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WindChill Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 09:58 AM
Original message
Andrew Sullivan nailed it
On the Chris Matthews show he just referred to "effective government" in contrasting the Bush administration's response to Katrina.

That sounds to me like the perfect tack for the Democrats to take. It's not about the size of government (since the Democrats are never going to shake that label from the right), it's about it being effective. That should be an easy thing to sell after the last five years of incompetent and ineffective government.
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Bonhomme Richard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Under "Dereliction of Duty" they could clear out .......
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 10:03 AM by Bonhomme Richard
the whole bunch.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
6. MTP just asked if Chertoff would turn in his resignation...!!
:woohoo:

Of course the sack of bones is blah blah blah, double speak.
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Sugarbleus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. To add: Chertoff is getting a REAMING!!!! from Tim Russert
OMG, this is DELICIOUS.
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ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:04 AM
Response to Original message
2. ............
Edited on Sun Sep-04-05 10:05 AM by ElsewheresDaughter
http://www.andrewsullivan.com/index.php?dish_inc=archives/2005_08_28_dish_archive.html#112576191403113173

"I've considered myself a socially libertarian, fiscally conservative Republican for a very long time. I got along with the idea that I wasn't going to get a whole lot of help. College wouldn't be free. Job training would cost money and time. And I'm probably a decent example of up-from-not-much.

But after watching what's happening in New Orleans-an American city that I've loved, visited and have always wanted to return to - I can't ever vote for these people again.

Being a Republican means that you expect the government to do just a couple things for you and nothing else. Build a road. Defend us from enemies, foreign and domestic. Stuff that would be a lot less organized if we all had to do it ourselves. Everything else is just gravy.

And as we poured money into Department of Homeland Security, and the Federal Emergency Management Agency, I thought, "Right on," because some of that money's bound to fall on my head.

Well, something else would fall on my head first.

I work for the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department. And that means that if something really catastrophic happens in MY city, and they ask me to stick around, that's the job. We have A and B teams and I'm a disaster recovery specialist on Team A. I've drawn up plans with names like Drawbridge and Smoldering Crater.

Here's what these people would do for me.

They would leave me there to die.

Look at the facts. There's no coordination on the ground right now. The city has no fresh water, no electricity, no services. The floodwater has so much oil and toxins in it that it's flammable.

In psychology they have what is called a fight-or-flight response. When faced with danger, do you subdue it or do you flee? Some of it has to do with risk assessment, but in this case, there is no flight. There is nowhere to run. So flight means die. If my choice was to pull a pistol on a truck driver or Nat, Jarren, Jayson, or any of you dies, that's no choice at all.

I'm not talking about the looters grabbing big-screen televisions and basketball hoops. I'm talking about the ones that are chest-deep in water carrying bottled water and diapers. You can't tell me for three days to be patient, the bus is coming, and they're piling up bodies in the street median.

We have known that this sort of disaster could occur for a century. Hell, the tour bus driver told me about it on the plantation tour. This means that we have been able to envision the stark reality of this occurring for a week-the newspapers all said the storm would hit New Orleans last Thursday.

A week to get buses? A week to get fishing boats? Trucks? This is the United States! I read someone who said, "All the people who weren't bedridden, or had money, or had cars left. The people that are left had none of those things."

There are people tonight who are going to sleep on overpasses for the fourth straight night. There are prisoners who will do the same. There are people dying at a convention center because no one will tell them that no one is coming for them, and the National Guard is protecting the kitchens. There are police officers who are turning in their badges because they've lost everything, have no guidance, and don't want to be shot by a looter.

There are people tonight inside a concrete domed stadium with holes in the roof and no air conditioning who were told the buses are coming today, and they might, or they might not. There is no food. There is no water. There are bodies floating through the neighborhoods.

In the UNITED STATES.

Some people say that you can't hold the President responsible for this. Oh, yes you can. Because when he looked over at John Ashcroft after the jets hit the towers and said, "I want you to make sure this never happens again," it was not meant to be specific to "no more planes hitting large buildings on the East Coast, right, boss." It was meant that no American should have to run for his life through an American city. While Americans may perish in a senseless, unforeseen disaster, we'd save the ones we could.

