16. Dupe.

Pa-dupe!

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[nirvana3240]

8. If you're serious, its not necessarily a bad thing.

I dont think the DLC is half the villian Kos makes it out to be.

[Writer]

27. The GOP must be loving this.

They now have a good number of online Democrats hating a group that brought the only winning Democrat two-term president since FDR.

Yeah, the GOP. Remember them? The real enemy.

[burythehatchet]

79. Please disabuse yourself of the notion that the GOP is the enemy

its not. The enemy is the group of people who promote the policies that are in place now. That group includes almost all republicans AND a number of select democrats on any particular issue. The enemy is bought politicians, corporatists and religious fanatics. Its in their best interests for you to believe that the GOP is the enemy.

[Mythsaje]

10. That's right!

Who needs populism? We want BOTH our parties controlled by corporate interests. :sarcasm:

[OrwellwasRight]

23. Amen, Mythsaje. n/t

[Guaranteed]

12. You're going to have to learn their new slogan (coined by me).

It's a pretty easy one, though: "Fuck the DLC!"

It's a winner. :)

[LoZoccolo]

14. I like this one better.

Yay DLC! The DLC is AWESOME!

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Guaranteed]

32. Well, I coined it for use by the DLC.

:P

It's been around for awhile, though.

[Adelante]

13. Heh

I wonder how many DUers are being driven into the arms of the DLC by sheer annoyance.

[Writer]

19. Hey, that's why everytime I see yet another DLC alarmist thread...

I just sit back and roll my eyes. At some point the sacred cow dies.

[AntiCoup2K4]

38. That would be difficult for some.....

It's hard to "drive" somewhere when you have been there all along.

[Adelante]

46. How do you know where anybody's been?

You don't. I don't.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

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[LoZoccolo]

54. DLC talking points like this?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1532944#1533450

You can see I was way anti-Dean as well:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=1866#1919

You got me figured out though...good to see you've done your research about my day one.

[Cha]

131. Easily led around

DUers?

[OrwellwasRight]

22. I think they have drugs that can fix that.

Clinton won the presidency with 43% (1992) and 49% (1996). So this is the model we want to follow?

He left a legacy of NAFTA, TANF, and no progress on healthcare, civil rights for gays, or reform of grazing or mining fees.

He left a Democratic Party that had no idea what it stood for. It had forgotten how to speak up for the little guy because it had become too good at competing with the Repugs for business donations.

Because we lost our economic populism and are afraid to take on the corporations head-on, we are reduced to a pro-DLC wing that debates who to sell out first, the women or the gays, and the anti-DLC wing that has to defend its sanity when it denies that Clinton is the second-coming.

Thanks, Bill Clinton! :hi:

[LoZoccolo]

25. "He left a Democratic Party that had no idea what it stood for."

You say that but Gore 0wned!



If it weren't for him, you wouldn't even be talking to me now.

[Guaranteed]

26. Would you support Gore in the primaries? nt

[LoZoccolo]

30. Over Bill Bradley?

Sure.

[Guaranteed]

34. For 2008. Say, over Biden, Clinton, Edwards, or any

others?

[LoZoccolo]

37. Shore.

He won in 2000...he could probably get more now.

Biden...nobody knows him really.
Hillary...probably too polarizing. The right-wing has this backlog of stuff about her and are obsessed with her; they could mount a pretty elaborate attack pretty quickly.
Edwards is cool, great speaker, loved him during the debates...but he's too green (as in, not so much political experience). Maybe if he'd stuck around in the Senate, that'd be cool.

But see how I build my argument around getting elected? Because any of them are better than Bill Frist, or even John McCain!

[Guaranteed]

42. Well, damn. LoZo, we're gonna have to get together.

;)

I think Gore would make an excellent President.

BullGooseLoony and LoZoccolo- building bridges to the 21st Century. :)

[OrwellwasRight]

31. i don't know what that means.

Sorry for being obtuse. Gore owned what and why wouldn't we be talking?


if I didn't have to explain (yet again) why we shouldn't sell out reproductive rights or gay rights, then that would be OK with me. There are happier topics.

[LoZoccolo]

35. Gore 0wn3d Bush*.

Even Lieberman, who people think is DLC bad guy #1, is pro-choice, and since voting for Nader was voting for Bush* in 2000, going against the DLC meant working against pro-choice.

[OrwellwasRight]

48. Lieberman may have been pro-choice,

but he was also pro-war and pro-business.

And I voted for Gore, btw, so let's not get into all that about "it is your fault Bush is president." I hope that is over.

