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Fox Dayside Sliming Kerry re. 1971 Senate Testimony Against War.

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WiseMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:29 PM
Original message
Fox Dayside Sliming Kerry re. 1971 Senate Testimony Against War.

Fox Day-Side is now spreading slime on John Kerry. They say it is a Internet major movement started by a group Veterans against John Kerry.

They attack says Kerry is a traitor for charging that the U.S. military committed atrocities against Vietnamese before a Senate committee in 1971. It is very vicious.

Where will you stand?

To be very serious, I think we Dems need to sober-up and realize that no matter who is the Democratic nominee, Dean, Clark, or Kerry, a major challenge faces the party.

The republicans are going to be using every lever of incumbency to manipulate public opinion.

Every insidious insinuation regarding our nominee will be circulated.

Every piece of slime that has the remotest chance of sticking is going to be lobbed.

And even if these personal attack can be overcome, there is the challenge of re-taking the House and the Senate.

So what does this mean for us Dems? It means that whether Dean or Kerry or Clark or Edwards becomes the flag-bearer, there is going to be a huge fight on our hands. We will need to rally a massive coast-to-coast grass-roots revival of ideals, a re-learning of the state of the nation, and a realignment of the electorate for change.

We all need to rally round the flag, or fail.



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ibegurpard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. Get used to it
Unfortunately, with Kerry as a candidate, most of it will probably stick.
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David Dunham Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. This Is the Same "Veterans" Group That Slimed McCain
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. The author of most of the slime is Ted Sampley
a critic since the beginning of John Kerry's protest against Nixon 30 yrs. ago. He once called 5 yr. POW John McCain a "Manchurian Candidate"
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Alpharetta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
3. I gave up on Fox viewers a long time ago
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. Rush Limbaugh mixing up John Kerry with Bob Kerrey
Edited on Tue Jan-27-04 01:39 PM by zulchzulu
I was listening to the Dittohead King for a bit today and he was quoting some article on www.intellectualconservative.com where an allegation is made that Kerry was responsible for what actually were Bob Kerrey's war events that happened.

That these right-wing chickenhawks are trying to scrutinize Kerry's Vietnam record is exactly what the Kerry camp wants to have happen.

They are falling right directly into the trap.
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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. I wouldn't put anything beneath the likes of Rush. He's really HIGH
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DevilsAdvocate2 Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
5. Happens all the time
In virtually every election in the nation
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
6. My father in law
kept a shoebox of photos from the war that had images of the horror there. We undeniably targeted civilian areas without warning. We had many units that were stuck there without proper ammo and supplies. Sometines units would be virtually leaderless. There was a great deal of chaos towards the end of that war. We should listen to and respect the stories from that horrible war. We should not go back and dredge up our 'shoeboxes' to bash each other with. John Kerry put his away a long time ago. He recently pressed for normalization of relations with his former enemy. We should let these servicemen heal.
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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
9. Unless we win back the House and Senate, Can't Put Repub Criminals away

Dems have to take a grass-roots approach that tagets and wins
all the critical congressional seats.
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
19. Guess it is getting time for us to unite. Congrats Kerry folk
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Sandpiper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
10. I wonder what these people from My Lai
Would say about attrocities committed in Vietnam by US soldiers



Oh wait, they can't say anything. They were tortured, raped and murdered.
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cindyw Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
11. The person running this "movement" is a man named Ted Sampley
His info is as follows

U.S. VETERAN DISPATCH
P.O. Box 246, Kinston,
North Carolina 28502
Tel. 252-527-0442

Have at this guy.

He slimed McCain too. Pretty disgusting. If this man is powerful enough to get FOX to call him a "movement". Then maybe we should show him our "movement".

disclaimer: I am not advocating harassment or violence. I just think we should know who is behind movements.

I won't link to his sites. Most of it is right wing crap except for the MIA/POW stuff.
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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Dems are really going to need innoculation against the slime that's coming
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
22. I'm a little surprised Fox got ahold of this
The internet makes it much easier for people to spread their opinions....
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
12. Rove & Rethugs have proven there is nothing they won't stoop to to win...
No one should any doubts about how the GOP operates.
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
13. EXCERPTS FROM JOHN KERRY'S TESTIMONY
EXCERPTS FROM JOHN KERRY'S TESTIMONY BEFORE THE SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE, APRIL 22, 1971

...I am not here as John Kerry. I am here as one member of the group of 1,000 which is a small representation of a very much larger group of veterans in this country, and were it possible for all of them to sit at this table they would be here and have the same kind of testimony....

I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the "Winter Soldier Investigation." The term "Winter Soldier" is a play on words of Thomas Paine in 1776 when he spoke of the Sunshine Patriot and summertime soldiers who deserted at Valley Forge because the going was rough.