And the Cabinet appointees were mushwits and he could barely speak a complete sentence and we're sending people overseas for God knows how long to help people who are indifferent at worst and hostile at best, but they were going to protect us. In 2004, that's all a lot of us needed. Well right now, it's obvious that they can't.

Ask yourself this: What if Al-Qaeda blew up the levees instead of the hurricane? Would the response have been any different?

No. It wouldn't. That city flooded in a day. And if it were Las Vegas, I would have been in some operations center watching people try to decide who gets to starve to death and who gets to get on a bus to Los Angeles or Phoenix. And there would be no certainty that I'd be on that bus in time to protect my wife and kids.

But one thing sure would have been different.

They wouldn't have had a whole week to sort it out and know what's coming. They were supposed to KNOW this already. It will have been FOUR YEARS next weekend since someone probably said, "Hey, what if..."

And for that, the whole stack of them should be fired.

I've had it. I'm done. And if the other bunch of assholes can't figure out that what's important is that babies don't starve to death here (and I'm not talking some metaphorical goo-goo thing with school lunches and welfare, but real, actual starving) and we get people out of harm's way, we'll get rid of them too. And so on.

Because this is about leadership, not about bitching on CNN how no one's in charge, or listening to Peggy Noonan furrow her brow at the Governor's performance, or bragging that we've sent in one National Guardsman for every 200 people, or actually having the audacity to say that "we had no idea the levees would break."

Today, I saw my country favorably compared to Indonesia and Thailand, (always our traditional benchmarks of infrastructural success) while the elderly die of thirst in the street. We sneered at France when this happened during a heat wave.

No more."
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. You Said All So Well...
And if the American people don't sit up and take a good look around, if they don't put 2 and 2 together than this ISN'T the America I grew up in.

I'm a Boomer who was very young during Viet Nam and NEVER in my life have I seen such lack of empathy and care from an Administration. They're still out there trying to "spin" this in their favor!

They are nothing but RICH THUGS and a DISGRACE to America!!

WAKE UP & SMELL The DEATH & DESTRUCTION!!!!

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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:06 AM
Response to Original message
3. Effective has nine letters, big has three
j/k but we have to assume a large segment of of the population doesn't truly understand effectiveness.

"Getting the job done", "Asleep at the wheel" etc are terms that Red America understands.

btw welcome to DU

:bounce: :toast: :bounce:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The Left does tend to use dollar language when 25 cents will do.
Your phrasing is perfect.

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WindChill Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. Thanks
Been here a while but I usually just read.

You're probably right about "effective" being too difficult to understand in general. So, yeah, "good" vs. "bad" government works even better. You can certainly see "good" government in things like Clinton's 100,000 more police and "bad" government in the Katrina response. Or a budget surplus vs. an enormous deficit.

I don't know, but it just seems like if the Democrats put their arguments in this kind of context they'd do much better.
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hippiechick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:08 AM
Response to Original message
4. The GOP has made this Gov't HUGE
... and HUGELY ineffective. They re-directed tons of money into Homeland Security under the guise of 'first responders' (cough) and keeping us domestically safe, but as we have seen in the last week especially - there are NO first responders, we are NOT domestically safe, and oh, by the way -- basic infrastructures have been compromised ...

... so what Joe and Jane Sixpack need to ask is: where did all that money go, and why do we now have a BIGGER Federal Gov't under a GOP administration than we EVER did under any Democratic President ?
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. What is never factored into the government's size is
the fact that billions of dollars of services which used to be provided by govt agencies (Army Corps of Engineers, Natl Guard) are now farmed out to independent contractors (Halliburton, Blackwater).

If we measure the government's size as how much money it spends--about $400B more than it takes in each year--this administration has the largest bureaucracy in history.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent thinking. Big or small, we don't want our government to
fail us like it clearly has this time.

Welcome to DU. :toast:
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pippin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-04-05 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
10. More republicans should turn against the criminals
Every decent republican should be feelingt betrayed by this bunch of criminals. Voting for a candidate implies a trust that those you elect will fulfill their promises to you. Bush and and his cronies have violated every republicans' trust and if they still don't realize this they are more stupid than can be believed.
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