There were multiple factors that led to the 2000 debacle: butterfly balllots, Katherine Harris's purge-o-rama, Jews for Buchanan, Gore not carrying Tennesee, the Electoral College system, the Supreme Coronation (I mean Court), just to name a few.

Even so, I defend to the death (a la Voltaire) anyone's right to vote for Nader in 2000 (as I had in 1996). If that is your preference, it is your right to vote it. However, I told people not to (because I could see how much more evil Bush would be that Dole would have been had my vote caused an R win in 1996).

In any case, Roemer, Casey, and many other DLC types are not female-friendly and they hope to win the majority by abondoning the right of women to control their own bodies.

Agreeing with the Repubs on bankruptcy "reform," limiting access to the courts for the redress of wrongs (so-called "tort reform"), and CAFTA (which contains anti-environmental Chapter 11 provisions just like NAFTA) are not progressive, people-friendly positions. They are business-friendly, Republican positions.

And yet DLC Dems in Congress support them. That's a big bummer for me.

[Robeson]

33. But your argument isn't going to have any impact on a DLC'er, ....

...because they are conservatives like Clinton, so they're for those very things you've listed. That would be like calling a Southern Baptist a fundamentalist. Hell, Southern Baptist are proud of that label.

[OrwellwasRight]

39. You're probably right, but certain defeat has never really stopped me

from trying before.

And, on the other hand, I find that many, if not most, of the DLC-types that I know (yes, I know, not a scientific sample) are reluctant DLCer's.

Somehow they are convinced that the DLC is the winning choice, so they go with it because they want to beat Bush, but they really would like (or say they would like) the party to be more environmental, populist, pro-choice, and pro-civil rights.

Perhaps those are just words, but for many, I think they are willing to leave the DLC if we can show them the futility of the DLC way.

So I keep trying to show them. And yes, it makes my head hurt.

[enough already]

Thank you

I've said since Clinton sold us out on healthcare in '93 that he was the worst thing that ever happened to the party.

[OrwellwasRight]

144. I agree.

He was successful for 8 years, but left the party in shambles.

Eye to eye, enough, eye to eye. :pals:

[johnaries]

36. Don't you mean the RLC?

Republican Lite Committee?

On edit, maybe it should be the DLoLC - Democratic Lack of Leadership Committee.

[Robeson]

47. Well, you have to admit, that it does make the transition easier for...

...them, before they actually start voting for Republicans. Kind of a first baby-step type thing...

[johnaries]

57. And what makes you think they're not ALREADY voting Republican?

or at least WITH Republicans? :shrug:

[Robeson]

58. Nothing at all.

[johnaries]

59. Sad, ain't it?

:hi:

[Gyre]

41. Well, that sucks

You have to give them $ to give them some free advice. Kinda like chimps "pioneers" I guess.:(

Gyre

[democracyindanger]

43. Yay! Cindy Sheehan is anti-American!

It must be the bestest, truest, most Democraticest opinion because Will Marshall says so! We can win in Iraq! Whee! The current political environment hasn't changed since 1992! Yahoooooo! Up with Al From! Down with European-loving, America-hating liberal elite Cindy Sheehan! We don't need to ensure US soliders and their families are taken care of, we just have to make them feel like they're "honored!" Giving them fair pay, education and health care is just pandering! Yippee! We don't even need to actually read what Marshall wrote, we just need to automatically defend the l33t haxx0r DLC because they made sense 10 years ago! Awesome cool!

[AntiCoup2K4]

52. That treasonous fucking criminal pig Marshall is dissing Cindy Sheehan??

Goddamn I want to kick that PNAC'ers ass every time he opens his lying traitorous mouth. He pisses me off more than the Chimp, because he spews the exact same fascist Likudist bullshit, but he claims to be a democrat while doing it.

[democracyindanger]

53. Well, he said that the anti-war movement

is based in anti-Americanism, and he didn't exclude Cindy so she must be one.

Come on! Everybody join the DLC! Or at least defend it in kneejerk fashion! It's so cool and fun, because you don't have to make any cogent defense of what Marshall wrote, you just have to mock anybody that gets into specifics! You can make ignorance of detail a cool thing! Waaaahooooo!

[jonnyblitz]

56. yep...all of us anti-war vets are un-american also..

those DLC chickenhawk fuckers are a hoot.

[fujiyama]

73. I've never seen the DLC apologists defend Marshall or From's

comments, because they know if they said what those two said, they would get their asses tombstoned, and they would deserve it.

I'm not saying the apologists necessarily even believe what Marshall and From said (in fact I know several would disagree with them) - some may not have heard them. But after hearing from the right how it's Anti-American and unpatriotic to be against the war, I'm sure as hell not going to hear the same thing from self desribed "democrats".

