Clark: "When we kill people, we make enemies"

[Clarkie1]

Reflecting on 9/11 and America’s Global Engagement Problem

Conference: Terrorism, Security & America's Purpose: Towards a More Comprehensive Strategy (September 6, 2005)

Remarks by General Wesley Clark: Former Supreme Allied Commander, NATO and former candidate for President of the United States

Link to full transcript (very lengthy) and video:
http://www.securingamerica.com/

<snippet>

"So I would like to offer 5 Common Sense Avenues to move down in changing the course.

Number 1. We need to correct the over-reliance that we have placed, the over-dependence on our own Armed Forces.

We are not going to win the War on Terror just by killing people abroad, even if they are terrorists. It's not enough. Look there is no genetic marker that pre-disposes someone to become a terrorist. It's not like we can single out, if we could just kill, it's not World War II where there were certain number of enemy formations, or factories to produce aircraft and once you eliminated these you could be pretty sure that the situation would appear different to the enemy leadership. This is not that kind of a conflict.

When we kill people, we make enemies! And when we kill the wrong people, it's even worse and less defensible.

So yes, military force is part of the solution. It is not the answer and we've got to move away from the over-reliance, the easy reliance, on the symbols of security being the men and women in uniform and their deployment.

And I want to say it very clearly as one who love's our men and women in uniform who's spent my life in it. This is not like World War II.

And this struggle against terrorism is not like the invasion of Iwo Jima.

And people around the world do not look at our Armed Forces the way we look at John Wayne. It's that simple."

[Clark2008]

1. And Clark is our best hope for winning 2008.

He's strong, he's passionate, he speaks out, he calls out the phonies.

Be still my Southern heart :loveya:

[Skwmom]

7. I think he's more than that. He's the best shot we have of

turning this country around. He is a leader who has the unique ability to rally those from different backgrounds and political affiliations.

[RandomUser]

32. His breadth of support was very broad

On the left he got support and endorsements from Michael Moore, George McGovern, human rights activists like Samantha Powers, civil rights activists and even the founder of Earth Day -- based on his policies, past actions (like the affirmative action amicus brief), and stances. On the right, he got support from southern and conservative Democrats and moderate Republicans based on his uniform and title General. I don't think any other candidate had that broad an appeal and the ability to unite warring factions.

[Mythsaje]

2. And this is a GODDAM General!

It's just what I've been saying for years.

but getting through to these louts is like :banghead:

[Clark2008]

10. What louts are those, mythsaje?

The louts on the far left who won't vote for anyone who wore a uniform or the louts on the far right who won't vote for anyone with a "D" after their name?

And, I often feel like banging my head when speaking to folks who know nothing of red states and pretend they do. ;)

[Mythsaje]

13. I liked him from the primaries, and would've voted for him...

A straight-up, no-nonsense kind of guy. I can respect that.

[shireen]

15. IT'S TIME WE HAD A REAL COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF!!! n/t

[Mass]

3. I heard him Tuesday - Excellent speech, as always. \nt

[jaysunb]

4. Bingo !

This is what the American people need to hear. I really belive they would agree if given an alternative to what we have now.

Hey Congress !! Call the General to testify.

[niceypoo]

5. America is now the scum of the earth

and, sadly, I am an american. Thanks a lot repukes.

[gratuitous]

6. Uh oh, speaking against our national religion

And no, I'm not talking about fundy delusionalism, but our country's near mythic belief in the efficacy of redemptive violence. There are powerful wealthy forces that will have to nip this sort of talk in the bud, but Clark speaks the truth.

[Sparkly]

8. I love the John Wayne reference.

Spot ON. Chickenhawks, I truly believe, think of our military as THEIR strength, because they have no real strength. And BushCo apologists say things like, "Bush had the GUTS to go IN there" -- Bush had no guts, he didn't go anywhere!! They use the military as alter-egos. They DO think it makes them John Waynes, and will solve every problem.

