Nagin is not guiltless...

[Teaser]

As refreshing as Nagin's honesty has been, a lot of people around here seem to think anytime the media points out some of his failings in this matter, it's part of a Bush push-back strategy.

Now don't get me wrong. I have no illusions. Bush and his bastards will attempt to pin this *all* on the mayor and the governor. We can't let them win that battle. And truth be told, the meme of FEMA's failure in this matter is firmly implanted in the public consciousness. There will be an anti-Democrat push back. We can fight it.

But in the end, there were failures at every level, and I want all those responsible held accountable.

[montana500]

1. please stop the "thoughtful liberal act"

it doesnt win elections.

[kodi]

3. i refer to them as scab-picking democrats

who focus on self inflicted flesh wounds instead of mortal wounds coming from the other side.

little nicky kristof of the NY Times is their role model

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Stewie]

22. Ah, so winning elections is more important than making sure...

...this never happens again.

Nagin's office FAILED to evacuate people who could not move. The city is littered with busses, etc. that sure as hell could get folks in the projects somewhere on election day, but can't be used to save their lives. Plus, there was no police for four days because they failed to move cruisers and equipment to the higher ground of the French Quarter. Fucking inexcusable when you KNOW there's a good chance of severe flooding.

But with the City KOed, the lack of response falls to Blanco and Bush. Plenty of blame to go around, so stop putting the interests of the Party ahead of the lives of 480,000 people.

[stillcool]

2. wait until the black people....

have finished dying...or is that too much to ask?

[The Traveler]

4. And what, exactly, were those failings?

Really. What did the guy do wrong?

[Teaser]

8. There was no follow up plan for the superdome

It is not a huge failing. But the fact is that a plan for supply and evacuation of the dome assumed no flooding or incapacitation of the city. That could have been better.

His sins are small, by * standards, but they exist.

[1932]

19. This thing went way beyond the capacity of any municpality when the levee

burst.

[The Traveler]

29. Clearly

as evidenced by previous disaster simulations and drills. I think he did the very best he could.

[underpants]

5. Of course he isn't but then he only has so much power

only so many resources at his disposal. If you believe the ;-) "60% of New Orleans police left their job" ;-) that makes it worse.

How many states were effected by the hurricane?
Should we compartmentalize the effort?


How many states were attacked on 9/11?

[Teaser]

10. I agree with everything your saying.

Everything.

[underpants]

14. Thanks

Hannity "there is a little bit of a distribution issue"

[Turn CO Blue]

16. They did leave. I don't know about the statistic of 60%

leaving their jobs...but CNN showed footage of a bold-speaking black New Orleans police officer dressed in a police uniform telling off his fellow "coward cops" (cussin' more like) that those cops who had abandoned the city and state had failed in their oaths and didn't have what it takes to wear the badge (while pointing to his own badge).

He was beyond fierce in his anger at his fellow officers -- so I take his word for it!

[underpants]

20. I heard that yesterday

or maybe before that I am loosing count.

[TomInTib]

6. Just what could Nagin ( and N O ) have done?

This is a federal situation.

[WI Independent]

12. Acted like a leader....

Hell, he could have comandeered a news chopper and flown around the city with a bullhorn asking people to be calm, help each other and to make their way to somewhere... ANYWHERE. Yes, people needed water, food and shelter but more importantly they needed a sense that someone (ANYONE) was in charge and some direction on what to do... they were "shell shocked".

[TomInTib]

13. Have you ever been in a situation like this?

I have.
Flying around a city of 1 million with a bullhorn?
Come on.
How much misery would that have alleviated?

[WI Independent]

25. No I haven't...

No, it wouldn't have given them water or food but it just might have given some hope... human beings can do amazing things with hope... and very little without it.

I saw an interview with a man Tuesday or Wednesday. He was on an interstate bridge with a group of people sitting and standing around. The main thing he wanted was for someone to tell them where to go... he said we'll go... just tell us. The reporter tried to ask a cop walking by where these people should go... the cop ignored him and kept walking.

The mayor alone with a bullhorn was an exaggeration... I do believe he could have shown more leadership though. I realize he was in a terrible situation and would not call him incompetent or a failure... I do think he made some mistakes and missed some opportunities.

[TomInTib]

28. I know what you mean, but...

that hands-on has been appropriated by Homeland/FEMA. N O's hands were literally tied by the impenetrable layers of crap you have to wade thru to get federal attention.
The Fed is taking the power of the city/county/state for its own and then refusing to respond when needed- only when politically appropriate.

[barb162]

18. Why weren't there more shelters in that city?

That disturbs me greatly. Also their telling people to bring their own food and water to the Dome. In an area very susceptible to hurricanes, there seemed to be almost zero preparedness to shelter the people who needed it most. It was as if their idea of preparation was going on TV (at cat 5 stage) and saying get out of town and the Dome will be available for a few thousand people

And then the state and federal government were beyond inept. When you see a strong cat 3 hurricane coming at you for a few days....

[melody]

11. of course he's not guiltless

But next to Bush, he's a superhero.

[Imagevision]

15. Kagan nailed those to get off their ass'!!!

http://downingstreetmemo.com/

[Neshanic]

17. He waited too long to tell to evacuate. His decision.

He wasted an extra day. Thats the fact.

[sharonking21]

21. Issuing a mandatory evacuation order

is a really big deal. Let me tell you why.

I used to work for Emergency Management at a state Department of Health as an epidemiologist and even back then it was known that, if you were forced into declaring a mandatory evacuation, the poor and helpless and infirm would be left behind, because it is impossible, even with great and perfect preplanning, to arrange public transportation for all those who are not exceedingly mobile, round them up from their various residences and hospitals, make them go, etc—all before the storm broke and captured all of you out on the road.

So it has long been thought by disaster preparedness people that the only thing to do is --declare it only if you absolutely have to—-so as many people can get out as possible—but not try to do this public transport thing. It is a risk balancing act—most of the time they are more likely to survive in their residences and hospitals than if they are part of a late evacuation and get caught in transit.

But mandatory evacuations of large urban areas are almost never declared because of this very problem and because you always fear that the evacuation itself will lead to deaths. He at least declared it, but I'll bet it killed him, knowing just who would be left behind.

[Stewie]

23. They can go to the projects and bus black people to the polls...

..so why not shelters? Why are there hundreds of school and municipal busses sitting in flooded parking lots while folks who couldn't get out are drowned in their attics?

I guess they're only worth something on Election Day.

[Roland99]

27. Who was going to drive them? 80% of the city had left already.

[barb162]

26. But shouldn't that city have had enough properly

functioning shelters for those they would have expected to be left behind, knowing that a fairly large portion of its population wasn't exactly mobile.

I am still trying to figure out if a 100,000 were still in that city a day after the hurricane, where 's the other 50,000, dead in their attics?

[Roland99]

24. And just how was Nagin at fault? His city was UNDERWATER!

His authority ends at the city limits. It was up to the State and the Feds to help for a disaster of this scale.

80% of the city had been evac'd, including city employees in that 80%. There wasn't much left to maintain order for a city of that size given what happened after most had left.

The mayor was overwhelmed and underassisted.

[fishnfla]

30. There should have been a contingency plan long before Nagin

As everyone keeps pointing out from
National Geographic and points beyond, everyone knew for years that there was a potential problem.

There should have been a blueprint for action in city hall as thick a 10 phonebooks. They should've had drills yearly.

ack, shoulda, woulda, coulda. Everyone whose ever lived in the city knew the situation.--too late now

[Moderator]

31. locking, flamebait

Mayor Nagin did what he could with what he had.