last chance to save the world - are the Democrats too timid ??

[welshTerrier2]

most Americans are unaware about the actions of their government overseas ... there's no hiding "the big stuff" like sending more than 100,000 troops to Iraq ... but the "little stuff", which is dark, evil and not at all "little", is way off the radar ... at the end of this rant, there's a link to an article from a newspaper in The Netherlands that suggests the US is suspected in causing revolutions in Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan and Georgia ...

THIS HAS GOT TO CHANGE !!! do you hear that Democrats? ... if "the left" calls the Democratic Party "corporatists" and claims they are no better than the republicans (which i don't agree with), this is the reason why ... US oil interests are directing US foreign policy for the sole benefit of their stockholders ... our military and our intelligence networks are being used as nothing more than a private, corporate militia ... the motivation is pure, unadulterated greed; not the best interests of the American people ...

if assassination, revolution and imperialism are to be done in all our names to further OUR NATIONAL INTEREST and the acquisition of oil that we don't own, then let's put that issue before the American people ... what is being done now to damage America's reputation in the world and to further the greedy interests of profiteering oil companies is being done without the knowledge or consent of the American people ... this is NOT how democracies should work ... especially "democracies" with the power to exploit, dominate and control most of the weaker countries in the world ... we in the US have the greatest responsibility and the greatest opportunity to evict the corporate tyrants and imperialists from power ...

America's abusive foreign policy, being run under the auspices of big oil, is putting our country in very great danger ... as both India and China become increasingly industrialized and heavily dependent on oil, the US is racing toward a desperate confrontation with both countries ... the consequences of this are unimaginable ...

several things have to happen to reverse this trend assuming that it isn't already too late ...

first, the politics ... i cannot overemphasize this point ... Democrats need to awaken Americans to the dark realities we face ... they have got to start telling the American people the truth about the exploitation being ordered and orchestrated by big oil, the imperialism of American foreign policy, and the risks we face if we, the Democrats, are not empowered to stop the neo-cons and their corporate masters from carrying out their plans ... we have to go way beyond the nuanced positions of ANWR, global warming, and ATV's in the national parks ... each of these positions is critical but they do not educate Americans about the urgency of avoiding global conflict over oil and alienating every other country on the planet with our imperialist foreign policy ...

second, we have to convince Americans that we need to make major changes in our energy policy ... job one: conservation ... Americans used to value this ... they don't anymore ... it's like the whole country has been hypnotized into buying gas guzzling vehicles ...

and finally: a major investment in research and technology for alternative energy sources ... and to be clear, i am very concerned about the insanity that seems to be taking hold about "nuclear has to be in the mix" ... no, it does NOT ...

Democrats are ineffective in alerting the nation to the dangers we face because to do so requires them to tell Americans the "uncomfortable" truth ... to make matters worse, much of the truth will be "new news" and therefore not readily accepted by many ... and to make matters even worser (is that a word?), republicans will have a field day labeling Democrats as anti-American ... but we can no longer be dissuaded from doing what must be done ... our country's future and global peace hang in the balance ... the old Einstein quote should guide Democrats in their deliberations about this: "I know not of what weapons WWIII will be fought, but WWIV will be fought with sticks and stones."

to remain silent out of fear when we know the truth and its consequences would be the greatest failure of leadership in our nation's history ... let's not do that, Democrats ...

source: http://www.watchingamerica.com/nrchandelsblad000005.html

It is very significant to see this battle for oil resources develop in Kazakhstan. The world’s most substantial proven oil reserves may lie under the sands of the Arabian Peninsula, but the most promising region for development is the southern portion of the former Soviet Union. China already has oil interests in neighboring Kazakhstan and a CNPC built pipeline between the two countries will soon be complete, and the powers that be in Kazakhstan are generally positive about closer ties with the Chinese. The new pipeline frees the country from its dependency of Russia. On the other hand, its ties with the United States are ambivalent at best, because the Kazakh authorities suspect U.S. influence behind revolutions in Ukraine, Kyrgyzstan and Georgia. Trying to reduce its dependence on Western oil companies in favor of the Chinese is a logical option for authoritarian Kazakh President Nazarbajev, in power since 1990.

