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How to argue ‘morals’ with a RW’er

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PeacePal Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 12:08 AM
Original message
How to argue ‘morals’ with a RW’er
The Katrina aftermath is showering us with chances for social commentary around the water cooler and in the grocery line. For what it’s worth, here’s one approach to scoring points. Not the noblest approach, I admit, but a practical one.

Sadly, some front-pew conservatives believe charity begins at home and may as well end there too. So here’s our tactic: Sidestep any and all 'we' and 'others' language. Pointing out a moral obligation to the poor, the ill, and the elderly misses the mark. We find ourselves listening to diatribes about personal responsibility, entitlement programs, sanctity of family, and other RW talk-machine blather.

‘We’ and ‘others’ are ‘us’, and we must be clear about that. Government that guarantees tolerance, compassion, justice, and protection benefits everyone’s immediate family and local neighborhood. You and I may believe in these principles because they form true community, but the benefits extend to everyone, even those motivated by self-interest. So talk, loudly, about ourselves, in the first person.

I, for instance, talk about my mentally ill sister, my neighbors working to exhaustion, and my grandfather in a nursing home. WE are the ones who are helped by progressive social policy, I point out.

I look for common ground: no matter how well-heeled my debater, I can usually find a note that resonates. Almost everyone has a physically disabled family member, a friend whose parent has Alzheimer’s, or a co-worker waiting with crossed fingers for the insurance eligibility period to pass.

I paint pictures, I elaborate - what happens to these people in a Hurricane Katrina? Or in the middle of any given night, for that matter? What if you, I ask, can't make to it their side, what if they are separated from family? What if your neighbor or friend is suddenly without siblings or finds themselves orphaned? And so on.

Implying that a RW colleague could ever need a community resource affronts misplaced pride and illusions of self-sufficiency. On the other hand, when we appeal to a moral duty to others, we trigger a scarcity mentality in the less enlightened. The fear is that if others gain, I may lose.

So I suggest we bypass the argument. We talk about how WE are there for US. We must be there for your family, for my family. If not in this flood, then in the next; if not in this moment, then in the one you fear.

After firmly planting my argument in a foundation of self-interest, I lay on a platitude or two about ‘the least among us’. It’s always nice to feel sanctimonious before donuts, whether they’re served after prayer service or in the lunch room.

I realize this is a facile and self-serving argument. I realize it’s already been done by the Right; after all, fear and self-interest ARE motivators. I realize it won’t raise anyone’s consciousness. But sometimes good actually is served by good ends, isn’t it? And lots of folks have internalized expectations of accessible health care without ever giving a thought to the coalminers who died earning it. A rising economic tide may have failed to lift all boats, but improved public education never hurt anyone.

So I offer food for thought, or for flaming, and two final remarks:

A positive aspect of BushCo's reign is that more Righties every day, whether they’ll admit it or not, feel gnawing uneasiness about sinking into the mire, so this tactic gets easier all the time.

A near-death experience or forced encampment in an inner city without police protection would be my preferred conversion methods for RWers, but both are illegal.

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 12:14 AM
Response to Original message
1. Welcome to DU, backtotheuniverse! Interesting thoughts there...
Edited on Tue Sep-13-05 12:19 AM by Wordie
Its a good strategy - to bypass the "us" and "them" - but harder to apply in real-world situations, I imagine. Unfortunately, the "us" and "them" thing is pretty well-ingrained in most of us. But its sure worth a try!
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The Traveler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 12:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. I have a lot of fun
ramming the Bible up their tight asses. For their practices are completely antithetical to the teachings of Christ, and hence anti-Christian.
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nostalgicaboutmyfutr Donating Member (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 12:21 AM
Response to Original message
3. it is not about morals....
it is about competence.
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PeacePal Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 12:29 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Right you are!
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I_Make_Mistakes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. We are taught not to wear our religion on our sleeves. The religious
left does not want to judge, lest we be judged. The RW has played it's hand and is faltering, let us not fall into the same trap.

When a RW nutbag quotes (their hateful Bible quotes, I say, Satan also quoted the Bible teachings). It leaves them dumbfounded and at least, I hope questioning!
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 01:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. Interesting ideas...but I don't even bother wasting my time
arguing with those wanna-be aristocrats. F* 'em. From my perspective, they are the front line pawn/tools of the elite in a class war that Reagan escalated to dramatic proportions not seen since before FDR.
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PeacePal Donating Member (89 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Absolutely, but removing the pawns exposes the Court - even to the pawns!
Edited on Tue Sep-13-05 08:42 AM by backtotheuniverse
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Union Thug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. That may be true....
But frankly, I don't have the patience to deal with these people anymore. I just mark them off as enemies and call it good. More power to you, though!
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SeekerofTruth Donating Member (145 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-13-05 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
8. Sadly, I feel there aren't enough Democrats like you
Many would rather just say f* em. That is exactly what the other side says about us, so we become just like they are.

We are supposed to be more intelligent, it's nice when we start acting like it.

Some of the things I say to the RW include:
In the Bible, religious people walk by a helpless man along side the road, while an atheist stops and helps the person. Jesus states it's the atheist who has a place in heaven. How do you stop and help the people alongside the road?

The Bill of Rights is supposed to protect us from the government. (RW talking point, they are afraid of big government). But where does it start and end? Do we need police? fire departments? roads? what about taking care of the mentally handicapped? what about injured people who have no family?

I like your style and approach, take the time and do the intelligent thing. Teach them. If we turn our backs and say f* em, we are no different than they are.
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