Does anyone else see a problem with politicised assessments?

[Mairead]

I note that although people here have good sense and believe that everyone should damned well have been evacuated from New Orleans before the storm hit, once the rightwingers started criticising the mayor and saying that school busses should have been used, many people here started inventing reasons why that would have been impossible or a bad idea.

In other words, the reality became subordinated to a desire to oppose. Where's the sense in that? Nature doesn't care about politics. A person is just as dead no matter whether killed by a racist police bullet or by bad planning on the part of the well-meaning.

One of the biggest markers of adulthood is when we can admit something is a good idea even though our parents suggested it. The same is true, mutatis mutandis, in this case--just because the rightwingers are saying something doesn't make it wrong!

Why is that hard for so many people here?

[aion]

1. Don't be quite so absurd.

Don't be quite so absurd. There is a kernel of truth in what you say, but come on. ((NumberPeople/NumberBuses)*TripsRequired*RoundTripTime) should help you figure out the absurdity. We needed our military while Bush has them half-way 'round the world on a fool's errand.

If we go that way, maybe we will find food. But if we go that way, and leave our women and children undefended, maybe we will come back to devestation.

Bush has the foresight of a loon...

[Mairead]

3. Absurd? I don't believe you can make that case.

What seems truly absurd is your idea that, when one cannot do everything, the best thing to do is nothing. The politics of preemptive surrender, in other words. I can't imagine how anyone could possibly begin to motivate such an idea. Would you like to have a go?

Action doesn't guarantee success, but it changes the odds.

[aion]

5. I agree

I don't believe that was my idea whatsoever. The best course of action was unavailable to us, and it is absurd to place blame on the people who hadn't eqipment enough to do what we pay the Federalis to do. Bush is gambling our future on our cache of nukular weapons. If that were not a hurricane, but an invading horde, would you still believe it was Louisiana's ill-preparedness?

[Mairead]

6. I think you're making my point for me.

That the best action was out of reach did not put all useful action out of reach. Doing a little was still possible, even though doing everything was not. Yet you seem to be arguing against the idea that the mayor and gov should have done that little. Why?

(And yes, if it had been an invading horde, and the mayor and gov had failed to (e.g.) distribute arms and ammunition from police and NG lagers and organise a defence, you bet I'd argue that they're in for a share of the kicking. Same principle: action doesn't guarantee success, but it changes the odds.)

[aion]

7. If you stop shipping paper to your secretary...

If you stop shipping paper to your secretary, are you then going to blame her when the letters are late going out? You have blinders on. The leader leads when he leads, but can't be blamed when he doesn't? Do you agree that cutting funding to a levee may have a forseeable consequence? Or do you just leave it all up to Gaud?

Why can't you see that Bush's ACTION to reduce funding was demonstrably harmful? Why can't you see that his tax cut for his contributers, and his fool's errand in Iraq, has resulted in a weakened ship of state?

[Mairead]

8. Please, throw those red herrings back where they came from

We're talking about the merits of using available tools (school busses) to accomplish part of a task (evacuation).

Whether BushCo shortchanged the levee budget has nothing to do with whether it's better to do a little even when a little is all one can do.

[aion]

9. I am trying to show you the value of a little foresight...

No, YOU are not talking, you are writing. And YOU are writing about those merits. I am trying to show you the value of a little foresight, as well as direct consequences of greed; yet YOU insist on framing it a different way.

If you think all analogies are red herrings, then you have a lot of catching up to do.

Usually two functioning halves are better than one.

[Mairead]

10. Since it looks to me as though you've made yourself a poster child

for my original point, I'll stop here.

[RiDuvessa]

2. I agree.

I don't understand the willingness of the MSM and others to give Nagin and Blanco a free pass. They are as much to blame for the situation that New Orleans is in as the Federal government.

As many people at this sight have pointed out, governments knew the horrific results that could occur from a hurricane strike. While there are many things that the local and state governments could not change, there are many things they could have done that are just common sense.

Why didn't New Orleans have an evacuation plan set up to get the poor and sick out of the city?

Why did Nagin wait until Sunday to declare a mandatory evacuation?

Why didn't the city or state have a properly supplied shelter set up?

Why weren't the police doing a house to house evacuation before the hurricane?

Why was the police dept so unprepared? Why were they in such disarray after the hurricane?

Why hadn't more NG troops been activated and stationed so they could move in immediately after the disaster?

First line evacuation, relief, and law and order are the responsibility of the state and local governments. I am by no means releasing the federal government from their responsibility in this mess. They knew what was coming and the screwed it away. However, I do not understand why the local officials are getting a free pass. Is it because most of them are Democrats? If so, that is wrong. The governor and the mayor should be held just as accountable as everyone else.

[Mairead]

11. I get the feeling that it's a "little kid" kind of reaction

Remember the schoolyard arguments that were all about having the last word, even if that last word was no more than "did so!" or "did not!"? But y'had to keep repeating, because otherwise you'd lose and be shamed forever.

It seems like the same thing here. Playing for points.

[akarnitz]

4. There's too much "rush to judgement"

on too many of the subjects which have arisen.

On the "school bus" issue, my first thought upon reading the Freeper perspective was "Were there people to drive the busses?" Maybe there were. Maybe there weren't. At this point it's irrelevant. Top priority at this point(IMO) should be afforded to rescuing the people in NOLA NOW. Then we've got to get the Port of New Orleans up, then start cleaning up and rebuilding the city.

There WILL be hearings. No one will be satisfied. But those hearings won't happen for a while. Conclusions will be drawn in three years. ACCURATE conclusions will be drawn by historians decades from now. Right now we gather our wits and do the dirty work.

I've talked to a few right-wingers about the situation, and, generally, we agree that Bush and FEMA dropped the ball(well, fumbled the snap). A lot of people I know who voted for Bush and normally observe the "Republican 11th Amendment"(Thou shalt not criticize a fellow Republican.) are vocalizing their disappointment. So there's a little hope left.

[bemildred]

12. No. We are drowning in such a sea of bullshit that I doubt that

that sort of thing matters much. In an environment where
there was some integrity in public political dialog to
start with it could be an important thing, but in the
current context I don't think it means much one way or
the other.