China and India have taken up an enduring Western tradition. Safeguarding the flow of oil has long been of utmost strategic importance to Western countries. Seeing the newcomers on the world economic stage exhibit the same behavior will take some getting used to. This has become more evident, now that the international free market for oil products has begun to significantly tighten and prices are going up. This morning, a barrel of Brent-crude cost $65.

The struggle to secure and control the world’s oil reserves is as old as the combustion engine. The combination of higher prices and new players on the world stage has ushered in a period of uncertainty for international oil politics. Long term, the best answer to this uncertainty is to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

[Raster]

1. If the government mandated solar photovoltaic panels on every roof

where feasible, the energy savings to this country would be tremendous. The rub is that other than making a profit on selling the panels, no one could make a profit on their use. How can you meter the sun? And for the love of God, you've got to be able to make a profit. Some rich bastard somewhere has got to be able to get richer.

In my book the number one problem in the United States is GREED. Greed is not good. The greed mindset is what enslaves us to the corporate masters.

[welshTerrier2]

2. passing on the costs to big oil

not only does the new energy bill hand over billions of American tax dollars to big oil but we're kind enough to offer them the use of our military and most of our government's apparatus to go around the world seeking more profits ... we're a very kindly people that way ...

and we do all of this at a time where big oil is raking in record profits while the nation worries about the cost of energy and the instability we've created in the Middle East ...

imagine if we could send the oil companies a $200 Billion invoice (cost of the Iraq war) for the use of US services and supplies ... then we could see just how profitable they really are ... then alternative fuels, and the photovoltaic panels might not look so cost prohibitive ...

[1932]

13. There are ways to meter the sun:

Municipalities will pass laws restricting the size of solar panels people can have, for aesthetic reasons of course. That will mean that you'll have to have solar panel farms. Somehow, the right people are going to get their hands on the best land, zoned for those farms, and, voila, you'll have people hooked into a solar-power corporation, spending more money then they'd otherwise have to spend.

[snot]

3. KICK nt

[Pithy Cherub]

4. Oil will pale in significance to water in the coming years.

Oil sustains a way of life, water sustains life. There are so many areas where conservation should be a way of life not an incentive. That would mean a substantial shift in philosophy and priorities.

There are many policies that each administration has been a party to that if known would have made the American population beyond livid. The tipping point, if you will, is and has been the loss of life exceeding the public's value of a policy construct.

There has been a substantial weakening of national Democratic cristicism because so many are co-opted by voting for many of this administration's policies and concepts. The road to redemption leads through acknowledging errors - it is not clear how many of the current elected Democratic officials would even want to demonstrate that level of consciousness. That requires being present in the moment now and not casting a plan based on future political ambitions.

[1932]

14. John Perkins, in confessions of an economic hit man, says iraq was about

H2O as well as oil. The Tigris-Euphrates runs right through Iraq.

[welshTerrier2]

15. if you want to talk "Confessions"

check out my follow-up thread on Darfur ... it's truly shocking ... not surprising, but shocking ... and man it's frustrating that DU'ers don't participate more in threads like that ...

notice the "big font" reference to Halliburton having its own army ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2039014&mesg_id=2039014

[Totally Committed]

5. Kick!

:kick:

[wli]

6. yes, they're too timid to save the world

They can scarcely be called upon to challenge domestic policy, never mind foreign.

[omega minimo]

7. How do you address the perception

"...if "the left" calls the Democratic Party "corporatists" and claims they are no better than the republicans (which i don't agree with)"

....that Dems and Repugs are different wings of the same party, pandering to the corporations? This view is an obstacle to the vision of increasing awareness that you are proposing.

:patriot:

[welshTerrier2]

8. not sure i'm clear on your question but

i'll take my best shot ...

first, to clarify the statement you highlighted from my post ... the phrase "which i don't agree with" referred to the second clause only (i.e. "they are no better than republicans") ... i do see the Party as being heavily "infested" with corporatists (read DLC) ...

now, how do we make progress with a perception that the Democratic Party is strangled by corporatists? is that what you're asking me?

if so, my answer is NOT that we have to change the "perception" of the Party; we have to change the Party itself ... too many well meaning loyal Democrats, and we see this extensively even on DU, spend most of their energies attacking bush and highlighting his shortcomings ... i agree with each and every one of them ... ultimately, they are focussed on the explicit obstacle to winning elections ...

