KY Gov Fletcher just screwed up "Big Time" By Issuing Pardons

[rrrevolution]

Each of these pardoned officials CANNOT INVOKE THEIR 5TH AMENDMENT RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT NOW since they no longer face legal jeopardy for the crimes pardoned, AND

THEY MUST TESTIFY TRUTHFULLY if appearing under subpoena, and if they lie, then PERJURY and OBSTRUCTION OF JUSTICE CHARGES can be brought against them regardless of the pardon.

AND THE BEST PART -- Gov Fletcher did not pardon himself, so the Attorney General can call each of the pardoned officials before the Grand Jury and make them testify truthfully against Gov Fletcher in the Attorney General's continuing investigation against Gov Fletcher.

Get out the popcorn folks, this could be good!!

[KeepItReal]

1. Is that why people get pardoned *after* being convicted of a crime?

Interesting

[rrrevolution]

8. As A Matter of Fact, You Don't Even Have to be Charged to be Pardoned

You can be pardoned for acts and circumstances which are not even being investigated by any law enforcement official at the time the pardon is issued.

This works really well for those who like to have a "get out of jail free card" in their pocket as they go about their business.

However, most pardons cannot be granted secretly, and there is the rub. Remember the Marc Rich pardon Clinton granted at the eleventh hour before leaving office? Had to be done publicly.

[napi21]

2. I must have been naping again. What did Gov. Fletcher do?

I can't remember seeing his name here on DU and since I'm not near Ky, I'm curious.

[rrrevolution]

4. Gov Fletcher pardoned 9 top Officials today, but not himself

Attorney General is bringing criminal charges against Governor and his top officials for violating the Kentucky State Law which makes it a crime to hire on a patronage basis, you must hire on merit.

Evidently they were so brazen about it that they mentioned what they were doing in their emails. The Attorney General got a search warrant and copied all the files on the server in the Governor's Office last week.

Rumor is one of the nine(9) was about to cut a deal and turn State's evidence against the Governor and his buddies so Gov. Fletcher pardoned them all.

But somebody did not think this through as he has left himself wide open to be driven from office.

He has one and only one escape hatch left which would seal his legacy for corruption if he resorted to it. He resigns from office and his successor pardons him ala Gerry Ford pardon of Richard Nixon.

[napi21]

20. Thank you! I hadn't heard anything about that!

There are soooo many scandals with the Pubs these days, it's really hard to keep track of them all!

[Rabrrrrrr]

3. What is "Big Time"?

Sounds almost more like he just screwed himself than someone else.

Is "Big Time" the code name for whatever illegal activities these people have been involved in?

I'm so utterly confused.

[rrrevolution]

5. "Big Time" = Gigantic Mistake

No small error here, Gov Fletcher has definitely "shot himself in the foot." (better analogy??)

[Rabrrrrrr]

6. Ah, gotcha - it was the errant usage of quotes that confused me

Thanks for the clarifier!

That is a big time fuckup on his part! Unless he's already cut a deal with the Vice Governor (or whatever he/she is called) for a pardon after he resigns or gets a guilty charge or whatever.

[Inland]

11. Big Time = Hugh nt

[rrrevolution]

7. Wait Till People in Ky Realize What He Has Done --

He did this after receiving a letter from the Atty General of KY advising the Gov not to pardon any officials so that the wrongdoers could be brought to trial; AND

Governor called a press conference with his political cronies cheering him on to announce the pardons and criticize the Atty Gen as wasting taxpayer money; AND

He waited until the state's citizens were focused on hurricane Katrina to do this.

[KeepItReal]

10. I hope they have time to process it. Remnants of Katrina are heading there

right?

[LiberalFighter]

18. Can he pardon anyone for federal crimes? I don't think so

[alfredo]

19. Obstruction of justice?

[mikelewis]

9. I think we seriously need to reexamine our pardoning policy...

seems to me that a person shouldn't be able to pardon someone when they're co-conspirators. Seems a bit crooked if you ask me.

[Check12]

14. I posed this question on DU about a month ago

If a sitting president handed a pistol to an aide during a press conference and the aide turned and blew someones head off in front of a million TV viewers. The president then turned to the aide and said "I hereby pardon you for what you just did" could that aide ever br held accountable for the act?

The answers I got were basically no, the aide could never be held accountable, he would get away with murder. in fact, the pardon is the most imperialistic of powers our leaders have and it is in the constitution. The only way to reform the pardon would by constitutional amendment. (state or federal)

Pretty much sucks does it not?

[mikelewis]

17. If they can sponser the Gay Marriage Amendment - we can consider the...

Pardon Amendment.

[rrrevolution]

12. You Can Believe Bush/Rove has Considered This Scenario w/Plame

Bush/Rove most likely would not go this route, when they can get the same end result by having the Senate Committee(under Repub Chair control) call the offending parties to testify with a grant of immunity from criminal prosecution.

Bush/Rove is struggling with the same prob Gov Fletcher has, once you pardon/grant immunity to these folks you have destroyed the 5th Amend right to remain silence and they can be made to testify truthfully against the Gov/President.

A more likely short-term strategy is to have an event occur which grabs the public's attention (ie. Hurricanes, terrorist attacks, etc.) and work behind the scenes to make Fitzgerald go away.

[wli]

13. sounds like pardons need to get reworked ASAP n/t

[Check12]

15. see my post upthread, Just not possible!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2044735&mesg_id=2044890

[wli]

16. constitutional amendment was what I had in mind

Though the plausibility of that is not particularly high.

[rrrevolution]

21. LINK-Law Prof Agrees - Pardoned Cannot Invoke 5th Priv

www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050830/NEWS0104/508300369/1008

"Q: Are pardoned people obliged to testify fully to a grand jury if called?
A: Johnson said yes. "If an individual is pardoned, he could not be tried for that crime again and could not claim a Fifth Amendment right to not testify about that matter."