I really don't want to purge the party or kick out moderates. I think there is a lot of common ground between us, but until they stop blaming liberals for every defeat, stop pandering to corporations in fucking over working people, and stop calling those of us that realized correctly that Iraq had NOTHING to do with national security, I say they can go fuck themselves.

[democracyindanger]

84. 'Thing is, Marshall, From--the guys who run the DLC--

aren't moderates. The majority of elected reps and candidates that identify themselves aren. But in the Playskool understanding some folks around here have of politics, because their fave pols are listed on the DLC website, the DLC must be defended at all costs.

[fujiyama]

146. I've got that impression too

I'm not quite the ardent opponent of the DLC that some are around here (I do like some members despite their membership) and I understand why some would join them - just for the money that helps keep them in office.

But their constant use of scapegoating liberals as the reason Dems lost is what sets me off the most. I also am disgusted with their use of RW talking points (no different than the likes of Hannity or Limbaugh) in attacking anti war activists as unpatriotic or anti-American.

[Mass]

60. Good, that way you can explain to Marshall, From, and others

that they dont need to attack fellow democrats because they are anti-war or because they try to oppose Bush.

This thread is a silly as previous ones in the other direction, IMHO.

[Placebo]

61. I'm in!

Student membership here I come! :woohoo:

[jonnyblitz]

86. so why aren't you enlisting in the military ?

since you are so enamored of these pro-war assholes..

[Placebo]

115. When did they say they were pro-war?

And isn't that a pretty moot issue at this point, now that we're in Iraq? This isn't 2003 is it? :shrug:

[Cha]

134. Yeah, if they love the dlc so

much..better heed their call to send more Troops to Iraq.

Put up or Shut up!

[wyldwolf]

64. A t-shirt design for the Kos Liberal Liberation Army

[ElectroPrincess]

66. Kudos most especially to LoZoccolo!

You must have sent PMs?

All the usual DLC luvin' members are suited up and "on task" within this thread. In full support of their blessed corporate DLC. Yep, all three of them. :hi:

On Edit: Oops! My bad, make that "four of them" for I forgot our BullGooseLooney. Sorry. ;)

[LoZoccolo]

77. Ha ha ha ha nice slogan! n/t

[democracyindanger]

85. Hooray! Funny!

Now we DLCers have a T-Shirt! Super giggly! This is awesome! Down with liberals! Yay for war! DLCers have the most fun! We're so smart and hee-hee-heelarious! Just look at our t-shirt! It proves it!

[jonnyblitz]

89. LMFAO

"We are so smart, we are in the wrong party!!!" *giggle*

[xchrom]

68. who cares?

[Q]

69. I hope you enjoy their Newsletter...

...because that will be the extent of your 'involvement' with the DLC. They'll have your money and you'll have a propaganda rag fit to line a birdcage.

As a regular defender of the DLC...you and the other apologists are getting desperate with these threads making light of the fact that MANY Democrats don't want the DLC's corporate influence in THEIR party. What's do difficult to understand about that?

We have to ask: what does the DLC bring to the table? Hatred and scorn for Liberals and Progressives? We already have the RWingers for that. An agenda that wins the WH? All they can point to is Clinton...and he campaigned as a populist most of the time and only pushed DLC policy once he was in office.

The 'new' Democrats got into trouble when they began labeling mainstream Democrats as the 'loony left' when they objected to Bush and his DLC defenders lying about the need to attack and occupy a country that had NOTHING to do with 9-11 or the war on terrorism.

And now we have a very small group on DU that runs around trying to rationalize these lies...insistng that we must vote for liars and hypocrites if we want to regain the majority. Many just don't believe this is the case. We believe that we can have truth and integrity AND win elections...if only the DLC and their corporate cash would allow an even playing field and stop helping the Right smear Progressive candidates.

The DLC is HURTING and dividing our party. They started this 'war' and we're going to finish it.

By the way...I hope you enjoy your DLC Newsletter. That's all you will ever get from your membership in the corporate wing of the party.

[sendero]

70. Some folks think..

.... the standard Repug trick of ridicule is going to work here.

Naw, one can act like a buffoon but most of us still know malignant when we see it.

Oh and by the way, Clinton won because Perot split the puke vote. The second time, he won because people liked him. Even after the most "liberal" of his two terms, people liked him. Go figure.

[Roland99]

71. My Sarcasm Detector 2000 must need new batteries

[fujiyama]

75. Have fun and good luck

I think most of us what the party to win.

But, here's a suggestion, instead of mindlessly defending everything the DLC does, why not objectively try defending From and Marshall's nasty attacks on liberals.