We who have come here to Washington have come here because we f eel we have to be winter soldiers now. We could come back to this country; we could be quiet; we could hold our silence; we could not tell what went on in Vietnam, but we feel because of what threatens this country, the fact that the crimes threaten it, not reds, and not redcoats but the crimes which we are committing that threaten it, that we have to speak out.


...In our opinion, and from our experience, there is nothing in South Vietnam, nothing which could happen that realistically threatens the United States of America. And to attempt to justify the loss of one American life in Vietnam, Cambodia, or Laos by linking such loss to the preservation of freedom, which those misfits supposedly abuse, is to us the height of criminal hypocrisy, and it is that kind of hypocrisy which we feel has torn this country apart....

We found that not only was it a civil war, an effort by a people who had for years been seeking their liberation from any colonial influence whatsoever, but also we found that the Vietnamese whom we had enthusiastically molded after our own image were hard put to take up the fight against the threat we were supposedly saving them from.

We found most people didn't even know the difference between communism and democracy. They only wanted to work in rice paddies without helicopters strafing them and bombs with napalm burning their villages and tearing their country apart. They wanted everything to do with the war, particularly with this foreign presence of the United States of America, to leave them alone on peace, and they practiced the art of survival by siding with whichever military force was present at a particular time, be it Vietcong, North Vietnamese, or American.

We found also that all too often American men were dying in those rice paddies for want of support from their allies. We saw first hand how money from American taxes was used for a corrupt dictatorial regime. We saw that many people in this country had a one-sided idea of who was kept free by our flag, as blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties. We saw Vietnam ravaged equally by American bombs as well as by search and destroy missions, as well as by Vietcong terrorism, and yet we listened while this country tried to blame all of the havoc on the Viet Cong.

We rationalized destroying villages in order to save them. We saw America lose her sense of morality as she accepted very coolly a My Lai and refused to give up the image of American soldiers who hand out chocolate bars and chewing gum.

We learned the meaning of free fire zones, shooting anything that moves, and we watched while America placed a cheapness on the lives of orientals.

We watched the U.S. falsification of body counts, in fact the glorification of body counts. We listened while month after month we were told the back of the enemy was about to break. We fought using weapons against "oriental human beings," with quotation marks around that. We fought using weapons against those people which I do not believe this country would dream of using were we fighting in the European theater or let us say a non-third-world people theater, and so we watched while men charged up hills because a general said that hill has to be taken, and after losing one platoon or two platoons they marched away to leave the high for the reoccupation by the North Vietnamese because we watched pride allow the most unimportant of battles to be blown into extravaganzas, because we couldn't lose, and we couldn't retreat, and because it didn't matter how many American bodies were lost to prove that point. And so there were Hamburger Hills and Khe Sanhs and Hill 881's and Fire Base 6's and so many others.

Now we are told that the men who fought there must watch quietly while American lives are lost so that we can exercise the incredible arrogance of Vietnamizing the Vietnamese....

Each day to facilitate the process by which the United States washes her hands of Vietnam someone has to give up his life so that the United States doen'st have to admit something that the entire world already knows, so that we can't say they we have made a mistake. Someone has to die so that President Nixon won't be, and these are his words, "the first President to lose a war."

We are asking Americans to think about that because how do you ask a man to be the last man to die in Vietnam? How do you ask a man to be the last man to die for a mistake? But we are trying to do that, and we are doing it with thousands of rationalizations, and if you read carefully the President's last speech to the people of this country, you can see that he says and says clearly:

But the issue, gentlemen, the issue is communism, and the question is whether or not we will leave that country to the Communists or whether or not we will try to give it hope to be a free people.

But the point is they are not a free people now under us. They are not a free people, and we cannot fight communism all over the world, and I think we should have learned that lesson by now....

We are asking here in Washington for some action, action from the Congress of the United States of America which as the power to raise and maintain armies, and which by the Constitution also has the power to declare war.

We have come here, not to the President, because we believe that this body can be responsive to the will of the people, and we believe that the will of the people says that we should be out of Vietnam now....

We are also here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are the leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We are here to ask where are McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatric, and so many others. Where are they now that we, the men whom they sent off to war, have returned? These are commanders who have deserted their troops, and there is no more serious crime in the law of war. The Army says they never leave their wounded.

The Marines say they never leave even their dead. These men have left all the casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They have left the real stuff of their reputations bleaching begin them in the sun in this country....




...It is my opinion that the United States is still reacting in very much the 1945 mood and postwar cold-war period when we reacted to the forces which were at work in World War II and came out of it with this paranoia about the Russians and how the world was going to be divided up between the super powers, and the foreign policy of John Foster Dulles which was responsible for the created of the SEATO treaty, which was, in fact, a direct reaction to this so-called Communist monolith. And I think we are reacting under cold-war precepts which are no longer applicable.