I sure love the General.

[Clark2008]

11. The John Wayne reference does more than that.

It focuses one's mind on exactly what the myth vs. reality of military might is by placing it into a pop culture reference that most can easily call up.

It's K.I.S.S. at its most eloquent.

[Field Of Dreams]

9. Always proud to support you General Clark! n/t

[Lecky]

12. Isn't it sad that there are people in this country who do not

understand those very basic concepts. Hell, we have people in power right now that do not understand these principles.

Or worse, they do understand but don't give a shit. (neocons)

Recommended...

I'm hoping and praying that Clark is our candidate in 08'...everything he says makes sense.

[TwilightZone]

14. A general discussing over-dependence on the military.

Amazing. He certainly doesn't fear speaking the truth.

I would have given anything to see him debate Bush in '04.

[LandOLincoln]

16. Debate? What debate? Wes would've chewed up

and spat out that fat little chickenhawk, then picked his teeth with the bones.

[TwilightZone]

18. Agreed.

Bush's fake military bravado would have died a quick death.

[welshTerrier2]

17. yep ... when we steal their oil and assassinate their leaders too ...

interesting comment Clark made about the US "killing the wrong people" ... i wonder whether he was referring to "mistakes" that occur when the "enemy" does not fight using "structured formations" or was he referring to something more sinister ...

Clark is dead on to call for a decreased dependency on the use of the US military ... but that decrease should not only imply an increased use of diplomacy and "economic leverage" ... much of the decrease should come from simply avoiding unjust "corporate wars" in the first place ...

as for "terrorism", the best way to win the struggle against terrorism is to examine and understand the reason we are attacked by terrorists and ensure that our own country's conduct did not contribute to it ... by assassinating leaders like Mossadeq, installing US puppets like the Shah, sending weapons to tyrants like Saddam and occupying countries all over the world primarily to exploit their oil, it's hardly surprising that we find ourselves a wee bit unpopular ...

the best technique to "win" the war on terrorism is to regain control of our government from those who seek nothing more than to line their own pockets with oil revenues ... when our foreign policy is just, we will no longer be the target of terrorism ...

[LandOLincoln]

20. You think? Wow. I would never have thought of that on my own.

Love ya, WT2, at least most of the time, but you do tend sometimes to state the obvious. You know? :evilgrin:

[welshTerrier2]

25. well then ...

if it's so obvious, why aren't any of our Democratic "leaders" talking about it ...

either they don't agree with what you see as obvious or they're afraid to tell the American people the truth ...

which do you think it is?

[Texas_Kat]

30. W2T

A serious question that deserves serious consideration...

I don't think it's either just A or B (of your choices above).

I think there is a certain cadre of Democratic "leaders" who have as much vested interest in maintaining the status quo as the Republicans do. It keeps them in positions of power and they only have to appear to care what we think during election year.

There is another contingent that is afraid that the American people will catch on that what they really believe in is their own political future. They don't speak out because it might cost them a primary.... or an interview on a Sunday morning talk show.

They are worse than cowards, they are opportunists..... and have no compunction about playing the electorate for fools.

[texpatriot2004]

19. Thank you Wes Clark for your sanity and humanity. n/t

[1932]

21. Killing isn't the only thing that makes enemies. Ripping people off

makes them angry too. The US hasn't don't much of anything around the world since 1952 which has made us friends. OK, we've made a lot of friends who are rich and powerful, but we've been the enemy of the common man.

I said this in another post:

In early 1941, Henry Luce's Life Magazine published an article titled "The American Century." In it, Luce set forth his vision: the US would dominate the postwar world, leading others toward a better age of freedom, justice and prosperity. A year later he published an article titled "America's War and America's Peace" in which he declared, "Because America alone among nations of the earth was founded on ideas and ideals which transcend class and caste and racial and occupational diffrences, America alone can provide the pattern for the future."