I also would like you to defend his recent statements that only by supporting this war can Dems show they are strong on defense or that those protesting the war are unpatriotic or anti American, or that national security isn't natural to Dems, or that fighting for veterans benefits is only a superficial way of supporting the troops, or...

And no, the picture of Clinton winning and Mondale losing doesn't count. Clinton didn't win because of some great wisdom in the DLC, but because of his own political skills and charisma.

[Larkspur]

81. Good. Put all the Dem losers in one group and it will be easier to

eliminate them.

[Douglas Carpenter]

83. If you support neocon foreign policy and oppose workers rights go right

ahead. Just don't call yourself a progressive or pretend that you're voting for change.

[Cha]

133. And don't forget to join up

at your nearest recruiting agent to bolster the dlc's call for more Troops in Iraq!

[Chicago Democrat]

92. I was a founding member.... Can I Unfound-It?

Honestly sounded like a good idea at first. Then they started doing everything I hated!



I'm sorry folks. Clinton wanted me to do it so I was a big donor back in 92 when it started.

[jonnyblitz]

93. I met a student DLCer at an Al Franken book signing,

we were standing in line waiting for our books to be signed and all she could do was talk about what a radical leftist Hillary was and how she was giving the party a bad name. :wtf:

i felt like i was talking to a freeper.

[Chicago Democrat]

137. I'm a liberal

who happened to be in corporate America....

So they targeted us.. and cater to us. But I ain't buying! (so many do)


I didn't drink the cool aid... DLC IS COOL AID! Don't Drink it!

[wyldwolf]

138. Back in '92 when it started? Interesting...

..because the DLC was founded in 1985.

[Chicago Democrat]

139. Well maybe I wasnt a founding member, but Clinton

made a pitch and I bought in 1992...


BUT THEN THEY GOT BIG... I feel totally betrayed as a democrat

[wyldwolf]

141. oh, ok... so...

now we know you weren't a founding member.

Did Clinton ask you personally? You said "he wanted me to do it."

Or maybe you just got a form letter...

[Chicago Democrat]

142. No! He said you can be my super secret special Democratic

Leader!

Wow cool...


In the vanguard...


neato!

only 50 bucks..


Hey it was no form letter... It was a personal relationship based on me giving them money and them screwing me and my freinds!

[wyldwolf]

143. right

:)

[meganmonkey]

99. Y'all need a drink

or something :shrug:

Way too serious. It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

[LSK]

101. the Democratic Loosers Council???

That DLC??????? The one committed to making the GOP stronger?

[LittleClarkie]

108. Loser. On edit: I mean, the word is "loser" not you.

I don't think they're particularly loose, no.

[LSK]

110. damn! I'm always misspelling that word somehow n/t

[LittleClarkie]

111. No worries, takes me a minute to sort them out myself

loose
lose
loss
blah.

Originally, I just put down "loser", then I realized you might think I was calling you that.

[LSK]

112. good thing I didnt check back here for a while then

No worries :hi:

[fedupinBushcountry]

104. I'm just a DEMOCRAT

I don't need any labels. Now who said "I'm a uniter not a divider" ? Seems like some here are following a bad example. Can't we all just get along.:argh:

[mmonk]

106. the last thing this country needs

is two republican parties.

[ieoeja]

109. Yes!

Do we believe Liberalism is best for this country? Of course! But if we're liberals, we won't get elected. And we don't want to do what we believe is best for this country. We just want the job.

That's what it is all about, right? We aren't interested in moving this country forward, just in getting elected, right?

I don't understand why these non-DLCers just can't see that.

[Name removed]

113. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

114. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[OzarkDem]

122. Why doesn't the DLC disband

and go to work for Center for American Progress. They have a lot of good policy work going on over there. It reminds me of what the DLC used to be like- creative, challenging, passionate about good public policy.

[Adelante]

127. So which side

is getting all the Deleted posts? Or are both being obnoxious? :)

[jonnyblitz]

135. yikes..looks like one of mine was deleted..so that would be

one for the anti-DLC side as being obnoxious...:P

if i checked further there are probably more of mine deleted..I am pissed about them.

[bvar22]

136. I'm joining up too!

because Corporate Feudalism is so much more romantic than Democratic Capitalism!



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR!

[Arkana]

140. Flame-retardant suit, anyone?

[AuntPatsy]

145. Not me, I need to feel the fire, interesting thread. Learning alot.

[Hippo_Tron]

148. I'm not joining anything that requires me to pay for membership

[LoZoccolo]

150. So you would never join a union?

Or even Costco?

[ElsewheresDaughter]

156. you're gonna be carbonized....put on your asbestos underwear