but the real obstacle to power is not republicans but the need to educate Americans that our values are the right values ... the real obstacle to power is choosing strategies that focus too heavily on "political tweaking" and too little on the best interests of the American people ... when we outline the right plans and the right values and fight for them with passion, then we will win elections ... most of the rest of what we see here is unfortunately secondary ...

most elected Democrats and Democratic strategists came up through the ranks while Democrats were the majority Party or occupied the WH under Clinton ... they find themselves in a new situation ... and their reaction has been to jettison much of what Americans had found appealing for many prior decades ... the so called fight for the center is little more than an abandonment of our core values ... and to neutralize the GOP's massive fundraising advantage, the Party has cozied up to corporate America ...

Dean's "grassroots fundraising" is one step in the right direction to counteract this dependency ... but it will take more than just dollars rolling in the door ... i think the American people need to be taught that big money is damaging their democracy ... we would hold the moral high ground politically by fighting for the US Constitution and a renewal of our democracy ... and there's surely nothing wrong with highlighting the inappropriate buying of our government and the direction of its policy by powerful, monied interests ...

i guess the bottom line is that those of us here who understand how corrupted our institutions have become need to do more ... we have to inspire each other; we have to get the word out to more and more people; and we have to urge our "elected" leaders to join us and let them know we will fight them if they don't ...

i don't expect this process to happen overnight ... but i believe the internet has given us a voice that will change the world ... it's already begun ... i don't think most elected Dems were born as corporatists; it's a learned "skill" ... we just need to teach them that, we the people, want them to unlearn it and help us restore this country to what it should be ...

[omega minimo]

9. That will do nicely thank you

:hi:

"but the real obstacle to power is not republicans but the need to educate Americans that our values are the right values ... the real obstacle to power is choosing strategies that focus too heavily on "political tweaking" and too little on the best interests of the American people ... when we outline the right plans and the right values and fight for them with passion, then we will win elections"

AB SO LUtely.

"most elected Democrats and Democratic strategists came up through the ranks while Democrats were the majority Party or occupied the WH under Clinton ... they find themselves in a new situation ... and their reaction has been to jettison much of what Americans had found appealing for many prior decades ... "

I would venture that a lot of the Dem pros and strategists you mention also came up AFTER MBA's took over the world and every fucking aspect of life is infested with marketing principles and techniques-- ESPECIALLY political elections. They may have NO CLUE about a throwback to the sort of clarity and directness that there is a call for here on DU tonight.

" ... i think the American people need to be taught that big money is damaging their democracy ... we would hold the moral high ground politically by fighting for the US Constitution and a renewal of our democracy ... and there's surely nothing wrong with highlighting the inappropriate buying of our government and the direction of its policy by powerful, monied interests ..."

The salt o' the earth understand how the game is rigged, perhaps much better than many DUers would expect. What I hear from the "middle" folks that Dems want to snag is "Well, what can ya do?" :shrug: So, Dear WT2, they may already get the concept but be too down to earth to get excited about it if nothing can be done about it.

Which brings us to:

"i guess the bottom line is that those of us here who understand how corrupted our institutions have become need to do more ... we have to inspire each other; we have to get the word out to more and more people; and we have to urge our "elected" leaders to join us and let them know we will fight them if they don't ..."

I'm gonna yell but not at YOU:

WE MUST NOT FORGET THE FISHBOWL WE ARE IN AS WE DISCUSS STRATEGIES AND CANDIDATES. WE MUST HAVE FREE AND FAIR ELECTIONS. AND WHY NOT HAVE CANDIDATES WHO WILL STAND UP FOR US ON THAT!?!

That would be a very effective way to show the folks who are disenfranchised by the corporate agenda that Democrats will stand with them and for them-- and that when they stand with us and vote, IT WILL COUNT.

That will answer the question:

Well, what can ya do? :patriot:

[burrowowl]

10. Hie thee all

to your local Democratic Party local and RAISE HELL!
We have a good candidate for Rep. against Wilson and Gov. Richardson DLC-lite told the state Dem Party to back Chavez, a very nice man but no match for Leather Heather.

[Porcupine]

11. Sorry Hillary and Kerry both voted FOR THE IRAQ WAR!!!

Since then the Democrats in Congress have largely rolled over and played dead on vital issues. In 2 fraudulent presidential elections not a single Dem senator stood up for counting our votes.