People believed Luce was sincere. Rather than a power-hungry press magnate, he was seen as a devout missionary's son whose views were influneced by watching the decay of the Chinese empire. However, Democrats at the time criticized this vision as Kiplingesque imperialism. FDR's VP Henry Wallace was so rankled by Luce's vision he said to a cheering crowd, "Some have spoken of the American Century. I say the century into which we are entering -- the century that will come out of this war -- can and must be the century of the common man."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4706468

We've used our military in Vietnam, Grenada, Panama, Afghanistan and Iraq since then. But we've thrown our weight around, as Luce envisioned, everywhere else in order to make a few Americans and foreign families superwealthy. We weren't making enemies only when we used our military. As Wallace said, we MUST embark on the century of the common man. We haven't yet. It's time.

By the way, where are those Democratic audiences who cheer criticisms of empire? Where are the Democrats who criticize empire?

[chieftain]

22. Amen! Amen! Amen! I was for Clark in '04 because I thought

security was going to be the determinant for the election and he was the one guy who could give as good as he got on that type of issue. We need to focus on '06 as the way to win in '08. Clark is a force to be reckoned with. Thanks for posting this.

[Mr Rabble]

23. I will do whatever I can to help Wes get elected.

[CarolNYC]

24. This was a great speech...

Good job by Steve Clemons in helping put this conference together and in getting Clark to participate....

Thansk for posting this.

[eridani]

26. A very sensible stance on the use of our military--

Now, can someone get him to speak out against the neoliberal economic assault of the elite against the rest of the world?

[Texas_Kat]

31. Clark is beginning a daily dialogue

http://www.securingamerica.com

More detail at:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2079568

His intention is to open a dialogue where every Democrat is welcome. You don't necessarily have to agree with him (but Clark regulars hope you'll keep it civil).

Clark started this concept long ago at his Leadership for America site (circa 2001) long before we drafted him to run in 04. It was one of the reasons we drafted him. He is truly interested in hearing from everyone, even those who hold opinions that disagree with him.

I don't yet know if he intends to answer questions (I guess it depends on how much time he has), but I do know that he reads everything.....

[NVMojo]

27. We need more Clarks!

[JNelson6563]

28. Why can't others see this?

Last Christmas when I spoke to my brother in law, supposedly a liberal and smart guy (both of which I now know to be false) he seemed puzzled as to how to get people to not hate us so much. I was stunned. I suggested may be "if we quit bombing them" and he seemed to think that might be a way. Special kind of stupid. We are surrounded by it with not nearly enough voices of reason. Ugh.

As least Clark is contributing to the voices who do see it and say it out loud. The more who do so the better!

Julie

[Joe Chi Minh]

29. "Clark: "When we kill people,

we make enemies".

That is so simple and to the point, it amounts to genius. And, incidentally, despite the horrendous subject matter, sounds absolutely hilarious to read for the first time.

[imperial jedi]

33. Clark is awesome!!

I would have gladly voted for him.I definitely feel he's our best bet for 08.

[Donna Zen]

34. Welcome to DU imperial jedi!

I agree with obviously, and while I like his succinct comments like this one, what I appreciate even more is his total world view. WT2 has an interesting thread up about the economic/military threat being posed by the Chinese because of Iraq, the worst geo-political blunder that this country has ever made. Clark has been talking about this since I first heard him speak.

Foreign policy will effect our domestic policy for as far as we can see in the future. Ah...to have a world leader again. One that actually puts this country first, before their pet corporations.

[sendero]

35. Wes Clark..

.... is amazing. He has a talent for explaining complex issues simply. In a party that, IMHO, is suffering from a pronounced leadership vacuum, he is a leader.

[OneGrassRoot]

36. Yes, we need more Clarks..........

I've always felt only those who have SERVED in the military should be able to be Commander-In-Chief. They are much less likely to use our military frivolously. They have a clue, unlike these criminals.