I say that because so long as we have the kind of strike force we have, and I am not party to the secret statistics which you gentlemen have here, but as long as we have the ones which we of the public know we have, I think we have a strike force of such capability and I think we have a strike force simply in our Polaris submarines, in the 62 or some Polaris submarines, which are constantly roaming around under the sea. And I know as a Navy man that underwater detection is the hardest kind in the world, and they have not perfected it, that we have the ability to destroy the human race. Why do we have to, therefore, consider and keep considering threats?

At any time that an actual threat is posed to this country or to the security and freedom I will be one of the first people to pick up a gun and defend it, but right now we are reacting with paranoia t this question of peace and the people taking over the world. I think if were are ever going to get down to the question of dropping those bombs most of us in my generation simply don't want to be alive afterwards because of the kind of world that it would be with mutations and the genetic probabilities of freaks and everything else.

Therefore, I think it is ridiculous to assume we have to play this power game based on total warfare. I think there will be guerrilla wars and I think we must have a capability to fight those. And we may have to fight them somewhere based on legitimate threats, but we must learn, in this country, how to define those threats and that is what I would say to the question of world peace. I think it is bogus, totally artificial. There is no threat. The Communists are not about to take over our McDonald hamburger stands....


...I don't want to get into the game of saying I represent everybody over there, but let me try to say as straightforwardly as I can, we had an advertisement, ran full page, to show you what the troops read. It ran in Playboy and the response to it within two and a half weeks from Vietnam was 1,200 members. We received initially about 50 to 80 letters a day from troops arriving at our New York office. Some of these letters -- and I wanted to bring some down, I didn't know we were going to be testifying here and I can make them available to you -- are very, very moving, some of them written by hospital corpsmen on things, on casualty report sheets which say, you know, "Get us out of here." "You are the only hope he have got." "You have got to get us back; it is crazy." We received recently 80 members of the 101st Airborne signed up in one letter. Forty members from a helicopter assault squadron, crash and rescue mission signed up in another one.

I think they are expressing, some of these troops, solidarity with us, right now by wearing black arm bands and Vietnam Veterans Against the War buttons. They want to come out and I think they are looking at the people who want to try to get them out as a help.

However, I do recognize there are some men who are in the military for life. The job in the military is to fight wars. When they have a war to fight, they are just as happy in a sense, and I am sure that these men feel they are being stabbed in the back. But, at the same time, I think to most of them the realization of the emptiness, the hollowness, the absurdity of Vietnam has finally hit home, and I feel is they did come home the recrimination would certainly not come from the right, from the military. I don't think there would be that problem....



...You see the mind is changing over there and a search and destroy mission is a search and avoid mission, and troops don't -- you know, like that revolt that took place that was mentioned in the New York Times when they refused to go in after a piece of dead machinery, because it doesn't have any value. They are making their own judgments.

There is a GI movement in this country now as well as over there, and soon these people, these men, who are prescribing wars for these young men to fight are going to find out they are going to have to find some other men to fight them because we are going to change prescriptions. They are going to have to change doctors, because we are not going to fight for them. that is what they are going to realize. There is now a more militant attitude even within the military itself....

John Kerry, 4/22/71




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iowapeacechief Donating Member (331 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. This should be MUST reading for...
...anybody who labels John Kerry "pro-war".
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Raya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-27-04 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
15. Sadly RW attack sound very much like some stuff put out on DU
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drfemoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
17. What is Fox Dayside?
Is that television? (don't watch tv) .. Was this presented as *news*??
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. Wow.
The democratic front runner has to deal with smear ads? Poor Kerry. I'm sure his wife can loan him another 9 million to counter it.
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indie_jones Donating Member (34 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. hmmm
I've a problem reconciling Kerry's anti-Vietnam years; especially with him using his military experience as a voting point now.

I've two immediate family members who served in Vietnam, and they (Democrats) hate Kerry with a passion. They are not hardline supporters of the war even though they fought, but they say that Kerry helped solidify the notion that EVERY solider tortured and raped Vietnamese. They have long believed he was grandstanding for his own gain. I don't know what to think.

MY problem is the whole "throwing the medals" issue. I mean, it's pretty wormy to stage a demonstration where vets throw back the medals they earned ... and NOT throw YOUR OWN medals. That's sleazy no matter how you spin it.

Either way, this WILL keep biting Kerry in the buns if he wins the nomination.
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deutsey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-28-04 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
21. Welcome to the frontrunner position, Sen. Kerry
No matter who goes up against Bush, this is the kind of character assassination we will be up against.

Can we all now stop helping our GOP opponents to destroy our own candidates? It's time to come together united in our determination to fight Bush Inc.
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