I'm all with democratic individuals, the "Democratic Party" appears to be a bunch of corporate lapdogs.

[omega minimo]

16. Perhaps you've heard of

(President) Barbara Boxer?

[sunnystarr]

17. How do we change it?

We all recognize the problems and castigate the Bushites and the Dem sell-outs. We all feel betrayed. We keep talking about it, posting examples of it, and crying over it. We need to focus on the solutions. How can we collectively change it. Then we need to take action in a solidarity of purpose. Cindy showed us how to be leaders.

Guess I'm sick of complaining and would like to be part of effectuating changes and take our country back.

[welshTerrier2]

18. good question; tough question ...

i think there are several components to bringing about the changes we're seeking ...

first, the underground or if you prefer, the grassroots ... we don't appear on MTP; we have little or no voice in the MSM; but we do have power ... as progressive, online communities grow and they pour over into real life, we are having an effect ... much of Dean's campaign last year was built on this model ... no small thing ... online politics is breaking the stranglehold the MSM had on "information sharing" ... it's also breaking the stranglehold party elitists had on "telling all of us what we think" ... these may seem like subtle, indirect changes but their power will eventually be unstoppable ... this movement is still very much in its infancy ...

second, within the Democratic Party itself, there are a couple of factors that will lead to change ... i would not want to be an online fundraiser for Biden or Clinton ... this is a very hostile environment for them ... withholding of campaign funds and support and refusing to vote for those who don't represent our views will eventually yield a different crop of candidates who will ...

third, Dean's campaign to raise money from "the grassroots" will create at least the possibility of de-emphasizing the importance of corporate donors ... the Clinton DLC is like a dying fly buzzing around in circles on the floor ... as moderates and lefties finally are unified over Iraq, there will be much less to divide us ... the DLC-Republican Party Catering Company (DLC-RPC Co.) will then be driven out of business ...

i think our mission right now is to get beyond the labels and realize that we have essentially lost our democracy ... those who continue to support the corporate infestation of our government must go ... and as we become a larger, more effective force to make that case, we will either find converts to our side among some of our existing leaders, e.g. Dean, Clark, Kerry or we will move our energies to candidates who share our values ... our main role right now is not "complaining"; it's clarification of who we are and what we believe; it's educating those around us; it's reaching out to our "leaders" to start following our lead ...

the process will take time ... i'm very worried that it may be too late to see any substantial progress before the midterms ... in the near-term, if the Party continues to hide under the couch on Iraq, i'm afraid the current rift will do some real damage ... so, i'm a bit pessimistic about the short-term; i'm much more optimistic about the long-term ...

[sunnystarr]

19. Why not an internet coordinated campaign

targeting Clinton, Biden, Lieberman, etc. Let them know by the hundreds of thousands that we won't support them and will actively encourage others not to support them if they don't reflect the will of the vast majority of Democrats?

We sign petitions just about every day. Why not a petition sent to them?

[me b zola]

12. "Last chance to save the world"

You have state it very well.

"we in the US have the greatest responsibility and the greatest opportunity to evict the corporate tyrants and imperialists from power ..."

What a heavy burden that responsibility is, but it is indeed ours. The first acceptence of that responsibility is to deal with the vampires making their way into the Democratic Party. We need to revive our good name and reclaim our values. How can we fight them out there when they are here claiming to be us?


It is indeed the last chance to save the world. Goodness help us all.

[earth mom]

20. How do you open closed minds?

How about rethugs who are so against democratic party values that they think that money is WAY more important than people and don't care who dies so they can save a buck or two? :sarcasm:

I've an acquaintance who shocked the hell out of me the other day when she outed herself as a rethug and went off about how dems are extremely anti business and how as a (very) small business owner she is outraged at having her business license fee raised a whopping 20 bucks a year by our states democratic governor! :eyes: Believe me, there was no talking to her about the war and the fact that the Iraqis weren't part of 911, or the real reasons behind the war-GREED, GREED and MORE GREED. It wasn't long before I realized she was totally "round the bend" and a hopeless cause.

I admire your energy and passion because right now I hate feeling like this: :banghead:

[omega minimo]

21. Seems that talking about how minds got closed would be worthwhile

but folks don't wanna go there.

How do you untie a knot without looking at how it's tied?